Politics 2017

[Gfted1]

The biggest dispute would be the use of the Colorado River. Now Colorado could turn the spigot off, which would hurt SoCal, but then we go back to the fruits and veggies that the rest of the country loves so much. Cut off your nose to spite your face, I suppose.

That's a bit of an understatement.

 

Assuming this link is accurate: Colorado River Water Users Association

 

 

 

The Colorado River is a vital link in sustaining the economy of Southern California -- water for irrigation, water for cities and hydroelectric power for both. Today it supplies about 65 percent -- and by the turn of the century, still as much as 55 percent -- of the total water used south of the Tehachapi Mountains, from the Pacific Ocean to the river.

 

[Darkpriest]

Meh give me a burger over some overrated fancy fruit dish

[Elerond]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-us-airports-prompting-legal-challenges-to-trumps-immigration-order.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share&_r=0

 

President Trump’s executive order closing the nation’s borders to refugees was put into immediate effect on Friday night. Refugees who were airborne on flights on the way to the United States when the order was signed were stopped and detained at airports.

The detentions prompted legal challenges as lawyers representing two Iraqis held at Kennedy Airport filed a writ of habeas corpus early Saturday in the Eastern District of New York seeking to have their clients released. At the same time, they filed a motion for class certification, in an effort to represent all refugees and immigrants who they said were being unlawfully detained at ports of entry.

...

The lawyers said that one of the Iraqis detained at Kennedy Airport, Hameed Khalid Darweesh, had worked on behalf of the United States government in Iraq for 10 years. The other, Haider Sameer Abdulkhaleq Alshawi, was coming to the United States to join his wife, who had worked for an American contractor, and young son, the lawyers said. They said both men had been detained at the airport on Friday night after arriving on separate flights.

The lawyers said they had not been allowed to meet with their clients, and there were tense moments as they tried to reach them.

“Who is the person we need to talk to?” asked one of the lawyers, Mark Doss, a supervising attorney at the International Refugee Assistance Project.

“Mr. President,” said a Customs and Border Protection agent, who declined to identify himself. “Call Mr. Trump.”

[Hurlshort]

 

That's a bit of an understatement.

 

Assuming this link is accurate: Colorado River Water Users Association

 

 

 

The Colorado River is a vital link in sustaining the economy of Southern California -- water for irrigation, water for cities and hydroelectric power for both. Today it supplies about 65 percent -- and by the turn of the century, still as much as 55 percent -- of the total water used south of the Tehachapi Mountains, from the Pacific Ocean to the river.

 

 

 

Yes but:

 

1. The Colorado River runs through California. 

2. South of the Tehachapi is a pretty small part of the state as a whole. 

 

Right now a bunch of states share water rights along the river. It is unlikely they would abandon that relationship for any reason. Unless you think California will suddenly become an enemy state or something.

[Hurlshort]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-us-airports-prompting-legal-challenges-to-trumps-immigration-order.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share&_r=0

 

 

Jesus. Land of the free?

[BruceVC]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-us-airports-prompting-legal-challenges-to-trumps-immigration-order.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share&_r=0

 

President Trump’s executive order closing the nation’s borders to refugees was put into immediate effect on Friday night. Refugees who were airborne on flights on the way to the United States when the order was signed were stopped and detained at airports.

The detentions prompted legal challenges as lawyers representing two Iraqis held at Kennedy Airport filed a writ of habeas corpus early Saturday in the Eastern District of New York seeking to have their clients released. At the same time, they filed a motion for class certification, in an effort to represent all refugees and immigrants who they said were being unlawfully detained at ports of entry.

...

The lawyers said that one of the Iraqis detained at Kennedy Airport, Hameed Khalid Darweesh, had worked on behalf of the United States government in Iraq for 10 years. The other, Haider Sameer Abdulkhaleq Alshawi, was coming to the United States to join his wife, who had worked for an American contractor, and young son, the lawyers said. They said both men had been detained at the airport on Friday night after arriving on separate flights.

The lawyers said they had not been allowed to meet with their clients, and there were tense moments as they tried to reach them.

“Who is the person we need to talk to?” asked one of the lawyers, Mark Doss, a supervising attorney at the International Refugee Assistance Project.

“Mr. President,” said a Customs and Border Protection agent, who declined to identify himself. “Call Mr. Trump.”

Elerond I watched an interview with  someone from the Trump camp about this and what he said actually made sense

 

Trump is prohibiting Muslims coming from countries that cannot guarantee or vet the people who get on planes, these countries include Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen and Sudan 

 

All these countries are either war zones, enemies of the USA or hotbeds of Islamic extremism....do you blame Trump for blocking them? I would think this is appropriate considering the fact the USA is a target of terrorist attacks ?

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/27/politics/trump-plans-to-sign-executive-action-on-refugees-extreme-vetting/

Edited January 28, 2017 by BruceVC

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

 

It's just such a weird sentiment to WANT California to leave. I mean, as you type it on your computer, or maybe on your fancy smart phone. Or as you enjoy your fruits and vegetables. Or as you watch your entertainment. Sure, California is the source of all the US's problems.  Right-o.  

From my point of view, it's the source of all of US's political problems, or most of them anyway. It was fine when it was Republican, or even a swing state, but now it's an evil, lawless Democrat empire.

 

  WOD you cant use such hyperbole.......you must be using certain just to tease the guys who live in California

 

For example how is California evil or lawless ? Neither of those words can be used to reasonably describe any state in the USA 

 

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2015/07/09/7-ways-jerry-brown-and-california-democrats-embraced-illegal-aliens/

 

Also in the last Senate election in California, there wasn't even a Republican running. Both candidates were Democrats. And Dems are the evil party.

 

Edit: Also this: http://victorhanson.com/wordpress/california-at-twilight/

 

Admittedly he can be a little apocalyptic.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[Volourn]

" Unless you think California will suddenly become an enemy state or something. "

 

Suddenly? It already is.

[Gfted1]

Unless you think California will suddenly become an enemy state or something.

Well no, I don't think California seceding from the Union would go down all friendly.

[Wrath of Dagon]

It would if the law was passed allowing it, hence my idea of a national referendum.

[Gfted1]

It would if the law was passed allowing it, hence my idea of a national referendum.

I'm sure there is plenty of legalese that could get them out of the Union. But that doesn't mean the new trade and water agreements between the new country of California and the rest of the US would be amicable.

[Malcador]

You know, we haven't even covered the whole torture stuff that the President keeps talking about. Yikes.

Yeah, coworker was telling me he believes torture does work if you choose the right guy. Given his source was **** Cheney, I was dubious.

 

Someone should volunteer Trump to be waterrboarded to see what it's like

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

It would if the law was passed allowing it, hence my idea of a national referendum.

I'm sure there is plenty of legalese that could get them out of the Union. But that doesn't mean the new trade and water agreements between the new country of California and the rest of the US would be amicable.

 

They would be, otherwise both would only be hurting themselves. Same with Britain and the EU.

 

Edit: This shows Republican power in the Senate is pretty tenuous: http://hotair.com/archives/2017/01/27/cbs-senate-republicans-convinced-trump-that-pryor-is-a-no-go-for-scotus/

 

Too many weak sisters.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[Elerond]

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-us-airports-prompting-legal-challenges-to-trumps-immigration-order.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share&_r=0

 

President Trump’s executive order closing the nation’s borders to refugees was put into immediate effect on Friday night. Refugees who were airborne on flights on the way to the United States when the order was signed were stopped and detained at airports.

The detentions prompted legal challenges as lawyers representing two Iraqis held at Kennedy Airport filed a writ of habeas corpus early Saturday in the Eastern District of New York seeking to have their clients released. At the same time, they filed a motion for class certification, in an effort to represent all refugees and immigrants who they said were being unlawfully detained at ports of entry.

...

The lawyers said that one of the Iraqis detained at Kennedy Airport, Hameed Khalid Darweesh, had worked on behalf of the United States government in Iraq for 10 years. The other, Haider Sameer Abdulkhaleq Alshawi, was coming to the United States to join his wife, who had worked for an American contractor, and young son, the lawyers said. They said both men had been detained at the airport on Friday night after arriving on separate flights.

The lawyers said they had not been allowed to meet with their clients, and there were tense moments as they tried to reach them.

“Who is the person we need to talk to?” asked one of the lawyers, Mark Doss, a supervising attorney at the International Refugee Assistance Project.

“Mr. President,” said a Customs and Border Protection agent, who declined to identify himself. “Call Mr. Trump.”

Elerond I watched an interview with  someone from the Trump camp about this and what he said actually made sense

 

Trump is prohibiting Muslims coming from countries that cannot guarantee or vet the people who get on planes, these countries include Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen and Sudan 

 

All these countries are either war zones, enemies of the USA or hotbeds of Islamic extremism....do you blame Trump for blocking them? I would think this is appropriate considering the fact the USA is a target of terrorist attacks ?

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/27/politics/trump-plans-to-sign-executive-action-on-refugees-extreme-vetting/

 

 

Yes I blame him. USA don't take non-vetted refugees, so everybody now denied are people that US officials though to be safe to take in, many such that have helped them in past.

 

Also USA actions in past are big part why Iraq, Libya and Syria have become hotbeds of Islamic extremist and why people are fleeing from them now. Of course stopping and killing Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi and opposing Bashar al-Assad can be justified and even seen as necessary actions, but they were also actions the destabilized those countries and drive them in uncontrollable civil wars and give room for extremist to get foot hold in them. 

 

Also where you think refugees mainly come if not from war zones? Also Iraq's current government is ally of USA.

[Hurlshort]

 

Unless you think California will suddenly become an enemy state or something.

Well no, I don't think California seceding from the Union would go down all friendly.

 

 

Well if that were the case, then water rights would be the least of California's worries, given the complete lack of a military.

[algroth]

http://onlineathens.com/opinion/2017-01-27/polman-time-consider-25th-amendment-trump

[BruceVC]

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-us-airports-prompting-legal-challenges-to-trumps-immigration-order.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share&_r=0

 

President Trump’s executive order closing the nation’s borders to refugees was put into immediate effect on Friday night. Refugees who were airborne on flights on the way to the United States when the order was signed were stopped and detained at airports.

The detentions prompted legal challenges as lawyers representing two Iraqis held at Kennedy Airport filed a writ of habeas corpus early Saturday in the Eastern District of New York seeking to have their clients released. At the same time, they filed a motion for class certification, in an effort to represent all refugees and immigrants who they said were being unlawfully detained at ports of entry.

...

The lawyers said that one of the Iraqis detained at Kennedy Airport, Hameed Khalid Darweesh, had worked on behalf of the United States government in Iraq for 10 years. The other, Haider Sameer Abdulkhaleq Alshawi, was coming to the United States to join his wife, who had worked for an American contractor, and young son, the lawyers said. They said both men had been detained at the airport on Friday night after arriving on separate flights.

The lawyers said they had not been allowed to meet with their clients, and there were tense moments as they tried to reach them.

“Who is the person we need to talk to?” asked one of the lawyers, Mark Doss, a supervising attorney at the International Refugee Assistance Project.

“Mr. President,” said a Customs and Border Protection agent, who declined to identify himself. “Call Mr. Trump.”

Elerond I watched an interview with  someone from the Trump camp about this and what he said actually made sense

 

Trump is prohibiting Muslims coming from countries that cannot guarantee or vet the people who get on planes, these countries include Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen and Sudan 

 

All these countries are either war zones, enemies of the USA or hotbeds of Islamic extremism....do you blame Trump for blocking them? I would think this is appropriate considering the fact the USA is a target of terrorist attacks ?

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/27/politics/trump-plans-to-sign-executive-action-on-refugees-extreme-vetting/

 

 

Yes I blame him. USA don't take non-vetted refugees, so everybody now denied are people that US officials though to be safe to take in, many such that have helped them in past.

 

Also USA actions in past are big part why Iraq, Libya and Syria have become hotbeds of Islamic extremist and why people are fleeing from them now. Of course stopping and killing Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi and opposing Bashar al-Assad can be justified and even seen as necessary actions, but they were also actions the destabilized those countries and drive them in uncontrollable civil wars and give room for extremist to get foot hold in them. 

 

Also where you think refugees mainly come if not from war zones? Also Iraq's current government is ally of USA.

 

This is one of the few topics you and I dont agree on, since we have had this debate before all I ask is you consider what I am going to say below 

 

Even though I dont agree lets say you right about Iraq and thats all the USA  fault

 

The initial civil wars in both Libya and Syria were caused by the Arab Spring, everything else came after that and both Gaddafi and Assad had options to share resources and agree to what the protestors were asking for 

 

Both of them refused to make any concessions and civil wars started. How is that the fault of the USA?

[Wrath of Dagon]

https://twitter.com/kausmickey/status/825158430432178176?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

Edit: http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/01/27/mexico-trump-pena-nieto-agree-not-publicly-discuss-wall-payment/

 

Smart move, this was humiliating to Mexico.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[algroth]

Iranian filmmaker and 2017 Oscar nominee Asghar Farhadi may not be able to attend the ceremony over Muslim ban.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/asghar-farhadi-donald-trump-oscars-9709430

Edited January 28, 2017 by algroth

[Elerond]

 

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-us-airports-prompting-legal-challenges-to-trumps-immigration-order.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share&_r=0

 

President Trump’s executive order closing the nation’s borders to refugees was put into immediate effect on Friday night. Refugees who were airborne on flights on the way to the United States when the order was signed were stopped and detained at airports.

The detentions prompted legal challenges as lawyers representing two Iraqis held at Kennedy Airport filed a writ of habeas corpus early Saturday in the Eastern District of New York seeking to have their clients released. At the same time, they filed a motion for class certification, in an effort to represent all refugees and immigrants who they said were being unlawfully detained at ports of entry.

...

The lawyers said that one of the Iraqis detained at Kennedy Airport, Hameed Khalid Darweesh, had worked on behalf of the United States government in Iraq for 10 years. The other, Haider Sameer Abdulkhaleq Alshawi, was coming to the United States to join his wife, who had worked for an American contractor, and young son, the lawyers said. They said both men had been detained at the airport on Friday night after arriving on separate flights.

The lawyers said they had not been allowed to meet with their clients, and there were tense moments as they tried to reach them.

“Who is the person we need to talk to?” asked one of the lawyers, Mark Doss, a supervising attorney at the International Refugee Assistance Project.

“Mr. President,” said a Customs and Border Protection agent, who declined to identify himself. “Call Mr. Trump.”

Elerond I watched an interview with  someone from the Trump camp about this and what he said actually made sense

 

Trump is prohibiting Muslims coming from countries that cannot guarantee or vet the people who get on planes, these countries include Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen and Sudan 

 

All these countries are either war zones, enemies of the USA or hotbeds of Islamic extremism....do you blame Trump for blocking them? I would think this is appropriate considering the fact the USA is a target of terrorist attacks ?

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/27/politics/trump-plans-to-sign-executive-action-on-refugees-extreme-vetting/

 

 

Yes I blame him. USA don't take non-vetted refugees, so everybody now denied are people that US officials though to be safe to take in, many such that have helped them in past.

 

Also USA actions in past are big part why Iraq, Libya and Syria have become hotbeds of Islamic extremist and why people are fleeing from them now. Of course stopping and killing Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi and opposing Bashar al-Assad can be justified and even seen as necessary actions, but they were also actions the destabilized those countries and drive them in uncontrollable civil wars and give room for extremist to get foot hold in them. 

 

Also where you think refugees mainly come if not from war zones? Also Iraq's current government is ally of USA.

 

This is one of the few topics you and I dont agree on, since we have had this debate before all I ask is you consider what I am going to say below 

 

Even though I dont agree lets say you right about Iraq and thats all the USA  fault

 

The initial civil wars in both Libya and Syria were caused by the Arab Spring, everything else came after that and both Gaddafi and Assad had options to share resources and agree to what the protestors were asking for 

 

Both of them refused to make any concessions and civil wars started. How is that the fault of the USA?

 

 

In Libya USA gave weapons to those who opposed Gaddafi and during rebellion they gave air support for rebel forces. Meaning that USA take active part in dethroning Gaddafi and Clinton was quite gleeful when their efforts ended successfully.

 

In Syria USA has given military schooling and weapons to rebels that oppose Assad and some of those weapons even ended in hands of ISIS terrorists. Meaning that USA had active part in Syria's civil war. 

[Gfted1]

https://twitter.com/kausmickey/status/825158430432178176?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Huh, last time I was in Tijuana it was kinda a party town. Now its a shanty.

[Malcador]

https://twitter.com/kausmickey/status/825158430432178176?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

Edit: http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/01/27/mexico-trump-pena-nieto-agree-not-publicly-discuss-wall-payment/

 

Smart move, this was humiliating to Mexico.

Is that an about face though? Will need a translation from the original Spanish as well, heh.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-us-airports-prompting-legal-challenges-to-trumps-immigration-order.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share&_r=0

 

President Trump’s executive order closing the nation’s borders to refugees was put into immediate effect on Friday night. Refugees who were airborne on flights on the way to the United States when the order was signed were stopped and detained at airports.

The detentions prompted legal challenges as lawyers representing two Iraqis held at Kennedy Airport filed a writ of habeas corpus early Saturday in the Eastern District of New York seeking to have their clients released. At the same time, they filed a motion for class certification, in an effort to represent all refugees and immigrants who they said were being unlawfully detained at ports of entry.

...

The lawyers said that one of the Iraqis detained at Kennedy Airport, Hameed Khalid Darweesh, had worked on behalf of the United States government in Iraq for 10 years. The other, Haider Sameer Abdulkhaleq Alshawi, was coming to the United States to join his wife, who had worked for an American contractor, and young son, the lawyers said. They said both men had been detained at the airport on Friday night after arriving on separate flights.

The lawyers said they had not been allowed to meet with their clients, and there were tense moments as they tried to reach them.

“Who is the person we need to talk to?” asked one of the lawyers, Mark Doss, a supervising attorney at the International Refugee Assistance Project.

“Mr. President,” said a Customs and Border Protection agent, who declined to identify himself. “Call Mr. Trump.”

Elerond I watched an interview with  someone from the Trump camp about this and what he said actually made sense

 

Trump is prohibiting Muslims coming from countries that cannot guarantee or vet the people who get on planes, these countries include Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen and Sudan 

 

All these countries are either war zones, enemies of the USA or hotbeds of Islamic extremism....do you blame Trump for blocking them? I would think this is appropriate considering the fact the USA is a target of terrorist attacks ?

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/27/politics/trump-plans-to-sign-executive-action-on-refugees-extreme-vetting/

 

 

Yes I blame him. USA don't take non-vetted refugees, so everybody now denied are people that US officials though to be safe to take in, many such that have helped them in past.

 

Also USA actions in past are big part why Iraq, Libya and Syria have become hotbeds of Islamic extremist and why people are fleeing from them now. Of course stopping and killing Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi and opposing Bashar al-Assad can be justified and even seen as necessary actions, but they were also actions the destabilized those countries and drive them in uncontrollable civil wars and give room for extremist to get foot hold in them. 

 

Also where you think refugees mainly come if not from war zones? Also Iraq's current government is ally of USA.

 

This is one of the few topics you and I dont agree on, since we have had this debate before all I ask is you consider what I am going to say below 

 

Even though I dont agree lets say you right about Iraq and thats all the USA  fault

 

The initial civil wars in both Libya and Syria were caused by the Arab Spring, everything else came after that and both Gaddafi and Assad had options to share resources and agree to what the protestors were asking for 

 

Both of them refused to make any concessions and civil wars started. How is that the fault of the USA?

 

 

In Libya USA gave weapons to those who opposed Gaddafi and during rebellion they gave air support for rebel forces. Meaning that USA take active part in dethroning Gaddafi and Clinton was quite gleeful when their efforts ended successfully.

 

In Syria USA has given military schooling and weapons to rebels that oppose Assad and some of those weapons even ended in hands of ISIS terrorists. Meaning that USA had active part in Syria's civil war. 

 

So just to be clear, you are going to ignore the reasons why these civil wars started which had nothing to do with the USA but still blame the USA for supplying arms and weapons?

[Elerond]

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-us-airports-prompting-legal-challenges-to-trumps-immigration-order.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share&_r=0

 

President Trump’s executive order closing the nation’s borders to refugees was put into immediate effect on Friday night. Refugees who were airborne on flights on the way to the United States when the order was signed were stopped and detained at airports.

The detentions prompted legal challenges as lawyers representing two Iraqis held at Kennedy Airport filed a writ of habeas corpus early Saturday in the Eastern District of New York seeking to have their clients released. At the same time, they filed a motion for class certification, in an effort to represent all refugees and immigrants who they said were being unlawfully detained at ports of entry.

...

The lawyers said that one of the Iraqis detained at Kennedy Airport, Hameed Khalid Darweesh, had worked on behalf of the United States government in Iraq for 10 years. The other, Haider Sameer Abdulkhaleq Alshawi, was coming to the United States to join his wife, who had worked for an American contractor, and young son, the lawyers said. They said both men had been detained at the airport on Friday night after arriving on separate flights.

The lawyers said they had not been allowed to meet with their clients, and there were tense moments as they tried to reach them.

“Who is the person we need to talk to?” asked one of the lawyers, Mark Doss, a supervising attorney at the International Refugee Assistance Project.

“Mr. President,” said a Customs and Border Protection agent, who declined to identify himself. “Call Mr. Trump.”

Elerond I watched an interview with  someone from the Trump camp about this and what he said actually made sense

 

Trump is prohibiting Muslims coming from countries that cannot guarantee or vet the people who get on planes, these countries include Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen and Sudan 

 

All these countries are either war zones, enemies of the USA or hotbeds of Islamic extremism....do you blame Trump for blocking them? I would think this is appropriate considering the fact the USA is a target of terrorist attacks ?

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/27/politics/trump-plans-to-sign-executive-action-on-refugees-extreme-vetting/

 

 

Yes I blame him. USA don't take non-vetted refugees, so everybody now denied are people that US officials though to be safe to take in, many such that have helped them in past.

 

Also USA actions in past are big part why Iraq, Libya and Syria have become hotbeds of Islamic extremist and why people are fleeing from them now. Of course stopping and killing Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi and opposing Bashar al-Assad can be justified and even seen as necessary actions, but they were also actions the destabilized those countries and drive them in uncontrollable civil wars and give room for extremist to get foot hold in them. 

 

Also where you think refugees mainly come if not from war zones? Also Iraq's current government is ally of USA.

 

This is one of the few topics you and I dont agree on, since we have had this debate before all I ask is you consider what I am going to say below 

 

Even though I dont agree lets say you right about Iraq and thats all the USA  fault

 

The initial civil wars in both Libya and Syria were caused by the Arab Spring, everything else came after that and both Gaddafi and Assad had options to share resources and agree to what the protestors were asking for 

 

Both of them refused to make any concessions and civil wars started. How is that the fault of the USA?

 

 

In Libya USA gave weapons to those who opposed Gaddafi and during rebellion they gave air support for rebel forces. Meaning that USA take active part in dethroning Gaddafi and Clinton was quite gleeful when their efforts ended successfully.

 

In Syria USA has given military schooling and weapons to rebels that oppose Assad and some of those weapons even ended in hands of ISIS terrorists. Meaning that USA had active part in Syria's civil war. 

 

So just to be clear, you are going to ignore the reasons why these civil wars started which had nothing to do with the USA but still blame the USA for supplying arms and weapons?

 

I don't ignore why they started, but when you supply weapons, and give military schooling and air support for one side of civil war, then you can't say that you didn't play part in the consequences of said civil war and new civil wars started by previous ones. 

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

https://twitter.com/kausmickey/status/825158430432178176?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

Edit: http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/01/27/mexico-trump-pena-nieto-agree-not-publicly-discuss-wall-payment/

 

Smart move, this was humiliating to Mexico.

Is that an about face though? Will need a translation from the original Spanish as well, heh.

 

I don't think it's an about face, it's just that continually saying it publicly does nothing but rub salt in the wound. Just quietly take it out of their foreign aid and increase entry fees, or something like that. Don't insist that they have to agree to it, because they never will. Edit: Mexico flaunts our laws and disrespects our sovereignty, but we still have to be the adult in the room. https://www.city-journal.org/html/mexico’s-undiplomatic-diplomats-12891.html

Needless to say, things have only gotten much worse since then under Obama. Nieto called us "the other Mexico".

Edited January 28, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon