The real influence of populism\nationalism in the EU

[Pidesco]

There was a forum Thunderdome in another place and another time. I'm not sure there's anyone left who used to post there.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Psst, bullying is against the forum rules.

 

 

It's not. The forum has one rule against harassment ("personal attacks that are intended to cause unwanted attention, embarrassment, or harm will not be tolerated") which has the clarity of a mud sandwich and is practically unenforceable anyway (how do you tell what a post was intended to do?). Nothing about bullying here

 

 

This is like an 80's high school movie where the three cool cheerleaders are trying to bully the nerd with cringing put downs.

 

The... cool cheerleaders bully the nerd with... D&D metaphors? I think you may have your labels switched there.

Edited December 6, 2016 by aluminiumtrioxid

[213374U]

Psst, bullying is against the forum rules.

Hold up. Are... are you trying to make this into a safe space? Say it ain't so!

 

 

 

The... cool cheerleaders bully the nerd with... D&D metaphors? I think you may have your labels switched there.

Leave your verisimilitude and coherence out of Meshugger's unwritten cult hit scripts, please. (I'd watch it and probably buy a T-shirt too)

[Malcador]

No one stood up for oby! Wait where is he any way.

[ShadySands]

No one stood up for oby! Wait where is he any way.

Westlings can't even into summong oby

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

By the way, some people on this forum were very dedicated to proving me wrong on the issue of Islam and immigration. Now that its successfully tanked half of your governments, what have you to say now?

 

What exactly was it about immigration that some people were very dedicated to proving you wrong about? That it's going to "destroy our culture"? That in a generation there would be less ethnic French in France than second-gen Muslim immigrants? I ask because a lot of nonsense has been said regarding this "issue" and it wasn't so much proving anyone wrong as asking you and others to, um, substantiate your claims, so an actual discussion could be had.

 

I'd also like to know when you say "it" has tanked governments, what exactly is "it"? Immigration? If so, being generous I'd say you're jumping to conclusions, and disregarding other important factors, such as, the huge-ass long-term unemployment in Italy and constant strikes and protests that have been going on in France for a while now, and that have nothing to do with immigration, being instead directed against PM Valls' labor reform pet project. Mind, if you want to play the card that immigration is the chief factor for what has been happening, you are actually pushing the "2016 the year of racism" narrative. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

And well, the limp-**** right has been re-elected for another term over here after some embarrassing kowtowing by the limp-**** left, so I personally don't have much to say. Er... the more things change, the more they stay the same? ...I got nothing.

 

 

 

 

While there is no doubt that the state of the economy was a factor, the EU barometer poll makes it quite clear what was on the public's mind in spring 2016, just before the dominoes started falling.

 

And, frankly, the top two might as well just be combined and called Islam. Because there isn't any other kind of terrorism or immigration topping the news for the past two years. And even if you lump the next three together, which might as well be called "the economy" they still aren't close.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[Hurlshort]

Isn't that just a poll about what people think, though?  I mean, the US would probably have similar numbers of people concerned about terrorism, despite toddlers killing more people than terrorists in the US last year.  Not that we shouldn't concern ourselves over terrorism, but it does seem to be the type of thing that provokes irrational fear rather than reasonable concern.

[213374U]

While there is no doubt that the state of the economy was a factor, the EU barometer poll makes it quite clear what was on the public's mind in spring 2016, just before the dominoes started falling.

 

And, frankly, the top two might as well just be combined and called Islam. Because there isn't any other kind of terrorism or immigration topping the news for the past two years. And even if you lump the next three together, which might as well be called "the economy" they still aren't close.

 

 

Oh, I'll see your "troubles facing the EU", and raise you a "troubles facing your country" and "troubles facing you":

 

 

 

 

 

Well, of course people are going to acknowledge the immigration and terrorism problems of the EU, because it's largely the EU foreign policy that has caused them, and therefore people see it as problems for the EU to fix. I don't know if you were purposefully being deceptive as I know you're trained as a social scientist, or you just fell for the lame Twаtter-style statistical equivocation. Doesn't matter either way; the Eurobarometer poll doesn't support your hypothesis that the biggest problem in people's minds is Islam, and therefore it makes no sense to blame the latest local political debacles on it.

 

By the way, it's bad form to post figures without sources. Here: http://ec.europa.eu/COMMFrontOffice/publicopinion/index.cfm/Survey/getSurveyDetail/instruments/STANDARD/surveyKy/2130

Edited December 7, 2016 by 213374U

[Drowsy Emperor]

I don't see right winning votes on the weight of their economic programme. In fact, none of those parties have offered an economic alternative for the voter to latch onto, other than some extremely vague promises. Statements of the sort: "Bring back manufacturing jobs to the US", "We'll save xyz million euro if we leave the EU" were the least vague things I saw coming from the right.

 

They did however, present a hard stance on immigration.

 

You could always argue it was a punitive vote against, rather than a vote for - but if they're rejecting the economic status quo they sure as hell are rejecting the pro-immigration left positions as well.

 

And bear in mind they managed all this while on the beating end of a severe media frenzy - if the game was played on anything resembling a level playing field, there wouldn't be a single non-right government left in Europe. 

Edited December 7, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[Volourn]

"I don't see right winning votes on the weight of their economic programme. In fact, none of those parties have offered an economic alternative for the voter to latch onto, other than some extremely vague promises. Statements of the sort: "Bring back manufacturing jobs to the US", "We'll save xyz million euro if we leave the EU" were the least vague things I saw coming from the right."

 

Of course YOU don't. Because that would defy your agenda of  'it must be racism' like all SJW Nazis. L0L

[Wrath of Dagon]

Isn't that just a poll about what people think, though?  I mean, the US would probably have similar numbers of people concerned about terrorism, despite toddlers killing more people than terrorists in the US last year.  Not that we shouldn't concern ourselves over terrorism, but it does seem to be the type of thing that provokes irrational fear rather than reasonable concern.

That's right, we can absorb a few terrorist attacks. Kind of hard to do anything about those murderous toddlers though.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Isn't that just a poll about what people think, though?  I mean, the US would probably have similar numbers of people concerned about terrorism, despite toddlers killing more people than terrorists in the US last year.  Not that we shouldn't concern ourselves over terrorism, but it does seem to be the type of thing that provokes irrational fear rather than reasonable concern.

 

Building a trillion dollar wall is easier than getting parents to watch their kids.

[Hurlshort]

 

Isn't that just a poll about what people think, though?  I mean, the US would probably have similar numbers of people concerned about terrorism, despite toddlers killing more people than terrorists in the US last year.  Not that we shouldn't concern ourselves over terrorism, but it does seem to be the type of thing that provokes irrational fear rather than reasonable concern.

That's right, we can absorb a few terrorist attacks. Kind of hard to do anything about those murderous toddlers though.

 

 

Is it though? Keeping guns out of the hands of toddlers seems like a much easier fix than rooting out all forms of extremism that lead to violent terrorist attacks.  

[Wrath of Dagon]

It's easier for your own toddler, not so easy for other people's. Is your argument that we shouldn't root out extremism and just allow terrorist attacks to happen? What you and Obola don't understand is that terrorism is fundamentally different from regular crime and accidents, it's an act of war, and if you don't take all necessary measures to deal with it, it will only get worse and worse. The country woke up after 9/11, but now it seems a lot of people went back to sleep again.

[Hurlshort]

So has there been an attack worse than 9/11 under Obama?  There is no evidence to back up your claim.  

 

Of course we should be concerned about terrorism.  Obama isn't sitting in security briefings tweeting about SNL, I'm pretty sure he took it very seriously.  But the fear-mongering does not match up with any of the facts.  And where do you draw the line at 'all necessary measures'?  Which freedoms are you willing to give up to support that assertion?  

 

Plus if every act of terrorism is an act of war, what is your response to domestic terrorism?    

[Wrath of Dagon]

Which claim? That if you don't deal with terrorism it will get worse? What fear mongering are you talking about? How often do we have 50 people killed in one incident? Why do you assume we have to give up freedoms to combat terrorism? May be some of the migrants coming here have to give up something, but it won't be us. As far as domestic, I still consider them illegal combatants, but there may be legal issues with that interpretation, or perhaps we have to treat them as common criminals to avoid possible future abuses of power by the government.

[Meshugger]

 

This is like an 80's high school movie where the three cool cheerleaders are trying to bully the nerd with cringing put downs.

 

The... cool cheerleaders bully the nerd with... D&D metaphors? I think you may have your labels switched there.

 

I operate in a different level of metaphors than you filthy casuals.

 

- Did that guy just disagree with me? the hottest cheerleader in school? That's like soooo dumb!

- Yeah, lets use something he said another time way back against him now, that will show him!

- Yeah, and if he complains, we just belittle him and tell him to suck it up like a man!

 

- Again? This is getting pretty retarded by now....

 

- Stop it right there you three! Are you girls teaming up on the Texan again?

 

- (****, caught again! think of a quick comeback!) No Mr. principal, we were just joking along, D&D right? tee-hee!

- (****, caught again! Quickly, wash away the guilt!) If you look at the school charters, you can see that this isn't really against the rules!

- Since i am secretly drinking myself to death, i dont' really care and will continue with what i am doing.

 

- You girls don't ever learn do you? Remember that i am on to you, remember...

*continues down the hall*

 

 

- Phew, that principal is such a stuck-up, totally!

- Yeah, but we sure put that dork into his place, didn't we?

- Uh-huuh, dorks should know better than trying to mess with us! :^)

...

..

- Has Katie gotten too drunk to hang around us again? Where is she?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Either way, everything points to dance off in the near future. It's the only way to absolve problems in my metaphors.

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by Meshugger

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I think my total unfamiliarity with '80s high school movies has just saved me from severe SAN loss.

[Meshugger]

...my total unfamiliarity with '80s high school movies...

 

*Updated my alumni.txt*

 

That explains quite a lot actually, thank you.

[Malcador]

It's easier for your own toddler, not so easy for other people's. Is your argument that we shouldn't root out extremism and just allow terrorist attacks to happen? What you and Obola don't understand is that terrorism is fundamentally different from regular crime and accidents, it's an act of war, and if you don't take all necessary measures to deal with it, it will only get worse and worse. The country woke up after 9/11, but now it seems a lot of people went back to sleep again.

The fun part comes when some guys try to define what "necessary measures" is.

[213374U]

I think my total unfamiliarity with '80s high school movies has just saved me from severe SAN loss.

 

"SANITY IS FOR THE WEAK!"

[Malcador]

Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper

[Gfted1]

Id like to state for the record that I have a luscious full head of hair. Carry on.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper

 

Only those who prosper may judge what is sane.

[majestic]

"I don't see right winning votes on the weight of their economic programme. In fact, none of those parties have offered an economic alternative for the voter to latch onto, other than some extremely vague promises. Statements of the sort: "Bring back manufacturing jobs to the US", "We'll save xyz million euro if we leave the EU" were the least vague things I saw coming from the right."

 

Of course YOU don't. Because that would defy your agenda of  'it must be racism' like all SJW Nazis. L0L

 

Aren't you barking up the wrong tree here?