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The real influence of populism\nationalism in the EU


BruceVC

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http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/02/opinions/italy-referendum-preview/index.html

 

http://www.dw.com/en/trumps-shadow-looms-over-austrian-election/a-36594430

 

NIgel Farage claims  the year 2016 is the year that will be remembered as the " end of the EU " 

 

He attributes Brexit and the Trump victory as irrefutable proof that " the forces of global  nationalism are inexorable, implacable and inevitable " 

 

I think he is wrong but the elections in Austria and Italy will  be interesting to see how much influence his  type of ideology has in the post Trump and post Brexit world 

 

These elections are symbolically very important to the EU 

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"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I wish I knew more about this topic, but I think he's right in implying we live in a time of immediate, and highly reactive global politics. It's not unreasonable to think Trump's victory in the US will embolden the right in Europe. 

 

-edit for clarity.

Edited by licketysplit
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I wish I knew more about this topic, but I think he's right in implying we live in a time of global politics. It's not unreasonable to think Trump's victory in the US will embolden the right in Europe. 

I dont generally agree with Farage because I see the EU as a good system of creating economic union and prosperity but he makes very convincing arguments and I would argue many people on this forum would support his views

 

He is not some kind of zealot and he has been right around certain predictions so maybe he will be right about the demise of the EU?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I wish I knew more about this topic, but I think he's right in implying we live in a time of global politics. It's not unreasonable to think Trump's victory in the US will embolden the right in Europe. 

I forgot to actually respond to what you asked ..my bad  :facepalm:

 

These elections tomorrow are significant because they will be a benchmark to see how much political support nationalism and right wing politics has in the EU\

 

So lets say the right wing Austrian party wins and the Italian PM loses ....this will be a huge setback for the future of the EU and will suggest where the French election is going

\

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I think the EU should be more responsive to the member nations. The idea of the EU is good, but the execution has stripped member nations of the autonomy that is the definition of 'nation.' The smaller members can be railroaded by the larger members, but the larger members are stuck trying to address weaknesses in individual member banks. The euro is at once hostage to problems in weaker nations and those nations can't use monetary policy in dealing with their own individual problems. I'm not rooting for the EU to fail. I'm not rooting for it to succeed. I'm definitely rooting for Europe, but the EU is a different story. One where Germany basically doesn't bully members and where shady accounting doesn't keep propping up member nations would be great. One where Brussels and its massive bureaucracy dictates the rules at the expense of the sovereignty of the members is not good.

I feel cold as a razor blade,

tight as a tourniquet,

dry... as a funeral... drum... as it were...

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It's certainly the year racism and xenophobia came back to the fore. Nationalism with air quotes.

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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Bit off topic but what it is with the Trump obsession in the media?

I can't watch any news lately without being bombarded with everything he does.

"Trump calls, Trump eats, Trump speaks, Trump nominates."

There was nothing even remotely like this with Obama.

 

Reminds me that old joke about Lenin and being afraid to open a can of spam.

It's like all news suddenly became reality TV.

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It's certainly the year racism and xenophobia came back to the fore. Nationalism with air quotes.

Oh I meant to tell you, our predictions about the USA election   and basically getting the outcome completely wrong must not  be seen as a reflection on the failure of our views on SJ. I am just using the words "us " to include anyone who supported Hilary because of the view they considered Trump offensive and utterly unpresidential 

 

 volo said to me on another thread " I was wrong about Clinton ". But I wasnt wrong about Clinton, the word  " wrong " actually trivializes the election and the unexpected results. You can use that word if you made a bad call after critical thinking about something

 

But my issues with Trump were not just mine but part of  what the majority of people in the USA  thought, most Republicans thought Trump would lose

 

Many people I know who are Republican supporters didnt even watch the election because they assumed Clinton would win

 

So what does this tell us? This election was an anomaly and therefore unpredictable  because something unprecedented but necessary happened. The data was inconsistent and misleading ....

 

I cant hold myself responsible for that :) I have already taken some constructive lessons from this 

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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President. And it's a largely symbolic position too, with theoretical but not much practical power.

 

Weirdly bipolar media of it though, +/- 1.3% seems to be a landslide and they've gone from the end of western civilisation being heralded by the result to the end of fascism in our time over the course of a day.

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So what they're saying is that fascism is western civilization?

"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

"I originally just wanted to ignore this, but I can't sleep, so why not." - majestic

"I murdered my entire family as well as the police and priests investigating me for murdering my entire family in the name of Satan. Good times." - Bartimaeus

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"It's certainly the year racism and xenophobia came back to the fore. Nationalism with air quotes."

 

Youi still spamming that nonsense? That's not why Trump and Brexit won.

 

If any side is racist, btw, it is the other side.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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"It's certainly the year racism and xenophobia came back to the fore. Nationalism with air quotes."

 

Youi still spamming that nonsense? That's not why Trump and Brexit won.

 

If any side is racist, btw, it is the other side.

 

http://electionado.com/canvas/1479173071893

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"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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Guess the alt right tards who know absolutely nothing about Italy or what this election is about, are going to celebrate.

 

*checks Twitter*

 

Yep, that's what's happening, lol. I await political analysis from spheres outside social media to understand the implications, but some of the Merican right will align with this victory. 

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What's ironic is that current Italian constitution actually prohibits referendums on international treaties. And with current status quo, changing constitution would take a couple of centuries.

 

I'd not have trusted Renzi either, though. Just look at him.

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.

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What's ironic is that current Italian constitution actually prohibits referendums on international treaties. And with current status quo, changing constitution would take a couple of centuries.

 

I'd not have trusted Renzi either, though. Just look at him.

Renzi had the best interests of Italy in mind, he was trying to restructure the bloated and impotent levels of government bureaucracy

Italy is one of the PIGS  countries who has not managed there own economy effectively, it gets tiresome and irritating that the old Europe countries seem incapable to make the relevant and necessary guts in government spending and government structure  that every other EU country has been able to maintain

 

Italy now will continue with austerity  because the Italian parliament refuses really  to care about its citizens future 

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Good day for resignations, we've just lost our PM to [reasons] as well.

 

So what they're saying is that fascism is western civilization?

 

Well, technically they wouldn't be far off given how much western civilisation owes the Romans. I'm still in lol mood over the world not ending when Trump won despite the media thinking it would.

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I think it is HILARIOUS that the west is the one usualkly being accused of 'racism' and the like  yet the West is pretty much the (only) part of the world that accepts people into their countries that don't necessarily look like them.

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DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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"It's certainly the year racism and xenophobia came back to the fore. Nationalism with air quotes."

 

Youi still spamming that nonsense? That's not why Trump and Brexit won.

 

If any side is racist, btw, it is the other side.

http://electionado.com/canvas/1479173071893

Another guy blacksplaining white working class. It's like me writing an essay "the third trimester and what to expect".

 

For a while I considered you a bigot because you said several very offensive things and you didn't seem to understand why what you said was unacceptable

 

But you haven't said anything for a while that was offensive ( calling me names is irrelevant ) so someone spoke to you and I think you doing very well so well done  :thumbsup:

  • Like 1

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Trump is the natural result of identity politics. When you foster a culture of different groups being oppressed due to different -isms, why are you surprised if the majority group suddenly elect someone on these very premises? You reap what you sow, so be thankful that this ideological monster of yours was stopped by loudmouth real-estate builder with a tacky sense aesthetics and not the next Caesar.

 

I can't find the research now, but i read recently that 36% of swedes do not know of anything that characterizes Sweden as swedish, which sounds borderline hysterical. A lot more swedes are in a dire need to travel further outside their bordes to understand how unique they are; And no, getting drunk on the cruise to the Aaland islands doesn't count.

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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