The US Election, Part XI

[Meshugger]

 

 

I think the media wants to know where he is at all times so they can spam his location so some crazy can assassinate him. More than a few wackos have lost their job for threatening Trump already post election. They're lucky  that  that Obama is still president and won't have them investigated. He'd likjely pardon any assassin if they do  while he is still in office.

 

This is eerie. I am thinking the same thing.

 

Okay so what is your reason for this type of inexplicable thinking?  A mild psychosis or just irrational fear that the " Muricans may invade Finland "  ?

 

 

Empathy, Bruce. Empathy.

[BruceVC]

Only Jewish people get offended at being compared to a genocidal racist?

Im from the UK, its like saying  " all white people from the UK  have  a bit of Stalin in them" ...its such a nebulous association why would I get offended? For example just because you Russian someone calling you Stalin would that actually offend you ? 

 

For me real bigotry is not about words,  it has to have intent and impact. I am honestly battling to think  what you could call any white person that would conjure up real images of misery?

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

I think the media wants to know where he is at all times so they can spam his location so some crazy can assassinate him. More than a few wackos have lost their job for threatening Trump already post election. They're lucky  that  that Obama is still president and won't have them investigated. He'd likjely pardon any assassin if they do  while he is still in office.

 

This is eerie. I am thinking the same thing.

 

Okay so what is your reason for this type of inexplicable thinking?  A mild psychosis or just irrational fear that the " Muricans may invade Finland "  ?

 

 

Empathy, Bruce. Empathy.

 

Okay....well normally I would take any post with the word empathy in it seriously because I often say " in life we need to have empathy " 

 

But you have never really demonstrated any real empathy on these forums? Or am I being unfair ?

[Gromnir]

 

Also against Natives.

Knock me over with a feather! For whatever reason, Ive never once considered that NA's would also be in Canada. Obviously things didn't go well in the US but whats the relationship with the Canadian government? Are there reservations in Canada too?

 

canada has reserves rather than reservations.  biggest difference 'tween reserves and reservations is the degree o' control and self-determination the native peoples have within the borders o' those tracts o' land. when dealing with indigenous peoples, canada has been more consistent over the years and is currently far more paternalistic than is the US fed.  as such, US reservations have greater extremes o' success and failure, though canadian reserves is nevertheless trending more towards fail than success in spite o' greater Parliamentary control. 

 

am recalling 'bout ten years ago how dave gaider, a dyed-in-wool social justice warrior and vocal advocate o' lgbt rights, were raging on the bio boards 'bout the native peoples o' canada and the poor management o' reserves.  curious disconnect? nope. dave's car had been stolen and abandoned on or near a reserve. dave's values were tested and at the time, he sounded far more like a trump supporter circa 2016 than the vocal proponent o' all things good and just and sunny he is today. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited November 17, 2016 by Gromnir

[BruceVC]

 

 

Also against Natives.

Knock me over with a feather! For whatever reason, Ive never once considered that NA's would also be in Canada. Obviously things didn't go well in the US but whats the relationship with the Canadian government? Are there reservations in Canada too?

 

canada has reserves rather than reservations.  biggest difference 'tween reserves and reservations is the degree o' control and self-determination the native peoples have within the borders o' those tracts o' land. when dealing with indigenous peoples, canada has been more consistent over the years and is currently far more paternalistic than is the US fed.  as such, US reservations have greater extremes o' success and failure, though canadian reserves is nevertheless trending more towards fail than success in spite o' greater Parliamentary control. 

 

am recalling 'bout ten years ago how dave gaider, a dyed-in-wool social justice warrior and vocal advocate o' lgbt rights, were raging on the bio boards 'bout the native peoples o' canada and the poor management o' reserves.  curious disconnect? nope. dave's car had been stolen and abandoned on or near a reserve. dave's values were tested and at the time, he sounded far more like a trump supporter circa 2016 than the vocal proponent o' all things good and just and sunny he is today. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

David Gaider was a very brave man who was the first game writer to introduce gay Romance into the Bioware series

 

As usual this type of pioneering was rejected by some but I respect him immensely for taking the brave step into this type of inclusivity   

[Gfted1]

LGBT characters in video games.

[Gromnir]

we like dave.  nevertheless, on the issue o' canada's indigenous peoples, dave were full o' venom and vitriol.  reading dave's posts, we got no doubt bruce woulda' been channeling iron eyes cody. more than a few bruce tears would salt the earth 'pon seeing how a social justice warrior such as dave could harbor such anger for native peoples. 

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps funny aside, iron eyes cody were actual espera oscar de corti, the child of sicilian immigrants.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Gromnir

[imaenoon]

EDIT: why bother

Edited November 17, 2016 by imaenoon

[Drowsy Emperor]

Oh the ultimate reason that the whole of the western world is shifting to the right is that economics have been going down the drain for decades. Its been a very slow trickle downwards, but problems have finally accumulated to the point that they can have serious political implications.

 

At one point one man's work was enough to feed and house a family. Now both partners work like dogs and never see their children for the same result.

 

The lower classes lack political organization and numbers to drive these changes. But enough of the middle class has eroded and is resembling the lower classes in many things except for the physicality of the work - so that when their numbers add up they can put someone like Trump in power.

The intellectuals that voted out of spite because of the dishonesty of the current system are surely a minority.

 

I don't think anything lesser of either the lower or the middle class for it - the reaction has been long overdue. 

Edited November 17, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[Zoraptor]

And that is only going to get worse so long as current policies continue.

 

There are two mutually incompatible forces at work. Most western countries aren't having enough children for a population where the old are expected to live into their late 70s or 80s. But, ironically, there also aren't enough jobs for those children anyway; and the people who pay for those jobs don't want to pay what a closed market would demand, they want someone used to an Indian/ Indonesian/ Mexican/ African or wherever else wage to be in them. So you have the peculiar circumstance of simultaneously having too many and too few jobs for too many and too few people. You also have the competing desires of the older part of the populace- who want the superannuation, healthcare etc that they paid for over 40 years- versus the younger population who have to pay for it all once the older people retire, because governments accumulated debt rather than prepared for all those old people, shifting the burden onto the current generation. Since old people vote they tend to get what they want, which leaves much of the younger set and anyone who expected to have a manufacturing job for life deeply disillusioned and looking for someone to blame.

 

When political and economic orthodoxy is failing people go for the unorthodox, and that means either left or right.

 

The most ironic thing is probably old people blaming millenials for everything having voted themselves low taxes, debt spending, easy credit and everything else that benefits them and their position. Having their cake, eating their cake then complaining that their children need to harden up because they're taking the children's cake and eating that too.

 

(as always with generalisations, it's deeply unfair to certain individuals within the generalised group. otoh, if you keep voting from pure self interest don't complain when others do the same)

[Drowsy Emperor]

Its true. Europe has become an old society, a gerontocracy, without the fire necessary for genuine political upheaval. 

 

The sort of idea of having this stagnant state where everyone is permanently wealthy because they all never split their wealth among multiple children simply doesn't work. With civilizations, its expand or die. You have to create wealth, not just shuffle it around.

 

The funny thing is that the EU is immensely powerful in aggregate. But they're all just pissing it away.

 

 300 million people and not one real leader at the head of any single state? Okay.

 

The only politician in Europe that can say he achieved a major political goal in his lifetime is Nigel Farage. Dwell on that for a moment

Edited November 17, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

I think the media wants to know where he is at all times so they can spam his location so some crazy can assassinate him. More than a few wackos have lost their job for threatening Trump already post election. They're lucky  that  that Obama is still president and won't have them investigated. He'd likjely pardon any assassin if they do  while he is still in office.

 

This is eerie. I am thinking the same thing.

 

Okay so what is your reason for this type of inexplicable thinking?  A mild psychosis or just irrational fear that the " Muricans may invade Finland "  ?

 

 

Empathy, Bruce. Empathy.

 

Okay....well normally I would take any post with the word empathy in it seriously because I often say " in life we need to have empathy " 

 

But you have never really demonstrated any real empathy on these forums? Or am I being unfair ?

 

 

Empathy in trying to get my point. 

 

I only have suspicions, but following a person in their every move and report it to everyone is in itself not of best intensions. One could even say malevolent, so the thought of hoping that someone would snap and take care of this unperson called Trump is not that far fetched though. I hope that i am wrong and it is just a sign of hysteria.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Frankly Bruce, I've had my fair share of disagreements and arguments in this forum with a lot of people, but if there is one person that strikes me as being genuinely incapable of empathy, its you.

 

And I don't say this because of your well known comments regarding the bombing of Yugoslavia, I say it because you speak like a political mouthpiece and its simply impossible to tell what is your genuine opinion (if you even have any) and what is just passive-aggressive baiting of others.  

[BruceVC]

Oh the ultimate reason that the whole of the western world is shifting to the right is that economics have been going down the drain for decades. Its been a very slow trickle downwards, but problems have finally accumulated to the point that they can have serious political implications.

 

At one point one man's work was enough to feed and house a family. Now both partners work like dogs and never see their children for the same result.

 

The lower classes lack political organization and numbers to drive these changes. But enough of the middle class has eroded and is resembling the lower classes in many things except for the physicality of the work - so that when their numbers add up they can put someone like Trump in power.

The intellectuals that voted out of spite because of the dishonesty of the current system are surely a minority.

 

I don't think anything lesser of either the lower or the middle class for it - the reaction has been long overdue. 

Your view that the West is in economic decline is horribly inaccurate ...

 

Come on the Internet is easy to use ?

 

http://howafrica.com/worlds-largest-economies-2016/

[Volourn]

"I am well aware that anywhere in the world where white people are dominant there will always be small groups within those white communities that are racist or display bigotry"

 

You actually believe that racism/.bigotry is just a white only disease? ARE YOU INSANE? Bigotry/hatred against something(one) different than you was a thing well before the first white person appeared. COME ON.

 

 Hell, I know people have a habit of dehumanizing Indians by whitewashing their history but  they have a LONG history of hatred of those of different tribes. Multiuple tribes were wiped out by other tribes for giggles. And, let's not pretend the ME doesn't exist. Not to mention the whole Japanese vs Chinese  fun. LMAO And, blacks and Asians also have a nice history in the US of racial disharmony.

 

 

L0L Racxism/.bigotry is a white only disease. L0L HAHAHAHA

[BruceVC]

Frankly Bruce, I've had my fair share of disagreements and arguments in this forum with a lot of people, but if there is one person that strikes me as being genuinely incapable of empathy, its you.

 

And I don't say this because of your well known comments regarding the bombing of Yugoslavia, I say it because you speak like a political mouthpiece and its simply impossible to tell what is your genuine opinion (if you even have any) and what is just passive-aggressive baiting of others.  

That is also very inaccurate...how can you suggest I dont care about events or people ?

 

" passive -aggressive " ? I cannot believe you are being serious, ask anyone who engages with me...ask GD or Meshugger or anyone else ...ask volo

 

I have huge empathy for certain things and people, unless that is not how I come across which is unlikely but possible ?

Edited November 17, 2016 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

And that is only going to get worse so long as current policies continue.

 

There are two mutually incompatible forces at work. Most western countries aren't having enough children for a population where the old are expected to live into their late 70s or 80s. But, ironically, there also aren't enough jobs for those children anyway; and the people who pay for those jobs don't want to pay what a closed market would demand, they want someone used to an Indian/ Indonesian/ Mexican/ African or wherever else wage to be in them. So you have the peculiar circumstance of simultaneously having too many and too few jobs for too many and too few people. You also have the competing desires of the older part of the populace- who want the superannuation, healthcare etc that they paid for over 40 years- versus the younger population who have to pay for it all once the older people retire, because governments accumulated debt rather than prepared for all those old people, shifting the burden onto the current generation. Since old people vote they tend to get what they want, which leaves much of the younger set and anyone who expected to have a manufacturing job for life deeply disillusioned and looking for someone to blame.

 

When political and economic orthodoxy is failing people go for the unorthodox, and that means either left or right.

 

The most ironic thing is probably old people blaming millenials for everything having voted themselves low taxes, debt spending, easy credit and everything else that benefits them and their position. Having their cake, eating their cake then complaining that their children need to harden up because they're taking the children's cake and eating that too.

 

(as always with generalisations, it's deeply unfair to certain individuals within the generalised group. otoh, if you keep voting from pure self interest don't complain when others do the same)

Oh here we go....I have to say this is  a new low even for you in your surreptious attempts to undermine the USA 

 

Playing the old  " the West is running out of children " conspiracy theory...Zora do you think anyone in the USA believes what you say ? 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

"Everything's going just fine, shut up proles" - wealthy spawn of banker

 

The west is shifting right because the economy is disintegrating with globalisation+automation(the natural evolution of capitalism) and the right is the only saying anything about it with the most radical of the political (reformist) left being castrated socdems too scared to challenge the status quo. There's no way to reverse the former and the latter would take a great fire that resurrects the corpse of the radical left. There's going to be some economic turbulence soon, and perhaps having right-populists in charge during it will be that fire.

 

At any rate the coming years will be interesting.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

Oh the ultimate reason that the whole of the western world is shifting to the right is that economics have been going down the drain for decades. Its been a very slow trickle downwards, but problems have finally accumulated to the point that they can have serious political implications.

 

At one point one man's work was enough to feed and house a family. Now both partners work like dogs and never see their children for the same result.

 

The lower classes lack political organization and numbers to drive these changes. But enough of the middle class has eroded and is resembling the lower classes in many things except for the physicality of the work - so that when their numbers add up they can put someone like Trump in power.

The intellectuals that voted out of spite because of the dishonesty of the current system are surely a minority.

 

I don't think anything lesser of either the lower or the middle class for it - the reaction has been long overdue. 

Your view that the West is in economic decline is horribly inaccurate ...

 

Come on the Internet is easy to use ?

 

http://howafrica.com/worlds-largest-economies-2016/

 

 

Decline is defined by having less of something than you had yesterday, not whatever one figure is relevant at any given moment.

[BruceVC]

"Everything's going just fine, shut up proles" - wealthy spawn of banker

 

The west is shifting right because the economy is disintegrating with globalisation+automation(the natural evolution of capitalism) and the right is the only saying anything about it with the most radical of the political (reformist) left being castrated socdems too scared to challenge the status quo. There's no way to reverse the former and the latter would take a great fire that resurrects the corpse of the radical left. There's going to be some economic turbulence soon, and perhaps having right-populists in charge during it will be that fire.

 

At any rate the coming years will be interesting.

KP again I find myself thoroughly disappointed by your anti-USA  sentiment

 

It would be different if this was post was at least accurate but its not. It reminds me of something that Serb political commentator would say, its basically rhetoric and hyperbole 

 

Please provide the links to support this radical view but its highly unlikely you will have more insight into the strength and sustainability of the US economy than people I know who currently work in Wall Street 

[Hurlshort]

 

 

Decline is defined by having less of something than you had yesterday, not whatever one figure is relevant at any given moment.

 

 

Then I am not sure how you can possibly characterize the west as in decline.  Growth amongst lower and middle classes is terribly stagnant compared to the wealthy, but compared to the past most people are still seeing an improvement in most areas.  Food, shelter, clothing, health care, etc.  

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

If it's radical and anti-USA to support the American workers over the bourgeoisieparasites called "the 1%", then **** it I'm a hardcore anti-USA radical. Your friends on wall street are parasites whose insight into the US economy has nothing to do with standard of living and is far removed from the experience of the American laborer. But please, tell us how everything is fine because GDP increased while ignorong how real wages have stagnated and underemployment/unemployment have increased.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

 

Decline is defined by having less of something than you had yesterday, not whatever one figure is relevant at any given moment.

 

 

Then I am not sure how you can possibly characterize the west as in decline.  Growth amongst lower and middle classes is terribly stagnant compared to the wealthy, but compared to the past most people are still seeing an improvement in most areas.  Food, shelter, clothing, health care, etc.  

 

 

Which past?

[BruceVC]

If it's radical and anti-USA to support the American workers over the bourgeoisieparasites called "the 1%", then **** it I'm a hardcore anti-USA radical. Your friends on wall street are parasites whose insight into the US economy has nothing to do with standard of living and is far removed from the experience of the American laborer. But please, tell us how everything is fine because GDP increased while ignorong how real wages have stagnated and underemployment/unemployment have increased.

KP I have no reason to lie to you, I understand your view of the US corporations and how you perceive they treat the average citizen. You consider the US banking sector as callous and greedy. But to say they parasites is unfair ?

 

Why is the banks fault for the reality of the American laborer.....can you honestly tell me you care about the average laborer?

 

Anyway I dont want to come across as dismissive or lacking in empathy but if you really think the US economy is doomed then you should be able to produce links?

[Hurlshort]

 

 

 

 

Decline is defined by having less of something than you had yesterday, not whatever one figure is relevant at any given moment.

 

 

Then I am not sure how you can possibly characterize the west as in decline.  Growth amongst lower and middle classes is terribly stagnant compared to the wealthy, but compared to the past most people are still seeing an improvement in most areas.  Food, shelter, clothing, health care, etc.  

 

 

Which past?

 

 

You can take any time period you want.  Food production, medical technology, and housing have all become better over time.  We aren't even a generation removed from asbestos in the walls.  Just look at the infant mortality rates over the last 80 years.  We've had this argument before.  Give me some real evidence that the western world is in decline as a whole, not a handful of tragic examples.