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For me the most useless class is Hunter. I mean I don't claim they totally suck - I just do not need them in my team of 6. I never did in other RPGs, too.

It's hard to balance rangers right.Due to their solitary nature they usually don't bring any buffs, cc or passives that make the party stronger. They are mostly designen around [ranger + pet] duo. Game designer can make this pair weaker than other average class; stronger; or being on par. But even if they are perfectly balanced dps wise, their versatility would still be questionable as they can't escape like rogues, can't save a teammate like a paladin, priest or any hard-cc class, and they don't have any ace in the sleeve for the boss fights.
As for OP's question, I still believe that class power depends on game difficulty, resting frequency and the party composition built around that character.Assuming optimal use of the class/build, in my humble opinion classes could be placed in the following tiers:Pre-PotD difficulty (easy-medium encounters; resting > 8 fights)tier 1: ciphertier 2: barbarian, paladin, fighter, ranger, wizard (blasting), chantertier 3: rogue, monk, druidtier 4: priest, wizard (pure-caster)Pre-PotD difficulty (easy-medium encounters; resting > 4 fights)tier 1: ciphertier 2: barbarian, paladin, fighter, ranger, wizard (blasting), chanter, rogue, monk, druidtier 3: priest, wizard (pure-caster)Pre-PotD difficulty (boss fights)tier S: priesttier 0: wizard, druidtier 1: cipher, fighter, paladintier 2: barbarian, ranger, chanter, rogue, monk----------------------------PotD difficulty (easy-medium encounters; resting > 8 fights)tier 1: ciphertier 2: barbarian, paladin, wizard (blasting), monktier 3: druid, fighter, ranger, chantertier 4: priest, wizard (pure-caster), roguePotD difficulty (easy-medium encounters; resting > 4 fights)tier 1: ciphertier 2: barbarian, paladin, fighter, ranger, wizard (blasting), chanter, monk, druidtier 3: priest, wizard (pure-caster), roguePotD difficulty (boss fights)tier S: priesttier 0: wizard, druid, ciphertier 1: paladintier 2: barbarian, ranger, fighter, chanter, monktier 3: rogue----------------------------Combining that all together, plus how many there are boss/hard fights vs easy/medium ones, I'd overall place classes in following tiers of power: (for PotD 6-man party), (taking into account their overall contribution over the whole play-through)tier 1.0: cipher, wizardtier 2.0: priest, druidtier 2.3: paladin, barbariantier 3.0: chanter, ranger, monktier 3.4: fightertier 4.0: rogue

Some good points but I think you might have cipher a bit high and chanter to low on the list, at least that's my experience. The problem, of course with these lists in general is you also have to take into account level and party composition... so it's one of those fun questions like whose the best rock guitarist of all time...

Sure you can kinda get a general idea but it's all subjective and largely depends on play style.

For me, I'd say the top 3 are definitely: priest, Druid and wizard. (In no particular order). They have the tools to handle just about most situations efficiently.

Tier 2: Cipher, Chanter, Monk, Barbarian(high level with HOF)

3: Paladin, ranger, fighter

4: Rogue

 

But it depends on so many things....

Having said that, I don't normally play with priests/wizards, and by far the easiest play throughs I've had, have been with a wizard, priest,Druid party. It was like dropping down a couple notches in difficulty.


"Those who look upon gods then say, without even knowing their names, 'He is Fire. She is Dance. He is Destruction. She is Love.' So, to reply to your statement, they do not call themselves gods. Everyone else does, though, everyone who beholds them."
"So they play that on their fascist banjos, eh?"
"You choose the wrong adjective."
"You've already used up all the others.”

 

Lord of Light

 

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That's what I like about PoE. It all depends on party composition and personal playstyle. And you can come with a lot of optimal choices and have even non tier 1 class contribute a lot if it fills the right niche in your party.  

 

Unlike in Tyranny.. where is one godly power build, 2-3 almost-godly builds, and everything else is tier 9.

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So I made my list based on how much easier the character makes the game on PotD (thats the true meaning of power imo). That includes ease of use, as well as availability of build defining weapons/talents and how powerful the build(s) are in all stages of the game. I try my hardest not to cheese and not to abuse choke points so I like melee heavy parties that protect one or two less defended ranged characters. I also don't like respeccing unless I am trying to fine tune a new build. I hate running back and forth and like to try and finish dungeons with 2 camping supplies + whatever is inside. Also I am assuming use of what I consider the strongest builds.

 

Wizard - best control best melee damage least squishy caster       -  mechanics bot

Priest - best support/healing, can be fairly sturdy

Druid - best ranged aoe and strong control. good mix between buffs, damage, and control

 

Barbarian - firebrand build is insane aoe melee dps and available way earlier than citzal's. Gets plenty tanky pretty quick as well, can also be a back-line control machine with tall grass

 

Fighter - intelligence builds are very strong. only viable full tank and can be really strong unkillable melee dps that is useful with a wide range of weapons. The knockdown tank build is somewhat weak until 7 but is an awesome party leader and ok as an early game meat-bag/knockdown bot. 

Rogue - ranged build with borresaine. super early weapon availability, high damage and strong target lockdown. super powerful at dealing with the more annoying casters and enemies with high enough defenses to defend against aoe control.        -      also easy +3 mechanics

Paladin - really great abilities but outclassed by priest at all phases of game. no suberb builds except full support tank that is imo just a worse priest that can take more hits. I'd rather dump perception and pump resolve on my priest and make him a support only that can take a few hits. I like paladins though so I usually bring one anyway.

 

Monk - the best builds are really micro intensive. really strong but way too much effort to squeeze the most out of him.

Cipher - really strong damage but I find the abilities too annoying to use and he can't handle the front line like the wizard. too outclassed imo  

Ranger - if the pet death didn't give the debuff I would like this class more. best single target ranged damage but the rogue is almost as good and gets free control as well.

 

Chanter - really useful late game with dragon thrashed but is too useless until then. master of cheese though

Edited by George_Truman

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Are we including scrolls/spellcasting items in the comparison? Those would have an impact on relative class balance thanks to their interaction with certain abilities like Driving Flight or Deathblows.

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Basically, the ability to use items and scrolls is :

 

Rogue>>martials>>casters

(also given than a class defensive passives are still important when you use items)

 

Which is basically and fortunately the opposite of class balance.

 

Among the best abilities for an item user are :

-Deathblows

-Dirty Fighting

-Deep wounds

-Disciplined barrage

-Driving Flight

-Sworn ennemy

and of course base Accuracy !

 

Chanters are good items user too, not because they are specifically good at ut, but because they can still chant while using items.

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Vicious Aim also works with some of the ranged targeted spells - as does pen. shot. But it's only the +20% damage that gets applied.

 

Another great ability for scoll casting is everything that speeds you up, esp. Blood Thirst.

 

But there's nothing that beats a rogue who casts Combusting Wounds + Missile Barrage + Deathblows with max DR bypass. ;)

Edited by Boeroer

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Rogue specialization toward using items as a secondary feature is great. It is nice lore-wise, gives them enough raw power and is radically different from other classes.

 

I'm pretty sure the current design is not intentionnal because Deathblow is not consistent with sneak attack. But it would be great if the Devs keep it.

 

It seems to be the design choice for Tides of Numenera by the way.

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IIRC, the +10 Ranged Accuracy from Vicious Aim works on most spells, but I don't have the exact numbers. Loren Tyr would know for sure since he did a lot of testing in that regard.

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I tested that also when trying to build something like " counselor poi " ( see the paladin build ) with a ranger. Turned out that worked with charm and most other spell, and that, paired with ranger base accuracy of 30 ( +5 vs paladin) gives you the same accuracy that paladin would have casting sworn enemy on everyone. The only problem is that beign a ranger he was not enough sturdy ( i play mostly solo run and hate kite tactics, so my char must have some tanking capacity) so in the end i abandoned the project.

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You can try with fighter + disciplined barrage. I'm trying this right now. I'm close from getting White Crest. I guess Disciplined Barrage + Overwhelming Wave + Charge will be fun :-

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Too bad The White Crest's Overwhelming Wave is only 1/rest. You should also try the Swaddling Sheet in combination with not too high deflection. At least that's 1/encounter, multidirectional and foe only.


Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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I thought about this initially, but I'm a control freak and don't like this uncontrolable stuff. I will probably try it anyway.

 

My current plan is this finger that gives +3 CON and mind lance.

 

Disciplined Barrage + Wave + Mind lance + Charge sounds like a real line attack.

 

I trust my full attack knockdowns, charge and Abydon's Stun (secondary set) to carry trash fights.

Edited by Elric Galad

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