BruceVC Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Maybe it wouldn't help in this particular case but it would in many others. Most people cant resist the lure of running their mouths on social media and telephone so I think it could catch a lot of them. Nope No this article is utter nonsense, its not just 9 years old at the time no one knew about Prism You can tell the author doesnt know about the real capabilities of Prism because he says the USA "Secretly monitoring the email messages and phone calls " .....no mention of forums and social media Plus the author is from Norway...what does he know about the NSA "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Oh well, guess there's nothing we can do. Bummer. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) No this article is utter nonsense, its not just 9 years old article date: May 24, 2006 current date: June 13, 2016 post rating: perfect 5/7 I wouldn't expect Bruce to understand elementary statistics or arguments based on them, but failure to count along his fingers is a new low. It's little gems like this that leave little room for doubt that it's a troll account. Edited June 13, 2016 by 213374U 1 - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Oh well, guess there's nothing we can do. Bummer. Not necessarily This guy lived in the USA for years so he would have had an Internet presence but the question is how long before the attack did he keep using the Internet and who did he communicate with in the days before. o But Gfted1 the suggestion to use Prism more aggressively is viable. I'll be honest I dont understand how you guys who live in the USA arent insisting on it. These should be the ONLY questions people are ruminating on Does the USA face real threats domestically from extremists : YES Is there are a way to improve surveillance and increased monitoring : YES Will this increased monitoring impact me as a US citizen : NO Will this increased monitoring access my data : YES There hasn't been a single case I know of where Prism has been abused, yet people have this irrational fear of something that wont actually use there data to find real threats If there was no threat from ISIS I would say its not needed but Gfted1 can you tell me what the issue people have with Prism? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 No this article is utter nonsense, its not just 9 years old article date: May 24, 2006 current date: June 13, 2016 post rating: perfect 5/7 I wouldn't expect Bruce to understand elementary statistics or arguments based on them, but failure to count along his fingers is a new low. It's little gems like this that leave little room for doubt that it's a troll account. Sorry I was 1 year off, doesnt change the fact its horribly outdated and inaccurate "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I am, on the other hand, because even the most cursory look at that frikkin' chart reveals that the USA had more than 12 times as many such incidents than the country with the next highest rate of incidence (and almost 40 times as many as half the countries shown). To claim that the US is not an extreme outlier strikes me as incredibly contrived in light of that. 12 times as many incidents and a more than 35 times larger population. You can't just ignore that. His point stands. I genuinely have no idea where you've got that number from (according to the chart, Germany has a population of ~82 million people, whereas the US has ~315 million; it's not even 4 times as big). Moreover, the uncropped version of that chart features 34 countries and 61 incidents in total. The US boasts nearly two-thirds of all incidents, despite the fact that the total population of all featured countries is in the rough ballpark of 1180m - meaning that a country with fourth the population of the sum total is responsible for two-thirds of all incidents. If that doesn't seem like a statistical outlier to you, I have no idea what to say. "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Not necessarily This guy lived in the USA for years so he would have had an Internet presence but the question is how long before the attack did he keep using the Internet and who did he communicate with in the days before. o But Gfted1 the suggestion to use Prism more aggressively is viable. I'll be honest I dont understand how you guys who live in the USA arent insisting on it. These should be the ONLY questions people are ruminating on Does the USA face real threats domestically from extremists : YES Is there are a way to improve surveillance and increased monitoring : YES Will this increased monitoring impact me as a US citizen : NO Will this increased monitoring access my data : YES There hasn't been a single case I know of where Prism has been abused, yet people have this irrational fear of something that wont actually use there data to find real threats If there was no threat from ISIS I would say its not needed but Gfted1 can you tell me what the issue people have with Prism? Well, I was being a bit facetious. Of course I too think a 9 year old outdated article doesn't represent todays real world capabilities but you cant really argue with math. I don't know who the dude is who wrote the article but maybe those deficiencies can be overcome with todays algorithms and computational horsepower? People don't like PRISM because "waaaaa, me privacy is invaded." I for one feel it should be in use in all places of US interest and at all times. Let the computer weed out the garbage and act on what seems plausible. Works for me. 1 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I friendly reminder of gun violence, where it happens, among which demographics, correlations with poverty and so on if you want a bigger picture of the situation. 1 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 People don't like PRISM because "waaaaa, me privacy is invaded." I for one feel it should be in use in all places of US interest and at all times. Let the computer weed out the garbage and act on what seems plausible. Works for me. ^Ladies and gents, Poe's law in action. "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namutree Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 http://www.christiantoday.com/article/orlando.shooting.why.christians.must.not.stay.quiet/88192.htm This was more than an attack LGBT people. The guy declared his allegiance to ISIS (a terrorist group) before he died. LGBT were targeted as the killer had a special hatred of them, but this was also an attack on America at large. Respect - We need to call this what it is: a targeted hate crime. We must not allow this story (as Sky News and The Sun already seem to have done in the UK) to become subverted into a story about terror, ISIS and general American safety. We should call out the harmful idea that this could have been any nightclub; it just happened to be a gay one. This was no coincidence, and suggesting that it was only increases the pain and sense of injustice that the LGBT community is feeling. No one is suggesting it's just a coincidence, but pretending that this man was not a part of a larger Islamist movement determined to bring down our society is flat out dishonest. It is also about terrorism, ISIS, and American safety. This guy was not just a homophobic lunatic that would be less common if only we were less homophobic; he was an Islamist radical bent on all of our deaths. This represents a threat to us all; not just LGBT. We all have cause for concern. Does this clown seriously believe an ally of ISIS wouldn't be willing to kill ordinary Americans? Welcome - For years campaigners within the church have been pointing to the number of gay Christian teenagers who've committed or attempted suicide because they were unable to reconcile their faith and their sexuality. That in itself hasn't been enough to help many churches become welcoming to and accepting of LGBT people, although of course, many are. There is no argument for churches actively rejecting any people on the basis of their sexuality or gender, and perhaps that is even clearer in the light of this attack upon those who don't fit the neat heterosexual male/female mould. Of course 'welcome' and 'acceptance' will look vastly different between different churches, but we need to get better at managing the tension between strong and respectfully held theological beliefs on certain behaviours, and unconditional love. And the love must come first. I don't have a problem with any of this, but none of this is relevant to the situation. How does Christian churches being less homophobic stop radical Islamist groups from committing acts of violence against LGBT citizens or beyond? THE ANSWER: It doesn't, and would make the situation no better. There is NOTHING socially that Christian churches can do to pacify Islamist radicals from wreaking havoc. The Islamist is the problem, not Christian attitudes towards gays. Rethink. It's time to change the narrative on Gun Control. Christians – who still represent a huge and awesomely powerful political lobby in the US – simply have to take the lead on cutting back, and perhaps eventually stamping out personal gun ownership. Most of the arguments against that are wounded every time America suffers another of these regular gun massacres; the rest are simply pragmatic (the bad guys already have guns, so we must have them too), but Jesus was an idealist who called people to a better way of living. I do not underestimate how hard this is, or how entrenched this right and value feels for my American cousins. But incidents like this should act as a prompt to offer every area of our thinking to God and ask: is it possible that I could be wrong on this? Because a radical Islamist can't possibly get any guns illegally right? Maybe just make a bomb instead? An Islamist radical will find a way to kill people; that's a given. No amount of gun control, even magic gun control that made all guns in the universe disappear could make a meaningful difference. The Islamist is the problem; not guns. It seems like the author wants to deal with everything but what actually matters: Islamist radicals. "An Islamist radical committed a terrorist attack, it must be CHRISTIAN'S fault." That's his logic. some Christians have been at the forefront of promoting a Donald Trump-esque ideology of segregation and fear. Do you guys remember when Donald Trump suggested anything akin to segregation? Me neither. It's almost like this guy is an idiot. 1 "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 People don't like PRISM because "waaaaa, me privacy is invaded." I for one feel it should be in use in all places of US interest and at all times. Let the computer weed out the garbage and act on what seems plausible. Works for me. ^Ladies and gents, Poe's law in action. You think? His answer seems reasonable and rationale ? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 People don't like PRISM because "waaaaa, me privacy is invaded." I for one feel it should be in use in all places of US interest and at all times. Let the computer weed out the garbage and act on what seems plausible. Works for me. ^Ladies and gents, Poe's law in action. You think? His answer seems reasonable and rationale ? As long as you imagine programmers to be omnicompetent and faultless, sure. But any computer system's only ever going to be as good as the guy who made it, and false positives (not to mention false negatives) are pretty much inevitable even if you imagine that it works only with the tiniest rates of error because of how unimaginably huge is the amount of information it has to chew through. 1 "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 People don't like PRISM because "waaaaa, me privacy is invaded." I for one feel it should be in use in all places of US interest and at all times. Let the computer weed out the garbage and act on what seems plausible. Works for me. ^Ladies and gents, Poe's law in action. You think? His answer seems reasonable and rationale ? As long as you imagine programmers to be omnicompetent and faultless, sure. But any computer system's only ever going to be as good as the guy who made it, and false positives (not to mention false negatives) are pretty much inevitable even if you imagine that it works only with the tiniest rates of error because of how unimaginably huge is the amount of information it has to chew through. Sure, those are all valid issues with computer systems But Prism is much more than that, of course its architecture is classified but Snowden released some details I have asked people I know who work in the US what they know about it and I got some mixed feedback So apparently Prism is a rack of super-computers and it really has the capacity to analyze all required domestic data in the USA but it has modular targeting of data so you would select email, social media etc. The analysis would take time and you would need to find a data signature but it can be used more effectively internally if the US citizens stopped vilifying it "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Might as well make carrying guns mandatory now. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Might as well make carrying guns mandatory now. That's not a bad idea. With mandatory training and annual renewals required. He would have still killed some but not 50 before someone put a cap in his ass. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) - "B-b-but, sir. I promise, i forgot at it at home! The alarm clock never went off, the wife is sick and i had to rush the kids to the kindergarden and" - "Just shut up citizen and arm yourself immidiately. You will now be issued with a standard issue .305 rifle and fine for not carrying a non-concealed weapon. The value of the rifle will be added to your annual tax report, according the 28th amendment in the United States Constitution. You will not try to commit a federal crime now would you citizen?" -"N-n-n-no, sir!" *The man sobs as he grabs the rifle and deeply regrets his foolish decision of putting other matters at hand first before the constitution* *The sheriff looks proudly at the horizon as the citizen continued his travels. He inhaled freedom and exhaled liberty for the rest of the day* Edited June 13, 2016 by Meshugger 3 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Rifles are for chumps in urban conditions. A nice semi-automatic handgun would be much more efficient and useful. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 What we need is bullet control 2 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Got it covered: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW2DwQun95s "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) Omar's father seems to be quite loopy as well: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-shooting-omar-mateen-father-seddique-mateen-taliban-god-punish-gays/ EDIT// More about Omar's family: https://twitter.com/JohnGort/status/742170154247688192/photo/1 https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/742204925271285760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw Interesting. Edited June 13, 2016 by Meshugger 1 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Omar's father seems to be quite loopy as well: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-shooting-omar-mateen-father-seddique-mateen-taliban-god-punish-gays/ Wow ...that dad sounds like a positive influence "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Rifles are for chumps in urban conditions. A nice semi-automatic handgun would be much more efficient and useful. Surely you meant a rocket launcher. 2 "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Rifles are handy in a setting with ready made sniper nests in abundance Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Rifles are handy in a setting with ready made sniper nests in abundance I don't know if you been to Florida but most our buildings are at best two stories high and if you dare lay upon them you will be scalded to death. 1 I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) Wow, I just watched this. This was just a little over a week ago. The part where is says the FBI can identify people to put on the no fly list, but they can't stop them from going into a store and buying unlimited armaments. Edited June 14, 2016 by Hurlshot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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