Should the UK leave the EU?

[Raithe]

Remember Bruce, Europe is a very big case of "me against my brother, my brother and I against the world..." just with a lot more underhanded chicanery going on.  And a few cousins that somehow got married.

[ShadySands]

I hope they vote to leave

 

I have no skin in this game but I'm curious to see what would happen if they left

[BruceVC]

I hope they vote to leave

 

I have no skin in this game but I'm curious to see what would happen if they left

Well I hope you  not expecting something really dramatic ....like the UK invading Europe 

 

 

I reckon for someone living in the USA the only noticable development you will notice is the Pound getting weaker for about 12 months or so ?

[JadedWolf]

Remember Bruce, Europe is a very big case of "me against my brother, my brother and I against the world..." just with a lot more underhanded chicanery going on.  And a few cousins that somehow got married.

 

 

Just to add to this: consider that in my small country, I can travel a few hundred kilometers to the north, east or south, and end up in places within my own country where the local dialects are like languages of their own, which I wouldn't even be able to understand. And these people with their own dialects feel closer to each other than to people elsewhere in the country. I mean, we have Friesland, which has a language of its own, and then we have Limburg where the citizens of one town can speak a completely different form of their dialect than the next. Limburg is also the youngest of our provinces (edit: with exception of Flevoland, which is a completely new polder).

 

Its capital, Maastricht actually joined in the rebellion that would later divide the short lived Kingdom of the Netherlands into north and south. The only thing that kept the city in Dutch hands was the presence of a Dutch garrison under its commander Dibbets.

 

It is said that the inhabitants of Maastricht were still pissing on the commander's grave long afterwards.

 

Some Dutch in the north still refer to Limburg (and to a lesser extent Noord-Brabant) as "reserve Belgium".

 

And this is just my tiny little country...

Edited June 20, 2016 by JadedWolf

[Raithe]

Heh. and then I run into a big editorial over how if Britain votes leave, it could lead to Trump winning the US Election.  Is this scare tactics run wild?

[Valsuelm]

 

 

Terrific. If i was briton, i would be more than ever convinced to leave the EU. It's like a textbook example on reverse psychology.

 

 

Your comment made me watch, despite me thinking beforehand 'Gee, I'll wager this occasionally mildly amusing useful idiot commie/globalist pawn assclown is going to be pro EU, and will attempt to comically poop all over the idea of leaving it.'

 

Yup, sadly predictable. Sad, because so many unintelligents get their information from him. Predictable, because he's a commie/globalist mouthpiece, and pretty much always falls in line with those agendas.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Valsuelm

[Valsuelm]

One of the interesting quirks I've noted of late, is the push to say that the Leave campaign is anti-globalisation. Now, while a chunk of the Leave do seem to contain a bunch of xenophobic isolationists, a whole batch of the Leave campaign has been pushing on the idea that once we're out of the EU we'll be able to have better trade relations and connections with the world at large outside of Europe. Now, is it me, but isn't that actually kind of pro-globalisation?

 

The question of whether Brexit is/isn't pro-globalisation isn't an easy one to answer. On the surface it's anti-globalist. But the whole thing can be finagled to be fit the agenda when all is said and done. At the end of the day, if the Brits vote to leave the EU, it might be a might setback to the globalist agenda, or it might not. I can personally see a number of scenarios play out. If 'Brexit' happens, what happens next will matter a lot, and is currently largely unknown, at least publicly.

 

Rest assured, bets are certainly hedged.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Valsuelm

[Valsuelm]

I hope they vote to leave

 

I have no skin in this game but I'm curious to see what would happen if they left

 

There are few, if any people on earth, who don't have some skin in the game of what happens in the EU. Some of course have more skin, but what happens there has great potential to reverberate everywhere. I'd say the 'Brexit' vote potentially matters more (especially if the leave vote wins) on an international scale than any U.S. Presidential election (the one many traditionally think matters a great deal internationally) has in at least 70 years.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Valsuelm

[Zoraptor]

One of the interesting quirks I've noted of late, is the push to say that the Leave campaign is anti-globalisation. Now, while a chunk of the Leave do seem to contain a bunch of xenophobic isolationists, a whole batch of the Leave campaign has been pushing on the idea that once we're out of the EU we'll be able to have better trade relations and connections with the world at large outside of Europe. Now, is it me, but isn't that actually kind of pro-globalisation?

 

Yep. I think India was the example I heard being suggested as a post brexit trade target that would be hard to impossible under the EU. It's also kind of telling who is supporting the stay side- basically all the status quo corporates who have been lobbying extensively for deals like TTIP in Brussels. The small business side is far more divided.

 

Then again, I'd pretty much definitely be voting leave if I were still in the UK.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Terrific. If i was briton, i would be more than ever convinced to leave the EU. It's like a textbook example on reverse psychology.

 

 

lol

Edited June 20, 2016 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Orogun01]

I hope they vote to leave

 

I have no skin in this game but I'm curious to see what would happen if they left

I'm in the same camp but because I'm against globalism. It is communism for the capitalist elite and against the interests of nations, which cloaks itself in liberal policies that pretend or intent to do go but end up hurting the countries that have to obey those policies. This whole far right rise in Europe is just the rightful result of failed leftist policies that have put foreign interests ahead of national interests.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

I hope they vote to leave

 

I have no skin in this game but I'm curious to see what would happen if they left

 

I'm in the same camp but because I'm against globalism. It is communism for the capitalist elite and against the interests of nations, which cloaks itself in liberal policies that pretend or intent to do go but end up hurting the countries that have to obey those policies.

So Global Capitalism is actually Communism? Bro you high or something?

[Orogun01]

 

 

I hope they vote to leave

 

I have no skin in this game but I'm curious to see what would happen if they left

I'm in the same camp but because I'm against globalism. It is communism for the capitalist elite and against the interests of nations, which cloaks itself in liberal policies that pretend or intent to do go but end up hurting the countries that have to obey those policies.

So Global Capitalism is actually Communism? Bro you high or something?

 

Communist ideology turns into a kind of socialism that promotes the spread of socialism throughout nations. It puts globalism and global interests ahead of national interests but instead of being the state that directs it, it's private entities.

[Elerond]

 

 

 

I hope they vote to leave

 

I have no skin in this game but I'm curious to see what would happen if they left

I'm in the same camp but because I'm against globalism. It is communism for the capitalist elite and against the interests of nations, which cloaks itself in liberal policies that pretend or intent to do go but end up hurting the countries that have to obey those policies.

So Global Capitalism is actually Communism? Bro you high or something?

 

Communist ideology turns into a kind of socialism that promotes the spread of socialism throughout nations. It puts globalism and global interests ahead of national interests but instead of being the state that directs it, it's private entities.

 

 

That is the thing that differentiate capitalism from socialism/communism. It is all about who is in the control of things.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Communist ideology turns into a kind of socialism that promotes the spread of socialism throughout nations.

Communist ideology is socialism mate. It seeks to spread socialism globally because it sees Capitalism as a global system, which it is.

 

It puts globalism and global interests ahead of national interests but instead of being the state that directs it, it's private entities.

What you're describing is Capitalism being Capitalism. Its entire purpose is to grow wealth for the owners of production and the best way to do that is to move production to where it is cheapest and sell goods to as many markets as possible. The purpose of these recent T trade agreements and the EU is to provide a common set of standards that makes trade for these owners easier. It's about as communist as breaking into your neighbor's house to sniff her panties is, in that it isn't.

[Orogun01]

 

Communist ideology turns into a kind of socialism that promotes the spread of socialism throughout nations.

Communist ideology is socialism mate. It seeks to spread socialism globally because it sees Capitalism as a global system, which it is.

 

It puts globalism and global interests ahead of national interests but instead of being the state that directs it, it's private entities.

What you're describing is Capitalism being Capitalism. Its entire purpose is to grow wealth for the owners of production and the best way to do that is to move production to where it is cheapest and sell goods to as many markets as possible. The purpose of these recent T trade agreements and the EU is to provide a common set of standards that makes trade for these owners easier. It's about as communist as breaking into your neighbor's house to sniff her panties is, in that it isn't.

 

There are different variations of Capitalism which aren't globalist and have restrictions in order to promote free trade. I don't equate Globalism and Capitalism although I do know that the former is a result of the latter. There is also the matter of money in politics which uses multilateralism to force laws that violate national sovereignty and are aggressive in nature. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

There are different variations of Capitalism which aren't globalist and have restrictions in order to promote free trade.

I don't care about Snowflake Capitalism that could maybe be. I care about the Global Capitalism that is the economic order of the world, which is fundamentally globalist in nature.

There is also the matter of money in politics which uses multilateralism to force laws that violate national sovereignty and are aggressive in nature.

And why is that a problem because powerful private interests want to further their interests. That is what today's global capitalism is, if the EU would collapse tomorrow and with it all the trade stuff the same powerful private interests would simply construct a new organ system to protect and further their interests. As long as those private interests exist you're going to see such measures being pushed because it would be idiotic for them not to.

Edited June 21, 2016 by KaineParker

[Chilloutman]

from my experience there is very small difference between 'Capitalism' and Communism

 

I work in corporation and its same propaganda/motivation/speeches/posters as commies done, but instead of well being of all people/nation/union its about well being of 'insert name of company you are working in'. And results are same - in the end only few people profit from it. So yeah, capitalism works well with smalll business, big players don't need/want it

[WDeranged]

[IndiraLightfoot]

from my experience there is very small difference between 'Capitalism' and Communism

 

I work in corporation and its same propaganda/motivation/speeches/posters as commies done, but instead of well being of all people/nation/union its about well being of 'insert name of company you are working in'. And results are same - in the end only few people profit from it. So yeah, capitalism works well with smalll business, big players don't need/want it

Truer words than this are hard to find, methinks.

[Raithe]

[Raithe]

Snerk.

 

(and no, I haven't fully decided just yet)

 

[Zoraptor]

Surely the pigs would vote out, since that way it would be Dave that is well and truly asterisked this time?

 

(Suppose I could work in an allusion to 'Animal Farm' to counter 'Lord of the Flies', but lazy)

[Nonek]

Have to admit i'm still on the fence, yes I don't trust the unelected officials of Brussels, but on the other hand I most certainly don't trust the elected representatives of Westminster, especially when they have no one looking over their shoulder.

 

Ideally as others have said i'd vote for, "Go back to being a trade block." False binary decisions really rub my rhubarb.

[JadedWolf]

I almost feel sorry for the British, both the Remain and the Brexit camps are loathsome and contemptible, and they are both thoroughly British.

 

Whether you vote for Brexit or not, you guys really need to clean up your political landscape.