except that polytheism was in reality (earth) pretty rad.

[mc_kracken]

the way the "gods" on eora are handled, you'd think that people are better off without them =

they breed fanatics, they create strife, warfare, missionaries and the inquisition - when in reality these are all clearly associated with Monotheism - Allah, Jehova and so forth.

 

"Qualities" that very much LARGELY came into existence with the advent of Monotheism.

 

I myself dont believe in the greek God's, as such but I do harbor a romantic obligation towards them as idea and what it inspired in people. Homer, Phidias, Praxiteles and so forth. But really every ancient culture with more than one god was WAY more tolerant of one another with different viewpoint's. (god's) At the very least, but never limited, when it came to religion.

 

So yeah, I can't stand the concept / invention of Jehova and Allah and all it entails to this very day.

Edited April 12, 2016 by mc_kracken

[anameforobsidian]

A post this vague can't help but be wrong.  Reddit does it better than I can.

 

- Socrates was literally killed after being charged with impiety.  This happens to multiple philosophers.

- Religious wars have been common throughout history.  The early Assyrians are a great example of this.  It's worth pointing out that the earliest priests were normally tools of the ruling monarch, and the monarch was a quasi-theocrat, so literally all of their actions were sanctioned (sometimes ex post facto) by state religions.  Sargon certainly did this.

- One thing is that there's a fair bit of evidence that early Jews were monalatrists.  (One of the most famous is "no other gods before me")  I.E. monotheism didn't just spring full-formed from the head of Abraham.  The separation between monotheism and and polytheism is arbitrary in a sense, because the monotheism came from a polytheistic system.

- Norse mythology is very violent, and the way they treated people was sanctioned by their religion.

- I find it hard to blame monotheism for extreme Hindu nationalism, which has resulted in holy wars, and other religious intolerance.

- Polytheistic religions in regions that had no interaction whatsoever with Monotheists could still engage in ritual wars.  

[Tigranes]

If we consider the well known variants like the Ancient Greco-Roman pantheons, the very meaning of divinity, what a God expected of its faithful, how people thought of 'morals' in terms of God, etc., etc. was very, very different. Single god vs. many gods is not really the point of differentiation. What you're implicitly referring to is the Judeo-Christian tradition, really. And yes, that's what POE takes off in a lot of ways too, since for most people in Western modernity now it is very difficult to imagine a different kind of religion.

[MaxQuest]

So, to conclude, it's not about mono or polytheism, it's about people being violent ****

Edited April 13, 2016 by MaxQuest

[JerekKruger]

In the Iliad the gods take sides in the Trojan war, sometimes literally. I think it's safe to say they weren't jolly friendly chaps.

Edited April 13, 2016 by JerekKruger

[mc_kracken]

A post this vague can't help but be wrong.  Reddit does it better than I can.

 

- Socrates was literally killed after being charged with impiety.  This happens to multiple philosophers.

- Religious wars have been common throughout history.  The early Assyrians are a great example of this.  It's worth pointing out that the earliest priests were normally tools of the ruling monarch, and the monarch was a quasi-theocrat, so literally all of their actions were sanctioned (sometimes ex post facto) by state religions.  Sargon certainly did this.

- One thing is that there's a fair bit of evidence that early Jews were monalatrists.  (One of the most famous is "no other gods before me")  I.E. monotheism didn't just spring full-formed from the head of Abraham.  The separation between monotheism and and polytheism is arbitrary in a sense, because the monotheism came from a polytheistic system.

- Norse mythology is very violent, and the way they treated people was sanctioned by their religion.

- I find it hard to blame monotheism for extreme Hindu nationalism, which has resulted in holy wars, and other religious intolerance.

- Polytheistic religions in regions that had no interaction whatsoever with Monotheists could still engage in ritual wars.  

 

very weak points to showcase. (and it took you and google a long time to find those)

 

just address some (because lazy) Socrates rather commited suicide, his death was immediately lamented afterwards. Platon was critical of the gods, Aristoteles as well. There was no scroll burning, philosophy was cherished.

 

To understand the Hindu Extremism today, one has to look at the really brutal muslim conquest (attempts) that was going on for centuries there (not to mention all the other invaders before and after). the Viking sacrifices were animals.

 

But really, I could spend hours and give you thousands of examples of monotheistic bull**** people had to endure (when they didnt kill them outright) these major offenders alone should really end this debate from my end:

 

The muslim conquest's: Over hundreds of years - you'd either convert to Islam or be screwed (socially and economically)

Cultural destruction of entire civilisations and partial genocide in the whole of North and Southamerica: Missionaries "burning Books" and the Natives. And lastly, the cultural eradication of antiquity (which resulted in the crappy dark ages) including forced conversions in the millions, again book burning.

 

But mostly it sucks that we have these problems in 2016. If you go online in Bangladesh or Pakistan and say Allah doesnt exist, you have a cleaver in your back the next morning....really to even write all this....man, stop looking at reddit and open some history books...

Edited April 13, 2016 by mc_kracken

[anameforobsidian]

 

A post this vague can't help but be wrong.  Reddit does it better than I can.

 

- Socrates was literally killed after being charged with impiety.  This happens to multiple philosophers.

- Religious wars have been common throughout history.  The early Assyrians are a great example of this.  It's worth pointing out that the earliest priests were normally tools of the ruling monarch, and the monarch was a quasi-theocrat, so literally all of their actions were sanctioned (sometimes ex post facto) by state religions.  Sargon certainly did this.

- One thing is that there's a fair bit of evidence that early Jews were monalatrists.  (One of the most famous is "no other gods before me")  I.E. monotheism didn't just spring full-formed from the head of Abraham.  The separation between monotheism and and polytheism is arbitrary in a sense, because the monotheism came from a polytheistic system.

- Norse mythology is very violent, and the way they treated people was sanctioned by their religion.

- I find it hard to blame monotheism for extreme Hindu nationalism, which has resulted in holy wars, and other religious intolerance.

- Polytheistic religions in regions that had no interaction whatsoever with Monotheists could still engage in ritual wars.  

 

very weak points to showcase. (and it took you and google a long time to find those)

 

just address some (because lazy) Socrates rather commited suicide, his death was immediately lamented afterwards. Platon was critical of the gods, Aristoteles as well. There was no scroll burning, philosophy was cherished.

 

To understand the Hindu Extremism today, one has to look at the really brutal muslim conquest (attempts) that was going on for centuries there (not to mention all the other invaders before and after). the Viking sacrifices were animals.

 

But really, I could spend hours and give you thousands of examples of monotheistic bull**** people had to endure (when they didnt kill them outright) these major offenders alone should really end this debate from my end:

 

man, stop looking at reddit and open some history books...

 

 

Speaking of lazy posts, read the links next time troll.  Or maybe bother to fact check your own points before posting.

 

Socrates had a choice between suicide and exile, for his beliefs.  He didn't just decide to go out to the store and buy his favorite hemlock flavored koolaid.  And there's literally a link right after showing another philosopher charged with impiety.

Yes, there were violent religious conflicts in Hinduism before Muslims ever showed up.  With an explicit mention of scroll-burning.

The viking link has multiple examples of human sacrifices, here's an academic  site saying the same thing.

 

And yes, I've read history books.  I have a Masters in History and teach it daily; it focused more on Economic History and Cold War History, but I still took Western Civ, History of the Middle East, and a Classics course.  I'm also an atheist who had to read the Bible chapter and verse in Catholic primary school.  I won't sanitize the crimes in the Bible; it lauds genocide and murder repeatedly.  Islam also didn't spread with pamphlets and puppies.  However, I won't misstate the evidence just to fit my own views.

 

The evidence repeatedly shows that religion has virtually always and everywhere been a way to legitimize the current authority.  This is true from the Fascist pact with the Catholic Church, to the quasi-deific leaders of Egypt.  Authority has always done nasty things to stay in power.  The Inca had nasty internecine war; the Aztecs ritualized war; Spartans supposedly had tons of secret cults and treated their slaves very nastily; and the Assyrians damn near fetishized war.  There weren't barrel fulls of pacifist polytheistic priests damning the participants left and right.  Most of these societies had reputations for being pious.

 

Yes, religions have been used to start wars, especially evangelizing ones.  But blaming monotheistic religions for an unrealistic share of strife, fanaticism, and warfare is ridiculous.  Your arguments in this thread, as well as others, show a lack of context, credibility, and intelligence.

Edited April 13, 2016 by anameforobsidian

[mc_kracken]

yeah, i see when youre out of arguments you call people troll.

 

I clicked on that link ancient india just to see what kind of facts youve got there.

Ashoka was buddhist - Theravada Buddishm, doesnt have a god, but it was about a single  figure (see interpretation/sucession wars regarding Muhammed!!) so this doesnt exactly help your theory...plus the persecution of those 18000 might actually be fabricated nonsense..and later it says: "The existence of religious violence between Hinduism and Buddhism, in ancient India, has been disputed"

 

now please excuse me while i put you on my personal ignore.

Edited April 14, 2016 by mc_kracken

[JerekKruger]

Ashoka was buddhist - Theravada Buddishm, doesnt have a god, but it was about a single  figure (see interpretation/sucession wars regarding Muhammed!!) so this doesnt exactly help your theory...plus the persecution of those 18000 might actually be fabricated nonsense..and later it says: "The existence of religious violence between Hinduism and Buddhism, in ancient India, has been disputed"

 

Ashoka converted to Buddhism after his conquests, before that he was Hindu (well, there wasn't really such a thing as Hinduism but he would have followed one of the many traditions that the British would later clump together under the name Hinduism).

[mc_kracken]

I think the one scene in Monty Pyhton's the "life of Brian" sums it best up for me:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9foi342LXQE

(what have the romans ever done for us?)

 

Related: Masada Fortress 'End Resolution' There was no need to kill hundreds of women and children, because god told you so, it would have been sufficient to NOT badmouth the emperor. That goes for the whole situation there for centuries.

 

But only a single god breeds religious fanatics like rabbits. It's inherent in the nature of the system. That can't be disputed.

Edited April 14, 2016 by mc_kracken

[Sannom]

Between the islamophobia, anti-semitism and obvious bad faith, I'm going to call the OP a troll and not bother answering him.

 

Thanks to anameforobsidian for the history lesson though.

[JerekKruger]

That can't be disputed.

 

Except quite clearly it can since it is being disputed.

[mc_kracken]

Between the islamophobia, anti-semitism and obvious bad faith, I'm going to call the OP a troll and not bother answering him.

 

Thanks to anameforobsidian for the history lesson though.

 

and thanks to you for the laugh.

[Teioh_White]

I mean, the initial post was pretty much just a 'Hey, just letting you all know, put me on Ignore, kay?' Waaay too obvious in the troll attempt.

[rheingold]

One God or many.... Still one to many...

God or gods are the problem. Or more precisely people worshipping god/gods without applying themselves are the problem.

[JerekKruger]

One God or many.... Still one to many...

God or gods are the problem. Or more precisely people worshipping god/gods without applying themselves are the problem.

 

I tend to agree, although I think the real problem are powerful people using the masses belief in a God or gods to justify doing terrible things.

[Sannom]

and thanks to you for the laugh.

You're welcome!

[rheingold]

 

One God or many.... Still one to many...

God or gods are the problem. Or more precisely people worshipping god/gods without applying themselves are the problem.

 

 

I tend to agree, although I think the real problem are powerful people using the masses belief in a God or gods to justify doing terrible things.

Absolutely, the chances of Thor/Woden or Yahweh actually existing are pretty minimal - and yeah, religion is the perfect weapon for controlling groups of people. In fact, it may have even served some sort of evolutionary purpose in the past. It's great for sorting people into "us and them" groups. Which in our distant past could have been important. After all evolution is not just about competition amongst species but also between the individuals in a species. Which may explain why it works awesomely well splitting people apart.

And the best thing.... You can never ever question it.

[gkathellar]

Come on, OP. If you want to pull a brimsurfer, you've gotta take it seriously. Troll smarter, not harder.

[EtherGun]

What if the gods of Eora are all faces on one god???

What if they are pieces of one soul, the soul of the world?????

[Vorad]

@OP troll: Don't comment on Hellenic philosophers if you are totally clueless. Socrates was sentenced to death and forced to consume poison he did not "commit" suicide he was forced to take the poison. The verdict of the joke trial was: 1) Enemy of Athenian Democracy, 2) Corrupter of youth and 3) Indoctrination on new divinity(preaching about new "gods"). For all these 3 charges he was "found" guilty (with fake witnesses) on a farce of a "trial". Do not talk about other people's ancestors and historical figures if you got no clue or ties whatsoever to begin with. You don't even know our language let alone our ancient history and philosophy. If you have to use propaganda to enforce your joke beliefs about a game like PoE and in doing so if you have to "quote" historical figures and distort their teaching to enforce your point of view( a basic trick of propaganda) then do so with personalities from your own culture at least.

 

Now back off, I'm reporting this trash thread.

[rheingold]

Yeah not sure it's appropriate to be discussing religion and extremism that happens today in a gaming forum. But to the OP, fundamentalism and extremism are the problems with religion today BUT it is in no way just an Islamic problem. Christianity, Judaism, in fact every damn religion since Babylon has had these problems. Religious extremism has never been and is not confined to one particular race or creed.

[mc_kracken]

"BUT it is in no way just an Islamic problem. Christianity, Judaism, in fact every damn religion since Babylon has had these problems"

 

yeah, its pretty much the introduction of a single god that turned a lot of people into raving lunatics to this very day.

(see forum replies here, hehe) 

Edited April 17, 2016 by mc_kracken

[rheingold]

Single god..... Seriously. It's nothing to do with single or multiple gods and everything to do with interpretation, power and corruption.

God or gods and people using them for their own purposes are the problem.

And with that I'm outta this troll thread.

[mc_kracken]

Single god..... Seriously. It's nothing to do with single or multiple gods and everything to do with interpretation, power and corruption.

God or gods and people using them for their own purposes are the problem.

And with that I'm outta this troll thread.

It's got everything to do with single or multiple gods.

Ask the Islamic State. (or read the koran, tora and the bible)

 

oops, probably not Pc enough for the pc morons here...

Edited April 17, 2016 by mc_kracken