Obsidian's creative direaction

[Jojobobo]

So here's a thread where if you could have any say in what Obsidian's creative direction would be what would you say? This is of course not saying that Obsidian even need direction in the first place, but if you'd like to direct them where would you like them to go. Think about all their projects past and present when you post, and if you have relevant experience with any that's pertinent to what you're saying that would be great. Ultimately we can be their free think-tank, any costs we can save for our lofty service then can go on future properties or developments   To give a little background of their games I've played it's Icewind Dale 2, Fallout: New Vegas and Pillars of Eternity. Of their games I'd still happily play that I don't own yet - Alpha Protocol, South Park: The Stick of Truth and KoTOR 2.

 

For Icewind Dale 2 I'll keep it short - I'd never played a DnD game before so I bloody loved it when I was young. I still haven't dipped too far into the DnD repertoire (despite having Baldur's Gate 2 and Plane of Torment available on GoG purchased and ready to play right here right now - I apologise for life getting in the way before you stone me) but having played IDW2 on Heart of Iron mode level 1 was still very damn fun.

 

For Fallout: New Vegas - for me it's the best Fallout game hands down. As a 90's child, Fallout 3 was got me into the franchise. However FO:NV got me to first of all play it and play 1 and 2 which I loved (being an already certified Arcanum and Vampire the Masquerade ~ Bloodlines fanboy, and buying both on release). FO4 is lackluster, not to want to bash it but it fundamentally strips players of choice. If I wanted to be playing Diablo III I would be, FO4 now feels like Diablo III's and FO's unwanted love child.

 

New Vegas was the last point where factions were meaty and bold, and had something relevant to reflect on modern society, and allowed a huge deal of player agency. It may be my favourite game of all time depending on what mood I'm in when you ask me. Dead Money has to be my favourite expansion/DLC of all time, what an incomprehensibly ballsy and yet welcome change of pace.

 

Lastly, Pillars of Eternity by all accounts gave the company a new lease of life. But more than that, in these latest patch iterations I think it's a great game. It combines the party play of the old DnD franchises with meaty roleplaying. Considering game mechanics and more or less everything was built from the ground up, the game is a complete wonder even when you factor in the crowd-fundedness of it.

 

Tyranny I think is solid choice and a banker, I for one will be buying it based on how polished PoE now is and that they're working with the game engine. Many other semi-hardcore gamers are going to do the same. It's a great way of re-purposing assets that are well now well established to produce the same experience for players who want it - of which there's a lot.

 

For me now, I want them to produce some sort of AAA title to rival the big boys. They clearly have the chops given New Vegas, and whether they use Paradox's new White Wolf rights or anything else I think they have the ability to create an excellent AAA first person experience. Then, once that's in the bag, they keep on publishing those great AAA single player RPG experiences but now have money to monopolise on fantastic isometric games on the side.

 

Thoughts and/or experiences on the existing state of the company?

[Marceror]

Direaction - that's great

 

It's like direction, dire action and di reaction all got together for some sweet, sweet lovin'.

[Jojobobo]

I'd appreciate if a mod would just delete this thread. Thank you to the first poster, for shutting it down off the bat for a miss-key. I'm currently of the salted-earth mentality - if someone wants to query the same thing then go ahead but I'm already done and bored. Teach me for venturing out of the PoE threads.

 

Literally, can a mod delete this.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Marceror]

Oh come on man. I was just playing around. I'm not sure how this translates to me "shutting down" your thread.

 

Certainly didn't mean to knock the wind out of your sails.

 

EDIT

 

Actually on topic, I hope that Obsidian will get to do a follow up to New Vegas, because I think that would be great for the studio.

 

I don't really play FPS type games myself, but I can still appreciate how this would be great for Obsidian overall.

 

Personally, I'm hoping to see a lot of CRPGs developed using the "PoE engine" (I'm not sure that is technically a thing, hence the quotes) in the coming years.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Marceror

[Blodhemn]

I'm sure Obsidian would love to do another AAA title, it's just a matter of opportunity. They're strictly guns for hire and unable to finance this sort of venture on their own. My biggest gaming hope is that Activision(or another company but Activision seems most logical) will partner with Paradox for a Bloodlines sequel in first person AAA glory with Obsidian at the helm and some freelancers from the original game. Too much to ask for? Probably, but just the idea is more stimulating than the majority of the current gaming landscape.

[Oerwinde]

If Obsidian could get to the point where they could work on 3 games at a time on 3 year cycles that would be ideal. One AAA big publisher gig, one smaller publisher gig like Tyranny, and one self/crowd funded gig where they own the property. Maybe collaborate with inXile on a big self funded project where they could share the costs and talent.

[kanisatha]

If Obsidian could get to the point where they could work on 3 games at a time on 3 year cycles that would be ideal. One AAA big publisher gig, one smaller publisher gig like Tyranny, and one self/crowd funded gig where they own the property. Maybe collaborate with inXile on a big self funded project where they could share the costs and talent.

So this. Obsidian needs to have their equivalent of The Elder Scrolls/Dragon Age/Witcher to be considered one of the premier game development studios. But since I don't care for vampire games I'd rather such a game didn't use the WoD setting. I think they could make a AAA first-person open-world RPG using their Pathfinder license, with lots of modding freedom built in so that we would continuously get both user-created and professionally developed modules for the game for many years thereafter. This, then, would have the added benefit of genuinely being promotable as the "spiritual successor" to the NwN games.

[Oerwinde]

I don't know why NWN2 didn't take off in terms of the modules. I felt the toolset was able to make much better areas than NWN, and NWN2 had a better campaign

[Infinitron]

Icewind Dale 2 isn't an Obsidian game. Is this thread about Josh Sawyer's creative direction?

Edited April 3, 2016 by Infinitron

[Vaeliorin]

I don't know why NWN2 didn't take off in terms of the modules. I felt the toolset was able to make much better areas than NWN, and NWN2 had a better campaign

It was much, much harder to make good areas in the NWN2 toolset. Even someone like myself, with basically no artistic talent, could make decent areas in the NWN1 toolset with a little effort, but it was all but impossible for me to make anything I didn't hate using the NWN2 toolset.

[RingMachine]

I'd like Obsidian to actually be innovative again, like in their 2007-2010 glory days. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem like something Feargus they would want to do right now.

[Blodhemn]

Stick of Truth is a much, much better game than NWN2, though. Up until that point NWN2 was one of the worst mainstream games I'd played, and yet somehow people are still interested in that generic fantasy realm. Mind boggling.

[Gorth]

Stick of Truth is a much, much better game than NWN2, though. Up until that point NWN2 was one of the worst mainstream games I'd played, and yet somehow people are still interested in that generic fantasy realm. Mind boggling.

NWN2 isn't the worst mainstream game I've played, but the original campaign was as bad a mix of up and downs as mass effect 3. Some very good parts, some very dire parts (the UFO Enemy Unknown remake probably holds the title of worst "mainstream" game played the last 5 years for me).

 

As for Obsidian, I think (as in entirely subjective) they are better off betting on all horses. Being an independent studio without gold egg laying hens, they need those games that sells mixed with those they desire to make for other reasons than the entirely financial considerations.

 

I.e. keep pitching titles to major publishers, smaller publishers and hopefully a few more self funded smaller titles until they might be able to self fund more ambitious titles. Not sure how they would pull off the latter without losing their identity though, as mass appeal usually means a lot of compromise in the creative direction.

[Oerwinde]

The more self funded stuff they get under their belt, the more long term income they get, builds kind of a safety net for slow periods, so hopefully they can get a few more out.

[Tigranes]

I'd like Obsidian to actually be innovative again, like in their 2007-2010 glory days. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem like something Feargus they would want to do right now.

 

People talk like Obsidian or other companies sit in a room and go "say folks, why don't we do something innovative like the old times?" "No, old chap, I just can't be arsed right now". 

 

Important point that applies to almost every independent game developer except, say, Blizzard: because of the industry's exploitative model, every single one is perpetually on the brink of bankruptcy and closure, and they can never escape the cycle unless they happen to hit a super jackpot on a game they somehow funded without publishers (e.g. POE selling 10 million). This is because, to put it briefly, publishers pay developers just enough money to pay the bills while making the game, and then if they're lucky get a small one-time bonus for the sales. So it is always hand to mouth and even after making multiple critically acclaimed multi-million selling games, you are still broke, and the moment some publisher cancels your next game due to a "change of strategy away from PC gaming" or something, you have to lay people off and even shut your doors. 

 

Obsidian's strategy was pretty clear coming into 2010-2012: always be making at least one AAA game and one original IP game (the two could be one and the same game), while exploring smaller budget productions as well. It only took one or two cancellations / failed pitches to bring the entire company to near bankruptcy - which, again, would be the case with every other company. The poor sales for Alpha Protocol, that means we currently have no Obsidian IP other than POE, and the cancellations / failed pitches mean that the only AAA-ish games Obsidian has produced recently have actually been smaller, safe bet projects like South Park and Dungeon Siege 3 (both of which were profitable ventures for everybody involved). And they need to do stuff like Armoured Warfare to avoid laying people off.

 

I would love to see Obsidian resuscitate their strategy, but doing so while staying true to their core strengths. Alpha Protocol is one of my favourite games, but a studio which always struggles to produce easy-flowing gameplay was kidding themselves trying to tackle a shooter-RPG hybrid, and the same goes for DS3's action-RPGs, which is a subgenre that depends entirely on pacing, flow, and other visceral factors. A major console-PC AAA RPG, whether their own IP  or somebody else's, that continues Obsidian's reputation as "your big name RPG, only smarter and less durr hurr power fantasy", combined with the continuation of the POE franchise and then other middle-level projects that diverge slightly from the old school RPG formula. But again, that depends on Microsoft or somebody accepting such a pitch, knowing that such games sell 1-4 million and not 10, and not canceling it because their head of division just left and the new one wants to focus on mobiles and angry birds, or something.

[RingMachine]

-snip- 

 

 

 

1. "Important point that applies to almost every independent game developer except, say, Blizzard: because of the industry's exploitative model, every single one is perpetually on the brink of bankruptcy and closure, and they can never escape the cycle unless they happen to hit a super jackpot on a game they somehow funded without publishers (e.g. POE selling 10 million). This is because, to put it briefly, publishers pay developers just enough money to pay the bills while making the game, and then if they're lucky get a small one-time bonus for the sales. So it is always hand to mouth and even after making multiple critically acclaimed multi-million selling games, you are still broke, and the moment some publisher cancels your next game due to a "change of strategy away from PC gaming" or something, you have to lay people off and even shut your doors."

 

That's not my point. There are plenty of independent game developers out there right now, and, while maybe not completely financially stable, are still putting out great games. Example: Frictional Games. Frictional is a company that was founded exactly 10 years ago that is putting out one ambitious game after another. While initially they had to get publishing deals for support (while also enduring the headaches associated with them), they later moved on to publish their games on their own. This resulted in two of the greatest horror games of all time, Amnesia and SOMA. Not only that, they are also built on a gorgeous 3D engine.

 

One notable difference between these games and Obsidian's is that they're an original property which are owned by their original creators. One of Obsidian's greatest weaknesses (which also proved to be one reason of its [quality] downfall), is that they waste their best ideas on other people's IPs. (I mean, seriously, does KOTOR2 feel like a Star Wars game? Does MotB feel like a Neverwinter Nights game?) They are moving away from this with Tyranny, but unfortunately that IP seems to be owned by Paradox, which won't help Obsidian much.

 

Another good example is CD Projekt RED. They started out with the video game version of The Witcher. Fast-forward 8 years later: They are one of the most well-loved video game studios in the world and The Witcher 3 is hailed by a huge amount of people as the best open-world RPG of all time.

 

I could go on with a bunch of other examples, but I think you get the gist of it. My point is that Obsidian has played its cards horribly over the years. Instead of focusing on putting out fresh and original games with a small staff, Feargus and the gang decided to go all-in and hire as much personnel as they could. The result? An atrocious amount of cancelled and/or badly managed projects. To be honest, I don't think releasing great games has been Obsidian's priority for a couple of years now. They're currently focusing on getting as much money as they can. IMO, ambition should always be the #1 priority for any great video game developer.

 

2. "It only took one or two cancellations / failed pitches to bring the entire company to near bankruptcy - which, again, would be the case with every other company."

 

One or two?

 

1. The Snow White RPG.

2. Aliens: Crucible.

3. Stormlands.

4. Baldur's Gate sequel.

5. Backspace.

 

That's only the cancelled projects, not including the failed pitches, nor Alpha Protocol basically becoming an entirely different game (narratively) half-way through development. How so many projects can be so badly mismanaged is completely beyond me. This isn't simply a sign of an independent company struggling to get by, this is a sign of a company that doesn't have any idea what it's doing or trying to do. As a result of this, most all of the noteworthy Obsidian writers have left the company. Brian Mitsoda left because the projects he headed were either cancelled or completely re-written, and George Ziets was laid off because of the Stormlands cancellation. (By the way, this one still baffles me. I have no idea how out of all the Obsidian employees they had, they decided it would be best to lay off Ziets, who was the second most acclaimed writer at Obsidian.)

 

3. "The poor sales for Alpha Protocol, that means we currently have no Obsidian IP other than POE, and the cancellations / failed pitches mean that the only AAA-ish games Obsidian has produced recently have actually been smaller, safe bet projects like South Park and Dungeon Siege 3 (both of which were profitable ventures for everybody involved). And they need to do stuff like Armoured Warfare to avoid laying people off."

 

South Park and DS3 actually started around 2009, before Obsidian really started getting into desperate maneuvers mode. And doing stuff like Armored Warfare to "avoid laying people off" is a bit too much when it is taking up literally half of your workforce. And then there's a bunch of people who are working on a goddamn tablet game. And then there's another bunch of people who are working on a westernization of a Russian MMO. Really, the overabundance of staff at Obsidian is all on Feargus's and co.'s shoulders. They're the ones who got the company into this mess.

 

4. "But again, that depends on Microsoft or somebody accepting such a pitch, knowing that such games sell 1-4 million and not 10, and not canceling it because their head of division just left and the new one wants to focus on mobiles and angry birds, or something."

 

There's a problem there though. Barely any big-name publishers want to fund developers who aren't in-house nowadays. Especially not developers with Obsidian's reputation. Obsidian needs to start to learn to fend for itself.

 

TL;DR Obsidian is a shadow of its former self and it's too late to fix it now.

[Infinitron]

Fairfax, is that you?

Edited April 4, 2016 by Infinitron

[Zoraptor]

 

 

That's not my point. There are plenty of independent game developers out there right now, and, while maybe not completely financially stable, are still putting out great games. Example: Frictional Games. Frictional is a company that was founded exactly 10 years ago that is putting out one ambitious game after another. While initially they had to get publishing deals for support (while also enduring the headaches associated with them), they later moved on to publish their games on their own. This resulted in two of the greatest horror games of all time, Amnesia and SOMA. Not only that, they are also built on a gorgeous 3D engine.

 

 

While Frictional make good games they are neither ambitious nor innovative. For ten years they have focused on and do one single genre well, from Penumbra to Amnesia to SOMA. That's a conservative strategy with the main change being that of setting. It's a successful approach and they make good games, but that doesn't make it ambitious, if anything it makes it conservative.

 

Plus, you can't really go on about the need to own your own IP and then cite CDPRed. Twitcher is owned by Andrej Sapkowski and only licensed by CDPR, and even the unreleased Cyberpunk is based on someone else's system.

 

Wanting Obsidian to do different 'better' games is fine, but you seem to be basically citing a bunch of aspirational ideas- it should be ambitious, successful, innovative, their own IP etc- rather than something more grounded and your choices of example don't match the aspirations.

[Flouride]

 

-snip- 

 

 

One notable difference between these games and Obsidian's is that they're an original property which are owned by their original creators. One of Obsidian's greatest weaknesses (which also proved to be one reason of its [quality] downfall), is that they waste their best ideas on other people's IPs. (I mean, seriously, does KOTOR2 feel like a Star Wars game? Does MotB feel like a Neverwinter Nights game?) They are moving away from this with Tyranny, but unfortunately that IP seems to be owned by Paradox, which won't help Obsidian much.

 

Another good example is CD Projekt RED. They started out with the video game version of The Witcher. Fast-forward 8 years later: They are one of the most well-loved video game studios in the world and The Witcher 3 is hailed by a huge amount of people as the best open-world RPG of all time.

 

 

What does "Neverwinter Nights" games feel like? I always thought Mask of the Betrayer was a D&D game, not just NWN and other than the soul eating mechanism it played just like NWN 2. Who in their right mind would even want to play the OC NWN?

 

Really? You are using CD Projekt Red as an example, the company that gets revenue from GOG.com as well. Why not bring up Valve as well?

Also if you want to compare Obsidian to some Eastern European company you might want to consider the costs of running a business in California vs. Poland. The GDP alone is twice as high in USA than it is in Poland, not to mention rent etc. are way lower in Poland. It's far lot easier to build on that basis, when you've got money trickling from GOG.com and you can hire two workers (equally as good as their American versions) for the same money that most people get just 1 person.

[RingMachine]

Heh, I like how both of you replied to only one point of my four-part post. The same point too.
 

Fairfax, is that you?

 

No.

 

-snip-

 
 
1. "While Frictional make good games they are neither ambitious nor innovative. For ten years they have focused on and do one single genre well, from Penumbra to Amnesia to SOMA. That's a conservative strategy with the main change being that of setting. It's a successful approach and they make good games, but that doesn't make it ambitious, if anything it makes it conservative."
 
Do you even know the meaning of the word ambition?
 
am·bi·tion

amˈbiSH(ə)n/

• a strong desire to do or to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work.
  • desire and determination to achieve success.
  • an earnest desire for some type of achievement or distinction, as power, honor, fame, or wealth, and the willingness to strive for its attainment:

If you knew a bit about what's going on behind the scenes at Frictional you'd know they fall under these definitions. I guess Obsidian fits under the definition of the 'wealth' part currently, and that's kinda sad.  As for innovation, they've done that plenty. Examples: The engine they developed (HPL Engine), the Sanity Meter in Amnesia, and Penumbra: Overture's unique setting all fit under the definition of innovation, not to mention the narrative ideas in SOMA which were highly acclaimed. I've actually seen a lot of people over on their forums that signed up just to let the devs know how much they loved its story.
 
Let's see what Obsidian is doing right now in comparison:
 
1. Bland fantasy RPG.
2. Another fantasy RPG.
3. Another fantasy game, but this time with cards.
4. A rip-off of World of Tanks.
 
How innovative and fresh. Meanwhile, most of the other independent studios nowadays are actually doing what they love. By the way, I don't see what's wrong with focusing on horror games. How is that any different from devs that focus on RPGs?
 
2. "Plus, you can't really go on about the need to own your own IP and then cite CDPRed. Twitcher is owned by Andrej Sapkowski and only licensed by CDPR, and even the unreleased Cyberpunk is based on someone else's system."
 
Why does that even matter? CDPR actually gets a ton of money from their series. On the other hand, Obsidian released the smash success Fallout: New Vegas only for it to worsen their already bad financial situation.
 

3. "Wanting Obsidian to do different 'better' games is fine, but you seem to be basically citing a bunch of aspirational ideas- it should be ambitious, successful, innovative, their own IP etc- rather than something more grounded and your choices of example don't match the aspirations."

 

I'm citing examples of devs who are taking risks and are being rewarded for it.

 

-snip- 

 

4. "What does "Neverwinter Nights" games feel like? I always thought Mask of the Betrayer was a D&D game, not just NWN and other than the soul eating mechanism it played just like NWN 2. Who in their right mind would even want to play the OC NWN?"

 

MotB playing like NWN2 wasn't my point. You actually nailed it with that last sentence: Neverwinter Nights is mostly associated with mediocrity. When MotB was released people were actually amazed that the "follow-up to Planescape"  was put out in the form of a NWN expansion pack.

 

5. "Really? You are using CD Projekt Red as an example, the company that gets revenue from GOG.com as well. Why not bring up Valve as well?"

 

I used CDPR as an example because that company is very often compared to Obsidian. Especially considering a lot of people probably noticed that The Witcher 3 completely overshadowed PoE.

 

6. "Also if you want to compare Obsidian to some Eastern European company you might want to consider the costs of running a business in California vs. Poland. The GDP alone is twice as high in USA than it is in Poland, not to mention rent etc. are way lower in Poland. It's far lot easier to build on that basis, when you've got money trickling from GOG.com and you can hire two workers (equally as good as their American versions) for the same money that most people get just 1 person."

 

Which goes back to my point about how Feargus hired more people than he could carry.

[Infinitron]

 

Which goes back to my point about how Feargus hired more people than he could carry.

 

RingMachine, in this argumentative framework that you've constructed that defines ambitious and non-ambitious developers, how would you classify BioWare?

 

Because in interviews, Feargus has said that Obsidian was explicitly founded with the intention of repeating what BioWare had done a few years earlier. Find a "sugar daddy" publisher similar to Brian Fargo's Interplay in the late 90s, start with licensed products (like D&D and Star Wars) and then eventually graduate to developing their own IPs.

 

Obsidian failed at this, in part because their games missed their marks in various ways, and in part because of structural changes going on in the industry (consoles, budgets, publisher dominance, etc) that made following in BioWare's footsteps difficult. But it wasn't some outrageously unsound strategy. They were following the example of BioWare.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Infinitron

[Flouride]

*snip snap* cba to quote.

Yes, original NWN is associated with mediocrity, but that's hardly Obsidian's fault. Still the game series has lots of fans from both the original by BioWare and by NWN2. I personally prefer NWN 2 (even without MotB) over NWN. No idea if the expansion packs made the original game better, but for me who didn't play them Obsidian made that game better than the original. Also it seems like you fail to realize the world we live in. Obsidian and Feargus can't dictate to Atari in what form they will deliever Mask of the Betrayer. It's Atari who is running the show, they said expansion packs is all you are going to get and they made the most with at least one of them. Mask of the Betrayer is still a good game, whether it's called NWN2:MotB, NWN3, or just MotB.  There's no way in hell, Atari was going to let them launch a new IP so it's either full on sequel or an expansion. Remember, this is the company that didn't have the balls to even greenlight Baldur's Gate 3, a game that would have basically printed money with the name alone.

 

Your CD Projekt Red still sucks though, even if people compared Witcher 3 to PoE. One of them is full on AAA game with years of development and the other one is a 5 million kickstarter game. In what world won't that AAA game overshadow the kickstarter game, unless the AAA game is being made by complete twats.

And you completely missed my point when it comes to finances, but I guess it just didn't fit into your "agenda".

 

[Flouride]

And I still think the biggest achievement for Obsidian is that they are still here. Even after all the **** ups they've made, all the *** drillings they've taken from publishers (*cough Bethesda cough*), the execs who cancel games their predecessors greenlit and the continually evolving industry. 13 years with ups and downs, and they are still here. If they were such bad people at running company and lacked ambition, they would have went down in flames years ago. Yet, here they are, looking stronger than ever (even if they aren't currently working on a game that you find innovative and fresh).
 

[RingMachine]

 

Which goes back to my point about how Feargus hired more people than he could carry.

 

RingMachine, in this argumentative framework that you've built defining ambitious and non-ambitious developers, how would you classify BioWare?

 

Because in interviews, Feargus has said that Obsidian was explicitly built to repeat what BioWare had done a few years earlier. Find a "sugar daddy" publisher similar to Brian Fargo's Interplay in the late 90s, start with licensed products (like D&D and Star Wars) and then eventually graduate to developing their own IPs.

 

Obsidian failed at this, in part because their games missed their marks in various ways, and in part because of structural changes going on in the industry (consoles, budgets, publisher dominance, etc) that made following in BioWare's footsteps difficult. But it wasn't some outrageously unsound strategy. They were following the example of BioWare.

 

BioWare only released two (unremarkable) original games before being bought out by EA, so it's not like their strategy worked out much better. As for ambition, I suppose the effort is there, it's just that their employees have always been largely untalented. Still, I give them a bit of credit for creating a somewhat interesting fantasy world with Dragon Age: Origins.

 

 

-snip-

 

"Yes, original NWN is associated with mediocrity, but that's hardly Obsidian's fault."

I don't see why it's not Obsidian's fault when they themselves also made the mediocre sequel.

 

"Obsidian and Feargus can't dictate to Atari in what form they will deliever Mask of the Betrayer. It's Atari who is running the show, they said expansion packs is all you are going to get and they made the most with at least one of them. Mask of the Betrayer is still a good game, whether it's called NWN2:MotB, NWN3, or just MotB. There's no way in hell, Atari was going to let them launch a new IP so it's either full on sequel or an expansion. Remember, this is the company that didn't have the balls to even greenlight Baldur's Gate 3, a game that would have basically printed money with the name alone."

 

I know Obsidian can't tell Atari how to release MOTB. But they could've released the same game with a different publisher and with a different property. It's not like it even matters considering how different MotB is from the other NWN games. That way, the game would've gotten a lot more recognition and therefore would have vastly improved Obsidian's reputation.

 

By the way, them not wanting to greenlight Baldur's Gate 3 says more about Obsidian than Atari.

 

"Your CD Projekt Red still sucks though, even if people compared Witcher 3 to PoE. One of them is full on AAA game with years of development and the other one is a 5 million kickstarter game. In what world won't that AAA game overshadow the kickstarter game, unless the AAA game is being made by complete twats."

 

That's not the end of it. TW3 overshadowed PoE across literally all audiences, including the hardcore cRPG crowd. Just take a look over at RPG Codex's GOTY awards: TW3 was #3 while Pillars barely made the top 20.

 

"And you completely missed my point when it comes to finances, but I guess it just didn't fit into your "agenda"."

 

'K.

 

And I still think the biggest achievement for Obsidian is that they are still here. Even after all the **** ups they've made, all the *** drillings they've taken from publishers (*cough Bethesda cough*), the execs who cancel games their predecessors greenlit and the continually evolving industry. 13 years with ups and downs, and they are still here. If they were such bad people at running company and lacked ambition, they would have went down in flames years ago. Yet, here they are, looking stronger than ever (even if they aren't currently working on a game that you find innovative and fresh).

 

Too bad the designing team at Obsidian is completely different from what it was 5-12 years ago.

[Flouride]

*sigh* At what age did you move onto Fantasy Island? In what world can the newly formed company take their pitch for MotB to some other publisher with "some" mystical IP that you can't even name as an example that would fit it and that would have the same recognition that D&D has when they have a publisher ready to put it out under D&D and as an expansion for NWN2 using some of the same art assets from that same game? While you are at it, look into that glass ball of yours and tell me the lottery numbers for next week.

 

Both games are cRPG's so it that much of surprise for you that a well made AAA cRPG will get better reviews, recognition and sales than a Kickstarter game? I wouldn't call Pillars of Eternity a game for the "hardcore" cRPG gamers either. While it has some mechanics made for such gamers, it's still a realtime with pause type of game that tries to capture the spirit of Baldur's Gate (which was in no way a hardcore cRPG) and not a turn based cRPG that most would rather put under the label "hardcore".

 

Imagine that... people actually change their jobs once in a while. Must be really depressing to be able to choose from multiple companies and different kind of games to work on, instead of just working for the same company for decades and doing nothing but cRPGs.