Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear RELEASED

[falchen]

People have brought up genuine issues and bugs, unfortunately they keep getting drowned out by pointless bitching about gamergates or whatever, makes it hard to find actuall information about the game itself...

[BruceVC]

Oookey, time to go start a campaigh about how Hatred exceptionally portrays SJW issues, and how customers are unable to notice its deep impact in the industry :-P

 

We'll see how many extra sales it will bring from people who never boot up the game :-D

 

Fair enough,  but I would never buy a game like Hatred because the developers tried to say " they were making a game that was not politically correct and was just going to be fun and cool " . 

 

So they attacked so called SJW pressure on developers and wanted to create something " unique " but they really just tried to  manipulate people to buy the game who are annoyed with perceived SJW interference  ...yet the game was just boring and repetitive from what I read 

[Junai]

So if a certain number of reviews contain complaints about the writer's political leanings, they should be lumped together, and the reviewers dismissed as 'deluded'? On top of that, their criticism should be seen as an unfair and organized attack on the developer?

 

Good Lord.. I'm starting to understand why Americans vote for Trump - just because.

[Hurlshort]

So if a certain number of reviews contain complaints about the writer's political leanings, they should be lumped together, and the reviewers dismissed as 'deluded'? On top of that, their criticism should be seen as an unfair and organized attack on the developer?

 

 

If most of those reviews seem to be coming from people that haven't played the game, absolutely.  

 

Nothing about the setting or storyline seems to be pushing some agenda.  It looks like a pretty typical fantasy game.

[Teioh_White]

Err....the writer stated she wanted to push an agenda. And the game does so throughout the entire thing. Which could still be fine if the writing wasn't god awful. I mean, I like Bioshock even

with its contant whinging on Objectivism.

 

But its got many more issues than just Beamdogs political leanings, those just make it hard to overlook the flaws and try and just enjoy some below average IE gameplay.

[BruceVC]

Err....the writer stated she wanted to push an agenda. And the game does so throughout the entire thing. Which could still be fine if the writing wasn't god awful. I mean, I like Bioshock even

with its contant whinging on Objectivism.

 

But its got many more issues than just Beamdogs political leanings, those just make it hard to overlook the flaws and try and just enjoy some below average IE gameplay.

I dont think the game pushed the agenda enough....but I admit my view is probably extreme and I dont expect much popular support 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Err....the writer stated she wanted to push an agenda.

 

Source?

[hamskii]

 

Err....the writer stated she wanted to push an agenda.

 

Source?

 

 

I think it was referring to this interview. Specifically,

 

“If there was something for the original Baldur’s Gate that just doesn’t mesh for modern day gamers like the sexism, [we tried to address that],” said writer Amber Scott. “In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple, like Safana was just a sex object in BG 1, and Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy. We were able to say, ‘No, that’s not really the kind of story we want to make.’ In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad.”

 

“I got to write a little tender, romance-y side quest for Khalid and Jaheira where you could learn a little bit about how their marriage works and how they really feel about each other.”

 

There’s also four new companions, one of whom is gay, one of whom is bisexual. There’s even a monster companion, a throwback to a Baldur’s Gate II easter egg. But it’s not just about representation for representation’s sake. Beamdog wanted to give players options.

 

“We’ve got four new companions, and then there’s the returned Enhanced Edition companions and then a bunch of companions from Baldur’s Gate 1,” said Daigle. “There’s a very wide and large roster in this game. You can build whatever kind of party you want. One of the problems in BG 1 and 2 was that it was kind of hard to have an evil party that worked. We put a lot of work into making it so can have an evil party that won’t screw you over, that will work in the game. You can be that evil character you want to be.”

I don't find anything particularly objectionable in anything she said here (I've spoken about my problems with how women are depicted in another IE game here), but I'm sure that given how "reasonable" people here can be (calling anyone identified as a "SJW" a nazi, for example), I'll be in a minority.

[redneckdevil]

Just pulling in, but That's not the spires they are talking about. What they are talking is the interview where asked and she replied that if players had a problem with the direction, they can get over it because that's the direction they are going.

It's actually that statement that has made me not purchase the game even if by some stroke of luck of being great (which from what I've seen is far from it). It's that attitude that they are not making a game they want the players to enjoy, they are making a game THEY would enjoy and if the players didn't like it, "well to bad". The problem is its blown up in their faces and that blazer attitude has been thrown right back at them BUT now themselves are the victim when they literally asked for it.

It's also not just this game, she has a history of PUSHING her agenda down the throats of whatever product she's done weither it actually benefited the product or not.

For a product that is a niche product and u are blantant about what ur putting in and where ur focus is and even do an immature snipe at GG and tell the fans of u don't like it, then to bad. Then sorry, to bad I'm not gonna give money to such a organization. IMHO.

To those who are liking it or on the same page of "pushing an agenda", cool I'm glad u liked it and I'm not gonna belittle you at all enjoy it. Myself, nah I'll take my money elsewhere.

 

If I find the statement, I'll be sure to link.

[Hurlshort]

That's kind of the beauty of creating stuff though, you are free to push whatever agenda you want.  It may not sell well, of course, but there is a point where the consumer complaints get into ludicrous territory.  I had zero interest in Hatred, I voiced my concern that it looked like a dumb concept, but I couldn't imagine going out of my way to write reviews and trying to boycott it.  That is crazy behavior.

[ShadySands]

I just wanted to let you guys know

 

I'm a vegan

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I just wanted to let you guys know

 

I'm a vegan

You're dead to me.

[BruceVC]

I just wanted to let you guys know

 

I'm a vegan

[ShadySands]

I don't find anything particularly objectionable in anything she said here (I've spoken about my problems with how women are depicted in another IE game here), but I'm sure that given how "reasonable" people here can be (calling anyone identified as a "SJW" a nazi, for example), I'll be in a minority.

Was it Volo? He calls everybody a nazi, I wouldn't sweat it

[the_dog_days]

I just wanted to let you guys know

 

I'm a vegan

Reading this was the first I ever wept while eat fired chicken.

[Gromnir]

I just wanted to let you guys know

 

I'm a vegan

based on the food threads, you are a vegan the same way that Gromnir is an omnisexual, hippie, soccer fan who listens to jazz... and solves crime.

 

back to the thread... the revelation that a person who creates entertainment has an agenda is... not.  is not a revelation.  directors, musicians, writers and actors who gots transparent political and personal agendas that they advance at every opportunity is not new.  we could literal be here for hours listing the entertainments and the entertainers who unabashed has advanced their causes through their art and entertainment. furthermore, based on reviews from people who has actual played sod, people who observe that the sjw elements included in ssod is minor and hardly even noteworthy, to rail 'bout a beamdog's agenda pushing writer(s) and to use sod as an example o' the terribleness o' the  politicization o' games seems more than a little misguided.  "delusional" appears to fit quite nice.

 

 

HA! Good Food! 

Edited April 20, 2016 by Gromnir

[213374U]

 

Err....the writer stated she wanted to push an agenda.

 

Source?

 

https://archive.is/4HIow#selection-4325.1-4341.5

 

Everyone has a hidden agenda. Except me! - Michael Crichton

 

Yeah... if only Scott were as entertaining a writer as Crichton was, though.

[Hurlshort]

 

 

Err....the writer stated she wanted to push an agenda.

 

Source?

 

https://archive.is/4HIow#selection-4325.1-4341.5

 

Everyone has a hidden agenda. Except me! - Michael Crichton

 

Yeah... if only Scott were as entertaining a writer as Crichton was, though.

 

 

Huh, that's pretty tame.  "I like to create diverse characters" is hardly the same as "I'm going to cram my agenda down your throat!"  But hey, to each their own.   

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Quoting Infinitron's and Phantasma's posts:

 

0.8% of BG:EE players/owners now have a BG:SoD achievement: http://steamcommunity.com/stats/228280/achievements

 

According to the latest Steamspy stats, that means at least 3500-4300 owners.

 

Plus gog and direct purchases from the beamdog website. Still, 10k is probably max,

[Leferd]

Did they ever sell out of the Collector's Edition box?

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Some people requested refunds.

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/50548/refunding-the-collectors-edition-is-it-possible/p1

 

And there has been a confirmation on another forum that refunds have been given for those that weren't given a Steam key.

[Leferd]

Ouch. 

 

Still...I'm hoping the Bio-in-Exiles with Gaider will have enough in the bank to fund a brand new game.

[213374U]

 

 

 

Err....the writer stated she wanted to push an agenda.

 

Source?

 

https://archive.is/4HIow#selection-4325.1-4341.5

 

Everyone has a hidden agenda. Except me! - Michael Crichton

 

Yeah... if only Scott were as entertaining a writer as Crichton was, though.

 

 

Huh, that's pretty tame.  "I like to create diverse characters" is hardly the same as "I'm going to cram my agenda down your throat!"  But hey, to each their own.   

 

 

You're cherrypicking, but that's not even what she said. She also self-identifies as a SJW in the same post, and in this context, it's not a good thing. She's a Sarkeesian (of "disagreeing with me is harassment" fame) follower.

 

But really, it's only "pretty tame" because you happen to agree with the agenda. I'm guessing that if some writer working on Star Wars VIII happened to be, say, a hardcore communist and defended his right to appropriate the IP to use as a soapbox for his political bull, you wouldn't be so cool with it. Because that's what happened - the stuff in the game is pretty tame indeed. She didn't really shove anything down anyone's throat that I could observe. From her statements, though, she clearly reserves the right to do so if she wanted. Are you surprised that people reacted badly?

 

As far as I'm concerned, she's welcome to do all the "SJW games" she wants. She gets better at writing plots and characters and I might even buy some.

[BruceVC]

I dont get this accusation that she has an "agenda "

 

If she said she only writes characters who are heterosexual would people be saying the same thing?

[Gromnir]

 

 

 

 

Err....the writer stated she wanted to push an agenda.

 

Source?

 

https://archive.is/4HIow#selection-4325.1-4341.5

 

Everyone has a hidden agenda. Except me! - Michael Crichton

 

Yeah... if only Scott were as entertaining a writer as Crichton was, though.

 

 

Huh, that's pretty tame.  "I like to create diverse characters" is hardly the same as "I'm going to cram my agenda down your throat!"  But hey, to each their own.   

 

 

You're cherrypicking, but that's not even what she said. She also self-identifies as a SJW in the same post, and in this context, it's not a good thing. She's a Sarkeesian (of "disagreeing with me is harassment" fame) follower.

 

But really, it's only "pretty tame" because you happen to agree with the agenda. I'm guessing that if some writer working on Star Wars VIII happened to be, say, a hardcore communist and defended his right to appropriate the IP to use as a soapbox for his political bull, you wouldn't be so cool with it. Because that's what happened - the stuff in the game is pretty tame indeed. She didn't really shove anything down anyone's throat that I could observe. From her statements, though, she clearly reserves the right to do so if she wanted. Are you surprised that people reacted badly?

 

As far as I'm concerned, she's welcome to do all the "SJW games" she wants. She gets better at writing plots and characters and I might even buy some.

 

 

not surprised. disappointed.  

 

again, throughout history, a considerable proportion o' entertainers has promoted some kinda agenda.  *chuckle* a significant proportion o' entertainment has only been possible 'cause patrons has paid the bills for entertainers, and quite often those patrons got motivations other than a pure advocacy o' the artform.  individual artists, free o' patron influence, is no less likely to have an agenda.  again, we would be here prohibitive long if we tried listing artists and art that were promoting an agenda. is utmost naivety to be surprised that a beamdog writer is promoting an agenda o' her own through stories.  

 

complain that the beamdog writer's advocacy were crude and detracted from the narrative is a valid and reasonable complaint.  is one reason we complete supported peter jackson dropping the Scouring of the Shire portion o' lotr from his movie trilogy.  when writers is clumsy and inartful in promoting their agenda, we criticize.

 

however, we do not simple reject a piece o' entertainment 'cause we dislike the entertainer's obvious agenda.  we already mentioned the dallas buyer's club as an example, yes?  dallas included more than a couple great performances, but we disliked the agenda. so?

 

but perhaps we gotta embrace nerd culture a bit more to make a point in this place, eh?  frank miller's politics is divisive, to say the least.  

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2011/11/13/batman-artist-frank-miller-calls-occupy-wall-street-protesters-pond-scum/

 

frank miller has been unabashed 'bout injecting his politics into the narrative o' his stories... though is kinda amusing that before the internet were anything other than a mote in the corner o' al gore's eye, miller's personal political agenda were a relative non factor when discussing his  stories.  at the time of its publication, tdkr were judged on its own merits.  ah, the good old days. is much harder to discuss tdkr or 300  in 2016 w/o having miller's politics become a pivotal concern. 

 

wanna discuss heinlein novels w/o addressing the authors' personal politics?  go ahead, we dare you.  am suspecting that it is gonna be difficult to find many folks who share heinlein's unique libertarian (borderline anarchist) politics, coupled with his advocacy o' a strong military and his clear patriotism. a free love advocate who made the terrorists his heroes in the moon is a harsh mistress, but who also were the first scifi author to have a novel on the recommended reading list at all three US military academies, were bound to offend many people.  heck, God were the ultimate antagonist in heinlein's job: a comedy of justice. heinlein challenged his readers.  heinlein were not afraid that his transparent political agenda had a tendency to offend.  

 

"if some writer working on Star Wars VIII happened to be, say, a hardcore communist and defended his right to appropriate the IP to use as a soapbox for his political bull,"  we wouldn't care one whit just so long as the narrative were good.  heck, you actual observe that regardless o' the writer's claims, she did not actual "shove anything down anyone's throat."

 

 

so, are we doing phrasing?

 

anywho, 'ccording to #'s, there were no deepthroating o' the agenda and what sjw elements made it into the game were, "pretty tame." 

 

...

 

am not certain where is the justification in creating a negative review campaign 'cause o' a single beamdog writer's (of which there are a few) comments.  we sure as heck do not reject entertainments just 'cause a contributor to the entertainment claimed that she had a right to inject sjw elements into the narrative. stoopid and delusional... and the real tragedy is that there appear to be more than a few stoopid and delusional fans, but as we observed from the start, we is not surprised. disappointed.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps unlike bruce, Gromnir ain't an sjw.  the tendency o' liberal media and hollywood to overcompensate in its efforts to protect the feelings o' every underrepresented race/gender/ethnic group makes our blood run cold.  is likely folks are offended 'cause the george washington being portrayed in that amc tv show ain't a deaf latino woman... who engages in regular same sex encounters.  we got no issue with challenging traditional roles, but frequent the results is so clumsy that the only rationale we see for having indulged such nonsense is appease the sjw nincompoops.   am hardly a member o' the sjw army.  

 

even so, as we has said before, we hate lack o' fairness.  beamdog and sod got treated unfair in spite o' our animosity towards most sjw advocacy.  stoopid and delusional and unfair trumps our irritation with sjw overkill... and as the sjw elements in sod is admitted "tame" is hard to claim overkill.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Gromnir