Jump to content
  • Sign Up
Infinitron

Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear RELEASED

Recommended Posts

 

If the intent is what you say it is, then great. If the intent however is to secure the moral high ground by ticking a series of checkboxes, then not so great.

 

 

 

I'm firmly in the "never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence" camp, so... I dunno, to me, it sounds more plausible that someone genuinely wants to have good representation but has no idea how to write characters with wildly different life experiences, outlooks and motivations from their own (after all, let's face it, if they were good writers, they wouldn't be working for Beamdog).

  • Like 2

"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only gay character I've ever had a problem with is the gay mechanic in ME3, and that was for precisely the same reason as the one in SoD- just about the first thing he says to you is approx.  "Hi, I'm Steve, and I'm gay because I have a husband who has died!". I find it rather odd that Shephard can suddenly become a gay male in the last game but I'm happy enough to accept that that is a deficiency with the previous two games rather than shoehorning into the last one. The problem in both cases is primarily the shoehorning (making it an obvious political statement, not something you'd expect someone to actually say) not actually the content itself. Though in the SoD case it's a real world problem that ought not to be a significant problem in context due to magic existing and already established solutions in game.

Edited by Zoraptor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only gay character I've ever had a problem with is the gay mechanic in ME3, and that was for precisely the same reason as the one in SoD- just about the first thing he says to you is approx.  "Hi, I'm Steve, and I'm gay because I have a husband who has died!". I find it rather odd that Shephard can suddenly become a gay male in the last game but I'm happy enough to accept that that is a deficiency with the previous two games rather than shoehorning into the last one. The problem in both cases is primarily the shoehorning (making it an obvious political statement, not something you'd expect someone to actually say) not actually the content itself. Though in the SoD case it's a real world problem that ought not to be a significant problem in context due to magic existing and already established solutions in game.

A

Edited by BruceVC

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Only gay character I've ever had a problem with is the gay mechanic in ME3, and that was for precisely the same reason as the one in SoD- just about the first thing he says to you is approx.  "Hi, I'm Steve, and I'm gay because I have a husband who has died!". I find it rather odd that Shephard can suddenly become a gay male in the last game but I'm happy enough to accept that that is a deficiency with the previous two games rather than shoehorning into the last one. The problem in both cases is primarily the shoehorning (making it an obvious political statement, not something you'd expect someone to actually say) not actually the content itself. Though in the SoD case it's a real world problem that ought not to be a significant problem in context due to magic existing and already established solutions in game.

 

 

 

Not to worry :)


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, found a use for the Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity now.

  • Like 1

War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

Baldur's Gate modding
TeamBG
Baldur's Gate modder/community leader
Baldur's Gate - Enhanced Edition beta tester
Baldur's Gate 2 - Enhanced Edition beta tester

Icewind Dale - Enhanced Edition beta tester

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Though in the SoD case it's a real world problem that ought not to be a significant problem in context due to magic existing and already established solutions in game.

Why do people keep acting like there's a *problem* in the story? Mizhena literally mentions being trans once, and understandably the dialogue doesn't delve into the details of her anatomy. The internet is full of people writing fanfiction about whether she needs the girdle of masculinity/femininity or not, but that's... really not a subject worth delving into? Regardless of the setting's established solutions and different attitudes towards gender roles, you'd still have people assigned one gender at birth that would end up identifying as another, which is the category that Mizhena fits.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Though in the SoD case it's a real world problem that ought not to be a significant problem in context due to magic existing and already established solutions in game.

Why do people keep acting like there's a *problem* in the story? Mizhena literally mentions being trans once, and understandably the dialogue doesn't delve into the details of her anatomy. The internet is full of people writing fanfiction about whether she needs the girdle of masculinity/femininity or not, but that's... really not a subject worth delving into? Regardless of the setting's established solutions and different attitudes towards gender roles, you'd still have people assigned one gender at birth that would end up identifying as another, which is the category that Mizhena fits.

 

Zora he makes a good point, your post does seem illogical 

Edited by BruceVC

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, it looks like Amber Scott succeeded. We're now debating the role minorities should play in entertainment products, as well as transgender rights, rather than having fun playing a game. 

 

Can someone please create a computer game? I'd like to get away from serious real life issues for a while and just enjoy a good fantasy game. Also, I'd prefer serious issues to be kept out of games altogether. A goblin accusing me of racism won't really deter me from criticizing labour's immigration policy.

 

I was looking forward to PoE, but it was written by someone who has spirituality, souls and enlightenment on his brain. I looked forward to SoD too, but that was written by somone who obviously aspires to become Bernie Sanders' campaign manager.

 

I'd like a game set in Forgotten Realms, where I can roam around with Korgan and look for treasure.. and beat up a few skeletons. 

 

 

Anyone? I'll even pay for it.

 

 

J.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, it looks like Amber Scott succeeded. We're now debating the role minorities should play in entertainment products, as well as transgender rights, rather than having fun playing a game. 

 

Can someone please create a computer game? I'd like to get away from serious real life issues for a while and just enjoy a good fantasy game. Also, I'd prefer serious issues to be kept out of games altogether. A goblin accusing me of racism won't really deter me from criticizing labour's immigration policy.

 

I was looking forward to PoE, but it was written by someone who has spirituality, souls and enlightenment on his brain. I looked forward to SoD too, but that was written by somone who obviously aspires to become Bernie Sanders' campaign manager.

 

I'd like a game set in Forgotten Realms, where I can roam around with Korgan and look for treasure.. and beat up a few skeletons. 

 

 

Anyone? I'll even pay for it.

 

 

J.

Yes but surly the goblin makes you at least think of racism...so you can play a game and think of racism in RL

 

So its a win win for everyone?


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there really a goblin that accuses you of racism in the game?


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Well, it looks like Amber Scott succeeded. We're now debating the role minorities should play in entertainment products, as well as transgender rights, rather than having fun playing a game.

 

Can someone please create a computer game? I'd like to get away from serious real life issues for a while and just enjoy a good fantasy game. Also, I'd prefer serious issues to be kept out of games altogether. A goblin accusing me of racism won't really deter me from criticizing labour's immigration policy.

 

I was looking forward to PoE, but it was written by someone who has spirituality, souls and enlightenment on his brain. I looked forward to SoD too, but that was written by somone who obviously aspires to become Bernie Sanders' campaign manager.

 

I'd like a game set in Forgotten Realms, where I can roam around with Korgan and look for treasure.. and beat up a few skeletons.

 

 

Anyone? I'll even pay for it.

 

 

J.

 

Yes but surly the goblin makes you at least think of racism...so you can play a game and think of racism in RL

 

So its a win win for everyone?

No. Goblin accuses my character of racism, not me. And if he is saying that, he is probably right. What happens in game has no relevancy to what is happening in RL. And if the setting is interesting, for me to enjoy the game, it is the same to play power mad racist piece of ****, or rainbow pissing carebear lover. Edited by Mamoulian War
  • Like 1

Sent from my Stone Tablet, using Chisel-a-Talk 2000BC.

My youtube channel: MamoulianFH Latest Let's Play Vaporum (completed)

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 1: Austria Grand Campaign (completed)
Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 2: Xhosa Grand Campaign (completed)
My PS Platinums - 20 games so far (my PSN profile)

 

 

1) God of War III - PS3 - 24+ hours

2) Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 130+ hours

3) White Knight Chronicles International Edition - PS3 - 525+ hours

4) Hyperdimension Neptunia - PS3 - 80+ hours

5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

10) Tales of Graces f - PS3 - 337+ hours

11) Star Ocean: The Last Hope International - PS3 - 750+ hours

12) Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 127+ hours

13) Soulcalibur V - PS3 - 73+ hours

14) Gran Turismo 5 - PS3 - 600+ hours

15) Tales of Xillia 2 - PS3 - 302+ hours

16) Mortal Kombat XL - PS4 - 95+ hours

17) Project CARS Game of the Year Edition - PS4 - 120+ hours

18) Dark Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

19) Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory - PS3 - 238+ hours

20) Final Fantasy Type-0 - PS4 - 58+ hours

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Well, it looks like Amber Scott succeeded. We're now debating the role minorities should play in entertainment products, as well as transgender rights, rather than having fun playing a game.

 

Can someone please create a computer game? I'd like to get away from serious real life issues for a while and just enjoy a good fantasy game. Also, I'd prefer serious issues to be kept out of games altogether. A goblin accusing me of racism won't really deter me from criticizing labour's immigration policy.

 

I was looking forward to PoE, but it was written by someone who has spirituality, souls and enlightenment on his brain. I looked forward to SoD too, but that was written by somone who obviously aspires to become Bernie Sanders' campaign manager.

 

I'd like a game set in Forgotten Realms, where I can roam around with Korgan and look for treasure.. and beat up a few skeletons.

 

 

Anyone? I'll even pay for it.

 

 

J.

Yes but surly the goblin makes you at least think of racism...so you can play a game and think of racism in RL

 

So its a win win for everyone?

No. Goblin accuses my character of racism, not me. And if he is saying that, he is probably right. What happens in game has no relevancy to what is happening in RL. And if the setting is interesting, for me to enjoy the game, it is the same to play power mad racist piece of ****, or rainbow pissing carebear lover.

 

It does seem a little strange and pointless to make a point about racism using a goblin....is that even a valid symbol that represents racism that people will recognize

?


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can my character own up to the racism and tell the goblin to go [expletive] itself before I dispatch its matterless life to the seven sub-hells reserved for non-intelligent races?

  • Like 2

"Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin.

"P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can my character own up to the racism and tell the goblin to go [expletive] itself before I dispatch its matterless life to the seven sub-hells reserved for non-intelligent races?

:lol:

 

Leferd I know you normally stay out these "SJW" debates but dont you agree it seems like tokenism...its like you think " okay this doesn't really fit in " 


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You monster! How dare you!


Sent from my Stone Tablet, using Chisel-a-Talk 2000BC.

My youtube channel: MamoulianFH Latest Let's Play Vaporum (completed)

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 1: Austria Grand Campaign (completed)
Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 2: Xhosa Grand Campaign (completed)
My PS Platinums - 20 games so far (my PSN profile)

 

 

1) God of War III - PS3 - 24+ hours

2) Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 130+ hours

3) White Knight Chronicles International Edition - PS3 - 525+ hours

4) Hyperdimension Neptunia - PS3 - 80+ hours

5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

10) Tales of Graces f - PS3 - 337+ hours

11) Star Ocean: The Last Hope International - PS3 - 750+ hours

12) Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 127+ hours

13) Soulcalibur V - PS3 - 73+ hours

14) Gran Turismo 5 - PS3 - 600+ hours

15) Tales of Xillia 2 - PS3 - 302+ hours

16) Mortal Kombat XL - PS4 - 95+ hours

17) Project CARS Game of the Year Edition - PS4 - 120+ hours

18) Dark Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

19) Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory - PS3 - 238+ hours

20) Final Fantasy Type-0 - PS4 - 58+ hours

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Can my character own up to the racism and tell the goblin to go [expletive] itself before I dispatch its matterless life to the seven sub-hells reserved for non-intelligent races?

 

:lol:

 

Leferd I know you normally stay out these "SJW" debates but dont you agree it seems like tokenism...its like you think " okay this doesn't really fit in "

Bruce, I consider the real social justice issues to be taking place in the developing world --with regards to food shortages, access to healthcare, exploitation, pollution, and inequality of the classes, genders, and ethnic groups.

 

I'm generally anti-LGBT hate groups in the real world --but I find these Internet SJW debates to be tiring and pretentious.

 

But then again, I have lived in the developing world myself so it's all a matter of perspective.

  • Like 1

"Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin.

"P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You monster! How dare you!

I realize now why I find it pointless.,...so the developers clearly think this is helping some inclusivity agenda and its around highlighting racism.... but is it doing anything to address racism?

 

For example take me, I am a white South African who is very active already  because of the history of Apartheid in dealing with racism...but its in the South African context which is unique to SA....so this  goblin message is irrelevant 

 

A person who is real a racist I doubt in anyway  would feel guilty or want to change his view because of this goblin incident

 

And a person who doensn't care about racism or non-racism wont be swayed so he will just ignore the message anyway 

 

This is exactly why I dont expect or push a SJ agenda anymore in games, it seems utterly pointless. I support several SJ themes in RL but this is real and I see meaningful impact 

Edited by BruceVC

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I quite like the idea of being called on 'racism' in D&D, actually. 90% of pretty much any D&D game is wandering around slaughtering trash mobs of orcs/ gobbos/ gnolls/ hobgobbos/ ogres/ lizardmen/ kobolds because they're %race% and despite them being passably intelligent- kobolds can do things like form proper understandable sentences and that puts them well above the typical Youtube commenter or Bruce. Yet we go around slaughtering them because that's the way it's always been done. It could also have the very beneficial side effect of minimising trash mobs... who am I kidding, they'd just have skellies/ ghouls/ rats/ spiders/ liches as the new trash mob instead of the 'smart' ones.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Well, it looks like Amber Scott succeeded. We're now debating the role minorities should play in entertainment products, as well as transgender rights, rather than having fun playing a game.

 

Can someone please create a computer game? I'd like to get away from serious real life issues for a while and just enjoy a good fantasy game. Also, I'd prefer serious issues to be kept out of games altogether. A goblin accusing me of racism won't really deter me from criticizing labour's immigration policy.

 

I was looking forward to PoE, but it was written by someone who has spirituality, souls and enlightenment on his brain. I looked forward to SoD too, but that was written by somone who obviously aspires to become Bernie Sanders' campaign manager.

 

I'd like a game set in Forgotten Realms, where I can roam around with Korgan and look for treasure.. and beat up a few skeletons.

 

 

Anyone? I'll even pay for it.

 

 

J.

Yes but surly the goblin makes you at least think of racism...so you can play a game and think of racism in RL

 

So its a win win for everyone?

No. Goblin accuses my character of racism, not me. And if he is saying that, he is probably right. What happens in game has no relevancy to what is happening in RL. And if the setting is interesting, for me to enjoy the game, it is the same to play power mad racist piece of ****, or rainbow pissing carebear lover.

 

It does seem a little strange and pointless to make a point about racism using a goblin....is that even a valid symbol that represents racism that people will recognize

?

 

I would say that it actually makes the author to be racist: they are basically saying minorities are goblins.  And since most goblins are evil, murderous, thieving bastards, well then I can see most people would be upset at being equated with them...

Edited by FlintlockJazz
  • Like 1

"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I quite like the idea of being called on 'racism' in D&D, actually. 90% of pretty much any D&D game is wandering around slaughtering trash mobs of orcs/ gobbos/ gnolls/ hobgobbos/ ogres/ lizardmen/ kobolds because they're %race% and despite them being passably intelligent- kobolds can do things like form proper understandable sentences and that puts them well above the typical Youtube commenter or Bruce. Yet we go around slaughtering them because that's the way it's always been done. It could also have the very beneficial side effect of minimising trash mobs... who am I kidding, they'd just have skellies/ ghouls/ rats/ spiders/ liches as the new trash mob instead of the 'smart' ones.

I am prepared to admit that, Kobolds are indeed cleverer than me but thats why I want to kill them as I want to be the cleverest person in the world  :biggrin:


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

Well, it looks like Amber Scott succeeded. We're now debating the role minorities should play in entertainment products, as well as transgender rights, rather than having fun playing a game.

 

Can someone please create a computer game? I'd like to get away from serious real life issues for a while and just enjoy a good fantasy game. Also, I'd prefer serious issues to be kept out of games altogether. A goblin accusing me of racism won't really deter me from criticizing labour's immigration policy.

 

I was looking forward to PoE, but it was written by someone who has spirituality, souls and enlightenment on his brain. I looked forward to SoD too, but that was written by somone who obviously aspires to become Bernie Sanders' campaign manager.

 

I'd like a game set in Forgotten Realms, where I can roam around with Korgan and look for treasure.. and beat up a few skeletons.

 

 

Anyone? I'll even pay for it.

 

 

J.

Yes but surly the goblin makes you at least think of racism...so you can play a game and think of racism in RL

 

So its a win win for everyone?

No. Goblin accuses my character of racism, not me. And if he is saying that, he is probably right. What happens in game has no relevancy to what is happening in RL. And if the setting is interesting, for me to enjoy the game, it is the same to play power mad racist piece of ****, or rainbow pissing carebear lover.

 

It does seem a little strange and pointless to make a point about racism using a goblin....is that even a valid symbol that represents racism that people will recognize

?

 

I would say that it actually makes the author to be racist: they are basically saying minorities are goblins.  And since most goblins are evil, murderous, thieving bastards, well then I can see most people would be upset at being equated with them...

 

Funny enough I was going to add this, in South Africa because of our past many black people would misunderstand the goblin symbolism and assume the goblin represents black people and say " why are black people being portrayed as an ugly goblin "

 

But the author is just referring to general racism but in South Africa people generally see any issue of racism as white against  black 

 

So you right...this goblin incident could be horribly misunderstood and backfire on the author where she was just trying to raise awareness 


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny story: I stayed away from every discussion possibly related to the game to finish it unspoiled, and, apart from a couple of fairly insignificant bugs, enjoyed it tremendously. Imagine my surprise when people are frothing at the mouth about a line the camp healing bot has. There I was, for once prepares for the "bland writing" argument.

 

Anyone actually take the time to play the game or everyone too busy with people who are wrong on the internet?

  • Like 4

You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that?

ahyes.gifReapercussionsahyes.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The future of mankind is at stake, when internet is wrong! There is no other option, than to bring it back on track!!!


Sent from my Stone Tablet, using Chisel-a-Talk 2000BC.

My youtube channel: MamoulianFH Latest Let's Play Vaporum (completed)

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 1: Austria Grand Campaign (completed)
Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 2: Xhosa Grand Campaign (completed)
My PS Platinums - 20 games so far (my PSN profile)

 

 

1) God of War III - PS3 - 24+ hours

2) Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 130+ hours

3) White Knight Chronicles International Edition - PS3 - 525+ hours

4) Hyperdimension Neptunia - PS3 - 80+ hours

5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

10) Tales of Graces f - PS3 - 337+ hours

11) Star Ocean: The Last Hope International - PS3 - 750+ hours

12) Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 127+ hours

13) Soulcalibur V - PS3 - 73+ hours

14) Gran Turismo 5 - PS3 - 600+ hours

15) Tales of Xillia 2 - PS3 - 302+ hours

16) Mortal Kombat XL - PS4 - 95+ hours

17) Project CARS Game of the Year Edition - PS4 - 120+ hours

18) Dark Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

19) Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory - PS3 - 238+ hours

20) Final Fantasy Type-0 - PS4 - 58+ hours

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny story: I stayed away from every discussion possibly related to the game to finish it unspoiled, and, apart from a couple of fairly insignificant bugs, enjoyed it tremendously. Imagine my surprise when people are frothing at the mouth about a line the camp healing bot has. There I was, for once prepares for the "bland writing" argument.

 

Anyone actually take the time to play the game or everyone too busy with people who are wrong on the internet?

 

I'm surprised that you're surprised.

 

(the writing is kinda bland...)


- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...