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Marceror

Where should the world of Eora Go From Here? - Please drop in and share your thoughts

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Obviously folks are talking about a sequel for Pillars of Eternity, but I'm not sure what that means exactly, or what it would look like.

 

I haven't finished PoE 1 yet (so please don't share spoilers), but it would be great if the sequel was left open so that the main protagonist of the "original" PoE can continue on and reach godlike heights. Go well beyond the current level cap and reach "epic levels". THAT, would make for an amazing finish to an Infinity Engine spiritual successor, particularly a Baldur's Gate successor. Ideally the second game would also show us more of the world, but perhaps to keep it grounded to the current story, should still be mostly focused in the Eastern Reach. We could visit as of yet unseen towns in the Dyrwood and Eir Glanfath, and maybe visit places like Readceras and/or the Vailian Republic.

 

In addition to that, I'm hopeful that there will be other games that will be launched in Eora, that would share the lore of PoE, and perhaps even where the PoE story is known and referenced, but is otherwise it's own separate story. To use IE vernacular, if PoE is Baldur's Gate, the next title might be the Planescape Torment of the series -- though thematically it should obviously be made appropriate for the world. Personally I think the Aedyr Empire would be a very cool place to base a new series in.

 

It seems like that IP has a lot of interest and momentum. I hope it's going to make financial sense for Obsidian to continue to develop this world. And, I hope they are actually interested in doing so. It sounds like Josh Sawyer isn't interested in being personally involved with another PoE, but that the studio overall is open to it.

 

It would be great to see a nice handful of standalone games based in the world of Eora over the next decade or so. Not every game would  necessarily even need to be 2D Isometric, even though that is by far my preferred format. So, with that in mind, feel free to speculate on different TYPES of games you'd like to see in Eora. With that in mind, I'm hopeful to see a series of novels written in this world. Supposedly MCA's novella is going to be released sometime in our lifetimes.


"Now to find a home for my other staff."
My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke

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Ending spoilers inside this comment.

 

 

If you kill all of your companions your PoE2 protagonist's soul travels back through time and becomes first “version” of Thaos. And Iovara if you didn't. [pokerface]

 


Pillars of Bugothas

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What makes you say Josh is not interested in making another PoE game?


"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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Marceror, it will be interesting to see if PoE2 is a continuation of the PoE PC's story, or if it will start a brand new PC at level 1.  Personally, I'm hoping for a continuation, though to be honest (and not really spoiling anything here), the level cap in PoE/WM1&2 is level 16, so if you've reached level 16, you're quite a force to be reckoned with.  I don't remember what level the PC ends up at in BG2 pre-ToB, but I'm thinking that it wasn't as high as level 16.  Or if it was, you may not have been as powerful as a 16th level PoE character.

 

So, anyways, who's to say?  It could be a continuation, though if it was, the PC would end up being amazingly powerful, far beyond what he is at the end of PoE1 with the expansions.  Or it could be a story based on an entirely new PC.  Only time will tell.

 

But moving on, what I'd like to see is for PoE to take place elsewhere on Eora, in a location or locations with a VERY different environment than the Dyrwood.  The nicely green forests of the Dyrwood and the wintery terrain of the White March is all well and good.  But let's go some place(s) where there are different environments.    IIRC, the Living Lands are said to have vastly different environments from valley to valley.  That might be a good place to go to see a lot of variation in environments.  One area might be jungle, the next might be a desert, and so on. 

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What makes you say Josh is not interested in making another PoE game?

There is a PDF floating around the net authored by Sawyer where his answer to "would you do it again" -- in regards to the development of PoE -- is no. His primary reason listed is because he dislikes class based systems. I don't have the link handy, though. Sorry.

Edited by Marceror

"Now to find a home for my other staff."
My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke

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Marceror, it will be interesting to see if PoE2 is a continuation of the PoE PC's story, or if it will start a brand new PC at level 1.  Personally, I'm hoping for a continuation, though to be honest (and not really spoiling anything here), the level cap in PoE/WM1&2 is level 16, so if you've reached level 16, you're quite a force to be reckoned with.  I don't remember what level the PC ends up at in BG2 pre-ToB, but I'm thinking that it wasn't as high as level 16.  Or if it was, you may not have been as powerful as a 16th level PoE character.

 

So, anyways, who's to say?  It could be a continuation, though if it was, the PC would end up being amazingly powerful, far beyond what he is at the end of PoE1 with the expansions.  Or it could be a story based on an entirely new PC.  Only time will tell.

 

But moving on, what I'd like to see is for PoE to take place elsewhere on Eora, in a location or locations with a VERY different environment than the Dyrwood.  The nicely green forests of the Dyrwood and the wintery terrain of the White March is all well and good.  But let's go some place(s) where there are different environments.    IIRC, the Living Lands are said to have vastly different environments from valley to valley.  That might be a good place to go to see a lot of variation in environments.  One area might be jungle, the next might be a desert, and so on. 

I think pre ToB was around 20, depending on your class. ToB could go as high as level 40. I think of "epic" levels as anything beyond level 20ish, as that was the defining level in 3rd edition DnD.


"Now to find a home for my other staff."
My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke

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Without having a link at hand, I seem to remember the fact that someone from Obsidian said that they are interested in a sequel that will explore other regions. I would assume regions of the Eastern Reach like Vailian Republics or Readceras are more probable than more distant lands. Regarding the story, I would like to see one with a new protagonist.

 

If the sequel happens in Readceras I believe that there are quite interesting ways to tie the story to the events in PoE1: like to find out more information regarding the story of St. Waidwen and what happened after his demise (possibly clarify Eothas whereabouts) . Also given the economic collapse in which this state seems to be in, it could be interesting to find out if any new armed clashes with Dyrwood happen, especially after reopening the White Forge.

 

Vailian republics sequel could also be very interesting and I guess that one of the main themes of PoE1, animancy, could be further detailed given that this confederation is one of the most advanced places in this regard. Also there seems to be quite a lot of lore detailing this region, I believe more so than any other potential candidate for a sequel, so I'd say that it's quite probable that PoE2 will happen here.  

 

Other regions could be used for PoE2, but I think they will entail more or less a complete reset of the story arc. I'm not sure that I'd like this yet, maybe for PoE3 :).

Edited by kmbogd
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What makes you say Josh is not interested in making another PoE game?

There is a PDF floating around the net authored by Sawyer where his answer to "would you do it again" -- in regards to the development of PoE -- is no. His primary reason listed is because he dislikes class based systems. I don't have the link handy, though. Sorry.

 

That document is about attribute design. So, I'm pretty sure he was referring to using again the same ideology, not if he should do a sequel.

Edited by kmbogd
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The Vailian Republics and the Living Lands would be my preferred places for PoE2.

 

Not sure if this is a spoiler, but we are in the non-spoiler area, so...

 

 

But what if in PoE2 we had to visit more places like the one where we fought the final battle? What if they are in other continents? Maybe we could make brief visits all over Eora.

 

 

Edited by InsaneCommander

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What makes you say Josh is not interested in making another PoE game?

There is a PDF floating around the net authored by Sawyer where his answer to "would you do it again" -- in regards to the development of PoE -- is no. His primary reason listed is because he dislikes class based systems. I don't have the link handy, though. Sorry.

 

 

What he meant was the class system only, not another PoE game.

 

PS. Here it is.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/85560-the-logic-behind-attribute-design/

Edited by Messier-31

It would be of small avail to talk of magic in the air...

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What makes you say Josh is not interested in making another PoE game?

There is a PDF floating around the net authored by Sawyer where his answer to "would you do it again" -- in regards to the development of PoE -- is no. His primary reason listed is because he dislikes class based systems. I don't have the link handy, though. Sorry.

 

 

What he meant was the class system only, not another PoE game.

 

PS. Here it is.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/85560-the-logic-behind-attribute-design/

 

The reality is, the PDF does not specify , what "IT" refers to that he wouldn't do again. So unless any of us have some other source to verify, we are all conjecturing as to his intent. That said, Pillars of Eternity IS a game with CLASSES and ATTRIBUTES... and the conclusions being drawn by you and kmbogd would still imply that Josh is not thrilled about the idea of being involved with PoE 2.

 

So regardless of how you interpret, the ultimate conclusion seems to be rather the same.

 

EDIT REASON: Unimportant - message board inanity only

Edited by Marceror

"Now to find a home for my other staff."
My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke

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There were people at GDC who heard the talk, including press. You don't think "Pillars of Eternity director doesn't want to do a sequel" would have made the rounds, if he actually said something like that? Come on.

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There were people at GDC who heard the talk, including press. You don't think "Pillars of Eternity director doesn't want to do a sequel" would have made the rounds, if he actually said something like that? Come on.

/shrug

 

But it seems Josh has stated that he will not be doing "something" again that is currently fundamental to Pillars of Eternity, whether its attributes, classes... or even being involved in the sequel. I have to draw some sort of conclusion from him stating:

 

"Would I Do It, Personally?

• Nope!

• Don't like the conflict with classes.

• Don't like class-based systems!"

 

 

EDIT REASON: Unimportant - message board inanity only

Edited by Marceror

"Now to find a home for my other staff."
My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke

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Valian Republics would be great.  Ruatai could also be neat.  Kana's descriptions of it sound like an interesting setting.  Maybe the living lands.  I do think the character's arc (if it extends past one game) should end in Readceras.  The Godhammer has such a significance that the citadel needs to be explored.

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typical. a misattribution o' an opine to josh sawyer regarding his willingness to do a poe sequel?  *snort*  is similar to how the poe-as-spiritual-successor nonsense got started.  the genesis poster seems to wish to perpetuate old mistakes in addition to creating a new one.

 

*sigh*  

 

that being said, the last thing we want is "godlike heights" and "epic levels."  even a good rule system will inevitable crumble as you add more and more... features.  d&d 3.0 is actual a decent example of a good system gone bad.  oh, sure, harm and 1-level-of-ranger/rogue were initial flaws, but any new system is gonna have growing pains.  unfortunate, with every new splat-book and setting expansion, new and "better" were introduced, resulting in new and better ways to break an otherwise decent system.  ever more ridiculous spells, feats and prestige classes contributed to the eventual ruin o' 3.0.  similarly, following the almost comic book-style narrative one upmanship the wotc writers employed, the most popular d&d settings became a increasingly gut clench worthy.  each new supplement resulted in less internal logic and worsening balance.  

 

am thinking that for any sequel, the developers need be very careful o' increasing power levels.  refine what they already got?  sure.  poe needs refinement, but am thinking we has already witnessed how the addition o' new and more powerful gear, spells/abilities and talents is already stretching poe mechanics to the logical limits.  

 

 

is gonna be difficult for obsidian to do otherwise than to give marc what he and others wish.  there is gonna be an expectation from many fans that poe2 will provide an additional dozen levels. even so, am hopeful that the developers take a step back and recognize just how much they can do to improve the current world and level-scheme they got in place.  obsidian did iwd2 not bg2.  the same core o' developers also had a hand in nwn2 and kotor2.  the black isle and obsidian folks has shown a willingness to do a sequel that returns the protagonist to square-one.  heck, even bioware, since bg2 and tob, has seen the wisdom o' avoiding level-bloat.  for mass effect and dragon age, bioware had sequels return to level 1.  

 

we got a much longer list o' what we do wish from poe2, but for the moment we will simple observe that more is rare better when it comes to a rule system, and we hope that obsidian avoids the epic level trap for poe2. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

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I feel (apparently controversially) that PoE's ending clarified the story immensely, and provided quite a bit of closure for the protagonist. With that in mind, I would like PoE2 (as and when it happens) to not be a continuation of the PoE1 Watcher's story, but instead a new one. The world of Eora is new and fresh, with lots of interesting diversions (and, implicitly, inspirations from) history, which would be exciting and interesting to explore.

 

PoE is essentially a dialogue about the place of one particular subject and societal structure within high fantasy (OP said no spoilers). This is, essentially, what I have enjoyed most about PoE; it is presenting a question about the way that high fantasy works, and then allowing the player to explore it.

 

PoE2, wherever in Eora it is set (there are many interesting locations - Rautai sounds incredibly exciting: an incredible reinvention of what would have conventionally been 'Orcs'), it needs to find and explore another of these deep and perceptive questions; either straight up philosophical ones, or another perceptive question about the nature and construction of high fantasy settings.

 

I completely agree with Gromnir about avoiding high level settings; I think that the player is already very strong by the end of PoE - events such as the Godhammer would be cheapened if they are available as a regular utility for the player.

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The world of Eora will unavoidably be overtaken by Kyros the overlord, making this a moot question. That said, hypothetically a focus on the Vailian republics would be nice. I would also be grateful for the inclusion of limited pirate elements, such as making subsequent strongholds a boat and adding a small region with a Brynnlaw-like atmosphere, or a thousand and one night atmosphere, such as an Arabian palace full of intrigue, a princess, an evil grand vizier and a djinn.

 

That said, I second the above by Gromnir. It would be wise to be cautious with adding extra levels, especially given the immense amount of currently available spells, the meta game knowledge required to use them effectively and the currently available high level enemies.

Edited by gogocactus

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The world of Eora will unavoidably be overtaken by Kyros the overlord, making this a moot question.

 

Do we have any confirmation Tiranny is set on Eora? Because I am very skeptical of it.

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It seems like that IP has a lot of interest and momentum. I hope it's going to make financial sense for Obsidian to continue to develop this world. And, I hope they are actually interested in doing so. It sounds like Josh Sawyer isn't interested in being personally involved with another PoE, but that the studio overall is open to it.

 

 

lol: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83320-project-louisiana-not-fallout-related/?p=1793728

Edited by Infinitron
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Regarding "epic" levels, yes, these create a whole host of challenges. But so what. A PoE 2 that adds another 6 - 8 levels and an expansion that does likewise seems very doable. BG2 never fully got the high level balance right, nor did D&D epic levels. But that never stopped me from enjoying the hell out of late game Baldur's Gate 2, or from seriously enjoying my only pencil and paper DnD campaign where I played a character to epic levels - a cleric that I played from level 4 to level 28. I wrote an entire novel about that character, because I grew to love him so much.

 

So this idea of let's admit defeat before we've even started to fight is not one that I personally subscribe to. All ya'll are welcome to your opinions of course.


"Now to find a home for my other staff."
My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke

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It seems like that IP has a lot of interest and momentum. I hope it's going to make financial sense for Obsidian to continue to develop this world. And, I hope they are actually interested in doing so. It sounds like Josh Sawyer isn't interested in being personally involved with another PoE, but that the studio overall is open to it.

 

 

lol: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83320-project-louisiana-not-fallout-related/?p=1793728

 

 

male_human_f_jes_lg.png

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The reality is, the PDF does not specify , what "IT" refers to that he wouldn't do again. So unless any of us have some other source to verify, we are all conjecturing as to his intent. That said, Pillars of Eternity IS a game with CLASSES and ATTRIBUTES... and the conclusions being drawn by you and kmbogd would still imply that Josh is not thrilled about the idea of being involved with PoE 2.

 

So regardless of how you interpret, the ultimate conclusion seems to be rather the same.

 

Sorry for bringing this up again, but I do remember that in one of development videos of Sawyer (he made a lot of them in early stages of development) he clearly said that he doesn't like class systems, and he would rather create a game in which you don't have classes to pick from, none.

 

And as of Tyranny... I'm 99% sure this has nothing to do with Eora.


It would be of small avail to talk of magic in the air...

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The world of Eora will unavoidably be overtaken by Kyros the overlord, making this a moot question.

 

Do we have any confirmation Tiranny is set on Eora? Because I am very skeptical of it.

I was just joking guys. The two worlds have nothing to do with each other :).

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