Fallout 4...

[Amentep]

I confess, I barely listen to the radio station this time around.

[GhostofAnakin]

Did anyone else do the Confidence Man quest and find they preferred a wussy Travis (radio host) to the 'confident' Travis? 

 

I never listen to the radio, so I didn't even notice a difference.

[WDeranged]

Ah well you both saved yourself some earache either way 

[GhostofAnakin]

Maybe I didn't pay attention as closely to FO3's sidequests, but it seems like FO4 has a lot of repetitive "filler" quests.  You know, tasks given by side characters that require the player to basically do the exact same thing, but just in a different location, and with very little actual payoff (ie. not much furthering of the story or whatever).

 

Anyone else notice this?

[HoonDing]

 

 

There are a total of 140 quests, of which:

    13 are from the Main quests
    34 are Non Faction Side quests
    22 are from the Brotherhood of Steel
    26 are from The Minutemen
    21 are from The Railroad
    24 are from The Institute
    4 are from Companions

[GhostofAnakin]

26 from the Minutemen?  Does that include the repetitive "settlement is under attack/needs your help" ones where I've had to save Sanctuary Hills a dozen times already?

 

Similarly, do the Brotherhood of Steel ones include the "find me technology" repetitive quests that that medic you meet at the police station keeps giving you?

[WDeranged]

Maybe I didn't pay attention as closely to FO3's sidequests, but it seems like FO4 has a lot of repetitive "filler" quests.  You know, tasks given by side characters that require the player to basically do the exact same thing, but just in a different location, and with very little actual payoff (ie. not much furthering of the story or whatever).

 

Anyone else notice this?

 

Fallout 3 didn't have many quests at all but they tended to be pretty long and interwoven with other quests.  Along the way you'd trip over a ton of unmarked mini quests which made the whole thing feel more expansive.

 

 

26 from the Minutemen?  Does that include the repetitive "settlement is under attack/needs your help" ones where I've had to save Sanctuary Hills a dozen times already?

 

Similarly, do the Brotherhood of Steel ones include the "find me technology" repetitive quests that that medic you meet at the police station keeps giving you?

 

Almost certainly.

[Elerond]

26 from the Minutemen?  Does that include the repetitive "settlement is under attack/needs your help" ones where I've had to save Sanctuary Hills a dozen times already?

 

Similarly, do the Brotherhood of Steel ones include the "find me technology" repetitive quests that that medic you meet at the police station keeps giving you?

 

There is 26 different quest ids for minuteman from which four I think repeat to infinity. Same thing is true with BoS and Railroad, meaning that some of their quests just repeats to infinity.

[GhostofAnakin]

 

26 from the Minutemen?  Does that include the repetitive "settlement is under attack/needs your help" ones where I've had to save Sanctuary Hills a dozen times already?

 

Similarly, do the Brotherhood of Steel ones include the "find me technology" repetitive quests that that medic you meet at the police station keeps giving you?

 

There is 26 different quest ids for minuteman from which four I think repeat to infinity. Same thing is true with BoS and Railroad, meaning that some of their quests just repeats to infinity.

 

 

That doesn't seem right.  Even if only 4 are the repetitive ones, that means 22 are new/different quests.  I honestly do not recall doing 22 unique quests for the minutemen.  And I don't think there will be any major ones coming up as I unlocked the "castle" achievement thingy, which I assume is the major sidequest for them (not including any main quest stuff that's related to them).

[Elerond]

 

 

26 from the Minutemen?  Does that include the repetitive "settlement is under attack/needs your help" ones where I've had to save Sanctuary Hills a dozen times already?

 

Similarly, do the Brotherhood of Steel ones include the "find me technology" repetitive quests that that medic you meet at the police station keeps giving you?

 

There is 26 different quest ids for minuteman from which four I think repeat to infinity. Same thing is true with BoS and Railroad, meaning that some of their quests just repeats to infinity.

 

 

That doesn't seem right.  Even if only 4 are the repetitive ones, that means 22 are new/different quests.  I honestly do not recall doing 22 unique quests for the minutemen.  And I don't think there will be any major ones coming up as I unlocked the "castle" achievement thingy, which I assume is the major sidequest for them (not including any main quest stuff that's related to them).

 

 

Minuteman Main quests

When Freedom Calls

Sanctuary

The First Step

Taking Independence

Old Guns

Inside Job (if you ask Minutemen's help to build teleport device)

Banished from the Institute (need to be banished from institute)

Form Ranks (going with minutemen ending)

Defend the Castle (going with minutemen ending)

The Nuclear Option (Minutemen version)

 

Side quests

Abernathy Farm: Retribution

Clearing the Way (this repeats twice in radiant locations (random workshops in the map))

Ghoul Problem (repeats infinity amounts to radiant locations)

Greenskins (repeats infinity amounts to radiant locations)

Kidnapping (repeats infinity amounts to radiant locations)

Out of the Fire

Raider Troubles (repeats infinity amounts to radiant locations)

Resettle Refugees

Returning the Favor

Rogue Courser

Taking Point

The Sight

Troubled Waters

With Our Powers Combined

[Longknife]

I watch the Kid in the Fridge video every once and a while to marvel at the prime cut terriawful writing. As a connoisseur of all things terribly made or written, this is my favorite part of Fallout 4.

[GhostofAnakin]

Finally doing some sidequests for the Institute.  It's a bit of a chore to travel around the place to find the quest-givers, though.  Why can't they congregate in one spot, damn it?

[NOK222]

I'm a bit miffed. Level 4 vendors won't go to your settlements. 

 

i'm not playing till they patch that. 

[GhostofAnakin]

So I got stuck into siding with one faction, all because I listened to a quest giver but was never given an option to say "I'm not sure about this".  Yay for the watered down dialogue system!

[HoonDing]

I killed my son.

[WDeranged]

I killed my son.

 

I did too.  Just a few moments after the initial meeting with 'Father' I experimentally filled him full of boomstick and kudos to Bethesda for not making him essential.

[GhostofAnakin]

I wiped out the Railroad and pretty much had no choice in the matter.  Apparently just accepting a certain quest (one that, once you start talking about with the character, you have no way of backing out of), the Railroad turned hostile toward me.  Apparently they have a spy in the BoS and overheard me talking, because there was no logical reason they'd be hostile toward me.

[WDeranged]

I wiped out the Railroad and pretty much had no choice in the matter.  Apparently just accepting a certain quest (one that, once you start talking about with the character, you have no way of backing out of), the Railroad turned hostile toward me.  Apparently they have a spy in the BoS and overheard me talking, because there was no logical reason they'd be hostile toward me.

 

I'm thinking that writing and recording all the dialogue ages before the game was finished is partially to blame for these moments 

[GhostofAnakin]

Finished the game tonight (or at least the main story questline).  That was the most straightforward and bare bones story I've seen in a RPG in recent memory.  It also felt incredibly short.  But maybe it felt like that because the various sidequests didn't seem as plentiful as prior FO games (if you don't count the endlessly repeating quests).

 

I can't complain too much, as I did finish it and had fun playing through.  But if we're talking strictly about story and depth of quests, I actually think this falls below FO3.  And that's sort of saying something considering FO3 wasn't exactly a masterpiece of storytelling.

[Gorgon]

Certainly falls below Skyrim anyway. What\s that saying. You are only as good as your last release. The quest structure is generally pretty bad. Maybe a problem with their tools ?. They certianly had enough time to work on that. Tried playing again recently but I didn't finish this time either. 

 

Maybe it's the general mood. Can't figure out what it's supposed to be. It's neither funny or gloomy. The NPCs are pretty non engaging. They have a defining characteristic. I am a Ghoul, BOS knight, Girl with a scottish accent, whatever, and a few lines of back story that are given out painfully slowly if you meticulously suit your playstyle to do whatever gameplay action they like. They are a chore you feel like you have to go through to see if there is anything interesting on the other side.

 

There isn't.

[Hurlshort]

Huh, I wasn't a fan of Skyrim's story either.

 

I think I liked the start of Fallout 4 better than most Bethesda titles.  But once I entered that first town, it went downhill.  I haven't finished the story, I figure I'll get around to it over the next 7 years.

[Humanoid]

Skyrim's was easily ignored though. What's that Balgruuf? Go see the dragon attack? Yeah no thanks, I'm going to go do my own thing for the next 100 hours. Fallout 4's overly personal story just doesn't work with the style of game Bethesda makes. And the mistake can be traced to the very first step: the decision to have the player character be a pre-war survivor. It's superficially an interesting idea to explore, but in no way does Bethesda have the chops to pull it off successfully.

 

I haven't played it for a couple weeks at least now, and have no urge at all to give it another shot. Skyrim remains the only Bethesda game I can say I genuinely had fun playing. Comparing Fallout 3 to Fallout 4 is trickier. Fallout 3 was flimsy but I think its central conceit bothered me less (I think they reserved the worst of their writing for the DLC). On the other hand, Fallout 4 has colours other than green and grey. In the end, I played them for about the same amount of time, 10-15 hours, before giving up.

[GhostofAnakin]

Certainly falls below Skyrim anyway. What\s that saying. You are only as good as your last release. The quest structure is generally pretty bad. Maybe a problem with their tools ?. They certianly had enough time to work on that. Tried playing again recently but I didn't finish this time either. 

 

Maybe it's the general mood. Can't figure out what it's supposed to be. It's neither funny or gloomy. The NPCs are pretty non engaging. They have a defining characteristic. I am a Ghoul, BOS knight, Girl with a scottish accent, whatever, and a few lines of back story that are given out painfully slowly if you meticulously suit your playstyle to do whatever gameplay action they like. They are a chore you feel like you have to go through to see if there is anything interesting on the other side.

 

There isn't.

 

Agreed on the NPCs.  They had a backstory, but it was so bare bones, and you had to jump through hoops just to get to it, with pretty much zero payoff.  Cool, you got a perk if you maxed your affection with them.  But the actual payoff in terms of learning about who they are was disappointing.

 

Then again, I think this goes in hand with the overall lack of dialogue/exposition/conversations you could have with all NPCs because of Bethesda's (odd) decision to water down that part of the game.

 

I also noticed there was very little choice and consequence this time around, with regards to various factions/quests.  Sure, at the end you had to pick a side, but before that?  In previous FO games, often times you could do quests multiple ways.  In FO4, it felt like when you got a quest, you did it and then collected your XP and reward.  Hell, compare that even to FO3 (since we're comparing Bethesda to Bethesda/Apples to apples), where you could decide to disarm that giant bomb or set it off, or you could decide to allow ghouls to live in that apartment building or not.  Choice and consequence for your choice.  This time around, nothing.

[Longknife]

Huh, I wasn't a fan of Skyrim's story either.

 

 

I was ****ing livid when the final boss involved me screaming "BACAWK" at a cloud for 2 minutes.

 

 

 

Certainly falls below Skyrim anyway. What\s that saying. You are only as good as your last release. The quest structure is generally pretty bad. Maybe a problem with their tools ?. They certianly had enough time to work on that. Tried playing again recently but I didn't finish this time either. 

 

Maybe it's the general mood. Can't figure out what it's supposed to be. It's neither funny or gloomy. The NPCs are pretty non engaging. They have a defining characteristic. I am a Ghoul, BOS knight, Girl with a scottish accent, whatever, and a few lines of back story that are given out painfully slowly if you meticulously suit your playstyle to do whatever gameplay action they like. They are a chore you feel like you have to go through to see if there is anything interesting on the other side.

 

There isn't.

 

Agreed on the NPCs.  They had a backstory, but it was so bare bones, and you had to jump through hoops just to get to it, with pretty much zero payoff.  Cool, you got a perk if you maxed your affection with them.  But the actual payoff in terms of learning about who they are was disappointing.

 

Then again, I think this goes in hand with the overall lack of dialogue/exposition/conversations you could have with all NPCs because of Bethesda's (odd) decision to water down that part of the game.

 

I also noticed there was very little choice and consequence this time around, with regards to various factions/quests.  Sure, at the end you had to pick a side, but before that?  In previous FO games, often times you could do quests multiple ways.  In FO4, it felt like when you got a quest, you did it and then collected your XP and reward.  Hell, compare that even to FO3 (since we're comparing Bethesda to Bethesda/Apples to apples), where you could decide to disarm that giant bomb or set it off, or you could decide to allow ghouls to live in that apartment building or not.  Choice and consequence for your choice.  This time around, nothing.

 

 

 

I was just about to ask you about this.

 

 

You said FO3 is better, I've heard multiple people state it's undeniable FO4 is an upgrade from FO3. I myself? Wasn't so sure, thinking it could go either way. And why?

 

Choice and Consequence. This is the one feature it seems FO3 retains above FO4. Yes, the writing in FO3 is retarded and ridiculous at times, but despite this, you STILL make meaningful choices. Great example, no character in their right mind has any motivation to blow up the Brotherhood of Steel in Broken Steel. It's a stupid evil decision that's incredibly difficult to reasonably justify. Despite this, you do get rather large, tangible differences in gameplay if you make that choice. You might scoff and sigh at how stupid the story is that led you there and how you struggle to explain your character's motives, but all the same you at least have an interest in trying them because you did have full confidence in FO3 to provide choice and consequence on that front.

 

For all FO3's faults with story, it did choice and consequence right. It's just hard to recognize this because of course it could be better, but improvement is always possible, to be fair. More importantly, story reinforces choice and consequence, and the story of FO3 fails so abysmally hard on the "evil" front and the "evil" route that giving such a character motivations is a struggle itself that distracts from how much tangible choice and consequence there is.

 

 

 

I've not played FO4 so I cannot say for certain if FO3 or FO4 is superior, but I too have suspected FO3 would be the superior game in my mind, simply because I value choice and consequence far more than many of the oft-cited improvements of FO4.

 

 

 

Another minor difference is weapon balance. FO3's weapon balance was pre-school levels of balance. The game had a handful of guns that were clearly "the best" and you had little choice in the matter. Lincoln's Repeater, the Android's Plasma Rifle, Alien technology, Vengeance, The Terrible Shotgun, Backwater Rifle, Victory Rifle, etc etc. Total, there's gotta be less than 10 viable choices for end-game if you seek to utilize the most practical weaponry; all others cannot hope to compete with the ones listed.

 

FO4? I've not played and yet I feel 100% confident FO4 is Skyrim 2.0 on the weapons front. Crafted weapons will undoubtedly be superior to anything you might randomly find, and once you've had a chance to play around with crafting a bit, there's undoubtedly a meta stat that, if you're interested in making the best weapon, you include this or that modification.

 

I sincerely think Bethesda needs to review their design philosophy with crafting and with gameplay in general in regards to the "let the player do anything" mentality. I would attribute a lack of traits (oh my god!!! a negative downside!! Heaven forbid anything bad ever befall the player!) alongside the weapon crafting system to this. It's unfortunate because I think balancing crafting alongside unique weapons you find is totally feasible. Give crafting domain over stats such as crit rate or crit damage or scopes + accuracy while uniques get domain over AP cost and the like, and suddenly the use of crafting will depend upon your character.

[HoonDing]

It's a good game but it didn't wow me. Neither did Witcher 3.

 

Did Skyrim wow me 4 years ago? I don't even remember. I guess it did.