Triple Crown Paladin Playthrough

[Boeroer]

Right - picking cruel and aggressive is really easy. Clever & passionate is also ok. Stoic and rational are hard because the answers are a lot likec the ones that do nothing. And sometimes honsest answers can be mixed up with stoic or rational. Benevolent is easy to spot.

[Raven Darkholme]

The only Paladin i played so far is the one Vorad suggests (also called Anvil of Dawn). He's great for a main character, unlocking the best conversation dialogues. He's probably the strongest tank you can make in the game as well, while providing superb utility, only issue is you deal virtually no damage, until level 13 at least. But personally, i wouldn't play Pally main on TC, unless you know the dialogues by heart, otherwise it's very hard to consistently improve your Faith and Conviction.

So much BS, how can a pally with no reflex def at all, be a good tank?

[AlexDeLarge]

https://imgur.com/L3gIhf2  Does that look like no reflex def at all? I see it as very respectable, and all the other stats are through the roof, and this is without level 14 and any extra buffs. And if you're worried about reflex anyway, you can always equip a Ring of Thorns to solve that issue.

Edited December 4, 2015 by AlexDeLarge

[Raven Darkholme]

https://imgur.com/L3gIhf2  Does that look like no reflex def at all? I see it as very respectable, and all the other stats are through the roof, and this is without level 14 and any extra buffs. And if you're worried about reflex anyway, you can always equip a Ring of Thorns to solve that issue.

lol

81, are you serious?

That's 100(!) points too few for Adra Dragon. :D:D:D

Crits all days.

 

I think even my cipher solo potd had more reflex than that without having any ability close to F+C.

[AlexDeLarge]

 

https://imgur.com/L3gIhf2  Does that look like no reflex def at all? I see it as very respectable, and all the other stats are through the roof, and this is without level 14 and any extra buffs. And if you're worried about reflex anyway, you can always equip a Ring of Thorns to solve that issue.

lol

81, are you serious?

That's 100(!) points too few for Adra Dragon. :D:D:D

Crits all days.

 

I think even my cipher solo potd had more reflex than that without having any ability close to F+C.

 

 

Look at my TC thread at the Adra Dragon screenshot. I had about same or even less Reflex on my tanks there, see how much dmg i took by the end.

[Raven Darkholme]

 

 

https://imgur.com/L3gIhf2  Does that look like no reflex def at all? I see it as very respectable, and all the other stats are through the roof, and this is without level 14 and any extra buffs. And if you're worried about reflex anyway, you can always equip a Ring of Thorns to solve that issue.

lol

81, are you serious?

That's 100(!) points too few for Adra Dragon. :D:D:D

Crits all days.

 

I think even my cipher solo potd had more reflex than that without having any ability close to F+C.

 

 

Look at my TC thread at the Adra Dragon screenshot. I had about same or even less Reflex on my tanks there, see how much dmg i took by the end.

 

But that was not due to your tanks being awesome tanks.

Maybe tank means something different to you than me.

[AlexDeLarge]

All i can tell you is that, during my Pally playthrough, i was actually concerned that he isn't taking ENOUGH damage, instead my party was hurting more. But that's mostly because of this new AI that targets the squishies. So overall, i don't recommend making a pure tank anymore, but if i were to make one, i would build him just like last time, seems the best way to go about it.

[Raven Darkholme]

Pro tip: solo on PoTD and you will see why this is no tank.

You didn't only take less damage because of the AI targeting squshies, but also because a party kills mobs way faster.

[AlexDeLarge]

Why are you talking about solo when OP clearly states he wants to play with a party? Also, i personally don't care for solo runs so that point is moot.

[Raven Darkholme]

Why are you talking about solo when OP clearly states he wants to play with a party? Also, i personally don't care for solo runs so that point is moot.

I was not quoting the op but your post stating a 3 DE + PE char is the best tank.

[AlexDeLarge]

Yes, for a party run, not in a vacuum.

[JerekKruger]

Right - picking cruel and aggressive is really easy. Clever & passionate is also ok. Stoic and rational are hard because the answers are a lot likec the ones that do nothing. And sometimes honsest answers can be mixed up with stoic or rational. Benevolent is easy to spot.

 

The one stoic option you're usually safe with is "[say nothing]" but yeah, apart from that it's quite difficult.

[Raven Darkholme]

Yes, for a party run, not in a vacuum.

You avoid the issue, a tank is only a tank if it can avoid damage.

By having the most important defense vs breath attacks and many spells super lowa you do the opposite of tanking so you have to cheese around getting hit by dragons breath.

I'm not saying anything against your playstyle my first pala cheesed around tanking the dragon, too, not because of breath but his deflection was too low (had around 150).

When I played my party of three chicks I truly tanked the adra with my pally, while fighter and cipher mopped up all the adds (I initiated combat via dialogue). Then the cipher proceeded to disintegrate the dragon which wasn't even that easy and I failed a few times cause I either got hit by breath or wings with the cipher until I realised I only need to attack it from the back. Two disintegrates later the dragon was gone and my pally was starting to not have max endurance anymore. :D (Fight took at least 10 minutes and pally facetanked all the time.)

[AlexDeLarge]

Do you realize what a non-issue we're discussing here? If you're worried specifically about dragons, just respec for max value before the dragon fights.

[Kaylon]

Playing with 18mig and 3per makes no sense to me either. Not only you can't be a real tank, but you're also gimping  the ability to deal damage, to interrupt and to hold aggro. What's the point to have so much might when you're barely able to hit? 

[AlexDeLarge]

The 18 might is not for dmg, but for healing (you're also moon godlike, so it affects both lay on hands and the racial). Besides, i didn't even invent that build. NerdCommando, one of the most proficient players, did.

[Raven Darkholme]

Well boohoo for him.

[Blades of Vanatar]

 

 

I really like an option to roll stats. ToEE did a great job with ita different character creation options for the gamer's various likes and playstyles.

So you are saying since the game doesn't have the option just roll my own stats on go with what I get? That would be fun lol

Im just an old school tabletop RPGer. I love rolling for stats. But I will admit that I dont know what the perfect starting stat plus roll option would be. I would think the devs wanted something unique... who knows...

[Vorad]

Pro tip: solo on PoTD and you will see why this is no tank.

You didn't only take less damage because of the AI targeting squshies, but also because a party kills mobs way faster.

Pro tip: From someone who only plays potd, if you really think reflex is better than fortitude or will AND if you really think having average stats overall is better than maximizing on the most valuable ones for a tank(deflection, fortitude, will) then you should really stop using console on your "potd" runs.

 

I have stated carefully on my last post but you were busy trolling it seems: The really nasty stuff(like many afflictions paralyze/petrify or dominate) target fortitude/will while persistent damage targets deflection most of time and by maxing those yes you guessed it you become a ... tank. Would it be even better if we could max reflex as well? Yes it would and guess what maxing all stats at 18 would have been even better! In an actual game however you have two options either go average stats overall or min/max. While average stats might be ok vs all creatures in easy/hard in potd is a different story. It's really easy to grasp the concept just google simplex algorithm/linear programming it's all there for the past 100 years.

 

As for the breath attacks from dragon that target reflex, with faith and conviction + scroll of defense  reflex is more than enough to cause a graze add in there moon goodlike with max strength and you are at 100% hp right after the dragon wasted his breath. Yes that's right that's why might is maximized in that build 1) better fortitude 2) better healing from racial + lay on hands + chain healing 3) better damage on sacred immolation.

 

If you really like roleplaying then sure go with 12 might, 13 con, 12 dex, 13 perception, maybe 15 resolve, 12 intellect you could carry a 2hander as main weapon I'm sure it will do wonders in potd or TC solo for what matters. Then again after a while the difficulty even of most hard encounters drops dramatically due to meta gaming.

 

Again I have already taken the time to actually answer to the obvious question in my first post before those were even being asked. But people are busy trolling and flaming based on fallacies instead. Therefore I will just repeat by quoting myself and for the really lazy ones and trolly ones and flaming ones I have already highlighted the important parts so it's as easy as kindergarten.

 

gl hf!!!

 

Paladin suffers from the same issues he suffers in earlier games of the gender and dnd before that. You need good stats overall in order to be able to do everything good overall which is impossible to achieve to begin with. I think one cannot hope to be able to defend at the same time cause weapon damage and on top of that have enough utility synergy in the same build... in the end the character will end up mediocre. I personally have given up the idea of melee damage on paladin simply because first of all there are classes which can do it better and secondly because there are things that paladin can do better than others and that's his defensive potential and his utility overall. Therefore personally I try to capitalize on these two aspects which in stats reflects to max might, resolve, intellect, remaining in constitution. Accuracy through perception is not a big deal because you get a +6 accuracy aura to add further that's 6 points of stats spent to increase accuracy substituted by a single talent and furthermore there are many cheap ways of increasing your accuracy in game many spells and scroll of valor(+15 accuracy aoe) comes to mind. You can't increase your might or your intellect that easily as for resolve especially if your main is a paladin that will be very useful. Dexterity mostly affects either attack damage dealers more damage if you swing your weapon more frequently obiously(and as said earlier there are classes that can do it better) or spell casters spamming spells and paladin doesn't belong on any of these categories therefore going for dex again in my personal opinion is a waste.

 

usually:

mig 18

con 15

dex 3

per 3

int 18

res 18

(one could opt for a balanced spread between con, dex, per but after the buff to con and fortitude being more important than reflex I opt for con instead).

 

In late-game with sacred immolation(+ flame utility talent) you will be able to dish out a decent amount of aoe damage without even needing to spam spells or swing weapons wildly and maxing int + might would certainly help while at the same time you are as sturdy vs damage as a... tank. Add in there moon goodlike racial and you're good to go. The only drawback would be lower reflex but usually the nasty stuff attacks your fortitude and will to begin with so that won't be a problem add in there faith and conviction and reflex gets back to average which is more than enough.

 

The only case where I would consider dumping intellect as a viable option might be in a solo run and even then I'm not sure because although in early game you don't gain that much from intellect in lategame it becomes really viable(so perhaps a respec before and after Act 1 might be in order)

 

EDIT:

 

Before Act 1-2 you could go with a heavy melee spec max might,perception with flames of devotion with dual sabres for really nice alphas and after Act 1-2 one might switch to the above build for more sustain and lategame potential.

[Torm51]

 

Pro tip: solo on PoTD and you will see why this is no tank.

You didn't only take less damage because of the AI targeting squshies, but also because a party kills mobs way faster.

Pro tip: From someone who only plays potd, if you really think reflex is better than fortitude or will AND if you really think having average stats overall is better than maximizing on the most valuable ones for a tank(deflection, fortitude, will) then you should really stop using console on your "potd" runs.

 

I have stated carefully on my last post but you were busy trolling it seems: The really nasty stuff(like many afflictions paralyze/petrify or dominate) target fortitude/will while persistent damage targets deflection most of time and by maxing those yes you guessed it you become a ... tank. Would it be even better if we could max reflex as well? Yes it would and guess what maxing all stats at 18 would have been even better! In an actual game however you have two options either go average stats overall or min/max. While average stats might be ok vs all creatures in easy/hard in potd is a different story. It's really easy to grasp the concept just google simplex algorithm/linear programming it's all there for the past 100 years.

 

As for the breath attacks from dragon that target reflex, with faith and conviction + scroll of defense  reflex is more than enough to cause a graze add in there moon goodlike with max strength and you are at 100% hp right after the dragon wasted his breath. Yes that's right that's why might is maximized in that build 1) better fortitude 2) better healing from racial + lay on hands + chain healing 3) better damage on sacred immolation.

 

If you really like roleplaying then sure go with 12 might, 13 con, 12 dex, 13 perception, maybe 15 resolve, 12 intellect you could carry a 2hander as main weapon I'm sure it will do wonders in potd or TC solo for what matters. Then again after a while the difficulty even of most hard encounters drops dramatically due to meta gaming.

 

Again I have already taken the time to actually answer to the obvious question in my first post before those were even being asked. But people are busy trolling and flaming based on fallacies instead. Therefore I will just repeat by quoting myself and for the really lazy ones and trolly ones and flaming ones I have already highlighted the important parts so it's as easy as kindergarten.

 

gl hf!!!

 

Paladin suffers from the same issues he suffers in earlier games of the gender and dnd before that. You need good stats overall in order to be able to do everything good overall which is impossible to achieve to begin with. I think one cannot hope to be able to defend at the same time cause weapon damage and on top of that have enough utility synergy in the same build... in the end the character will end up mediocre. I personally have given up the idea of melee damage on paladin simply because first of all there are classes which can do it better and secondly because there are things that paladin can do better than others and that's his defensive potential and his utility overall. Therefore personally I try to capitalize on these two aspects which in stats reflects to max might, resolve, intellect, remaining in constitution. Accuracy through perception is not a big deal because you get a +6 accuracy aura to add further that's 6 points of stats spent to increase accuracy substituted by a single talent and furthermore there are many cheap ways of increasing your accuracy in game many spells and scroll of valor(+15 accuracy aoe) comes to mind. You can't increase your might or your intellect that easily as for resolve especially if your main is a paladin that will be very useful. Dexterity mostly affects either attack damage dealers more damage if you swing your weapon more frequently obiously(and as said earlier there are classes that can do it better) or spell casters spamming spells and paladin doesn't belong on any of these categories therefore going for dex again in my personal opinion is a waste.

 

usually:

mig 18

con 15

dex 3

per 3

int 18

res 18

(one could opt for a balanced spread between con, dex, per but after the buff to con and fortitude being more important than reflex I opt for con instead).

 

In late-game with sacred immolation(+ flame utility talent) you will be able to dish out a decent amount of aoe damage without even needing to spam spells or swing weapons wildly and maxing int + might would certainly help while at the same time you are as sturdy vs damage as a... tank. Add in there moon goodlike racial and you're good to go. The only drawback would be lower reflex but usually the nasty stuff attacks your fortitude and will to begin with so that won't be a problem add in there faith and conviction and reflex gets back to average which is more than enough.

 

The only case where I would consider dumping intellect as a viable option might be in a solo run and even then I'm not sure because although in early game you don't gain that much from intellect in lategame it becomes really viable(so perhaps a respec before and after Act 1 might be in order)

 

EDIT:

 

Before Act 1-2 you could go with a heavy melee spec max might,perception with flames of devotion with dual sabres for really nice alphas and after Act 1-2 one might switch to the above build for more sustain and lategame potential.

 

I appreciate the words and advice I believe it is solid.  Raven is a good dude I think just when people type things get taken differently then they are meant.

 

I am going to take your advice while at the same time not being so "min/maxed" as I RP a bit.  I did a successful PARTY (not solo If I ever solo it will be min/max I just don't like solo for RP reasons). PoTD/ToI run with a 12 Might, 14 Con, 16 Int and 16 Res with the rest being 10.  He was good defensively and support wise but did not have good accuracy against high defense mobs like ghosts (cant have everything as you said).  I will say that with Flames of Devotion and some accuracy buffs he WAS good at alpha striking and scoring kills.  He actually had the second largest single damage hit of the party which was an FoD with the Firebrand Gloves.  It was a 110+ hit.  Also he would consistently hit for 70+ with FoD which isn't bad at all.  He also annihilated the alpine Dragon as it is weak to fire.  After I cced him even my defensive Paladin was able to score big hits.

 

I do agree with your assessment that a Paladin should just toss in the towel when it comes to dps but it doesn't mean he cant Alpha strike to score kills and still his main job which is to play offensive line for your back line and support the group.

 

This is what I came up with.

 

Might 12

 

Con 15

 

Dex 10

 

Per 10

 

Int 14

 

Res 18

 

I could also drop 2 Dex (not to min maxy and take another 2 Might for a bit more damage/healing and more Fort which is my second most important defense).

[Raven Darkholme]

@Vorad

Your answer is sadly very dumb.

I don't use console and I don't have the kind of stats you suggested I have.

I'm not even gonna bother and read the rest you wrote.

[Torm51]

That build is similar to my last Paladin with stats BUT with a key difference and that is this guy will have Zealous Focus and a Weapon Focus.  that's +12 more acc.  I will in general be taking offensive talents other then weapon and shield style.  I go one handed for my alpha strikes it will be +24 more ACC.  Less damage then 2 handers but high rolls with Vulnerable attack the damage will be good for a durable front liner I think. 

 

I think If I want to use a 2hander for those Alpha strikes +12 more ACC isn't going to cut it.  I would have to drop 5 points somewhere and put 5 into Per.  So like a 15 Resolve, 13 INT, 14 CON and a 15 PER.  12 might and the rest 10.  Thoughts?

Edited December 4, 2015 by Torm51

[mosspit]

I think that is very kind wayfarer of you 

[Torm51]

Funny I was thinking another Order as my first successful PotD/ToI was a Kind Wayfarer.  Was thinking of Going Bleak Walker and grabbing The Black Path for Alpha Strike kills with debuffs.  Along with a debuffing weapon like Strike Hard this can make for a very useful tank.  I just feel like Sword and the Shepherd and Strange Mercy scale terribly.  In the early game they are good but in the late game its like a droplet of water in your massive sea of HP.  Where a Frightened debuff is always good.  Or ya Maybe I will just roll a Wayfarer again as Benevolent and Passionate are easy to know in a TC run.  That being said Cruel and Aggressive is easy too.  Both work.  All of them are pretty easy to guess in a TC run except Stoic, Rational and Diplomatic.  that's imo.

[mosspit]

It was more of me doing a tongue-in-cheek with regards to your mediation efforts lol

 

Tbh, the orders aren't really THAT important. I particularly don't think highly of on-kill effects as I don't see them as triggering when you exactly need it. But again that's just me and yes Sword and the Shephard is probably 1 of the better on-kill effects. Diplomacy is actually quite easy too. Pallegina's questline is loaded with Diplomacy answers. That encounter with Agosi alone will probably raise it by 1 rank . After which, the answers are normally about alternative solutions about seeking help somewhere else or finding a non-violent solution.