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 What does your usual initial attribute set up look like on your Paladins?  My first successful PoTD/Trial of Iron run was with a Kind Wayfarer who was pretty much a support paladin with 2 exhortations and LoH.  He only had 12 Might and a 14 Con but the damage was decent just cause FoD hits hard as long as it lands..My complaint about him was that in fights with enemies that you cannot really engage effectively (IE teleporting ghosts in Durgans Battery etc) his accuracy was not high enough against hard to hit ghosts and I felt that he was not as effective in these fights as all he could really do was toss support abilities in turn only doing half of his job (the other being holding the line).  With a 2hander his accuracy was obviously average even with ZF.

 

So for my next build I don't think more might does much (well some you get more Fort) as I was fine with his damage.  I need more accuracy for those fights.  I was thinking go Duelist for the +12 with high damage one handers like sabers.  I just cant seem to put points into PER at character creation and leave it at 10.  I think Paladins in PoE suffer the same issue that Paladins have in Baldurs Gate and that is a large stat spread as they can really use every stat.

Edited by Torm51

Have gun will travel.

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I really like an option to roll stats. ToEE did a great job with ita different character creation options for the gamer's various likes and playstyles.

So you are saying since the game doesn't have the option just roll my own stats on go with what I get?  That would be fun lol

Have gun will travel.

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I used a pally with these stats for my 2 recent playthroughs. Previous was a triple crown no-casters (Pally main, Eder, Rogue, Monk, Barb, Ranger). Ranger was the only ranged char in that playthrough. Current is an all-melee party PotD/ToI (Pally main, Eder, Monk, Barb, Cipher and Priest). I am pretty comfortable with the stat spread but it kinda depends on your party composition and what kind of restrictions you impose.

M:13 C:14 D:10 P:12 I:12 R:17

I mainly used Shieldbearer and Darcozzi. I think if you have a Priest, accuracy is definitely not an issue. Between Blessing, Devotions of the Faithful and Crown of the Faithful, your accuracy should be good enough. Maybe add in a Scroll of Valor if necessary (Blessing still has that 10% dmg increase). Also if you have a Priest, drop ZF. It is not worthwhile.

Btw, maybe you mean single hander instead of duelist? Because only single hander will confer that +12 acc. Mine is almost always a shield wielder. Find it difficult to have a pally and not use the Outworn Buckler lol.

Edited by mosspit
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I used a pally with these stats for my 2 recent playthroughs. Previous was a triple crown no-casters (Pally main, Eder, Rogue, Monk, Barb, Ranger). Ranger was the only ranged char in that playthrough. Current is an all-melee party PotD/ToI (Pally main, Eder, Monk, Barb, Cipher and Priest). I am pretty comfortable with the stat spread but it kinda depends on your party composition and what kind of restrictions you impose.

 

M:13 C:14 D:10 P:12 I:12 R:17

 

I mainly used Shieldbearer and Darcozzi. I think if you have a Priest, accuracy is definitely not an issue. Between Blessing, Devotions of the Faithful and Crown of the Faithful, your accuracy should be good enough. Maybe add in a Scroll of Valor if necessary (Blessing still has that 10% dmg increase). Also if you have a Priest, drop ZF. It is not worthwhile.

 

Btw, maybe you mean single hander instead of duelist? Because only single hander will confer that +12 acc. Mine is almost always a shield wielder. Find it difficult to have a pally and not use the Outworn Buckler lol.

Ya I meant single hander just for times I want to alpha strike bad guys with FoD more ACC to guarantee good damage.  Most of the time he will be a shield wearer.  I like the spread of your stats.  The 2 PER I am not sure about as its just +2 ACC but its not a make or break anywhere else with those 2 points anyway.  Did you find it hard to get the correct dialogue options an expert mode?  I am sure some orders are easier then others.

 

Thing is all of those priest buffs are AWESOME but they are per encounter other then blessing and you have to wait until level 9. Also ZF gets you the hit to graze and it a pre buff before a battle starts so those first alpha strike ranged shots will have the + 6 ACC and hit to graze.   You could also say the same for ZE expect armor of faith doesn't have the hit to graze and cant be casted before combat.  You could take Zealous Charge if you have a priest.  I am a big fan but still I don't think the priest buffs completely replace Paladin auras.

Edited by Torm51

Have gun will travel.

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For the 2 Per, I thought about that for some time before deciding. The 2 stat points came from Mig and Res as I felt I didn't need that much points in those. Tbh, they could have put in Dex but I wanted a higher Per in case it matters if enemies decided to disengage from the Pally if Per was lower. For expert mode, I did a trial run and compiled a simple dialogue cheat sheet original.gif It only runs up to mid of D. Bay but with it one can reliably get the 3 ranks in fav disposition by that point. After which, it is about avoiding the unfav answers which is easier to judge. Plus I got lazy tongue.png If you want, I can link the spreadsheet here but you have to pardon the poor formatting and readability of the data.

 

For ZF, I agree with your assessment and I might be a tad critical. In fact, in my runs I found that ZF led to early games that were smoother than if I chose ZE. Early game ZF enables the faster thinning of enemy mobs to make things more manageable. Mid to late game, the flat bonuses fall off as both acc and DR are too easily suppressed so what's left are the %conversions. So it depends on which conversions you value more and which categories of rolls happen more often. I normally plan my talents and skills selection based on key encounters and not 95% of the other trash encounters. After all it is those key encounters that carries the most risk to ruining a TC or ToI playthrough. Trash encounters can be done more efficiently but usually don't carry that kind of risks. For key encounters, I found ZE's conversions more useful as my playstyle is tad more conservative and focused more on survivability. And for key encounters, alpha strikes are unlikely (although the option to attack when enemy is still neutral is present) and those encounters can be potentially lengthy, which lessen the impact of alpha strikes. One should also see if for those key encounters, which occurs more often? Your character grazing the enemy or the enemy scoring a hit on your characters? And choose accordingly... or choose ZC original.gif

Edited by mosspit
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Are you talking solo or in a party?

My solo pala (no ToI) has maxed PE, obviously I had to dump stuff, went with IN 3 and 6 DE.

PE for me seems essential on a pala, he has not the greatest damage to begin with, missing hits is not good.

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Honestly I often forget they're even a thing.

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Agreed but from my last successful ToI.PoTD I felt that 10 PER was enough if I would have augmented my ACC differently..Also since I am not solo I have team to help me with it....So what are you guys suggesting increase PER?  Cause yes like I said I would have liked to some more ACC that was my only gripe with the build.  I don't dump stats when I am not soloing so what to do....something like?  A lot of people say that with a group a Paladin really doesn't need the Per.  what do you guys think.

 

Going for a Pale elf in my Triple Crown Playthrough (first time I ever play an elf ever but Pale Elfs look cool and have bad ass racials).  Thing with this build is that my Might and Int aren't very high so my LoH and Exhortations (only going to take reviving in this build) are crappy.  If I go single Handed and take a weapon focus I can still get a high ACC with a 10 PER.  Opinions?  Also since I am not playing a Coastal Amaeu this time my FORT will be meh as well.  Lastly, since Paladins have a high natural resolve I could dump it more to like 13 but man playing a low Resolve Paladin is weird..its like THE stat when I think Paladin but I guess we aren't talking RP here.  Although its a good stat for Will defense and Dialogue.

 

Might 12

 

Con 14

 

Dex 10

 

Per 15

 

Int 12

 

Res 15

Edited by Torm51

Have gun will travel.

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I guess I could dump DEX a little bit?  I am not completely opposed to dumping a stat as long as its not something ridiculous like 3 ;) no offense Raven I know its sometimes necessary in a Solo run.  Still Int and Might or pretty low so LoH is going to be mediocre...maybe that's OK?  It still pretty strong with a 10 INT.  hell Paladins dump the hell out of Int on Solo runs and the LoH is still enough but I am not soloing so better aura size is good...once again I am going heavy melee so I don't need huge INT...ok I am talking to myself at this point you guys let me know lol

Edited by Torm51

Have gun will travel.

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I guess I could dump DEX a little bit?  I am not completely opposed to dumping a stat as long as its not something ridiculous like 3 ;) no offense Raven I know its sometimes necessary in a Solo run.  Still Int and Might or pretty low so LoH is going to be mediocre...maybe that's OK?  It still pretty strong with a 10 INT.  hell Paladins dump the hell out of Int on Solo runs and the LoH is still enough but I am not soloing so better aura size is good...once again I am going heavy melee so I don't need huge INT...ok I am talking to myself at this point you guys let me know lol

7 DEX and 10 INT, you can pump DEX to 10 with a DEX item.

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Ya seems like that will be the route.  Dump dex to 7 and get it to 10 with an enchantment  and as much as I hate it I will leave int at 10.  Support abilities will be good enough and a melee heavy party will def be in range of my aura.  Boots of Zealous command will help.  High INT is for a more support based Paladin like my original ToI/PoTD winner.  If I want to be more martial INT will have to be base.  Cant have both.  I just hated those Spirit fights on harder parts of the Endless Paths and Durgans Battery and being subpar cause my ACC was not good enough.  I got through it obviously as I beat the game and against dragons and normal enemies that I could engage it was a great build.  A bit more martial this time!

Have gun will travel.

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If you want a Pally that is tad offensive, I would not want to dump Dex. DPS is about dmg, accuracy and frequency of hitting. Dex is a general speed modifier. Normally you can only get modifiers from items that affect 1 aspect like attack speed or recovery.And Dex affects other actions apart from attacking. Personally I feel Dex and Per are on the same level of importance offensively with Mig trailing behind.

 

7 Dex and 10 Int could work. How martial is your team going to be?

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Paladin suffers from the same issues he suffers in earlier games of the gender and dnd before that. You need good stats overall in order to be able to do everything good overall which is impossible to achieve to begin with. I think one cannot hope to be able to defend at the same time cause weapon damage and on top of that have enough utility synergy in the same build... in the end the character will end up mediocre. I personally have given up the idea of melee damage on paladin simply because first of all there are classes which can do it better and secondly because there are things that paladin can do better than others and that's his defensive potential and his utility overall. Therefore personally I try to capitalize on these two aspects which in stats reflects to max might, resolve, intellect, remaining in constitution. Accuracy through perception is not a big deal because you get a +6 accuracy aura and furthermore there are many cheap ways of increasing your accuracy in game many spells and scroll of valor(+15 accuracy aoe) comes to mind. You can't increase your might or your intellect that easily as for resolve especially if your main is a paladin that will be very useful. Dexterity mostly affects either attack damage dealers(and as said earlier there are classes that can do it better) or spell casters spamming spells and paladin doesn't belong on any of these categories therefore going for dex again in my personal opinion is a waste.

 

usually:

mig 18

con 15

dex 3

per 3

int 18

res 18

(one could opt for a balanced spread between con, dex, per but after the buff to con and fortitude being more important than reflex I opt for con instead).

 

In late-game with sacred immolation(+ flame utility talent) you will be able to dish out a decent amount of aoe damage without even needing to spam spells or swing weapons wildly and maxing int + might would certainly help while at the same time you are as sturdy vs damage as a... tank. Add in there moon goodlike racial and you're good to go. The only drawback would be lower reflex but usually the nasty stuff attacks your fortitude and will to begin with so that won't be a problem add in there faith and conviction and reflex gets back to average which is more than enough.

 

The only case where I would consider dumping intellect as a viable option might be in a solo run and even then I'm not sure because although in early game you don't gain that much from intellect in lategame it becomes really viable(so perhaps a respec before and after Act 1 might be in order)

 

EDIT:

 

Before Act 1-2 you could go with a heavy melee spec max might,perception with flames of devotion with dual sabres for really nice alphas and after Act 1-2 one might switch to the above build for more sustain and lategame potential.

Edited by Vorad
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If you have a party minmaxing isn't needed. The purpose of a paladin in a party is tanking and support, thus investing heavily in might isn't needed. Personally I would let everything at 10 and then increase equally the stared stats like suggested by the developpers. More important than the stats are the talents you pick - ie auras, exhortations and defensive talents.

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The only Paladin i played so far is the one Vorad suggests (also called Anvil of Dawn). He's great for a main character, unlocking the best conversation dialogues. He's probably the strongest tank you can make in the game as well, while providing superb utility, only issue is you deal virtually no damage, until level 13 at least. But personally, i wouldn't play Pally main on TC, unless you know the dialogues by heart, otherwise it's very hard to consistently improve your Faith and Conviction.

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The only Paladin i played so far is the one Vorad suggests (also called Anvil of Dawn). He's great for a main character, unlocking the best conversation dialogues. He's probably the strongest tank you can make in the game as well, while providing superb utility, only issue is you deal virtually no damage, until level 13 at least. But personally, i wouldn't play Pally main on TC, unless you know the dialogues by heart, otherwise it's very hard to consistently improve your Faith and Conviction.

This is my only worry but I got half way through a game of TC once (restarted cause I didn't like the build) with a goldpact knight and I was 2 of 2 for stoic and rational. I think if you play a wayfarer or a bleak walker it's easy.

Edited by Torm51

Have gun will travel.

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