All the Literature and Reading Stuff...

[kgambit]

Glen Cook's Black Company series is worthwhile for that different look at fantasy.

 

It does add a certain flair of grim-darkness, and it has a lot of Vietnam parallels for a fantasy world. It has that blending of dark fantasy and epic fantasy, having the central characters being the small group of mercenaries that due to political circumstances end up working for the "Dark Lord" element in the setting. It also had a certain level of humour that works quite well. However, I will say that some of the later books in the series get a bit hm, I'd almost say wrapped up in themselves.

 

It's pretty much three separate but linked series that cover around 40 odd years of the elite mercenary group. The initial trilogy, the Books of the North focuses on the main characters of the company and their work for the "Dark Lord" type and the shenanigans involved. A follow-on duology that has the company following its 400 year history to rediscover where they originally come from, and then a finale tetralogy that I found not as entertaining but pulls together a lot of strands from all the previous books and chronicles the destiny of the company.

There was also a sort of stand-alone book that orbits the series as a whole, and is about some beloved company members who left the group at a certain stage in the story and charts what happened to them.

 

+1   The Black Company is definitely worth a read.  You'll know by the end of the first book whether it's really your cup of tea or not.   Cook next series is entitled "The Instrumentalities of the Night".  It's a 4 book series -  in order:

 

1. The Tyranny of the Night;
2. Lord of the Silent Kingdom;
3. Surrender to the Will of the Night and
4. Working God's Mischief.

Cook's world in the latest series is modeled after Medieval Europe - from Norway to Egypt and the Barbary Coast and from Spain/Castile to Damascus and the Byzantine Empire.  

[Gromnir]

 

 

Can anyone recommend a book or series with a lot of political intrigue in a fantasy setting that has an atypical plot progression? As in no "heroes journey" to find the magical sword and defeat the dark lord kind of crap. 

is fantasy essential?  our personal and frequent shared opinion is that the vast majority o' scifi is not worthy o' distinction from fantasy.  scifi and fantasy were convenient labels for the sellers o' pulp magazines and books back in the mid 20th century, but is no meaningful distinction... with admitted few exceptions.  true speculative fiction is kinda rare and am not certain it requires a unique genre label even so.  sure, asimov, kim stanley robinson, arthur c. clarke, and a handful o' others is genuine predicting the impact o' future technologies on human culture, but for the most part, scifi is ray guns, spaceships and aliens... aliens who is fundamental human in terms o' motives and behaviors in spite o' their differing physical appearance. star wars, for example, is fantasy regardless o' the presence o' space travel, yes?

 

reason we ask is 'cause even when scifi is being little more than fantasy, it tends towards the stuff that interests gd. still gotta be careful.  dune, which gd has likely read, has got loads o' political intrigue, and the series don't begin to suck something terrible until midway through the third book.  even so, paul atreides is clear a hero's journey protagonist, so perhaps it ain't what you is desiring.  if scifi is viable, you might have more options. the moon is a harsh mistress isn't quite as romantic 'bout its subject matter as the fantasy novels you mentioned, but perhaps you find something interesting.  alfred bester's demolished man is not a series, but also read the stars my destination for the invention o' what would eventual become known as cyberpunk.  asimov's robot series starts as quasi mystery novels and ends with your star spanning political intrigue. begin with caves of steel.  ursula k. leguin's left hand of darkness? 

 

is newer material as well.

 

for fantasy.  *shrug*  is not particular profound writing, but as a change o' pace, you might consider matthew woodring stover's caine books.  again, not fantastic writing, but Gromnir gots criticisms on that point regarding rothfuss and his mary stu protagonist, and we never liked a majority o' tolkien. the caine books is set similar to bester's but also is fantasy... and the hero ain't.   even if ain't great writing, is a change o' pace and seeming gots elements you want.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[the_dog_days]

Can anyone recommend a book or series with a lot of political intrigue in a fantasy setting that has an atypical plot progression? As in no "heroes journey" to find the magical sword and defeat the dark lord kind of crap.

Why, in a high fantasy setting where its possible to shoot fireballs, would anyone want a story that is primarily about politics? A bit of intriguing sure, but all politics is like taking awesome and infusing blah. That's the reason I think A Song of Fire and Ice sucks (that and all the violence its applauded for comes in the form of torture porn).

[kirottu]

But, be all that as it may I wanted to climb back on the horse again so I downloaded a sample of the first book of Sanderson's Mistborn series on the Kindle. After 25 pages or so, I'm not sure about it. Has anyone here read it? Does it suck? 

 

I've read it and I really enjoyed it, but...

 

Can anyone recommend a book or series with a lot of political intrigue in a fantasy setting that has an atypical plot progression? As in no "heroes journey" to find the magical sword and defeat the dark lord kind of crap. 

 

It isn't what you're asking for here.

[Vaeliorin]

I don't know whether it really counts as fantasy or science fiction (or maybe science fantasy, as Wikipedia describes it, but that doesn't really seem to fit) but you might be interested in Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun tetralogy. It isn't light reading by any stretch of the imagination, but it is a good series. I wouldn't say it's exactly what you're asking for, but it also really isn't typical hero's journey.

[Leferd]

While not exactly fantasy per se, but I've always been partial to Ivanhoe. It certainly set the standard for some fantasy tropes.

 

Mystery Knights

Swashbucklers

Roguish heroes

Redeemable villain

Strong female

Witty fools

Templars

Hospitallers

Robber Barons

Political intrigue

[Raithe]

If you want to really get into a convoluted series, or even a mix of series, look at Michelle West and the combination of the Sun Sword series along with her House War series.

 

They're all set in the same universe and chronologically kind of crisscross over each other. Sure there is kind of a dark lord in the form of the god turned lord of all demons but its got a bit of a twist, and the majority of the story tends to slide into a mix of dark but not grim fantasy and political shenanigans along with a certain dose of prophecy manipulation (kind of) with the added supernatural mix of demons returning to a world the gods left to avoid destroying.   The Sun Sword series is 6 doorstopper books, and the House War are another batch of doorstopper books. So it's a big plentiful read. But the first three books of  the House War are technically set about 16 years before the start of the Sun Sword, and then the rest pick up after the events of the Sun Sword series. There's a bit of crossover of characters and big plotlines and little plotlines...

[Guard Dog]

Actually I find Sci-Fi more enjoyable than "fantasy". I guess because as a genre it has fewer rules and tropes it is compelled to stick to. Dune was thoroughly enjoyable, the next two slightly less so. After that like Gromnir, and just about everyone else ever, said it really came off the rails. I read Leviathan Wakes in the Expanse series. That was enjoyable too. One thing I really like about it was that is took pains to delve into the effects of generations of humans living in "low G" environments. Details like that are important I think. The story became rather unoriginal as it progressed but it was still good. Sometimes old wine in a new bottle works. I haven't read the second one yet. I hear there is three more books on the way and GRRM has put me off starting a book series until it's completed. 

 

I realize it's not fantasy, well it sort of is, but I enjoyed the Saxon series by Cornwell but after a while it became so repetitive it was like he was writing the same book over and over.

 

I read Scalzi's Old Mans War series. I liked it ok, didn't love it by any means. 

[Guard Dog]

 

But, be all that as it may I wanted to climb back on the horse again so I downloaded a sample of the first book of Sanderson's Mistborn series on the Kindle. After 25 pages or so, I'm not sure about it. Has anyone here read it? Does it suck? 

 

I've read it and I really enjoyed it, but...

 

Can anyone recommend a book or series with a lot of political intrigue in a fantasy setting that has an atypical plot progression? As in no "heroes journey" to find the magical sword and defeat the dark lord kind of crap. 

 

It isn't what you're asking for here.

 

Thanks!

[Guard Dog]

If you have an Amazon Kindle you should sign up for Kindle Unlimited. I just browsed through that section and there is more fantasy and Sci-Fi titles in there than you could read in a lifetime. And they are all free (with the monthly membership). Most of them appear to be self published or more than 20 years old (meaning copyright has lapsed) and they may suck but heck, they are free!

 

I get irritated when I buy a lousy book, but a free on that stinks you just delete it and move on.

[Raithe]

It's one of those interesting areas, you have to wade through a lot of crud, but there are a few gems there. Although even the gems can depend on your tastes and how willing you are to put up with the odd grammar/typo in the book. That and it's nearly always a reminder not to judge the quality of a book by the really crappy cover art.

 

I've found a few incredibly cheesy Mary-Sue type book series that seem to pull me into reading each book in turn even knowing how cheesy bad they are.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I haven't read any fantasy stuff since finishing A Memory of Light so i started looking around. The problem I have with the whole fantasy genre is most of it is just so f-----g awful. A Song of Ice And Fire, Rothfuss's Kingkiller books, and Tolkiens work are the only ones I've ever really liked. Terry Goodkind never had an original thought in his life, Terry Brooks just re-wrote Lord of the Rings for all intents and purposes and the rest just reads like it was written for children.

 

But, be all that as it may I wanted to climb back on the horse again so I downloaded a sample of the first book of Sanderson's Mistborn series on the Kindle. After 25 pages or so, I'm not sure about it. Has anyone here read it? Does it suck? 

 

Can anyone recommend a book or series with a lot of political intrigue in a fantasy setting that has an atypical plot progression? As in no "heroes journey" to find the magical sword and defeat the dark lord kind of crap. 

 

Holy ****, I was just about to recommend the Kingkiller books. But, you've apparently already read them, so nevermind.

 

Mistborn is... fine. By which I mean a "really really good, crazy steampunk-wuxia-superhero mashup". Some interesting twists and turns. Great worldbuilding regarding magic (it's supremely logical and internally consistent). Definitely not what you were asking for, though - on the other hand, Sanderson's Warbreaker features some political intrigue and has a somewhat interesting backdrop, even if it's fairly light on "atypical plot progression" (no hero's journey to defeat a dark lord, but the story is fairly straightforward and predictable regardless).

 

I've heard great things about Stephen Brust's Vlad Taltos books and Scott Lynch's Gentleman Bastard series (the former being basically fantasy noir, kinda like the Witcher, while the second is about a bunch of scoundrels doing scoundrel-y things). Haven't read either.

 

I remember reading Robin Hobb's Farseer trilogy not long after Game of Thrones and thinking the two were somewhat similar. Of course, Farseer slightly predates GoT, which has basically given birth to an entire subgenre of its own since then, so I'm not sure how similar I'd think them now.

 

If what you're mainly looking for is a series with lots of political intrigue and atypical plot progression - so essentially: a Game of Thrones-clone -, you could give Mark Lawrence's Broken Empire trilogy a chance. I only gave the first book the most cursory attention and threw it away, labeling it as an edgy GoT-wannabe, but that sounds like a feature, not a bug here.

 

If you're willing to tolerate fantasy that very deliberately goes against the aesthetics and assumptions of Tolkien, The Scar by China Miéville fits your description to a T - if the "Arcanum meets Lovecraft" aesthetics doesn't turn you off, and your definition of "political intrigue" includes power struggles on an anarchistic floating pirate state. Few authors manage to fuse the dark and gritty so well with a genuine sense of wonder and infinite possibilities, but be warned: while the plot is far more complex than it seems at first glance, it kind of drags its feet for the first half, and the main character is pretty unlikeable. Which is not much of a problem if you can fall in love with the worldbuilding (easily comparable to Planescape), but I don't think you're the kind of person who gets the same sense of childlike joy from exploring the weird and unusual as I do.

 

Calling it a fantasy series is even more of a stretch, but since you professed your love for Free Stuff, I'm going to go out on a limb and also nominate Twig. It's basically biopunk alt-history featuring a gang of kids gifted with greatly enhanced cognitive functions and a few other low-key superpowers through the wonders of child experimentation. The POV character is the social manipulator of the group, so intrigue abounds (imagine Tyrion Lannister in a 10 year old's body), and as usual for the author, things start out pretty terribly for our heroes and steadily get worse over time, so there isn't even a whiff of any hero's journey silliness - moreover, if the setting can be said to have a dark lord*, the protagonists are staunchly in service of it. The prose is at times uneven, but the plotting, the characters and the worldbuilding are top-notch.

Content note: if there's anything horrifying you can imagine to happen with children thrust in the middle of a civil war waged with crazy biological (and occasionally chemical) weaponry, it's probably going to happen sooner or later. If small children getting splashed with acid/digestive enzymes, subjected to pain so overwhelming they tear their vocal chords screaming, getting mutilated in various ways (eye trauma being one of them) is a dealbreaker for you, I recommend avoiding the series.

 

*The Crown States are the worst; although their evil is a very banal, dare I say, industrialized kind of evil.

[Guard Dog]

 

 

If you're willing to tolerate fantasy that very deliberately goes against the aesthetics and assumptions of Tolkien, The Scar by China Miéville fits your description to a T - if the "Arcanum meets Lovecraft" aesthetics doesn't turn you off, and your definition of "political intrigue" includes power struggles on an anarchistic floating pirate state. Few authors manage to fuse the dark and gritty so well with a genuine sense of wonder and infinite possibilities, but be warned: while the plot is far more complex than it seems at first glance, it kind of drags its feet for the first half, and the main character is pretty unlikeable. Which is not much of a problem if you can fall in love with the worldbuilding (easily comparable to Planescape), but I don't think you're the kind of person who gets the same sense of childlike joy from exploring the weird and unusual as I do.

 

Calling it a fantasy series is even more of a stretch, but since you professed your love for Free Stuff, I'm going to go out on a limb and also nominate Twig. It's basically biopunk alt-history featuring a gang of kids gifted with greatly enhanced cognitive functions and a few other low-key superpowers through the wonders of child experimentation. The POV character is the social manipulator of the group, so intrigue abounds (imagine Tyrion Lannister in a 10 year old's body), and as usual for the author, things start out pretty terribly for our heroes and steadily get worse over time, so there isn't even a whiff of any hero's journey silliness - moreover, if the setting can be said to have a dark lord*, the protagonists are staunchly in service of it. The prose is at times uneven, but the plotting, the characters and the worldbuilding are top-notch.

Content note: if there's anything horrifying you can imagine to happen with children thrust in the middle of a civil war waged with crazy biological (and occasionally chemical) weaponry, it's probably going to happen sooner or later. If small children getting splashed with acid/digestive enzymes, subjected to pain so overwhelming they tear their vocal chords screaming, getting mutilated in various ways (eye trauma being one of them) is a dealbreaker for you, I recommend avoiding the series.

 

*The Crown States are the worst; although their evil is a very banal, dare I say, industrialized kind of evil.

 

 I can't believe you mentioned that one! I actually have that here in paperback. It was in a box in the closet I'd forgotten about (I have a LOT of books here). I've never read it. I'll start on that one tonight.

[Gromnir]

I don't know whether it really counts as fantasy or science fiction (or maybe science fantasy, as Wikipedia describes it, but that doesn't really seem to fit) but you might be interested in Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun tetralogy. It isn't light reading by any stretch of the imagination, but it is a good series. I wouldn't say it's exactly what you're asking for, but it also really isn't typical hero's journey.

hmmm.  we would say that gene wolfe's new sun and short sun is very much hero journey w/o too much political intrigue.  that being said, is not typical hero journey 'cause they is actual done well.  the short sun books, while not getting much attention as new sun, is our personal high water mark for wolfe as a writer o' novel length fiction.  still, is very much hero journey stuff-- so too is knight and wizard.  unfortunate, once again, wolfe in his wizard knight books is far more concerned with allegory, extended metaphor and personal character development than he is 'bout political infighting.  am not disagreeing that wolfe is fantastic, but he is much a classical adherent o' the hero journey formula.  

 

david gemmell (particular the drenai series) is another fine writer o' fantasy, but hero journey is core.  relative simple themes and well-developed characters.  before game o' thrones became popular, gemmell were embracing a more grim notion o' fantasy, while seeming to take delight in killing off his protagonists. still, is much embracing hero journey... but so too is gd's tolkien books and kingkiller, so am actual not certain what he likes.

 

if gd simple wants our notion o' good fantasy novels with an explanation 'bout why we like, we would provide a much longer list.  nevertheless, if we gotta combine political intrigue, in a fantasy setting, w/o embracing hero journey and its trappings, then list gets much shorter.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 4, 2016 by Gromnir

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

If you're willing to tolerate fantasy that very deliberately goes against the aesthetics and assumptions of Tolkien, The Scar by China Miéville fits your description to a T - if the "Arcanum meets Lovecraft" aesthetics doesn't turn you off, and your definition of "political intrigue" includes power struggles on an anarchistic floating pirate state. Few authors manage to fuse the dark and gritty so well with a genuine sense of wonder and infinite possibilities, but be warned: while the plot is far more complex than it seems at first glance, it kind of drags its feet for the first half, and the main character is pretty unlikeable. Which is not much of a problem if you can fall in love with the worldbuilding (easily comparable to Planescape), but I don't think you're the kind of person who gets the same sense of childlike joy from exploring the weird and unusual as I do.

 

Calling it a fantasy series is even more of a stretch, but since you professed your love for Free Stuff, I'm going to go out on a limb and also nominate Twig. It's basically biopunk alt-history featuring a gang of kids gifted with greatly enhanced cognitive functions and a few other low-key superpowers through the wonders of child experimentation. The POV character is the social manipulator of the group, so intrigue abounds (imagine Tyrion Lannister in a 10 year old's body), and as usual for the author, things start out pretty terribly for our heroes and steadily get worse over time, so there isn't even a whiff of any hero's journey silliness - moreover, if the setting can be said to have a dark lord*, the protagonists are staunchly in service of it. The prose is at times uneven, but the plotting, the characters and the worldbuilding are top-notch.

Content note: if there's anything horrifying you can imagine to happen with children thrust in the middle of a civil war waged with crazy biological (and occasionally chemical) weaponry, it's probably going to happen sooner or later. If small children getting splashed with acid/digestive enzymes, subjected to pain so overwhelming they tear their vocal chords screaming, getting mutilated in various ways (eye trauma being one of them) is a dealbreaker for you, I recommend avoiding the series.

 

*The Crown States are the worst; although their evil is a very banal, dare I say, industrialized kind of evil.

 

 I can't believe you mentioned that one! I actually have that here in paperback. It was in a box in the closet I'd forgotten about (I have a LOT of books here). I've never read it. I'll start on that one tonight.

 

 

Given your political leanings, I feel compelled to mention in the interest of full disclosure that the writer self-identifies as a communist, and you can sorta-kinda see this seeping into the ending. I don't personally think it's more than a passing annoyance, and people I know who read the book without knowing about this beforehand said they didn't notice it, so this might be confirmation bias speaking, but I thought this may be something that could significantly reduce your enjoyment of it, so... I'm mentioning it before you get too far.

Edited May 4, 2016 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Gromnir]

While not exactly fantasy per se, but I've always been partial to Ivanhoe. It certainly set the standard for some fantasy tropes.

 

Mystery Knights

Swashbucklers

Roguish heroes

Redeemable villain

Strong female

Witty fools

Templars

Hospitallers

Robber Barons

Political intrigue

walter scott gots some fantastic stuff.  rob roy and waverley is also enjoyable.

 

if we are going beyond scifi and fantasy, then we would add dumas' works to the list.  got the political infighting, that is for darn sure. as hard as it is to believe, dumas were actual more interesting than his novels, but one must needs keep in mind that authors such as dumas were paid by the word for their manuscripts.  as such, there were a tendency to indulge in a considerable amount of dialogue padding for those involved in writing popular fiction. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

 

 

Given your political leanings, I feel compelled to mention in the interest of full disclosure that the writer self-identifies as a communist, and you can sorta-kinda see this seeping into the ending. I don't personally think it's more than a passing annoyance, and people I know who read the book without knowing about this beforehand said they didn't notice it, so this might be confirmation bias speaking, but I thought this may be something that could significantly reduce your enjoyment of it, so... I'm mentioning it before you get too far.

 

Jack London identified himself has a communist and he is one of my favorite writers. There is something you need to understand. A persons political leanings are what they are. They are shaped by education and life experience. They should never be something you take into consideration outside 1) a political discussion/debate or 2) a voting booth. They will color your outlook on life but it should only be by the smallest amount. They should never determine who your friends are, or what entertainment you enjoy, or who you respect. Disliking someone because their politics are not the same as yours (not you personally just in general) is as asinine as disliking them because they cheer for a different sports team than you do.

 

Unless they are New York Yankees fans... that is a different story. 

[Guard Dog]

 

 

if gd simple wants our notion o' good fantasy novels with an explanation 'bout why we like, we would provide a much longer list.  nevertheless, if we gotta combine political intrigue, in a fantasy setting, w/o embracing hero journey and its trappings, then list gets much shorter.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

What can I tell you... I'm picky 

[Gromnir]

 

 

 

if gd simple wants our notion o' good fantasy novels with an explanation 'bout why we like, we would provide a much longer list.  nevertheless, if we gotta combine political intrigue, in a fantasy setting, w/o embracing hero journey and its trappings, then list gets much shorter.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

What can I tell you... I'm picky 

 

picky is good.  Gromnir has been called a lit snob more than once.  been called a snob... period.  been called far, far worse.

 

our snobbery, while unapologetic and obvious, confuses folks.  after all, while we frequent proclaim the sorry state o' the fantasy/scifi genre(s), when asked to reveal examples o' the best such works, we tend to follow mr. frost's advice.  yup, for the dyed-in-wool snob, our list o' fantasy greats is gonna include crowley's little, big and updike's the witches of eastwick.  our condemnation o' the prose o' tolkien would make even harold bloom wince, though we will give tolkien's lotr a respectful nod as an exemplar o' deep and complete myth crafting.  am thinking octavia butler's kindred is coarse, but readable in its own way.  typical snob, eh?

 

two roads diverged in a yellow wood, 

and sorry I could not travel both 

and be one traveler, long I stood 

and looked down one as far as I could 

to where it bent in the undergrowth;

 

'course we ain't done with our list after crowley and updike, gardner and carroll.  nope, 'mongst our favorites is gaiman's stardust and the graveyard book. while his most mature novel is american gods, we do believe it is his least impressive book as the numerous plot strands confounded his storytelling efforts the deeper he got into his work.  most impressive is gaiman writing when he writes for kids or when he writes w/o pretension-- include his graphic novels and neverwhere 'mongst the numerous stellar gaiman offerings.  the aforementioned graveyard book is our favorite fantasy work written in the last decade.  second best ain't even close.  sure, is a coming o' age story, but after reading you ain't never gonna forget the dread manjacks and you will no doubt feel at least a moment's ridiculous regret that you never grew up 'mongst silent stones o' granite and marble.

 

the phantom tollbooth and a swiftly tilting planet is gonna show up near the top o' a list by Gromnir o' the best fantasy ever written.  is for children, but is not written to children.  read those books as adults and you realize just how mature is the themes and how well-crafted is the prose. 

 

is good to be picky, eh?  is good not to worry 'bout convention. 

 

as an aside, we heard that bbc were doing a tv show based 'pon jonathan strange & mr. norrell. sure, one needs endure the typical englishman's (woman in this case)  preoccupation with early 19th century london and its environs.  am not sure what it is 'bout ubiquitous dirt and endemic human misery that so charges the english imagination, but regardless, the children o' the britons see such a setting as inherent magical. *shrug*  am not gonna claim that strange and norrell's portrayal o' magic is unique, but it is refreshing. is a worthy read, and assuming that the show develops a loyal following, you can be one o' the handful o' Americans who can lord it over your colleagues at the watercooler while they discuss the show while you is able to remark on the differences 'tween the book and the bbc offering. sneer as the literary manhood o' bob in hr shrivels in the presence o' your abject superiority. muwahaha!  

 

we kid.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 5, 2016 by Gromnir

[ManifestedISO]

Would love lording the least bit of something over anyone, but the watercooler colleagues I collude with don't speak my language, much less know of Frost, Tolkien, or Gaiman.

 

So I come here, where everything's fine. Thanks for some recommendations.    

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

Given your political leanings, I feel compelled to mention in the interest of full disclosure that the writer self-identifies as a communist, and you can sorta-kinda see this seeping into the ending. I don't personally think it's more than a passing annoyance, and people I know who read the book without knowing about this beforehand said they didn't notice it, so this might be confirmation bias speaking, but I thought this may be something that could significantly reduce your enjoyment of it, so... I'm mentioning it before you get too far.

 

Jack London identified himself has a communist and he is one of my favorite writers. There is something you need to understand. A persons political leanings are what they are. They are shaped by education and life experience. They should never be something you take into consideration outside 1) a political discussion/debate or 2) a voting booth. They will color your outlook on life but it should only be by the smallest amount. They should never determine who your friends are, or what entertainment you enjoy, or who you respect. Disliking someone because their politics are not the same as yours (not you personally just in general) is as asinine as disliking them because they cheer for a different sports team than you do.

 

 

Well, given how flailing about a creator's "politics" influencing their work has seemed to become the favorite pastime of the forum lately, I thought I should nevertheless mention it.

[Guard Dog]

I'm sure it does bother some folks but it shouldn't. From what I've read of his blogs I suspect GRRM and I would never come to any kind of agreement on politics. But I still enjoy his work and I'd probably enjoy talking football with the man over scotch & cigars.. I know a lot of folks get upset when they read a story that is infused with a political or religious viewpoint contrary to their own. C.S. Lewis & Joe Halderman come to mind as writers who have been harshly criticized for that kind of thing. But a good story is a good story no matter what tone or message the witiers is trying to slip in. And if that tone or message is something you disagree with it's still ok to suspend that for a moment and enjoy a story for it's own merits.

 

One of my favorite characters is all of literature is Wolf Larson, the antagonist in Jack London's book The Sea Wolf. That charachter is London attacking the exact kind of man I consider myself to be, the anti-communitarian. Larsen is the ultimate "survival of the fittest" libertarian arch-type. Ayn Rand would have loved him. And that is what made him a villan in London's eyes. That does not put me off at all or diminish in the least my enjoyment of the story or the charachter.

 

Besides, the best artists are usually found on the left side of the political spectrum. Those with a mind that favors the conservative or libertarian philosophy tend to pursue careers in hard or practically applied sciences rather than creative arts or social sciences. At least that has been my experience.

 

Engineers make poor fiction writers. Speaking from experience on that one.   

[Hurlshort]

I'm going to Wyoming, Montana, and South Dakota this summer, so I'm looking for some good books about the history of the area.  I've watched Deadwood, of course, and we are staying a couple nights in that town.  We are also staying in Custer, so I might be interested in a good book on him.

[Leferd]

A River Runs Through It was the single worst assigned book I read in high school. I had a student teacher from Montana for English my junior year and she thought it was a good representation of the Montana experience. Pretty sure it backfired on her.

 

Then again, I really enjoyed Shane --8th grade assignment, about a mysterious stranger meticulously dressed in black helping homesteaders in 1880's Wyoming. Written as a memoir from the point of view of a child, since grown up. Better than the excellent Alan Ladd -Jack Palance film.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Leferd

[the_dog_days]

Slightly off topic: The worst book I've ever been assigned to read was Catcher in the Rye. The fact that the book was written by a kid right out of high school who had no clue what he wanted to do with his life and was about a kid out of high school who had no clue what he wanted to do with his life seems to be lost on English professors.