(REQ)Enchanting/Crafting Add-on

[qwert_44643]

   I just wanted to say id like to request an enchanting/crafting add on for more options....

   Id personally like to see all the unqiue enchantments made available to craft but at a weaker state than the original unquie's enchantment(thus the unquis still retain their value).

   Oh well my hopes.

qwert

[Skie Nightfall]

It's rare that I like crafting systems like this in rpgs, and was worried about PoE having one, but it actually turned out quite good the way it is.

 

You don't get to create super items, you can create decent ones or improve your own to a limit. It keeps the need and fun at actually finding/buying items, while still being useful and not cumbersome. I also don't feel the need to save materials for later.

[Hassat Hunter]

Enchantment is the single #1 worst thing in PoE.

 

What fun is finding loot if it's just a sum of freaking enchantments.

 

It already totally sucked out any kind of "accomplisment" for finding loot already, I hardly want to see it become even more loot-breaking and thereby gameplay-fun-decreasing as it already is.

 

Maybe PoE could have been a classic, but this Enchanting single-handedly dredged it down to being just a good game.

[qwert_44643]

wow...oh well quess i can have my inner desires.

[qwert_44643]

  You know i did some thinking and i dont like "powerfull" items just given to my character but enjoy and appreciate the option espically at higher levels to tailor some wonderous item for my character....but surely i aint the only one that likes enchanting items.

[pi2repsion]

And I would like to request less crafting/enchanting.

 

I will say this for it; It is lightweight and has a well designed interface, something that I greatly approve of. With regards to the balance between what players who like crafting and what players who abhore crafting desire, the designers have probably struck a good balance.

 

Some people prefer crafting their own equipment and collecting a bunch of ingredients that allow them to hit the "make my day" button, some people prefer finding storied treasure supposedly made by craftsmen labouring many days over their work, that isn't diminished in in-game importance by being beaten in quality by a bum collecting ten dead rats and a ripe pineapple and wriggling his fingers suggestively, or at any rate magically, over them, creating the newest artefact of doom with less effort than it takes to say "catastrophic loss of immersion".

 

From my perspective, it isn't as bad in POE as it is many other modern CRPGs, but it is bad enough due to not only the compulsive hoarding of dozens of ingredients (as in all crafting systems, but at least they are put into a separate inventory...) and due to the strict limitations the enchant-cost design puts on item design and on what players will consider useful items.

 

Let me give you an example that doesn't contain spoilers (much). There are items in the game that you find close to, at, or above the 12 point enchant limit due to being interestingly designed rather than "one generic effect, one interesting effect, leave the rest to the player to fill out". Are you, as a player, ever going to be using these interesting items or even be tempted to? Unless the reason is that 6 of those points were spent on Superb, the answer is, probably not. Because some weapon or armour that uses most of its enchantment points on things that are occasionally useful, but is unable to be enchanted to exceptional or superb status, is strictly inferior to any item that can.

 

For the weapon/armour/shield slots, there are only a few of the many unique items in the game that are generally used by players, because they have some valuable enchant effect that cannot be manually replicated, while at the same time having enough free points to be promoted with the general enchants, as the player progresses, to exceptional and/or superb status.

 

Combine that with how armour recovery speed is itemized, and it gets even worse - though that's not so much a fault of the enchantment system, as a case of it exaggerating the defects of the armour system. From a game mechanics perspective, there is little reason to wear any armour that is not either a) plate armour with 50% recovery penalty, or b) exceptionally light armour with close to 0% recovery penalty, unless that armour is awesome in some way.  But the system makes it really, really, hard to make any armour but that with the highest DR or lowest recovery penalty awesome, since quality, proofing, and stat boosting is available to the player to enchant at will at negligible cost. Got a frontline of three melee? You'll have three exceptional plate armours once you hit level 8 via enchanting, make no doubt, with useful proofing and stat boosting. Probably by promoting your existing fine plate armour, you enchanted at level 4.

 

With the White March addon, it is possible to make awesome robes, because they can be White Forge enchanted to cancel out the recovery penalty, but everything with greater recovery penalty than robes and less armour than plate armour remains trapped with the why would anybody wear something like this question, because anybody can enchant a stock plate armour or clothing/Berathian Priest Robe to provide as much DR as the item type allows, proofing of choice, and a +1 or +2 to the stat highest desired, depending on whether the character in question needs DR more than recovery speed or vice versa.

 

If you couldn't improve armour at will, then some medium/heavy armour of Hide to Brigandine variety could, conceivably, be interesting if e.g. you found one that was exceptional while you only had access to fine heavy armour, or one that was superb would be be relevant when you were otherwise limited to exceptional plate armor or only had very limited access to superb plate armour, and they otherwise had interesting stats.

 

But you can improve armour with enchants, so there's little reason save style for ever wearing anything heavier than robes and lighter than plate armor, and we aren't all stylish. :D

 

It is enough to make one cry for all the man-hours that went into designing unique graphics for all those sets of armour that see little use outside catwalk performances in Defiance Bay.

Edited September 10, 2015 by pi2repsion

[qwert_44643]

And I would like to request less crafting/enchanting.

 

I will say this for it; It is lightweight and has a well designed interface, something that I greatly approve of. With regards to the balance between what players who like crafting and what players who abhore crafting desire, the designers have probably struck a good balance.

 

Some people prefer crafting their own equipment and collecting a bunch of ingredients that allow them to hit the "make my day" button, some people prefer finding storied treasure supposedly made by craftsmen labouring many days over their world, that isn't diminished in in-game importance by being beaten in quality by a bum collecting ten dead rats and a ripe pineapple and wriggling his fingers suggestively, or at any rate magically, over them, creating the newest artefact of doom with less effort than it takes to say "catastrophic loss of immersion".

 

From my perspective, it isn't as bad in POE as it is many other modern CRPGs, but it is bad enough due to not only the compulsive hoarding of dozens or ingredients (as in all crafting systems, but at least they are put into a separate inventory...) and due to the strict limitations the enchant-cost design puts on item design and on what players will consider useful items.

 

Let me give you an example that doesn't contain spoilers (much). There are items in the game that you find close to, at, or above the 12 point enchant limit due to being interestingly designed rather than "one generic effect, one interesting effect, leave the rest to the player to fill out". Are you, as a player, ever going to be using these interesting items or even be tempted to? Unless the reason is that 6 of those points were spent on Superb, the answer is, probably not. Because some weapon or armour that uses most of its enchantment points on things that are occasionally useful, but is unable to be enchanted to exceptional or superb status, is strictly inferior to any item that can.

 

For the weapon/armour/shield slots, there are only a few of the many unique items in the game that are generally used by players, because they have some valuable enchant effect that cannot be manually replicated, while at the same time having enough free points to be promoted with the general enchants, as the player progresses, to exceptional and/or superb status.

 

Combine that with how armour recovery speed is itemized, and it gets even worse - though that's not so much a fault of the enchantment system, as a case of it exaggerating the defects of the armour system. From a game mechanics perspective, there is little reason to wear any armour that is not either a) plate armour with 50% recovery penalty, or b) exceptionally light armour with close to 0% recovery penalty, unless that armour is awesome in some way.  But the system makes it really, really, hard to make any armour but that with the highest DR or lowest recovery penalty awesome, since quality, proofing, and stat boosting is available to the player to enchant at will at negligible cost. Got a frontline of three melee? You'll have three exceptional plate armours once you hit level 8 via enchanting, make no doubt, with useful proofing and stat boosting. Probably by promoting your existing fine plate armour, you enchanted at level 4.

 

With the White March addon, it is possible to make awesome robes, because they can be White Forge enchanted to cancel out the recovery penalty, but everything with greater recovery penalty than robes and less armour than plate armour remains trapped with the why would anybody wear something like this question, because anybody can enchant a stock plate armour or clothing/Berathian Priest Robe to provide as much DR as the item type allows, proofing of choice, and a +1 or +2 to the stat highest desired, depending on whether the character in question needs DR more than recovery speed or vice versa.

 

If you couldn't improve armour at will, then some medium/heavy armour of Hide to Brigandine variety could, conceivably, be interesting if e.g. you found one that was exceptional while you only had access to fine heavy armour, or one that was superb would be be relevant when you were otherwise limited to exceptional plate armor or only had very limited access to superb plate armour, and they otherwise had interesting stats.

 

But you can improve armour with enchants, so there's little reason save style for ever wearing anything heavier than robes and lighter than plate armor, and we aren't all stylish. :D

 

It is enough to make one cry for all the man-hours that went into designing unique graphics for all those sets of armour that see little use outside catwalk performances in Defiance Bay.

LOL.....very well presented...you have earned my respect.

[Stoner]

I totally don't see any point in crafting/enchaniting in this game, maybe because it's done bad, I'm not sure, but here's the situation:

The only time where you might need to enchant your gear is endgame, because best attributes comes for VERY rare materials and there's no farming locations, no respawning mobs (which is VERY good in truth), and you have to be 100% sure that item you about to enchant is really best you can find or that would be just wasted materials. Making minor enchantments requiring low tier common mats is useless because it doesn't give you any signinficant boost and still wasted stuff that could be used later, on better equipment. I wished that was done better, or removed at all...

 

Still, it's very minor case not even worth mentioning, doesn't spoil the game a bit.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Stoner

[TMZuk]

I would like to chime in and say that crafting was the -worst- thing that was added to the game.

 

Kill it with fire! It is ruining all fun in looting and visiting shops. Get rid of it, as soon as possible.

 

The worst thing about stretchgoals in kickstarter campaigns, is when something is added that a backer hates with a vengeance. When crafting was added as a stretchgoal, after I had become a backer, I was going "No, no, noooo, not THAT!". And just as I feared, it is spoiling -so- much of the game for me.

Edited September 10, 2015 by TMZuk

[wanderon]

I don't use the enchant option too much - I figure I'm eventually going to find some cool item for my teams needs so why waste the cash early on - in fact by the time I get to about level 5 or so the problem is I have too many cool items and not enough characters to use them all - I may not have the "perfect" item for every character yet but then the game is not even half over at that point.

 

That said I certainly would not want to see the enchant option go away not only because I might choose to use it to make a special item that's not going to appear and secondly because there are others out there that like it. I think they did a good job implementing it - I feel free to either take it or leave it and I think that's exactly how it should be.

[daver]

I must be in the minority then, as I love crafting in all types of RPGs. I've spent many hours crafting in Skyrim/Fallout 3 & New Vegas and DA:Inquisition. But I enjoy it, I like exploring the creation part. But I respect those players that don't want to be bothered with it. The POE system is light enough, that you can completely ignore it if it's not your thing. You don't need it to complete the game or to become uber-powerful. It won't consume hours of your game anyway as there are only limited things to create anyway. I generally save my weapon/armor enchantments for unique items that have some enchantment space left. I agree that enchanting mundane items is a waste of materials, as the rarer materials are indeed rare. I also craft food & some potions. Scroll crafting I found to be a waste of gold for a one-shot item.

[Hassat Hunter]

As I already briefly stated on, sadly, no I cannot be ignored if you don't want to use it.

 

Imagine playing Baldur's Gate II, getting that +5 Greatsword from Firkraag. Does that feel awesome. Yes it does.

Now imagine playing Pillars of Eternity, where your "awesome loot" basically comes down to what it's pre-enchanted with. Found that cool new item? Just a sum of parts.

 

Sorry, but I don't see even ignoring the crafting how making loot instead of unique, varied and wanted to just a "sum of it's parts" whoop-die-doo it doesn't really matter anymore what you recover is an improvement. It definitely doesn't count as improvement to me.

 

Quite au-contraire. Yay for unique loot, down with "just pre-enchanted 5/12 drop!" bs.

[LaSpeakeasi]

As I already briefly stated on, sadly, no I cannot be ignored if you don't want to use it.

 

Imagine playing Baldur's Gate II, getting that +5 Greatsword from Firkraag. Does that feel awesome. Yes it does.

Now imagine playing Pillars of Eternity, where your "awesome loot" basically comes down to what it's pre-enchanted with. Found that cool new item? Just a sum of parts.

 

Sorry, but I don't see even ignoring the crafting how making loot instead of unique, varied and wanted to just a "sum of it's parts" whoop-die-doo it doesn't really matter anymore what you recover is an improvement. It definitely doesn't count as improvement to me.

 

Quite au-contraire. Yay for unique loot, down with "just pre-enchanted 5/12 drop!" bs.

But times have changed. Younger RPG players require constant reward/stimulation. And older players that played BG2 simply don't have the time to play it like we used to.

 

I could spend hours on end trying to get that +3 scimitar in BG and it would be fun. When I was 12. Now if I had 2 hours to spend on a game, I better get something good. Or it feels like I've wasted my time. That rare and unique loot system still has a place in indie gaming. But PoE isn't an indie game.

 

Nobody plays games like that anymore. Well I guess one. You.

[Oralaina]

I don't see the enchanting as being a problem.  It doesn't take up a lot of time, it's easy, it doesn't take a lot of mats.  Most of the mats are available in the wild - or once you repair the curio shop, from the shopkeeper (and the Treasury Chest).  Toward the end of my first playthrough (the one that's done except for the final battle - waiting on WM 2 before I finish it), the curio shop even had a couple of "end game" items - a sky dragon eye, and being me, can't remember the other one now *shrug*.

 

I love finding "fancy loot" - and the most I do with the enchant system is boost stuff to exceptional or superb if there's room and I have the mats.

 

And to the OP, when it comes to the kind of mod you're looking for, you'd have to see if you could hook up with this game's modding community - you can find some mods on nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity.  You could maybe talk to the IE Mod people in their threads here, too.  They'd be the most likely ones to chat with about it probably.

[Teioh_White]

I'm actually pretty fine with the crafting in this game. It's just enough to add a little flavor to an item (what color do you want it to glow?), without completely rendering any found loot pointless, as NNW 2 and DA: I did.. On of the gameplay features of IE games is the exploration, and that edge is seriously dulled when crafting has consumed whatever goodies one finds in the woods.

 

With different gameplay, it's fine, but PoE is trying very hard to be a very IE game.

[sapientNode]

Currently the enchanting/crafting system should be revamped to a great degree.

 

As far as the comments about crafting taking away from the game.  Argggggggggg!!!

It never makes any sense to me when people complain about something when all they have to do is not use it.  I know more is not always better but if designed well both systems of finding treasure and crafting awesomeness can work very well together.  I myself would still use something unique even if it perhaps it was less in some areas and more in others.

Potentially because my character likes a sword rather than a blunt weapon.

 

As it is it appears crafting was extremely gutted and it was then not balanced after being gutted.  With all the materials we get it would appear we are to experiment.  However with the random and absurdly high amount of coin I guess we pay the crafting fairies I end up with close to 100 of some materials with nothing to do with them but sell them off.  A huge stash box of junk basically.

 

 

I would absolutely love to see a mod for crafting where all the crafting options were accessible and the design impediment was not gold.  I mean seriously what am I doing smelting the gold into the item?  I cant even realistically (until late game) craft/enchant many items even though I am sitting on an absurd amount of components because it costs me 1200cp just to put fine on a staff.  My monies are going into the keep mainly now and some other equipment along the way.

 

I can agree that as it is the crafting/enchant system makes no sense.  Its far too expensive to experiment or to add minor tweaks which would be helpful early on and the amount of Unique items that drop all over the place or show up in shops pretty much discourages spending much thought or time crafting/enchanting.

 

There is just too much of too much of too much with out any real refinement.

 

It will not take anything away if the crafting system was more robust with a more intricate design.

You could have distilling process for components and a need for a proper workspace.  In addition the enchants could be bonuses added to the already Unique gear.  As in amplifying certain aspects of the already set bonuses.  Rather than the generic add fine superb exceptional and hope you pick the right proof bane or elemental damage modifier.  I mean we can not even overwrite elemental damage or bane effects or attribute bonuses. 

 

As it is its really only a half system if it is even that.  My understanding is that is because early stage enchants allowed for all properties to be added and that made certain choices super OP.  So instead of sitting down and working out a remedy it would appear they added some arbitrary blocks removed a ton of the properties we could add but left in the obscene amount of component drops.

 

Again for those who say omg you cant put in more crafting it will destroy the game or it already does.... meh

There are always additional options for resolution that can be implemented that doesn't involve one option being destroyed or not chosen.

 

I like crafting and the more deep the crafting system for me the better.  D:OS had a fairly robust crafting system with making lockpicks and other such items as well as adding some bonuses to the gear itself.  It was also limited in the properties you could add however.  It would be great to have crafting stations and workspaces in the keep where we could tinker away and create amazing things or enhance already amazing things.  I mean what exactly am I doing along with paying the gold enchant fairy when I slap a component on a weapon?  Am I just randomly standing in a dungeon and throwing gold in the air and then the weapon gleams so then I throw a gem a plant and beast material at it and poof its enchanted.

 

Ultimately drops need to be tweaked especially for PoTD and Hard runs so the rarity of components stays consistent.  Then we need workspaces where we can take time and focus on our crafting and enchanting.  Then we need different variations and properties to be included in what we can enchant.  The magick pay the gold fairy needs to be replaced with another method of creating a proper payment/reward system.

 

I think the best we can hope for is a Mod for this stuff but it appears much more difficult to mod this game because we dont even have a few simple overrides for enchant properties.

We need access to the tables which hold the formula for gold pricing.

We need access to the variables for drop rates.

We need access to tables for what properties are allowed in the enchanting process.

 

I am hoping for at the very least a more refined craft/enchant system.  I really like crafting in games myself.

[tinysalamander]

I'd prefer more enchantment options, personally. Not necessarily available from the start. All those “+1-2 to attrubute,” “different elemental damage” and “bonus vs X” aren't different enough. Although I still find that better than nothing.

[LaSpeakeasi]

Whether or not the enchantment system as it is now is robust enough is beside the point of this request. No matter how many options we have, this request is about having the freedom to not be locked into the option you previously applied.

 

And that is a completely different topic than "whether crafting should be in the game" or "we should have more/less/as many options".

 

It seems people who don't want overidable enchantments also don't want enchanting to be a thing at all anyway. And seeing how we aren't going to get rid of enchantment at least for WM2. I say we go ahead and at least give some people what we want.

[Oralaina]

Whether or not the enchantment system as it is now is robust enough is beside the point of this request. No matter how many options we have, this request is about having the freedom to not be locked into the option you previously applied.

 

And that is a completely different topic than "whether crafting should be in the game" or "we should have more/less/as many options".

 

It seems people who don't want overidable enchantments also don't want enchanting to be a thing at all anyway. And seeing how we aren't going to get rid of enchantment at least for WM2. I say we go ahead and at least give some people what we want.

 

Well.... actually, the OP didn't at all address anything but wanting a mod for enchanting,   Didn't mention overwriting at all....  Now, I'd LOVE to have an overwrite similar to how you can "add" superb/exceptional to a fine enchant and not have to use more than the difference between fine and whichever of the others you're applying.  But that's not what this thread was about to begin with.

[sapientNode]

Whether or not the enchantment system as it is now is robust enough is beside the point of this request. No matter how many options we have, this request is about having the freedom to not be locked into the option you previously applied.

 

And that is a completely different topic than "whether crafting should be in the game" or "we should have more/less/as many options".

 

It seems people who don't want overidable enchantments also don't want enchanting to be a thing at all anyway. And seeing how we aren't going to get rid of enchantment at least for WM2. I say we go ahead and at least give some people what we want.

 

I agree since we are likely not going to see the total removal of the craft/enchant system we should at least have some tweaks to it so it was more functional with more options.

And absolutely with the ability to overwrite an enchantment.  It is obviously a doable feature since it works with the fine/superb/exceptional line.  And an accurate2 will overwrite a damage2.

 

Does anyone know what file these things are in or is it all hard coded?

Search as I might I can not find any type of variable/config files.

We could be fixing or modding the enchanting system right now if it is possible??

Edited September 27, 2015 by sapientNode