Journalism and Bias in the Gaming Industry

[Oerwinde]

 

Liana K's husband has some good tidbits on various topics.

[Sakai]

He says "We were not doing journalism" and then specifies what that is.

Yeah, and he specifically said that it's not to push a political agenda. 

[Zoraptor]

His sentence construction may be the problem, but he's definitely saying that journalism is either one of serving the public good or pushing a political agenda the way it is written.

[Ineth]

Yeah, and he specifically said that it's not to push a political agenda.

 

No, he's saying that about his old employer.

 

The one he's complaining about for being "not journalism, really". The one he describes with derogatory language like "aping", and clearly looks down on.

[GhoulishVisage]

Yeah, and he specifically said that it's not to push a political agenda. 

 

I'm reading it as "We weren't serving the public good or pushing a political agenda, so we weren't doing journalism."

 

A bit of wonky wordsmithing on his part if that wasn't his intention.

[Sakai]

I'm reading it as "We weren't serving the public good or pushing a political agenda, so we weren't doing journalism."

 

A bit of wonky wordsmithing on his part if that wasn't his intention.

Oh, i read it wrong, my apologies. Though i do still feel it's a bit of a stretch to say that he "defines" journalism as pushing a political agenda. There's more than enough that's already there, no need to ascribe him something that he didn't necessarily say. 

[Malcador]

I don't think I've ever been on a forums where there is pretty extreme profanity censorship...in addition to that censorship policy being stringently pursued and upheld...and yet there seems to be a virtual free for all on trolling (and troll-like behavior)...and even outright flaming is allowed to some extent. What an odd forums I am on.

Makes sense to me, the Geneva Conventions set rules on the way to kill people and everyone's cool with it

[Amentep]

So watched a few videos that were linked back that aways.

Mercedes Carrera has done better videos on the problems she has with SJW/Feminists/anti-GamerGate types. In this one she makes the same kind of flawed objection that a lot of anti-gamergate types did at the beginning of this (essentially "Who cares about ethics in journalism when women are being raped in the middle east" equivocates to "Why are you speaking to the UN about people pointing out flaws in your arguments online when marines are being fired for stopping men from raping boys in the middle east). She's clearly angry and probably not the best time to post an argumentative video.

Lowder With Crowder - I know the guy describes himself as an entertainer. I think its a shame that he goes for fat jokes rather than press an interesting point. He shows how the organizers were using trigger warnings (for creating a "safe space") in their literature but on the convention floor have a picture - out in the open - of menstruating, boosomed Jesus. When asked the organizers they start to talk about trying to challenge norms and had this been anyone other than an entertainment guy there might have been an interesting discussion about the seeming disconnect between challenging norms (thus intending to make people uncomfortable) and safe spaces (making it so no one is ever confronted with something that makes them uncomfortable). But that issue isn't dealt with as instead he gets himself thrown out. Missed opportunity there.

The Thunderfoot videos - one was a straight out lift of Feminist Frequency applied to things designed to appeal to women. Its not that difficult to deconstruct the problems with their arguments so its less interesting than it might possibly have been. The video where he showed the hate videos that had been made by him contrasted with Sarkesian at the UN(?) was more interesting just to show the ultimate problem with a lot of this debate - that both sides seem to be willing to ignore vitriol as long as its spewed at the appropriate target rather than treating it like the barnacle on their position that it is and calling them out so that these voices are removed from the discourse. 

[Meshugger]

So watched a few videos that were linked back that aways.

 

Mercedes Carrera has done better videos on the problems she has with SJW/Feminists/anti-GamerGate types. In this one she makes the same kind of flawed objection that a lot of anti-gamergate types did at the beginning of this (essentially "Who cares about ethics in journalism when women are being raped in the middle east" equivocates to "Why are you speaking to the UN about people pointing out flaws in your arguments online when marines are being fired for stopping men from raping boys in the middle east). She's clearly angry and probably not the best time to post an argumentative video.

 

Lowder With Crowder - I know the guy describes himself as an entertainer. I think its a shame that he goes for fat jokes rather than press an interesting point. He shows how the organizers were using trigger warnings (for creating a "safe space") in their literature but on the convention floor have a picture - out in the open - of menstruating, boosomed Jesus. When asked the organizers they start to talk about trying to challenge norms and had this been anyone other than an entertainment guy there might have been an interesting discussion about the seeming disconnect between challenging norms (thus intending to make people uncomfortable) and safe spaces (making it so no one is ever confronted with something that makes them uncomfortable). But that issue isn't dealt with as instead he gets himself thrown out. Missed opportunity there.

 

The Thunderfoot videos - one was a straight out lift of Feminist Frequency applied to things designed to appeal to women. Its not that difficult to deconstruct the problems with their arguments so its less interesting than it might possibly have been. The video where he showed the hate videos that had been made by him contrasted with Sarkesian at the UN(?) was more interesting just to show the ultimate problem with a lot of this debate - that both sides seem to be willing to ignore vitriol as long as its spewed at the appropriate target rather than treating it like the barnacle on their position that it is and calling them out so that these voices are removed from the discourse. 

 

Dude, it's war between good and evil. Games, art, comic books, movies and freedom of expression should never have to justify it's existence.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Meshugger

[Amentep]

So its okay if I shoot a person because they're trying to censor art?

 

Or how about if I burn their house down?

 

Mail them death threats?

 

Exactly how far can I go and still be okay because I'm defending art?

 

Seriously, I'm very much a proponent for not censoring game content because of "feels", but I think there is a proper way to with this argument.  And allowing provocateurs to stir the **** on both sides and not calling it out because some of it happens to be against targets you don't like just ain't right, IMO.

[Blarghagh]

Or how about if I burn their house down?

With the lemons?

[Meshugger]

So its okay if I shoot a person because they're trying to censor art?

 

Or how about if I burn their house down?

 

Mail them death threats?

 

Exactly how far can I go and still be okay because I'm defending art?

 

Seriously, I'm very much a proponent for not censoring game content because of "feels", but I think there is a proper way to with this argument.  And allowing provocateurs to stir the **** on both sides and not calling it out because some of it happens to be against targets you don't like just ain't right, IMO.

 

lol what

[Keyrock]

So its okay if I shoot a person because they're trying to censor art?

 

Or how about if I burn their house down?

 

Mail them death threats?

 

Exactly how far can I go and still be okay because I'm defending art?

 

Seriously, I'm very much a proponent for not censoring game content because of "feels", but I think there is a proper way to with this argument.  And allowing provocateurs to stir the **** on both sides and not calling it out because some of it happens to be against targets you don't like just ain't right, IMO.

Wait, what?

 

Did you forget to take your meds this morning? 

Edited September 29, 2015 by Keyrock

[Amentep]

 

So its okay if I shoot a person because they're trying to censor art?

 

Or how about if I burn their house down?

 

Mail them death threats?

 

Exactly how far can I go and still be okay because I'm defending art?

 

Seriously, I'm very much a proponent for not censoring game content because of "feels", but I think there is a proper way to with this argument.  And allowing provocateurs to stir the **** on both sides and not calling it out because some of it happens to be against targets you don't like just ain't right, IMO.

Wait, what?

 

Did you forget to take your meds this morning? 

 

 

Meshugger said it was a "war between good and evil"¹ in response to my call for calm, rational discussion and a move for both sides to call out the ****-stirrers who have no interest in anything but furthering arguments for lewls.

 

So just trying to see how war-like this war between good and evil for the soul of art is.  Because it seems like so far both sides are okay with at least phoning in bomb threats to places the other side is speaking at (or to their own so they can blame the opposite side).

Edited September 29, 2015 by Amentep

[Keyrock]

Meshugger said it was a "war between good and evil"¹ in response to my call for calm, rational discussion and a move for both sides to call out the ****-stirrers who have no interest in anything but furthering arguments for lewls.

 

So just trying to see how war-like this war between good and evil for the soul of art is.  Because it seems like so far both sides are okay with at least phoning in bomb threats to places the other side is speaking at (or to their own so they can blame the opposite side).

 

I'm pretty sure Meshugger was using "war" in a pretty loose and figurative way.  No one here has suggested it's okay to shoot anyone, burn a person's house down, or issue death threats.  We are all against real harassment here and no one wants to see anyone come to any physical harm, regardless of how much we may disagree with or dislike certain people.

 

You might want to cut back on the sauce and dial the accusatory tone down a bit.  Relax.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Keyrock

[Amentep]

 

Meshugger said it was a "war between good and evil"¹ in response to my call for calm, rational discussion and a move for both sides to call out the ****-stirrers who have no interest in anything but furthering arguments for lewls.

 

So just trying to see how war-like this war between good and evil for the soul of art is.  Because it seems like so far both sides are okay with at least phoning in bomb threats to places the other side is speaking at (or to their own so they can blame the opposite side).

 

I'm pretty sure Meshugger was using "war" in a pretty loose and figurative way.  No one here has suggested it's okay to shoot anyone, burn a person's house down, or issue death threats.  We are all against real harassment here and no one wants to see anyone come to any physical harm, regardless of how much we may disagree with or dislike certain people.

 

You might want to cut back on the sauce and dial the accusatory tone down a bit.  Relax.

 

 

I wasn't suggesting anyone had suggested anything I mentioned, so I'm not sure why you suggest I did?

 

Mind you I'm not exactly sure why my request for calm and rational debate was met with a "THIS IS SPARTA...I mean WAR!" response either, and I'm even further confused that somehow anyone would think my clearly facetious response to a somewhat confusing reply was remotely serious in nature. 

 

Bottom line: I don't understand why either side wants to keep the barnacles on their boat which, metaphorically speaking, represent those who issue death threats, doxx, etc people on either or both sides.  And as we get more and more days/months/years into this long raging internet disagreement it confuses me more and more.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Amentep

[Hurlshort]

 

You might want to cut back on the sauce and dial the accusatory tone down a bit.  Relax.

 

 

Are we reading the same thread?  Vitriol is pretty much what has kept this thing alive.

[Keyrock]

Bottom line: I don't understand why either side wants to keep the barnacles on their boat which, metaphorically speaking, represent those who issue death threats, doxx, etc people on either or both sides.  And as we get more and more days/months/years into this long raging internet disagreement it confuses me more and more.

 

As with any argument between large groups, there are always going to be unstable people on both sides who take things too far, that's true of any such argument.  What's more, when you get an argument like this, particularly when it has gained a measure of fame, there will always be those people that have no real attachment to either side, they're simply there to instigate, to fan the flames, because...

 

[Malcador]

And everyone got all mad when I said a lot of these people need to get offed, the entire thing would be much better that way

[Meshugger]

 

 

So its okay if I shoot a person because they're trying to censor art?

 

Or how about if I burn their house down?

 

Mail them death threats?

 

Exactly how far can I go and still be okay because I'm defending art?

 

Seriously, I'm very much a proponent for not censoring game content because of "feels", but I think there is a proper way to with this argument.  And allowing provocateurs to stir the **** on both sides and not calling it out because some of it happens to be against targets you don't like just ain't right, IMO.

Wait, what?

 

Did you forget to take your meds this morning? 

 

 

Meshugger said it was a "war between good and evil"¹ in response to my call for calm, rational discussion and a move for both sides to call out the ****-stirrers who have no interest in anything but furthering arguments for lewls.

 

So just trying to see how war-like this war between good and evil for the soul of art is.  Because it seems like so far both sides are okay with at least phoning in bomb threats to places the other side is speaking at (or to their own so they can blame the opposite side).

 

 

Since when has GG celebrated harassment or violence in any way? The war-statement is a metaphor for winning, you know, like you tend to do in video-games. Besides, there's no virtue in moderation of censoring creativity, or as you might have noticed with the latest talks at the UN, it's about preserving freedom of expression.

[Orogun01]

So watched a few videos that were linked back that aways.

 

Mercedes Carrera has done better videos on the problems she has with SJW/Feminists/anti-GamerGate types. In this one she makes the same kind of flawed objection that a lot of anti-gamergate types did at the beginning of this (essentially "Who cares about ethics in journalism when women are being raped in the middle east" equivocates to "Why are you speaking to the UN about people pointing out flaws in your arguments online when marines are being fired for stopping men from raping boys in the middle east). She's clearly angry and probably not the best time to post an argumentative video.

It seems to me that this is a false equivalence, mainly because it assumes that the person voicing the concern and the person listening is the same in both cases. Journalistic outlets have a lot more listeners so with that comes a responsibility to make sure that the stories are right and the UN deals with should greater issues than a promiscuous woman who keeps putting herself on the line of fire because she stands to gain a lot from it. As opposed to journalists telling the average joe that they shouldn't have any burden because the average joe should just care about other things that are more important.

The Thunderfoot videos - one was a straight out lift of Feminist Frequency applied to things designed to appeal to women. Its not that difficult to deconstruct the problems with their arguments so its less interesting than it might possibly have been. The video where he showed the hate videos that had been made by him contrasted with Sarkesian at the UN(?) was more interesting just to show the ultimate problem with a lot of this debate - that both sides seem to be willing to ignore vitriol as long as its spewed at the appropriate target rather than treating it like the barnacle on their position that it is and calling them out so that these voices are removed from the discourse.

A lot of people are emotional and frustrated at the situation so vitriol becomes an outlet for them to vent.

 

Personally, I think either the UN is making a goodwill show for good PR or that if anything comes out of this it will mean a more regulated Internet which means an Internet that isn't free just like the rest of the damn country.

[Meshugger]

Topical: http://observer.com/2015/09/the-real-reason-we-need-to-stop-trying-to-protect-everyones-feelings/

[Hurlshort]

Ah, preserving freedom of expression by censoring people who want to censor. 

 

Instead of trawling twitter and getting angry and frustrated with crazy people, I prefer to be dismissive of them.  You know, like most of the world is.  I can't even find any major news organizations that have covered the UN report.  Have your games changed?  Nope, so calm down. 

[Meshugger]

Ah, preserving freedom of expression by censoring people who want to censor. 

 

Instead of trawling twitter and getting angry and frustrated with crazy people, I prefer to be dismissive of them.  You know, like most of the world is.  I can't even find any major news organizations that have covered the UN report.  Have your games changed?  Nope, so calm down. 

 

Wat

[Hurlshort]

 

Ah, preserving freedom of expression by censoring people who want to censor. 

 

Instead of trawling twitter and getting angry and frustrated with crazy people, I prefer to be dismissive of them.  You know, like most of the world is.  I can't even find any major news organizations that have covered the UN report.  Have your games changed?  Nope, so calm down. 

 

Wat

 

 

lol