Josh Sawyer confirms BG2-style weapon effects being added for White March including instant death effects

[Infinitron]

we added % chance effects and typed destruction to a bunch of weapons and the soulbound weapons improve when you do specific things w/ them

 

 

 

typed destruction being, like, troll slaying or something? cool

yeah

 

 

 

 

oh so like you can get a Greatsword of Ogre Slaying and if you slay 10 ogres with it or whatever it gets stronger? dope

yeah and most of them have a class-based branch.  e.g. St. Ydwen's Redeemer can be bound to fighters, paladins, or barbarians.  before binding, it's a fine greatsword with a 15% to destroy vessels.  when you bind it, it gets an additional power.  after you do a specific task (i think doing x damage to spirits) it gains an additional power, but this one is specific to the class of the binder.  fighters get a chance to proc pillar of faith.  paladins get a chance to proc divine mark.  barbarians get a chance to proc despondent blows.  after that you can upgrade it one more time.

 

 

 

 

nice. taking on a high-level vampire or something because i have a mace of undead slaying, a cleric who knew lesser restoration, and a big dream was a good feel in BG2

slight ruination to your dream: destruction effects only destroy an enemy if they are lower level than the attacker.  otherwise they cause a bunch of raw damage.

 

[Gary1986]

Ive never really liked the whole aspect of weapons targeting only certain races. I never enchant my weapons with any of  the 'Slaying (Beast)' etc type enchants. So the fact soulbound weapons will have them automatically on them is kinda off putting. 

 

What would happen if you decided to swap a soulbound weapon from paladin to fighter in like the middle of chapter 3, yet there were no more enemies of a certain type left in the game, which would result in you not being able to upgrade the soulbound weapon?

 

-Edited due to original post sounding to gloomy-

Edited August 19, 2015 by Gary1986

[MunoValente]

 I never enchant my weapons with any of  the 'Slaying (Beast)' etc  type enchants

I give pretty much everyone in my group Spirit Slaying, because spirits are the worst.  Last time I played I also did ranger with guns in 3 weapon slots and different slaying on each and switched through them both to avoid reloading and to get the slaying type I needed.

[Francis Ironwood]

I don't like the class restrictions on these things. I'm playing a battlepriest at the moment and i'm already restricted to only 2 weapon types (mace and greatsword) from Berath. Now I might not even be able to use all maces or greatswords.

 

"St. Ydwen's Redeemer can be bound to fighters, paladins, or barbarians.  before binding, it's a fine greatsword with a 15% to destroy vessels.  when you bind it, it gets an additional power.  after you do a specific task (i think doing x damage to spirits) it gains an additional power, but this one is specific to the class of the binder.  fighters get a chance to proc pillar of faith.  paladins get a chance to proc divine mark.  barbarians get a chance to proc despondent blows.  after that you can upgrade it one more time."

 

This bit kinda makes it seems like only fighter, paladin or barbarian can use this greatsword. So if they don't add more soulbound greatswords then Berath followers wouldn't even get a soulbound greatsword at all. Kinda worried that these will become the best weapons you can get and the class restrictions will screw someone over (mostly me, but I totally, definitely care about other people too, for realsies).

[anameforobsidian]

Class restrictions should be used very sparingly on weapons.  Iconic weapons for individual classes are great, but if they're too powerful, they have the potential to undermine the wide variety of equipment you can use.

 

I like the idea of the slayer weapons though.  I hope its not an enchantable enchantment.

[limaxophobiacq]

On-hit effects that dont require crits? Yes please, said every barbarian ever.

 

I'll dream of Celestial Fury with carnage tonight.

 

 

I don't like the class restrictions on these things. I'm playing a battlepriest at the moment and i'm already restricted to only 2 weapon types (mace and greatsword) from Berath. Now I might not even be able to use all maces or greatswords.

 

"St. Ydwen's Redeemer can be bound to fighters, paladins, or barbarians.  before binding, it's a fine greatsword with a 15% to destroy vessels.  when you bind it, it gets an additional power.  after you do a specific task (i think doing x damage to spirits) it gains an additional power, but this one is specific to the class of the binder.  fighters get a chance to proc pillar of faith.  paladins get a chance to proc divine mark.  barbarians get a chance to proc despondent blows.  after that you can upgrade it one more time."

 

This bit kinda makes it seems like only fighter, paladin or barbarian can use this greatsword. So if they don't add more soulbound greatswords then Berath followers wouldn't even get a soulbound greatsword at all. Kinda worried that these will become the best weapons you can get and the class restrictions will screw someone over (mostly me, but I totally, definitely care about other people too, for realsies).

 

Well soulbound weapons are supposed to always use whatever weapon focus you have (so even if your barbarian or fighter has weapon focus: peasant, it'll apply +6 accuracy to the soulbound greatsword), I don't know if this will apply to priests deity-specific talents though.

Edited August 19, 2015 by limaxophobiacq

[AndreaColombo]

Got a source? Was it on the Codex?

 

Can't find it on SA.

 

Pretty cool beans, anyway. Though I hope the Great Sword can also be enchanted to Superb on top of gaining those powers, otherwise I'll likely stick to Tidefall..

 

EDIT: Just found an older post from Josh that says soulbound weapons cannot be enchanted. Looks like I'll stick to Tidefall; no way I'm giving up on a Superb blade with draining for a Fine one, regardless of how many powers the latter has. My hype was just turned a notch down.

Edited August 19, 2015 by AndreaColombo

[Lord_Mord]

 

then Berath followers wouldn't even get a soulbound greatsword at all. Kinda worried that these will become the best weapons you can get and the class restrictions will screw someone over

 

So what? On every BG-playthrough I have one guy specialized in hammers and one on flail, so I can use Chrom Fair and the Flail of Ages. That is kind of limiting, too. But fun.

[Doppelschwert]

I don't like the class restrictions on these things. I'm playing a battlepriest at the moment and i'm already restricted to only 2 weapon types (mace and greatsword) from Berath. Now I might not even be able to use all maces or greatswords.

 

-snip-

 

This bit kinda makes it seems like only fighter, paladin or barbarian can use this greatsword. So if they don't add more soulbound greatswords then Berath followers wouldn't even get a soulbound greatsword at all. Kinda worried that these will become the best weapons you can get and the class restrictions will screw someone over (mostly me, but I totally, definitely care about other people too, for realsies).

 

For each class, there will be at least one soulbound weapon they can bind to, so your priest will be able to bind something. As has been said before, the general talent weapon focus applies to all of these regardless of type, but it is not known whether the priest diety buff will work as well with anything. Making a reasonable argument to josh, this might get patched in if it is not already available from the start.

 

Still, you can probably expect that there won't be a soulbound greatsword for priests, but I don't see how that is a flaw of the weapons instead of a flaw of the diety weapon focus. There are 5 gods for priests, so to cover all the diety weapon focus talents you would need 5 different soulbound weapons for priests to be available. There are probably 4 soulbound weapons in the expansion, given that they are expensive to make (and that number would cover each class once given what we know), so it doesn't work even if you make everything available to everyone (which would make it bland as hell in the process).

 

Depending on the implementation, you should expect your bonus to apply to the priest soulbound weapon, but it probably won't be a greatsword.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Doppelschwert

[Madscientist]

I don´t like this.

 

About soulbound weapons:

The first time I encountered soulbound weapons was in world of warcraft. A new troll entered the game world, beats some enemies and suddenly one of them drops a green axe. he looks at it, the stats look good and he wats to equip it. A message pops up: "This item will be bound to your soul if you equip it". The young troll was shocked, sold it to the next shop and continued with junk equipment.

Later I understood what it means. It should prevent that very good players kill the hardest boss at that time and sell the gear to everyone who can afford it. WoW is extremely gear dependent. Players should earn their equipment themselves. Also players should have less motivation to buy game money with real money.

All of these points are useless in POE because it is a single player game.

 

About class specific weapons:

in BG2 they where completely overpowered.

Holy Avenger (paladin only greatsword+5, 50% spell resistance, dispell magic on hit)

Staff of the Magi (mage only staff+5, lots of spells that recharge on rest, dispell magic on hit, you become permanently invisible unless you do a hostile action. Selecting the staff makes you invisible again infinite times)

You had to beat powerful enemies to get them and it was not required to finish the game. but Once you had them you will never equip anything else (except a ranged weapon with infinite ammo and other special abilities). If you do not know the game and you start to play a paladin who spends his points to fight with axes, you feel that the game punished you for your choice, even though you could not know this before.

There is one more very importand thing: POE was designed with the concept that every char can use every equipment. A Mage in plate armor and a greatsword? You can do it. So you play as warrior mage but suddenly the game gives you the staff of the Magi. How do you feel?

 

About slaying items:

The mace of disruption was extremely powerful. It was the only thing that allowed me to kill Kangax. Equip this weapon on somebody, cast pretection from undead on him, and he can kill an entire army alone.

The wave killed every fire elemental on hit.

In ToB you can find a great sword that has a 10% chance of killing any enemy (except bosses) on hit.

Those weapons are complete game breaking.

 

summary:

- I think it is Ok if you have weapons that are more effective against a certain type of enemy or that cause a status effect on hit. But slaying weapons are too powerful.

- POE wasbuild around the concept that everybody can equip everything. Thats why I think that soulbound weapons and class specific weapons are bad. I don´t like the class specific items that already exist in this game too.

[Infinitron]

So, we have another super innovative feature introduced by JES that needs to be backpedaled from? Good, maybe someday PoE will turn in to a decent game. 

An advice for future, when JES have another brilliant idea just don't implement it and OE will save money and resources by not implementing and later removing said feature from the game.

 

Uh? Nothing is being removed. New stuff is being added.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Infinitron

[Francis Ironwood]

 

 

For each class, there will be at least one soulbound weapon they can bind to, so your priest will be able to bind something. As has been said before, the general talent weapon focus applies to all of these regardless of type, but it is not known whether the priest diety buff will work as well with anything. Making a reasonable argument to josh, this might get patched in if it is not already available from the start.

 

Still, you can probably expect that there won't be a soulbound greatsword for priests, but I don't see how that is a flaw of the weapons instead of a flaw of the diety weapon focus. There are 5 gods for priests, so to cover all the diety weapon focus talents you would need 5 different soulbound weapons for priests to be available. There are probably 4 soulbound weapons in the expansion, given that they are expensive to make (and that number would cover each class once given what we know), so it doesn't work even if you make everything available to everyone (which would make it bland as hell in the process).

 

Depending on the implementation, you should expect your bonus to apply to the priest soulbound weapon, but it probably won't be a greatsword.

 

 

The weapon focus applying to soulbound weapons no matter what seems like a really nice idea. Hope it will apply to priest deity stuff. Subverts the trouble of making 5 weapons just for priests. Are there soulbound shields? Probably not. I wonder if two handers will be better since you get a "full" equipment set from just one weapon when dual wielders and S&B people would need something for the offhand too. I guess duelists could do with just 1 weapon also.

Kinda seems like there should be atleast one 1handed and one 2handed weapon for each class though. Maybe these things won't be the best weapons in the game at all so you won't feel like you're being punished for earlier choices. If the greatsword for example is the only soulbound weapon for barbarians but someone plays a dualwielding barb. They could always respec, but that ruins the rp aspect of making a build.

[Gfted1]

Huh, I thought Obs frowned on save-or-die / instadeath type mechanics.

[gkathellar]

Huh, I thought Obs frowned on save-or-die / instadeath type mechanics.

They did, presumably right up until they filled just about every map in the game with useless, boring trash mobs that take way too much energy to deal with because of the nature of PoE's combat.

 

That, or Josh is just bowing to IE grognards on the single worst thing from those games, despite continuing to ignore them on things they're right about.

 

Not that I'm bitter, or anything.

[Infinitron]

Huh, I thought Obs frowned on save-or-die / instadeath type mechanics.

 

Well, I doubt there's going to be a Greatsword of Player Character-Slaying. 

 

Also, the chance of the effect firing off will probably be very, very small.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Infinitron

[Madscientist]

 

Huh, I thought Obs frowned on save-or-die / instadeath type mechanics.

 

Well, I doubt there's going to be a Greatsword of Player Character-Slaying. 

 

Also, the chance of the effect firing off will probably be very, very small.

 

 

You mean something like this:

 

Sword of random killing:

- damage done: a random number between 1 and your character level

- targets a random defense and does random damage type

- 10% chance of inflicting a random status effect on the target

- 1% chance of inflicting a random status effect on yourself

- 1% chance of dealing a random amount of damage to yourself

- 0.1% chance of killing any target (100% hit chance)

 

and just for you:

0.01% chance of killing the player character

(dammit, I wanted to hit the troll, but I cut off the head of the guy next to me.)

[Killyox]

I see most people miss a certain thing about this.

 

 

 

It's optional. Don't use it if you think it will make game too easy or w/e. Nothing complex about this. I know I won't use them if they make game too easy.

 

On the other hand hey! You can out more into Condition and other stats because of added power XD

Edited August 19, 2015 by Killyox

[gkathellar]

I see most people miss a certain thing about this.

 

It's optional. Don't use it if you think it will make game too easy or w/e.

Difficulty should be a function of difficulty settings, not of self-restrictions that only players with extensive metagame knowledge know they should impose on themselves.

 

Excusing imbalances on the grounds that, "you don't have to use it if you don't want to," fundamentally misunderstands why imbalances are problematic: they make characters' abilities difficult to predict for both players and developers. Swinginess is no different. It takes the kind of predictability you want in a game, and punches it in the face.

[Madscientist]

This is one thing that made BG and POE less fun on later playthroughs.

I know where to find things and build chars around gear I will find.

 

The first time I build my char around a concept and it worked. I explored dungeons and asked myself "What great things will I get behind the next corner?"

Now I play a barbarien and I knew before where to find tall grass and tidefall and that they both belong to the soldier set.

 

I agree that saying "It is optional. You don´t have to do it." is nonsense.

Look at the people who post their character builds (including myself). They create their char around certain items they will find at certain locations.

 

In my very first post in this forum I said that after lots of thinking I came to the conclusion that random equipment is good.

In D:OS I can create my char around a concept but not around a specific piece of equipment.

I can create a fighter who uses 2 handed weapons and heavy armor. I do not know exactly what equipment I will find, but I can be sure that I will find something.

 

I think, that POE did lots of things better than BG2. But regarding this topic, I think they move in the wrong direction.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Madscientist

[Lord_Mord]

I don't know D:OS. How do they do that? Is every item randomly placed? Are there special items like the flail of ages? If yes, how do they manage that it doesn't feel random? I always liked the idea that a certain item waits in a certain dungeon, to be found by a certain CHARNAME (that is you). A Ring of Kangaxx isn't a Ring of Kangaxx anymore, if it isn't guarded by Kangaxx himself.

[AndreaColombo]

Personally, I find random loot very annoying. Ultimately, I do want the ability to build my character around certain pieces of equipment for maximum combat efficiency. That's how I like to play.

 

The fact that, for example, the Gauntlets of Accuracy can only be had through random loot is frustrating for me. If my build makes use of them, I'd rather cheat than to play without them.

 

There's nothing wrong with building around a concept but, likewise, there is also nothing wrong with building around equipment.

Edited August 19, 2015 by AndreaColombo

[Gfted1]

The fact that, for example, the Gauntlets of Accuracy can only be had through random loot is frustrating for me. If my build makes use of them, I'd rather cheat than to play without them.

Ive been interested to see how this was received by players. I greatly dislike random loot so I was wondering what people do to combat this. Do you save before every container and then open them, reloading and camping until the timer reaches the item you want?

[gkathellar]

Personally, I find random loot very annoying. Ultimately, I do want the ability to build my character around certain pieces of equipment for maximum combat efficiency. That's how I like to play.

 

The fact that, for example, the Gauntlets of Accuracy can only be had through random loot is frustrating for me. If my build makes use of them, I'd rather cheat than to play without them.

 

There's nothing wrong with building around a concept but, likewise, there is also nothing wrong with building around equipment.

Which is why it's so important to have a wide variety of gear to cater to numerous different characters and builds - so that you can do both.

 

There's nothing implicitly wrong with random loot, just as there's nothing implicitly wrong with randomly killing an enemy on a hit. But these things have to be viewed in context. Random loot is appropriate in a D:OS for the same reason it's appropriate in a Diablo or a Torchlight - a great abundance of gear allows that your stuff will be constantly replaced by the 5% that, statistically, is going to cater to your build. But in a PoE, where gear serves a world-building role, and is meant to last for a while, it's less appropriate.

 

Instakill effects are similar. It's fine for random encounters to go down instantly in, say, Etrian Odyssey, or Torchlight, or another game where those opponents are basically disposable. But in a game like D:OS or PoE, where enemies are individually placed and encounters are built with consideration, instadeath is problematic.

 

... or at least, that's how I feel it should be. In reality, PoE's encounters are mostly about filling space. Instakill just reinforces the point.

[transfett]

In D:OS you get items with randomly rolled stats depending on item level and item tier.

I do not think that this kind of loot would be helpful to PoE.

When you play the game for the first time, you do not know which items you will find either way.

This game just lacks variety in the bonuses items grant you. It is all modular and does not really differ from what you could find if it was procedurally created.

The true difference is that in D:OS you had many more different bonuses for each different kind of item you might get rolled, so you were really happy if you got what "perfectly suits you and the other stuff you already have".

I would like many items with active abilities or situational passives. Something like a spear that prevents healing and resurrection or a shield that taunts beetles and spiders.

 

These soulbound weapons sound like some EA treatment. Overpowered stuff for Nerds with Inferiority Complex. Having everything you wanted. No thought and choice required. EDIT: Yes instadeath mechanics is - if implemented at all- for highest tier items and can change the difficulty of encounters in mind-numbing randomness.

Edited August 19, 2015 by transfett

[AndreaColombo]

 

Ive been interested to see how this was received by players. I greatly dislike random loot so I was wondering what people do to combat this. Do you save before every container and then open them, reloading and camping until the timer reaches the item you want?

I use the IE Mod's random loot shuffler, so that random loot is reshuffled every time the game is reloaded. I usually reload a bunch of times to get what I want. If I can't get it in a reasonable time and I get tired of reloading, I bring up the console, cheat in what I wanted, and keep playing.