Which attribute is the most useful in dialogues/interactions?

[Krajzen]

Talking from a perspective of a finished game, what attributes over the course of it are the most useful (most often/most important) during NPC conversations and scripted interactions?

 

I ask partly from pure curiosity what people consider as best in this regard, partly from my dilemma - I am wondering if I did my character properly and considering using IE mod to move points from one attribute (Intellect) to another (Resolve) mainly because of dialogue/roleplay reasons (well I could raise both attributes but this would be unfair, I wanna keep zero-sum ).

 

Oh, and I put this in spoiler-allowed forum but still I would ask for avoiding spoilers when they are unnecessary.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Krajzen

[Omnicron]

I ran the game solo and finished with only 12 kills. Resolve is the only attribute which really matters to complete quests through dialogue. Only one intelligence check, but it is optional, depending on how you handle the first part. 

 

( http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79761-12-kill-run-class-build-and-guide/ )

Edited May 27, 2015 by Omnicron

[Zwiebelchen]

Depends a lot on what your favorite reputation choices are, as some of those attributes are often paired with reputation choices.

 

Regardless of your choices: Resolve, Perception, Intelligence are the most prominent attribute checks in that order. There are some few Might checks in dialogue, but those are usually tied to aggressive or cruel reputations.

 

 

Resolve is often paired with the passionate reputation, so if you play a passionate character, you should possibly put some points into resolve.

Perception is mostly standalone and allows to bypass some dialogue. I don't remember a lot of choices where it is tied to a reputation.

Intelligence checks are actually rarer that you might think. I only came across very few intelligence checks that actually mattered. And most of them required only 14 Intelligence. Very few needed 17. I can only remember one situation where 18 points were needed (and you can always use food or resting bonuses for that).

 

 

I'd say you should get at least one of those attributes into the 17'ish range (with buffs). There are only very few checks beyond 17. I think only Resolve has a 19/20 check at one point.

 

Is it important to stat for attribute checks?

Nope, you can mostly bypass attribute checks with reputation answers.

 

 

So if you want to play a DPS character, no reason really to stack Resolve or Perception. Intelligence is nice to have for every character anyway, so I'd say put some points into it.

 

 

Might, Dex and Constitution are pretty much useless in dialogues. Scripted text events mostly allow bypassing those attribute checks with crowbars or grappling hooks or allow you to pick a character to check.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[Omnicron]

Agreed, however I cannot remember Perception ever being useful in quest completion, it just add some details. Or rather, whenever Perception was useful Resolve could also be used. So it depends what you define as useful (I think of it as quest completion).  Intelligence can be used in a few interactions where Resolve is not an option. Often you will have a choice between using reputation or resolve to solve  a quest. Highest Resolve check is 20, and highest Intelligence check is 19

 

There are two Dexterity checks I encountered, and it was with the appropriate character. One is with the Dozens, where you can steal the Key from the Giant Slayers instead of fighting them, and the other is to Open the scroll on the way to Twin Elms without breaking the seal in Elmshore

Edited May 27, 2015 by Omnicron

[Nakia]

I play on Expert Mode so I get no hints as to which is the best answer to give to get a certain rep.  I have found that a high intellect combined with lore gives me the choices I prefer.  I am currently playing with a PC that has a high intellect but the lore is still low and I find his choices not as good as the ones for my prior PC.  Resolve is beneficial in certain circumstances and for an aggressive character might.  

[Bryy]

My first playthrough, I picked INT because I wanted to RP as a tactical warrior. Then I found out that INT doesn't necessarily mean more intelligent replies.

 

Resolve has the best replies.

[srlapo]

Without spoiling... Per, Int and Res are the most used for good dialogue choices, like alternate quest endings or bypassing some quest requirements. Most Mig choices are for intimidation, with some brute force problem solving mixed in (this can usually be done by a companion), there are few Dex choices and they didn't do much and I think I only saw one Con choice for a unique weapon, and you can send a companion to do it.

 

Oh, and while we are at this, the lore skill is the one that gives most of the dialogue choices, mechanics gives a few and athletics is used for fatigue and to avoid injury in some scripted events. No idea what survival does for dialogues and scripted scenes, I never put any points in it.

Edited May 28, 2015 by srlapo

[Crucis]

Without spoiling... Per, Int and Res are the most used for good dialogue choices, like alternate quest endings or bypassing some quest requirements. Most Mig choices are for intimidation, with some brute force problem solving mixed in (this can usually be done by a companion), there are few Dex choices and they didn't do much and I think I only saw one Con choice for a unique weapon, and you can send a companion to do it.

 

If this is the one I'm thinking of, the required CON can be on anyone in the party.  In my last party, Eder had the highest CON so I had him make the effort.

[Zwiebelchen]

I play on Expert Mode so I get no hints as to which is the best answer to give to get a certain rep.  I have found that a high intellect combined with lore gives me the choices I prefer.  I am currently playing with a PC that has a high intellect but the lore is still low and I find his choices not as good as the ones for my prior PC.  Resolve is beneficial in certain circumstances and for an aggressive character might.  

 

I gotta say I always applaude the guys who play this on expert mode. Must be tough; I haven't ticket that box yet... the reason for that is that I found not all reputations perfectly represented in the answers.

Often, it's hard to tell, for example, which answer is "honest" or just "rational". "Diplomatic" often didn't feel diplomatic enough for me... more than often I felt that the general response was more diplomatic than the diplomatic choice. Sometimes, "passionate" seems to drift into "aggressive" territory for me.

 

Though the worst reputation, by far, was "clever". I just hated the forced jokes. 90% of them just weren't funny or appropriate.

The only "clever" answer in the game that I really liked was when you beat Maerwald and the statue asks you if you beat him, and you tell her that you beat many of him... (because of his split personality)

 

I wouldn't say that this is bad writing, it's just that sometimes the tags are oddly placed, which is why I would never play in expert mode.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[Yria]

Oh, and while we are at this, the lore skill is the one that gives most of the dialogue choices, mechanics gives a few and athletics is used for fatigue and to avoid injury in some scripted events. No idea what survival does for dialogues and scripted scenes, I never put any points in it.

Survival is actually quite usefull in some quests. Sometimes it allows you to get much better outcomes. 

[Bryy]

All of the skills are actually really usesful.

[TT1]

Might, Dex and Constitution are pretty much useless in dialogues. Scripted text events mostly allow bypassing those attribute checks with crowbars or grappling hooks or allow you to pick a character to check.

 

Not true. There are easily more than 2 dozen Might checks in dialogues. Most of them associated with Cruel or aggressive.

[Crucis]

 

I play on Expert Mode so I get no hints as to which is the best answer to give to get a certain rep.  I have found that a high intellect combined with lore gives me the choices I prefer.  I am currently playing with a PC that has a high intellect but the lore is still low and I find his choices not as good as the ones for my prior PC.  Resolve is beneficial in certain circumstances and for an aggressive character might.  

 

I gotta say I always applaude the guys who play this on expert mode. Must be tough; I haven't ticket that box yet... the reason for that is that I found not all reputations perfectly represented in the answers.

Often, it's hard to tell, for example, which answer is "honest" or just "rational". "Diplomatic" often didn't feel diplomatic enough for me... more than often I felt that the general response was more diplomatic than the diplomatic choice. Sometimes, "passionate" seems to drift into "aggressive" territory for me.

 

Though the worst reputation, by far, was "clever". I just hated the forced jokes. 90% of them just weren't funny or appropriate.

The only "clever" answer in the game that I really liked was when you beat Maerwald and the statue asks you if you beat him, and you tell her that you beat many of him... (because of his split personality)

 

I wouldn't say that this is bad writing, it's just that sometimes the tags are oddly placed, which is why I would never play in expert mode.

 

 

I agree with what you're saying here for the most part.  That said, I wouldn't assume that just because something is tagged "clever" that that means that it's truly meant to come off as humorous to everyone (including the characters to whom the speaker is speaking).  "Clever" responses often come off as snarky and aren't well received.  And I think that's how it's meant to be, though it seems like an odd disposition for paladins and clerics when you get right down to it.  One would think that snarkiness and poor jokes wouldn't really make for a worthy disposition.  I'd think that real cleverness would be less about snarkiness and bad jokes and more about inventive solutions to problems and at least a relatively funny quick wit.  But oh well.

[Zwiebelchen]

 

 

I play on Expert Mode so I get no hints as to which is the best answer to give to get a certain rep.  I have found that a high intellect combined with lore gives me the choices I prefer.  I am currently playing with a PC that has a high intellect but the lore is still low and I find his choices not as good as the ones for my prior PC.  Resolve is beneficial in certain circumstances and for an aggressive character might.  

 

I gotta say I always applaude the guys who play this on expert mode. Must be tough; I haven't ticket that box yet... the reason for that is that I found not all reputations perfectly represented in the answers.

Often, it's hard to tell, for example, which answer is "honest" or just "rational". "Diplomatic" often didn't feel diplomatic enough for me... more than often I felt that the general response was more diplomatic than the diplomatic choice. Sometimes, "passionate" seems to drift into "aggressive" territory for me.

 

Though the worst reputation, by far, was "clever". I just hated the forced jokes. 90% of them just weren't funny or appropriate.

The only "clever" answer in the game that I really liked was when you beat Maerwald and the statue asks you if you beat him, and you tell her that you beat many of him... (because of his split personality)

 

I wouldn't say that this is bad writing, it's just that sometimes the tags are oddly placed, which is why I would never play in expert mode.

 

 

I agree with what you're saying here for the most part.  That said, I wouldn't assume that just because something is tagged "clever" that that means that it's truly meant to come off as humorous to everyone (including the characters to whom the speaker is speaking).  "Clever" responses often come off as snarky and aren't well received.  And I think that's how it's meant to be, though it seems like an odd disposition for paladins and clerics when you get right down to it.  One would think that snarkiness and poor jokes wouldn't really make for a worthy disposition.  I'd think that real cleverness would be less about snarkiness and bad jokes and more about inventive solutions to problems and at least a relatively funny quick wit.  But oh well.

 

Tbh, I haven't seen "clever" from the "snarky" point of view. Now that you say that, it seems that most "clever" choices are actually more into snarky territory... if we interpret clever as just that, then I think a lot of the written dialogue for it actually make sense.

... which is still somewhat disappointing. "Clever" reputation was the perfect way to lighten up an overall grimdark game. I enjoyed some of the funny responses in the IE games... and I was looking forward playing a "clever" character because of that. But it didn't feel the same, as mostly the answers went straight into ****-territory.

 

In the game, inventive solutions, as you say, are more related to Intelligence checks. Which imho makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't want this tied to a reputation.

 

 

Btw, the severe lack of lore-check dialogue was surprising. From all the selectable skills, I expected lore to have the most impact on dialogue and quests. But it hardly even mattered in the game. I encountered only a couple of lore checks in the entire game.

 

 

 

Now, armed with meta-game knowledge, I mostly specc all my characters the same, including the PC:

 

4 points in athletics to prevent early exhaustion.

4 points in stealth for all melees to make pre-positioning easier.

8 Lore for Chanters, Barbarians and Rangers, which unlocks usage of almost all scrolls in the game.

Max mechanics for Priests. Mages and Druids for traps.

Max stealth for Cipher* and Rogue, for pre-combat positioning and robbing of houses.

 

*The most powerful cipher spells are heavily dependant on good positioning. I absolutely love stealthing my Cipher behind an enemy pack and opening the battle with Ectopsychic Echo.

[Crucis]

 

 

 

I play on Expert Mode so I get no hints as to which is the best answer to give to get a certain rep.  I have found that a high intellect combined with lore gives me the choices I prefer.  I am currently playing with a PC that has a high intellect but the lore is still low and I find his choices not as good as the ones for my prior PC.  Resolve is beneficial in certain circumstances and for an aggressive character might.  

 

I gotta say I always applaude the guys who play this on expert mode. Must be tough; I haven't ticket that box yet... the reason for that is that I found not all reputations perfectly represented in the answers.

Often, it's hard to tell, for example, which answer is "honest" or just "rational". "Diplomatic" often didn't feel diplomatic enough for me... more than often I felt that the general response was more diplomatic than the diplomatic choice. Sometimes, "passionate" seems to drift into "aggressive" territory for me.

 

Though the worst reputation, by far, was "clever". I just hated the forced jokes. 90% of them just weren't funny or appropriate.

The only "clever" answer in the game that I really liked was when you beat Maerwald and the statue asks you if you beat him, and you tell her that you beat many of him... (because of his split personality)

 

I wouldn't say that this is bad writing, it's just that sometimes the tags are oddly placed, which is why I would never play in expert mode.

 

 

I agree with what you're saying here for the most part.  That said, I wouldn't assume that just because something is tagged "clever" that that means that it's truly meant to come off as humorous to everyone (including the characters to whom the speaker is speaking).  "Clever" responses often come off as snarky and aren't well received.  And I think that's how it's meant to be, though it seems like an odd disposition for paladins and clerics when you get right down to it.  One would think that snarkiness and poor jokes wouldn't really make for a worthy disposition.  I'd think that real cleverness would be less about snarkiness and bad jokes and more about inventive solutions to problems and at least a relatively funny quick wit.  But oh well.

 

Tbh, I haven't seen "clever" from the "snarky" point of view. Now that you say that, it seems that most "clever" choices are actually more into snarky territory... if we interpret clever as just that, then I think a lot of the written dialogue for it actually make sense.

... which is still somewhat disappointing. "Clever" reputation was the perfect way to lighten up an overall grimdark game. I enjoyed some of the funny responses in the IE games... and I was looking forward playing a "clever" character because of that. But it didn't feel the same, as mostly the answers went straight into ****-territory.

 

In the game, inventive solutions, as you say, are more related to Intelligence checks. Which imho makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't want this tied to a reputation.

 

 

Btw, the severe lack of lore-check dialogue was surprising. From all the selectable skills, I expected lore to have the most impact on dialogue and quests. But it hardly even mattered in the game. I encountered only a couple of lore checks in the entire game.

 

 

 

Now, armed with meta-game knowledge, I mostly specc all my characters the same, including the PC:

 

4 points in athletics to prevent early exhaustion.

4 points in stealth for all melees to make pre-positioning easier.

8 Lore for Chanters, Barbarians and Rangers, which unlocks usage of almost all scrolls in the game.

Max mechanics for Priests. Mages and Druids for traps.

Max stealth for Cipher* and Rogue, for pre-combat positioning and robbing of houses.

 

*The most powerful cipher spells are heavily dependant on good positioning. I absolutely love stealthing my Cipher behind an enemy pack and opening the battle with Ectopsychic Echo.

 

 

Zw, I think that you're probably right.  To the best of my recollection, the "Clever" responses do seem to be more "snarky" than they are nicely humorous.  They're more funny in a snarky way, which means the butt of the joke probably isn't going to think the comment was funny at all. 

 

And I think that you're right that it'd be nice if there was room for some humorous dialog options, at least in dialogs where a little levity wasn't going to be utterly out of place.  Then again, I suppose that that's what some of the inserted Companion asides in those dialogs are for.

 

"Inventive solutions" tied to INT?  Yeah, makes perfect sense.

 

Regarding things like Lore and Survival checks, what I'd like to see is to check the entire party, not just the PC.  I mean, if Aloth (assuming that he has sufficiently high Lore) knows something pertinent to the dialog due to his Lore, it'd be nice to have access to his knowledge, though I'll admit that I'm not entirely sure how this would play out in a dialog.

 

Looking over your list of skill distributions....

 

I prefer to have my entire have respectable Stealth, 3 or 4 is usually enough.  Why?  Because if I move my front liners relatively close-ish, that means that the back liners are also starting to get somewhat close-ish.  And I don't want to have stealth broken because the enemy spots my back liners before the front liners.  That's just embarrassing.

 

For Athletics, I've usually found 3 points to be entirely sufficient for exhaustion prevention.

 

I'm surprised to see that much Lore on Barbs and Rangers.  I actually do put some Lore on front liners, usually enough for level 1 or 2 spells.  Mostly because I find that level 1 spells like Fan of Flames or Jolting Touch are more easily used by front liners than backliners.  But I can see some possible value in having a Ranger have max Lore, since he's probably hanging out with the other backline spellcasters, and in certain battles, having another potential spellcaster can be very, very handy.  Oh the whole, I find that it's useful to have at least 3 out of the 6 in the party having max or close to max Lore very useful for those certain battles. 

 

When I have a Rogue in my party, I tend to have him/her have max Mechanics.  I don't mind spending some points on Mechanics for a cleric for the seal spells.  But Rogues are the best traps and locks guys.   As for stealth on Rogues, that's my #2 priority for them and nearly all of the remaining skill points go there after Mechanics.

 

The one skill that I just don't find necessary is Survival.  I honestly haven't made a lot of use out of the various foods and non-healing potions in my 3 run-throughs of the game.  I did use some foods and potions for pre-buffing prior to the final battle on my 3rd party, as well as a few in-battle buffing potions. (I used the Arcane Accuracy? on my Rogue right before I intended to have her use a Finish Blow shot on one of the final battle enemies, because I wanted her to have the best chance possible to hit and to crit her target .... which she did for 150 points of damage!!!)  While Survival can be useful, I don't find it truly necessary.  You can succeed in this game just fine without the duration extensions that Survival provides.

[Venatio]

Resolve and Intelligence are both very important. But, unlike Resolve, you can get  a very high bonus for Intelligence very easily. Sleep at the Brackenbury Inn for +4, eat a food item for +2, and wear a clothing item for another +2 and you have +8 Intelligence you can use at the Ducal Animancy Debates, the highest Intelligence selection being just 16. 

 

As for Resolve, you will require, I believe, at least the ability to reach 19-20 to make the biggest speech choices (making someone drink poison). 

 

Perception comes third, but you will rarely need it over 13 to notice stuff and it is not essential for progressing any quests. 

[Faerunner]

I personally think it depends on how you want to play. As others have said, Resolve technically makes the biggest impact since you can change the outcome of quests and change people's minds, but I think they all have value. To whit:

 

1) Resolve most often changes the outcome of quests and conversations since you can use your passion and/or force of personality to make people change their mind on things.

 

-The downside though is that you almost always need REALLY HIGH Resolve to make any dent in conversations. 12-14 almost never cuts it, you need 16-19 almost every time. So unless you're min-maxing and want to make Resolve one of your maxed stats, you might as well not invest any extra points.

 

2) I think Intelligence can be very important too, since you can outsmart and talk circles around your opponent.

 

-Another upside is there are on average different tiers in Intelligence; 13-14 for mild intelligence checks (catching people on lies or inconsistencies, pointing out something they hadn't noticed or thought about, etc), and super high 16+ points where you basically sound like a college professor. You can invest a few points and be smarter than the average country bumpkin, or you can be Aloth, depending on your preference.

 

3) Perception is greatly underrated, but I personally like it. Mostly because I like being a hawke-eyed hunter who can call people out on lies and inconsistencies. (Most "perception checks" in conversations really is just calling people out on lying and bull****ting you, which I always love.) 

 

-An upside that I love is that you don't really need high Perception to meet conversation checks; most Perception checks are only 12, occasionally 13 and RARELY 14+. So you can invest in one or two points, rely on inn-rests, items and food for the rest, and manage to be a smartass who points out how odd it is that the guy who claims he was indoors all day has caked mud on his boots.

 

Probably just me, but that's my vote. I haven't made a character yet who had reason to max Resolve, but I've found that a few points in Intelligence and Perception peppered the conversations beautifully, and I like playing characters who are sharp and perceptive over being passionate and hot-blooded anyway.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Faerunner

[player1]

 

>>>As for Resolve, you will require, I believe, at least the ability to reach 19-20 to make the biggest speech choices (making someone drink poison). 

 

 

In my playthrough I solved that one by one 19 resolve and one 19 perception check.

Edited June 2, 2015 by player1