Everything's Great - An anti-whinge Part 1

[213374U]

I got a large bag full of fresh celery for $2.00 at my local meijer grocery store. You can get an entire sack of potatoes for $1.89. There is plenty of decent food that is easily affordable if one is willing to buy it. Every day I see it, lots of fresh healthy food sold at very low prices that people ignore in favor of junk food and soda (soda isn't even cheap!). Give me $45 and I can eat reasonably well for a month.

That's great. Where do you get your proteins from, though. Photosynthesis?

 

And there's a reason (well, several) why large food retail chains can offer prices that low. But even if I posted and discussed it, you wouldn't read it anyway, since you already know everything you need to, because you're smart and everyone else is dumb. So enjoy while it lasts.

 

 

Marketable skills or the willingness to learn marketable skills, and the will to apply those skills.

So... unemployed or unsuccessful people with marketable skills do not exist or if they do, it's because they lack the will to apply said skills, right? Okay, so where does that will or lack thereof come from?

 

And what about people who can't learn marketable skills for whatever reasons?

 

The whole "marketable" paradigm is bunk, btw. What's marketable today can be worthless tomorrow. As established by the market, that empyreal force of nature that is the end-all be-all of human societies.

 

 

I have. Me. With my skills I could easily make much more money than I do, but I'm not willing to do the work. Which is fine, and I don't complain about my lot in life; I have everything I'm willing to work for. I own my own land, I have plenty of food ( I buy some and grow some), and I got my vidya games.

Eh, no. You have decided not to earn as much money as you possibly could given your skills. That's a choice poor people don't get to make because they by definition aren't making as much money as they need. To put things in perspective, you need to eat ~1 gram of protein per bodyweight pound per day. You do not need a 24'' flat screen TV.

 

So, no. You aren't poor. I'll ask again: Have you met many people that freely, consciously made the choice to be poor, unhappy, unsuccessful or otherwise miserable?

 

 

So you're talking about society in general, but fish prices do affect you personally. You know there's more food to eat than just fish and healthy food too.

 

Yes, everything is great for me. Instead of moping and shouting the sky is falling, I've done something with my life.

 

YOU asked HOW Barothmuk was being affected by sexism and racism, the erosion of civil liberties and unsustainable exploitation of natural resources. Granted, I'm still not Barothmuk, but I provided exactly what you were asking for. How vague, society-wide problems were affecting day-to-day life. If your rebuttal is that since I don't protest every day, anti-protest legislation isn't really affecting my day-to-day life, well, yeah dude, you're right. And your solution to price increases in fish due to unsustainable practices is... not to eat fish. I believe congratulations are in order. Your logic is both bulletproof and completely irrelevant. Are you perchance a trial lawyer?

 

Don't mistake moping with reckoning that not everything is rainbows and sunshines and that things are getting worse rather than better. Your solution to societal problems amounts to "420 BLAZE IT ****", only with a hardcore achiever spin. Go go internet übermensch power fantasies.

[Namutree]

 

I got a large bag full of fresh celery for $2.00 at my local meijer grocery store. You can get an entire sack of potatoes for $1.89. There is plenty of decent food that is easily affordable if one is willing to buy it. Every day I see it, lots of fresh healthy food sold at very low prices that people ignore in favor of junk food and soda (soda isn't even cheap!). Give me $45 and I can eat reasonably well for a month.

That's great. Where do you get your proteins from, though. Photosynthesis?

I didn't bother to name off every cheap and at least decently healthy food in existence. Jeez.

 

 

I have. Me. With my skills I could easily make much more money than I do, but I'm not willing to do the work. Which is fine, and I don't complain about my lot in life; I have everything I'm willing to work for. I own my own land, I have plenty of food ( I buy some and grow some), and I got my vidya games.

Eh, no. You have decided not to earn as much money as you possibly could given your skills. That's a choice poor people don't get to make because they by definition aren't making as much money as they need. To put things in perspective, you need to eat ~1 gram of protein per bodyweight pound per day. You do not need a 24'' flat screen TV.

 

That's not what defines poor. Nearly all poor people in the US can afford what they need. I think you are confusing poor with destitute. In the US anyone single person household that earns less than $11,770 is poor.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Namutree

[213374U]

Actually yes. I knew a lady when I lived in South Florida. She worked two jobs making near minimum wage and was so deep in credit card debt she had almost no hope of getting out. But she smoked 2 cartons of cigarettes a week and blew $200 a week in the Seminole Indian Casino. I told her to stop smoking and stop gambling and her financial situation would improve immediately. She wouldn't do either. Sometimes she won a few hundred bucks but spent thousands to do it.

So, you told someone with a clear addiction problem to knock it off. I know you are a sensible guy so I suspect you weren't surprised when she didn't listen to your well-meaning advice. Don't hold it against her, though. People who frequently engage in self-destructive behavior are simply unable to break off the vicious circle by themselves in most cases. I agree, the first step is to stop digging, but even that may be beyond what that lady's capacity. Let's say I can bench 265 and you can bench 300. No matter how hard I try, I'm not benching 300. Does that make me weak? With proper guidance, training I may get there and beyond, but the starting point is different for everyone owing to a myriad different biological and environmental factors. Willpower, much like physical strength, isn't unlimited. Same for reasoning ability, etc. You literally have no idea how hard she may have been struggling because you are not her and you only caught a glimpse of her life.

 

Why do people do stuff that is bad for them? Why do they make evidently bad decisions? Why can't they cease certain behaviors despite being aware of the evident negative consequences of their actions? Because people aren't rational. Intelligence is much like an iceberg; a large part is hidden under the surface and we are oblivious to its influence. Research has shown emotions to be key in the decision-making process but emotions reside in the limbic system, an ancient brain we share with reptiles, more primitive mammals and birds. They are beyond our control and identifying them doesn't come naturally.

 

Ultimately it's a debate about free will, and the jury's still out on that one.

 

BTW I liked your stance on "going where the work is". Does this also apply to foreign workers entering another country illegally to find work if none is to be had at home?

[213374U]

I didn't bother to name off every cheap and at least decently healthy food in existence. Jeez.

I'd rather examine your claims in detail before accepting them, thank you. Oh, wait. We don't really need to. Eating healthy would increase food costs for one person by $550 per year. This increase alone is higher than your $45/mo figure. So, chances are, you aren't really eating healthy. The other possibility is that you are growing a large part of your food, but you aren't computing the (opportunity) cost. Either way, it's not $45.

 

 

 

That's not what defines poor. Nearly all poor people in the US can afford what they need. I think you are confusing poor with destitute. In the US anyone single person household that earns less than $11,770 is poor.

No, I'm not confusing anything. Official figures show that, in 2013, the poverty rate (defined by people living under the poverty line as calculated by the US Census) was 14.5%. In the same year, 14.3% of all households in the US were in a situation of food insecurity, with 5.6% being in a situation of very low food security, i.e. they couldn't afford as much food as they needed at some point. So, no, "nearly all poor people" cannot afford to eat well, let alone less immediate needs.

[Guard Dog]

 

Actually yes. I knew a lady when I lived in South Florida. She worked two jobs making near minimum wage and was so deep in credit card debt she had almost no hope of getting out. But she smoked 2 cartons of cigarettes a week and blew $200 a week in the Seminole Indian Casino. I told her to stop smoking and stop gambling and her financial situation would improve immediately. She wouldn't do either. Sometimes she won a few hundred bucks but spent thousands to do it.

So, you told someone with a clear addiction problem to knock it off. I know you are a sensible guy so I suspect you weren't surprised when she didn't listen to your well-meaning advice. Don't hold it against her, though. People who frequently engage in self-destructive behavior are simply unable to break off the vicious circle by themselves in most cases. I agree, the first step is to stop digging, but even that may be beyond what that lady's capacity. Let's say I can bench 265 and you can bench 300. No matter how hard I try, I'm not benching 300. Does that make me weak? With proper guidance, training I may get there and beyond, but the starting point is different for everyone owing to a myriad different biological and environmental factors. Willpower, much like physical strength, isn't unlimited. Same for reasoning ability, etc. You literally have no idea how hard she may have been struggling because you are not her and you only caught a glimpse of her life.

 

Why do people do stuff that is bad for them? Why do they make evidently bad decisions? Why can't they cease certain behaviors despite being aware of the evident negative consequences of their actions? Because people aren't rational. Intelligence is much like an iceberg; a large part is hidden under the surface and we are oblivious to its influence. Research has shown emotions to be key in the decision-making process but emotions reside in the limbic system, an ancient brain we share with reptiles, more primitive mammals and birds. They are beyond our control and identifying them doesn't come naturally.

 

Ultimately it's a debate about free will, and the jury's still out on that one.

 

BTW I liked your stance on "going where the work is". Does this also apply to foreign workers entering another country illegally to find work if none is to be had at home?

 

Oh I don't disagree with you about dealing with an addiction. In Sandy's case it certainly fits. But it is still choices she made. Yes people are irrational. Many of them are lazy. But in the end we are all accountable for the choices we make. It's not the ants fault when the grasshopper starves to death in the winter. Unless someone is elderly or infirmed or dealing with a real disability that prevents them from helping themselves (in which case we do have social safety nets to help them) then everyone's first responsibility it to take care of themselves. Like Namutree pointed out he is happy with what he has in life and he know if he ever wanted more it's there to be had as long as he is willing to do what is needed to get it. 

 

As to your second point it does apply to the folks coming into the US illegally to work. It's not their fault the US immigration system is broken or that laws are so lax as allow agri-business & construction companies to abuse them by underpaying them. They are simply making use of what is.

[Namutree]

 

I didn't bother to name off every cheap and at least decently healthy food in existence. Jeez.

I'd rather examine your claims in detail before accepting them, thank you. Oh, wait. We don't really need to. Eating healthy would increase food costs for one person by $550 per year. This increase alone is higher than your $45/mo figure. So, chances are, you aren't really eating healthy. The other possibility is that you are growing a large part of your food, but you aren't computing the (opportunity) cost. Either way, it's not $45.

1: That research assumes one is still consuming certain types of food I'm assuming would be omitted such as soda/juice. I wouldn't purchase soda/juice in this $45 dollar scenario. In fact, I barely purchase them now. They're a huge waste of money and no one needs them.

 

2: This research looks for the mean retail prices for healthier food and diet patterns. Considering there are some very expensive diet foods & diet patterns the results are skewed to be more expensive than an attempt at a cheap & reasonably healthy diet would be. If it was a comparison of the cheapest unhealthy diet vs. the cheapest healthy diet I doubt there would be anything near a $500 difference between the two.

 

My claim is possible. Also, just to be clear; I'm not claiming I currently subsist on a $45 a month food budget with a diet that is reasonably healthy, but only that it is possible to do so. I actually am not quite sure what my average food budget is. 

Edited May 26, 2015 by Namutree

[BruceVC]

 

 

By choosing NOT to do what is needed to change their situation, yes they are.

Y'think? And what is needed to change one's situation from unsuccessful to successful? Have you met many people that freely, consciously made the choice to be poor, unhappy, unsuccessful or otherwise miserable? Is this a strength of character thing or it depends on acquired or innate insights? And are those inheritable or environmentally influenced traits?

 

Actually yes. I knew a lady when I lived in South Florida. She worked two jobs making near minimum wage and was so deep in credit card debt she had almost no hope of getting out. But she smoked 2 cartons of cigarettes a week and blew $200 a week in the Seminole Indian Casino. I told her to stop smoking and stop gambling and her financial situation would improve immediately. She wouldn't do either. Sometimes she won a few hundred bucks but spent thousands to do it.

 

If you ever find yourself in a hole the first thing you need to do is stop digging. When I lost my business and my home I was not buying booze or steak dinners or stuff like that. With limited resources I bought only what was needed to turn one day into the next. When I couldn't find work in Ft. Lauderdale I moved to West Palm Beach. When I couldn't afford a better place to live in town I moved out to the sticks.

 

There are no end to the possibilities available to folks in the US today. If your education is what is holding you back there is low cost and even no cost alternatives. Community colleges, trade schools, adult education... free in many cases. All you have to do is show up. Don't buy unnecessary things if you can't afford them. If you need work and there is none to be had nearby, then go where the work is. Start your own business. Do work on the side for cash. It's everyone's first responsibility to take care of themselves and their families.

 

To tell the truth I don't know who I resent more. The ones who get on public assistance and stay there forever because it is always easier to do nothing than do something or the folks who tell me it's people like me who are responsible they are in the predicament they are in and demand I pay their way from my hard work.

 

 

Good post GD, you make some excellent  points

 

 

I live in a country where there is real sense of entitlement from some people who were previously disenfranchised under Apartheid and now expect the government to give them everything for free....housing ...electricity, you name it.

 

Many of them don't work and this bill is expected to be carried by taxpayers like me, its a massive drain on our economy and very annoying. It basically boils down to people expecting things without having to work for them and I reject this idea vociferously 

[JadedWolf]

 

 

 

By choosing NOT to do what is needed to change their situation, yes they are.

Y'think? And what is needed to change one's situation from unsuccessful to successful? Have you met many people that freely, consciously made the choice to be poor, unhappy, unsuccessful or otherwise miserable? Is this a strength of character thing or it depends on acquired or innate insights? And are those inheritable or environmentally influenced traits?

 

Actually yes. I knew a lady when I lived in South Florida. She worked two jobs making near minimum wage and was so deep in credit card debt she had almost no hope of getting out. But she smoked 2 cartons of cigarettes a week and blew $200 a week in the Seminole Indian Casino. I told her to stop smoking and stop gambling and her financial situation would improve immediately. She wouldn't do either. Sometimes she won a few hundred bucks but spent thousands to do it.

 

If you ever find yourself in a hole the first thing you need to do is stop digging. When I lost my business and my home I was not buying booze or steak dinners or stuff like that. With limited resources I bought only what was needed to turn one day into the next. When I couldn't find work in Ft. Lauderdale I moved to West Palm Beach. When I couldn't afford a better place to live in town I moved out to the sticks.

 

There are no end to the possibilities available to folks in the US today. If your education is what is holding you back there is low cost and even no cost alternatives. Community colleges, trade schools, adult education... free in many cases. All you have to do is show up. Don't buy unnecessary things if you can't afford them. If you need work and there is none to be had nearby, then go where the work is. Start your own business. Do work on the side for cash. It's everyone's first responsibility to take care of themselves and their families.

 

To tell the truth I don't know who I resent more. The ones who get on public assistance and stay there forever because it is always easier to do nothing than do something or the folks who tell me it's people like me who are responsible they are in the predicament they are in and demand I pay their way from my hard work.

 

 

Good post GD, you make some excellent  points

 

 

I live in a country where there is real sense of entitlement from some people who were previously disenfranchised under Apartheid and now expect the government to give them everything for free....housing ...electricity, you name it.

 

Many of them don't work and this bill is expected to be carried by taxpayers like me, its a massive drain on our economy and very annoying. It basically boils down to people expecting things without having to work for them and I reject this idea vociferously 

 

 

I just have to say I find you saying these things so very, very ironic considering how you present yourself as constantly pointing out to others how privileged they are as white males... So very, very ironic.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

By choosing NOT to do what is needed to change their situation, yes they are.

Y'think? And what is needed to change one's situation from unsuccessful to successful? Have you met many people that freely, consciously made the choice to be poor, unhappy, unsuccessful or otherwise miserable? Is this a strength of character thing or it depends on acquired or innate insights? And are those inheritable or environmentally influenced traits?

 

Actually yes. I knew a lady when I lived in South Florida. She worked two jobs making near minimum wage and was so deep in credit card debt she had almost no hope of getting out. But she smoked 2 cartons of cigarettes a week and blew $200 a week in the Seminole Indian Casino. I told her to stop smoking and stop gambling and her financial situation would improve immediately. She wouldn't do either. Sometimes she won a few hundred bucks but spent thousands to do it.

 

If you ever find yourself in a hole the first thing you need to do is stop digging. When I lost my business and my home I was not buying booze or steak dinners or stuff like that. With limited resources I bought only what was needed to turn one day into the next. When I couldn't find work in Ft. Lauderdale I moved to West Palm Beach. When I couldn't afford a better place to live in town I moved out to the sticks.

 

There are no end to the possibilities available to folks in the US today. If your education is what is holding you back there is low cost and even no cost alternatives. Community colleges, trade schools, adult education... free in many cases. All you have to do is show up. Don't buy unnecessary things if you can't afford them. If you need work and there is none to be had nearby, then go where the work is. Start your own business. Do work on the side for cash. It's everyone's first responsibility to take care of themselves and their families.

 

To tell the truth I don't know who I resent more. The ones who get on public assistance and stay there forever because it is always easier to do nothing than do something or the folks who tell me it's people like me who are responsible they are in the predicament they are in and demand I pay their way from my hard work.

 

 

Good post GD, you make some excellent  points

 

 

I live in a country where there is real sense of entitlement from some people who were previously disenfranchised under Apartheid and now expect the government to give them everything for free....housing ...electricity, you name it.

 

Many of them don't work and this bill is expected to be carried by taxpayers like me, its a massive drain on our economy and very annoying. It basically boils down to people expecting things without having to work for them and I reject this idea vociferously 

 

 

I just have to say I find you saying these things so very, very ironic considering how you present yourself as constantly pointing out to others how privileged they are as white males... So very, very ironic.

 

 

How am I privileged again ? Because I work hard at my job and can afford to purchase a house and pay for services like electricity

 

Also I very seldom play  the "  white privileged male "  card, that's more other people who support SJ causes. We don't all agree on everything

[Hiro Protagonist]

YOU asked HOW Barothmuk was being affected by sexism and racism, the erosion of civil liberties and unsustainable exploitation of natural resources. Granted, I'm still not Barothmuk, but I provided exactly what you were asking for. How vague, society-wide problems were affecting day-to-day life. If your rebuttal is that since I don't protest every day, anti-protest legislation isn't really affecting my day-to-day life, well, yeah dude, you're right. And your solution to price increases in fish due to unsustainable practices is... not to eat fish. I believe congratulations are in order. Your logic is both bulletproof and completely irrelevant. Are you perchance a trial lawyer?

 

Don't mistake moping with reckoning that not everything is rainbows and sunshines and that things are getting worse rather than better. Your solution to societal problems amounts to "420 BLAZE IT ****", only with a hardcore achiever spin. Go go internet übermensch power fantasies.

 

Yes, I did ask how Barothmuk was being affected by sexism and racism. And yet forumites keep jumping in answering for him.

 

And you provided how vague society problems were affecting you. Like the price of Fish!

 

Oh how I wish I had problems like the price of fish to contend with. If that's one of the biggest problems you're facing in everyday life, then perhaps you need to seek a financial planner to get you through the rest of the day.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Hiro Protagonist

[Gorth]

Maturity comes with getting s*** done. And nothing stops you getting s*** done like sitting around on your arse saying nothing will ever work and we're all doomed.

Haven't read the entire thread yet, but thought this was worth quoting to show support for that particular message

 

Only real challenge is, when you get older it gets a bit harder every time you want to try new challenges in new places. So many countries to go, so many people to meet yet...

[Gorth]

 

Okay but how has the anti-terrorism laws in Oz effected you personally?

Should I only care about the curbing of civil liberties once they have directly effected me?

 

I still remember those government paid posters being everywhere, railroad stations, bus stops etc. encouraging people to watch each other carefully and report any unusual behavior. Yes, that was in Australia.

[Gorth]

 

But you are misunderstanding how this monitoring of data is used

 

The NSA doesn't care about your personal communication unless you are on there radar. I doubt they monitor all the data of every single citizen....that would be almost impossible. They are selective about who they target. So don't worry about them spying on you

"We won't use this data we've collected and stored on you without your consent to do anything wrong, we promise!"

 

One of my favourite quotes...

 

"The Central Intelligence Agency is committed to protecting your privacy and will collect no personal information about you unless you choose to provide that information to us. "

 

CIA's privacy notice

 

I know, that was the CIA, not the NSA. It just struck me as funny somehow. I'm easily amused sometimes.

[213374U]

Yes, I did ask how Barothmuk was being affected by sexism and racism. And yet forumites keep jumping in answering for him.

 

And you provided how vague society problems were affecting you. Like the price of Fish!

 

Oh how I wish I had problems like the price of fish to contend with. If that's one of the biggest problems you're facing in everyday life, then perhaps you need to seek a financial planner to get you through the rest of the day.

Ah, I see what you're trying to say. If it doesn't happen to Barothmuk, it's not happening, right? I'm sure it has nothing to do with someone giving you precise answers to the questions you were asking for. How are you enjoying your cognitive dissonance?

 

And forget about fish prices, that's just a footnote. Focus on everything else I said, like increased cancer risk, legal discrimination on a gender basis and fines and prison sentences for protesting illegally. Oh, but I haven't caught cancer yet (that I know of) and I'm obviously not posting from jail so everything's really OK and I'm just moping right?

[JadedWolf]

Right. Hum. To get back to the original topic of this thread:

 

I'm doing alright, all things considering. Yeah, I am making peanuts, but at least I have a job and a roof over my head. The weather is nice outside, I got some extra money in the bank this month due to the yearly holiday pay out, and best of all my girlfriend will be visiting in about two weeks time. We're in what you'd call a long distance relationship, and I actually only get to see her about two times a year. So I'm pretty much looking forward to that, as you can imagine. A lot of people give me a funny look when I tell them that. But hey, she is definitely worth it, so them's the breaks.

[BruceVC]

Right. Hum. To get back to the original topic of this thread:

 

I'm doing alright, all things considering. Yeah, I am making peanuts, but at least I have a job and a roof over my head. The weather is nice outside, I got some extra money in the bank this month due to the yearly holiday pay out, and best of all my girlfriend will be visiting in about two weeks time. We're in what you'd call a long distance relationship, and I actually only get to see her about two times a year. So I'm pretty much looking forward to that, as you can imagine. A lot of people give me a funny look when I tell them that. But hey, she is definitely worth it, so them's the breaks.

 

Its weird but there is something about your post I find inordinately depressing 

[JadedWolf]

 

Right. Hum. To get back to the original topic of this thread:

 

I'm doing alright, all things considering. Yeah, I am making peanuts, but at least I have a job and a roof over my head. The weather is nice outside, I got some extra money in the bank this month due to the yearly holiday pay out, and best of all my girlfriend will be visiting in about two weeks time. We're in what you'd call a long distance relationship, and I actually only get to see her about two times a year. So I'm pretty much looking forward to that, as you can imagine. A lot of people give me a funny look when I tell them that. But hey, she is definitely worth it, so them's the breaks.

 

Its weird but there is something about your post I find inordinately depressing 

 

 

You're going to have to explain that. You find it depressing that I'm doing alright?

[Amentep]

I read the title and was like "cool a positive thread".

Lasted only for the initial post.

Not sure if I just lost faith in humanity or had my faith restored by the Obsidianites that we can derail a thread faster than anyone else.

[BruceVC]

I read the title and was like "cool a positive thread".

 

Lasted only for the initial post.

 

Not sure if I just lost faith in humanity or had my faith restored by the Obsidianites that we can derail a thread faster than anyone else.

 

I agree....why do people derail threads

 

Bring out the pitchforks....lets tar and feather them !!!

Edited May 26, 2015 by BruceVC

[Amentep]

 

I read the title and was like "cool a positive thread".

 

Lasted only for the initial post.

 

Not sure if I just lost faith in humanity or had my faith restored by the Obsidianites that we can derail a thread faster than anyone else.

 

I agree....why do people derail threads

 

Bring out the pitchforks....lets tar and feather them !!!

 

 

Derailing threads is like an institution here.  Except when people request that threads be derailed and everyone ignores that call and studiously posts on-topic. 

[Gorth]

Not sure if I just lost faith in humanity or had my faith restored by the Obsidianites that we can derail a thread faster than anyone else.

It's a defense mechanism to cope with Oby threads. It becomes second nature over time.

[Rosbjerg]

What is this, invasion of the body snatchers? I don't trust you guys unless you're cynical and world weary..

[BruceVC]

 

 

I read the title and was like "cool a positive thread".

 

Lasted only for the initial post.

 

Not sure if I just lost faith in humanity or had my faith restored by the Obsidianites that we can derail a thread faster than anyone else.

 

I agree....why do people derail threads

 

Bring out the pitchforks....lets tar and feather them !!!

 

 

Derailing threads is like an institution here.  Except when people request that threads be derailed and everyone ignores that call and studiously posts on-topic. 

 

 

 

Very true 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

What is this, invasion of the body snatchers? I don't trust you guys unless you're cynical and world weary..

The only optimistic people are insane or frauds.

[Barothmuk]

Yes, I did ask how Barothmuk was being affected by sexism and racism.

I have already answered the question. i.e. my response was to Bruce's question "what problems still exist in the world?".

 

It's time to calm down man. You've got too much negativity.