Journalism and Bias in the Gaming Industry

[Volourn]

You asked us to name 3 games which I did. You never asked in the post I replied to how they did. Perhaps you should have stated it clearly.  Don't lawyer me and don't change goalposts after someone replies.

[kirottu]

 

Why feminist frequency is dead wrong about the witcher 3 by Erik kain of Forbes.

 

 

Art is not supposed to serve a political agenda. That’s what propaganda is for. Art does and should deal with real world issues, make us think, challenge us. What it shouldn’t do is simply confirm our biases. Fortunately, The Witcher 3 does no such thing.

Could this be? Could this finally be the moment when actual industry people start to call FF for their bull****?

 

 

The article itself linkes to this: https://medium.com/@adrianchm/feminist-frequency-and-the-witcher-3-6b126d3d6206

 

Dear lord, what happened to the graphics in Witcher 3 btw? That just looks appaling

 

Another good piece from Adrian. I really hope these are the first signs developers and journalists start to see what FF is all about, which is a human equivalent of a broken clock:

"It's always 12 o'clock. Everything is 12 o'clock."

Edited June 1, 2015 by kirottu

[Oerwinde]

 

 

Why feminist frequency is dead wrong about the witcher 3 by Erik kain of Forbes.

 

 

Art is not supposed to serve a political agenda. That’s what propaganda is for. Art does and should deal with real world issues, make us think, challenge us. What it shouldn’t do is simply confirm our biases. Fortunately, The Witcher 3 does no such thing.

Could this be? Could this finally be the moment when actual industry people start to call FF for their bull****?

 

 

The article itself linkes to this: https://medium.com/@adrianchm/feminist-frequency-and-the-witcher-3-6b126d3d6206

 

Dear lord, what happened to the graphics in Witcher 3 btw? That just looks appaling

 

Another good piece from Adrian. I really hope these are the first signs developers and journalists start to see what FF is all about, which is a human equivalent of a broken clock:

"It's always 12 o'clock. Everything is 12 o'clock."

 

 

Years of Conservative political ads makes me ask: Context? I need to hear what was said before and after before I make judgement on that statement.

[Barothmuk]

So then I have to ask " whats the reason behind this anti-Anita sentiment " ?

It's quite a bizarre phenomenon.

 

Even the most reasonable GGer (lol) seems to portray Sarkeesian as some kind of Machiavellian mastermind orchestrating the downfall of 'fun' and the rise of the matriarchy.

 

She wouldn't even be a thing if they didn't get so butthurt when she was running her little kickstarter.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you want to censor Sarkeesian because you think she is an evil psychotic sexist racist hateful liar nazi...?

 

Yeah, that sounds reasonable.  *golfclap* 

 

Thompson was pushing for actual legislation and used the court system to push his agenda.  Sarkeesian and McIntosh aren't anywhere his weight class.  What have they actually accomplished, other than getting you to froth at the mouth?

Personally the reason I hate Anita and her ilk is because the media is pushing their agenda as "the only proper agenda". And if one business jackass at EA or Acti or Ubi decides to take what the GameJurnoPro's folks say and force their studios to slightly conform, we done got problems bro.

 

 

I have no problem with criticizing her, but I just don't see any evidence that her agenda is succeeding (or is even all that focused.)  Jack Thompson was bringing lawsuits against these companies, she's putting together youtube videos and tweets.  She just doesn't do it for me as public enemy number 1.  

 

Publisher's don't care about her agenda, they care about the profits.  I listed a bunch of games from 2015 earlier, they are pretty much all violent and geared towards male gamers.  It doesn't bother me, that's the business.  That is what will sell.  That is all the publishers care about.

 

 

Hurlshot has summarized my view on this latest incident

 

I have asked a question several times and no one supporting GG on this thread was able to respond ( and yes there are people on this thread who do respond to me )

 

The question was simple one " name 3 games that have changed and impacted your gaming experience due to SJ pressure " 

 

And guess what? No evidence to support this apparent pernicious SJ influence

 

So for me its like you guys wait for comments from people like Anita, then you all get "outraged and offended " despite the fact its just her view and doesn't really translate to any meaningful changes by publishers

 

So then I have to ask " whats the reason behind this anti-Anita sentiment " ?

 

That should be the real question you guys need to ask yourselves

 

 

Stop being silly. Should we have to wait for the frog to be cooked before saying that boiling water will kill it? But thanks to Gamergate, it will not happen in the close future because the insidious ****s have been exposed and are running with their tails between their legs. You should be happy that the cancer is gone, why do you wish for it to grow?

 

Now, name three games that have been changed due to reactionary pressure.

 

 

None, I can't name 3 games which is exactly my point. Its false outrage that you guys are expressing because the objectives of Anita don't really translate to anything that directly effects your gaming experience 

 

 

I think its a bunch of factors. Its more the fear that she could change things that drives the hate. Gamers acknowledge that the online community is only a small part of the actual audience, but at the same time tend to subconciously view it as the entire audience. So when every game site holds her up as some sort of righteous crusader for all that is good and right, and if you disagree with her you're some lowly scumbag, she looks like she has a lot more influence than she does. Especially when people who have nothing to do with gaming or gamers grab on to her cause while the people trying to debunk her are looked at as awful subhumans and their points aren't even examined.

 

Film is similar yet different. There are artsy films, the equivalent of Gone Home or Depression Quest that get all the rave reviews and are looked at as important, but no one watches them because they don't appeal to most people. Movie fans don't freak out about it because most of the film media is all about the big blockbuster entertaining movies that people actually watch. If Entertainment Tonight started talking about how movies are garbage and need to grow up and the Lord of the Rings movies are horrible misogynist messes that propogate rape culture, and everything should be more like *insert critically acclaimed art film that everyone hates*, I'm pretty sure there would be a #MovieGate too.

 

 

This is a very good post and accurately discusses the " issue around the real  influence that people like Anita has " 

 

I'll want to add to this, I will do later. I am just busy at work

 

Okay so you raised a key point in this whole discussion and that is basically "  its the fear of perceived changes that concern people "  

 

So lets unpack this, GG has been active for nearly 10 months and yet we haven't seen meaningful changes in  games that Anita and others raise. So when do we move on and accept that what Anita says doesn't really mean games are actually changing in a way that impacts our gaming experience. And once again if you disagree with this important statement then please give 3 examples of what has changed in games  that has impacted your gaming experience. Because cosmetic changes like the removing of the limerick in PoE are not going to influence your gaming experience if you are honest

 

But  you have made some pertinent  points around the film industry and SJ criticism. You could very well be right and if we saw the " Anita of Films "  and her view being what film review websites supported then there would or could be a real backlash. In other words criticism of the medium, it could be film or games, could also influence how credible this is seen or how well it is supported

 

Yet we don't see this so what does this tell us? I could argue its because in the film industry people just don't take  SJ criticism to heart..they don't see it as harmful or unhelpful as gamers do. So then there is no need for the film industry to have a #Moviegate because its just not needed?

[BruceVC]

You asked us to name 3 games which I did. You never asked in the post I replied to how they did. Perhaps you should have stated it clearly.  Don't lawyer me and don't change goalposts after someone replies.

Volo I can help you with many things but not basic comprehension

 

I clearly asked for 3 examples of games and what has changed in these games that has impacted your gaming experience 

[Meshugger]

 

So then I have to ask " whats the reason behind this anti-Anita sentiment " ?

It's quite a bizarre phenomenon.

 

Even the most reasonable GGer (lol) seems to portray Sarkeesian as some kind of Machiavellian mastermind orchestrating the downfall of 'fun' and the rise of the matriarchy.

 

She wouldn't even be a thing if they didn't get so butthurt when she was running her little kickstarter.

 

 

Machiavellian implies cunning on such levels that you cannot help find admirable. No, more like the mainstream media swallowing professional victimhood. Hook, line and sinker.

[BruceVC]

 

 

So then I have to ask " whats the reason behind this anti-Anita sentiment " ?

It's quite a bizarre phenomenon.

 

Even the most reasonable GGer (lol) seems to portray Sarkeesian as some kind of Machiavellian mastermind orchestrating the downfall of 'fun' and the rise of the matriarchy.

 

She wouldn't even be a thing if they didn't get so butthurt when she was running her little kickstarter.

 

 

Machiavellian implies cunning on such levels that you cannot help find admirable. No, more like the mainstream media swallowing professional victimhood. Hook, line and sinker.

 

 

But you have to admit Meshugger you guys much a big deal around what she says, you guys post and then basically attack every single thing she says. And Twitter seems to be the medium of the outrage

 

Can you not at least acknowledge you may be reading too much into her influence ?

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

So then I have to ask " whats the reason behind this anti-Anita sentiment " ?

It's quite a bizarre phenomenon.

 

Even the most reasonable GGer (lol) seems to portray Sarkeesian as some kind of Machiavellian mastermind orchestrating the downfall of 'fun' and the rise of the matriarchy.

 

She wouldn't even be a thing if they didn't get so butthurt when she was running her little kickstarter.

 

 

Machiavellian implies cunning on such levels that you cannot help find admirable. No, more like the mainstream media swallowing professional victimhood. Hook, line and sinker.

 

 

But you have to admit Meshugger you guys much a big deal around what she says, you guys post and then basically attack every single thing she says. And Twitter seems to be the medium of the outrage

 

Can you not at least acknowledge you may be reading too much into her influence ?

 

 

Of course not. That would imply that you somehow know of what is too much influence in video games media, of which you don't. Nice try though.

[Blarghagh]

 

So then I have to ask " whats the reason behind this anti-Anita sentiment " ?

It's quite a bizarre phenomenon.

 

Even the most reasonable GGer (lol) seems to portray Sarkeesian as some kind of Machiavellian mastermind orchestrating the downfall of 'fun' and the rise of the matriarchy.

 

She wouldn't even be a thing if they didn't get so butthurt when she was running her little kickstarter.

 

 

That's not even remotely true. Most GGers think Sarkeesian is a hired public face for McIntosh drunken ramblings.

[Nonek]

It's heartening to see Mr Kain from a respected publication such as Forbes disputing McIntosh's lies, perhaps the rest of the media will finally start criticising and pointing out that Feminist Frequency is factually devoid of substance, cherry picks content, has yet to deliver her promised Kickstarter content, propogates a harmful narrative and is relying on a scientifically and statistically disproven point of view.

 

Personally I hope that the Witcher 3 and its success heralds a move for developers to make more challenging content, more internally consistent theatres of conflict free of politically correct pandering, such nuanced choice and consequence heavy narratives, and more importantly such well realised, strong and independent female characters as Ciri, Philippa or dozens of others.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Nonek

[Barothmuk]

I heard they completely butchered Phillipa's characterization by reducing her to a revenge mad moron.

 

EDIT: Hold on

 

and is relying on a scientifically and statistically disproven point of view.

What's this? Feminism has been "scientifically and statistically" disproven? Edited June 1, 2015 by Barothmuk

[Meshugger]

 

and is relying on a scientifically and statistically disproven point of view.

What's this? Feminism has been "scientifically and statistically" disproven?

 

 

What a bad bait. Hasn't these 10 months showed you that there are quite a lot of different feminists?

 

Unless you just want stir **** up, then go quite ahead.

[Barothmuk]

Hasn't these 10 months showed you that there are quite a lot of different feminists?

And surely one could point out which one is Anita's and how its been "scientifically and statistically" disproven?

 

Because that just sounds like you're repeating some kind of GG dogma rather than any kind of concrete facts. I don't really dwell in GG circles that much, have they too fallen into the cult-mindset?

[Nonek]

I heard they completely butchered Phillipa's characterization by reducing her to a revenge mad moron.

 

EDIT: Hold on

 

and is relying on a scientifically and statistically disproven point of view.

 

What's this? Feminism has been "scientifically and statistically" disproven?

 

 

On Philippa not really, she holds a grudge for Radovid enacting revenge upon her and mostly for outplaying her in the game of politics, her ego has been bruised. She reacts quite appropriately.

 

I've never mentioned anything about Feminism, I was stating that McIntosh's Feminist Frequencies main raison d'etre has been disproven, games do not and never have had a negative effect upon those playing them, numerous studies have proven this. Therefore whatever trope they are inventing this week, or worrying over has no effect on the audience, and will not cause sexism or anything else as virtual constructs are not real and have no impact, as everyone should know.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Nonek

[Meshugger]

 

Hasn't these 10 months showed you that there are quite a lot of different feminists?

And surely one could point out which one is Anita's and how its been "scientifically and statistically" disproven?

 

Because that just sounds like you're repeating some kind of GG dogma rather than any kind of concrete facts. I don't really dwell in GG circles that much, have they too fallen into the cult-mindset?

 

 

I will let mr. Nonek answer that himself.

 

As for dogmas and cults, it has been quite difficult when everybody is mostly anonymous on 8chan and there's little to no moderation. I've tried to tell them what they should think, but they are only telling me to **** off; either because i am a shill, a femi-nazi, statist, authoritarian, jew, goiym or corporate shill. It quite difficult to shame someone into submission when they have no identity, only arguments

 

Maybe Bruce can help me to make people think and argue as i like them to.

[Amentep]

 

 

So then I have to ask " whats the reason behind this anti-Anita sentiment " ?

It's quite a bizarre phenomenon.

 

Even the most reasonable GGer (lol) seems to portray Sarkeesian as some kind of Machiavellian mastermind orchestrating the downfall of 'fun' and the rise of the matriarchy.

 

She wouldn't even be a thing if they didn't get so butthurt when she was running her little kickstarter.

 

 

That's not even remotely true. Most GGers think Sarkeesian is a hired public face for McIntosh drunken ramblings.

 

 

I'm not sure it matters in the end whether it is Sarkeesian or McIntosh calling the shots; the truth is Feminist Frequency gets a lot of free press from the people who get butthurt every time they sneeze and react by spewing vitriol.

 

That's not to say that I disagree with the logical dissections of their poor arguments.  Its not even that I don't think that maybe some game makers could think twice before sending their game to a strip club (the modern-day equivalent of those damn mine-cart levels of yesteryear*) and similar nonsense that crop up in games.  But the first time I'd ever heard of Sarkeesian/FF was through people railing with an absolute rage about how evil she was.  I had to research Feminist Frequency, look at the kickstarter and find her messages that led to the vitriol for myself.  And that was my context for her for a long, long time not through journalists promoting her or her site, but by her detractors running around knee-jerking every time she or McIntosh said something.  And if it wasn't for those knee-jerk reactions, I'd have never heard of her.

 

 

*The obvious answer is to put a strip club in a mine, where you whiz by strippers in an out of control mine cart, to make it the ultimate gaming thing

Edited June 1, 2015 by Amentep

[Barothmuk]

On Philippa not really, she holds a grudge for Radovid enacting revenge upon her and mostly for outplaying her in the game of politics, her ego has been bruised. She reacts quite appropriately.

My computer's **** so I won't be able to judge for quite a while.

 

I was stating that McIntosh's Feminist Frequencies main raison d'etre has been disproven, games do not and never have had a negative effect upon those playing them.

That's quite an absolute statement.

 

Nevertheless, have you actually watched her series? All it does is point out sexist tropes in videogames and explain why they're sexist. Honestly, from what I recall, I didn't think she went far enough i.e. examining the how's and whys such tropes manifest and continue and the societal implications there of. Given the butthurt it's probably for the best she didn't.

[TrashMan]

 

I will let mr. Nonek answer that himself.

 

As for dogmas and cults, it has been quite difficult when everybody is mostly anonymous on 8chan and there's little to no moderation. I've tried to tell them what they should think, but they are only telling me to **** off; either because i am a shill, a femi-nazi, statist, authoritarian, jew, goiym or corporate shill. It quite difficult to shame someone into submission when they have no identity, only arguments

 

Maybe Bruce can help me to make people think and argue as i like them to.

 

 

Greeting, my gamergatehq brother

 

 

My heart is filled with opressive joy when meeting fellow compatriots outside of the Cathedral of Mysoginy.

Please remember to pray at the altar of Patriarchy every day.

[Nonek]

I was stating that McIntosh's Feminist Frequencies main raison d'etre has been disproven, games do not and never have had a negative effect upon those playing them.

 

That's quite an absolute statement.

 

Nevertheless, have you actually watched her series? All it does is point out sexist tropes in videogames and explain why they're sexist. Honestly, from what I recall, I didn't think she went far enough i.e. examining the how's and whys such tropes manifest and continue and the societal implications there of. Given the butthurt it's probably for the best she didn't.

 

 

Yes it is absolute.

 

I've watched a few, as many as I could stomach, as i've stated before they're poorly made, factually inaccurate, cherry pick content and arrive at conclusions so riven with logical inconsistencies as to render them laughable. Thus i'm in the same boat as Amentep, in that I can't for the life of me understand why it is so popular, or quoted.

 

Obviously I can understand the corrupt press championing this, as it propogates their crusade against gamers, but it was still shocking to see that any number of people could easily dismantle McIntosh's idiocy, and yet the media would not even try to, and held McIntosh's words to be sacrosanct and not worthy of any criticism. Indeed the ferocity with which they defended the pampered little morons tripe was astounding.

[TrashMan]

I was stating that McIntosh's Feminist Frequencies main raison d'etre has been disproven, games do not and never have had a negative effect upon those playing them.

O

That's quite an absolute statement.

 

Nevertheless, have you actually watched her series? All it does is point out sexist tropes in videogames and explain why they're sexist. Honestly, from what I recall, I didn't think she went far enough i.e. examining the how's and whys such tropes manifest and continue and the societal implications there of. Given the butthurt it's probably for the best she didn't.

 

 

Have you forgot that she claims her views as absolute truth, caliming scientific studies support her (she never provides evidence, and the one single time I recall her mentioning an actual study, that stupdy showed the exact opposite of what she said)

 

People don't like her because she's a con artist full fo s***.

 

[Meshugger]

 

 

I will let mr. Nonek answer that himself.

 

As for dogmas and cults, it has been quite difficult when everybody is mostly anonymous on 8chan and there's little to no moderation. I've tried to tell them what they should think, but they are only telling me to **** off; either because i am a shill, a femi-nazi, statist, authoritarian, jew, goiym or corporate shill. It quite difficult to shame someone into submission when they have no identity, only arguments

 

Maybe Bruce can help me to make people think and argue as i like them to.

 

 

Greeting, my gamergatehq brother

 

 

My heart is filled with opressive joy when meeting fellow compatriots outside of the Cathedral of Mysoginy.

Please remember to pray at the altar of Patriarchy every day.

 

 

Hail, fellow Leader.

 

I too revel in the sea of salty tears of everyone that is not the white man. I also drink myself drunk on the privilege that society provided to me, and keep women subdued as only sexual objects wherever that i find them in games. The holy **** is blessed everyday on the suffering of every minority, i assure you.

[Hurlshort]

It's pretty hard to keep track of anything here between Bruce trolling and everyone getting trolled by Bruce.  Is it possible to have a reasonable discussion about how something like Feminist Frequency has influenced the gaming industry?  

[Barothmuk]

Yes it is absolute.

Well in that case you would be wrong.

 

Everything affects everything. In this instance videogames are subject to the same ideological biases as all media and thus will reinforce certain ideological views, be it consciously or unconsciously (for an explicit example there is a reason why the American military funds billions into the COD or Battlefield series or why the U.S. government dictates how things be presented in superhero movies and whatnot)

 

This of course doesn’t mean videogames are the sole or primary cause of such views but neither are they free from them. Aside from perhaps the age of the average GGer I’m not sure why they get so butthurt about these criticisms, it’s hardly something uniquely targeted at videogames.

 

Thus i'm in the same boat as Amentep, in that I can't for the life of me understand why it is so popular, or quoted.

Is it? I’ve only actually seen people quote it maybe once or twice since the thing started.

 

It’s popularity, be it positive or negative, is not because of its quality (or lack thereof) but its symbolic value. Like I said before she only really became a thing b/c of the massive backlash against her.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

the American military funds billions into the COD or Battlefield series (...) the U.S. government dictates how things be presented in superhero movies and whatnot)

 

 

...Wait what?