Journalism and Bias in the Gaming Industry

[Calax]

 

...another thing you would never dare to say in the above hypothetical scenario.

No ****, that's because the circumstances of Muslims is in no way comparable to that of gamers.

 

Muslim's exist in a culture of islamophobia where they can be subject to state sanctioned harassment, detainment and murder. Articles demanding an "end to muslims" in such a culture would not be tongue-in-cheek or mere hyperbole but instead contribute to the actually existing violent status quo. You cannot simply replace one group with another and treat it as if the implications are exactly the same.

 

That said, who the **** cares that some random websites wrote some melodramatic articles on 'gamers'. I've been playing games all my life and quite frankly couldn't give a ****. Until we live in a world where employers are not hiring gamers, people are running around murdering gamers or the state itself has "declared war on gamers" you are just another tumblr generation kiddie desperate to be "oppressed".

 

The reason you should care about those articles is because it demonstrates that a system that was catered to you, that was built for your enjoyment, to help edify you and make decisions about your entertainment, has declared that you're no longer worth their time. It'd be more like Playboy showing up and saying that men who look at naked depictions of women are worthless human beings. After all, the world is still out there and filled with women, therefore they should be able to find and examine a woman of their own, not retreat into the pages of Playboy to see the unrealistically airbrushed vagina that that very publication released.

 

The reason that these articles are bad is because if there was no reaction to them, if there was no call for change, then you'd slowly see things like Witcher 3, Duke Nukem, and even LA Noir disappear because of your "tumblr generation kiddies" getting their way within the media and becoming the primary voice for the industry to listen to about wants. I don't want a "VideoGames Code Authority" that takes everything that might be released and makes it "PC". If we don't say **** and let this entire thing pass then we're looking at post "Seduction of the Innocent" comic book industry in Video Game format.

[Hurlshort]

Ineth, articles like that are written about Muslims all the time.  Journalists who write that garbage should be rightly criticized.  But why are we still talking about them 6 months later? (or 9, or whatever)

 

Is there any evidence that the game industry has actually changed because of these articles?  Was The Witcher 3 cancelled?  Is Ubisoft working on Assassin's Creed: Feelings?

 

Matching unreasonably angry people by being unreasonably angry is not healthy.     

[Meshugger]

 

...another thing you would never dare to say in the above hypothetical scenario.

No ****, that's because the circumstances of Muslims is in no way comparable to that of gamers.

 

Muslim's exist in a culture of islamophobia where they can be subject to state sanctioned harassment, detainment and murder. Articles demanding an "end to muslims" in such a culture would not be tongue-in-cheek or mere hyperbole but instead contribute to the actually existing violent status quo. You cannot simply replace one group with another and treat it as if the implications are exactly the same.

 

That said, who the **** cares that some random websites wrote some melodramatic articles on 'gamers'. I've been playing games all my life and quite frankly couldn't give a ****. Until we live in a world where employers are not hiring gamers, people are running around murdering gamers or the state itself has "declared war on gamers" you are just another tumblr generation kiddie desperate to be "oppressed".

 

 

If we cannot change games journalism, then we might as well give up on everything.

[Namutree]

 

 

...another thing you would never dare to say in the above hypothetical scenario.

No ****, that's because the circumstances of Muslims is in no way comparable to that of gamers.

 

Muslim's exist in a culture of islamophobia where they can be subject to state sanctioned harassment, detainment and murder. Articles demanding an "end to muslims" in such a culture would not be tongue-in-cheek or mere hyperbole but instead contribute to the actually existing violent status quo. You cannot simply replace one group with another and treat it as if the implications are exactly the same.

 

That said, who the **** cares that some random websites wrote some melodramatic articles on 'gamers'. I've been playing games all my life and quite frankly couldn't give a ****. Until we live in a world where employers are not hiring gamers, people are running around murdering gamers or the state itself has "declared war on gamers" you are just another tumblr generation kiddie desperate to be "oppressed".

 

 

If we cannot change games journalism, then we might as well give up on everything.

 

Explain.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

...another thing you would never dare to say in the above hypothetical scenario.

No ****, that's because the circumstances of Muslims is in no way comparable to that of gamers.

 

Muslim's exist in a culture of islamophobia where they can be subject to state sanctioned harassment, detainment and murder. Articles demanding an "end to muslims" in such a culture would not be tongue-in-cheek or mere hyperbole but instead contribute to the actually existing violent status quo. You cannot simply replace one group with another and treat it as if the implications are exactly the same.

 

That said, who the **** cares that some random websites wrote some melodramatic articles on 'gamers'. I've been playing games all my life and quite frankly couldn't give a ****. Until we live in a world where employers are not hiring gamers, people are running around murdering gamers or the state itself has "declared war on gamers" you are just another tumblr generation kiddie desperate to be "oppressed".

 

 

If we cannot change games journalism, then we might as well give up on everything.

 

Explain.

 

 

Compared to all other injustices that exists in the world, ethics in games journalism is quite a small thing in the grander schemes of things. But if this fails, how can people possibly be able to overcome anything bigger?

 

But GamerGate has already won, so i am optimistic about the future.

[Hurlshort]

Mission accomplished, time to move on to the next thing!

 

I recommend the Patriot Act.  

[Calax]

Mission accomplished, time to move on to the next thing!

 

I recommend the Patriot Act.  

Talking to Rand Paul about dat.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

...another thing you would never dare to say in the above hypothetical scenario.

No ****, that's because the circumstances of Muslims is in no way comparable to that of gamers.

 

Muslim's exist in a culture of islamophobia where they can be subject to state sanctioned harassment, detainment and murder. Articles demanding an "end to muslims" in such a culture would not be tongue-in-cheek or mere hyperbole but instead contribute to the actually existing violent status quo. You cannot simply replace one group with another and treat it as if the implications are exactly the same.

 

That said, who the **** cares that some random websites wrote some melodramatic articles on 'gamers'. I've been playing games all my life and quite frankly couldn't give a ****. Until we live in a world where employers are not hiring gamers, people are running around murdering gamers or the state itself has "declared war on gamers" you are just another tumblr generation kiddie desperate to be "oppressed".

 

 

If we cannot change games journalism, then we might as well give up on everything.

 

Explain.

 

 

Compared to all other injustices that exists in the world, ethics in games journalism is quite a small thing in the grander schemes of things. But if this fails, how can people possibly be able to overcome anything bigger?

 

But GamerGate has already won, so i am optimistic about the future.

 

 

Just remind me again, what has GG achieved in the last 9 months? And I'm not being condescending, I want to see how you guys see the success of the movement 

[ravenshrike]

Ineth, articles like that are written about Muslims all the time.  Journalists who write that garbage should be rightly criticized.  But why are we still talking about them 6 months later? (or 9, or whatever)

 

Is there any evidence that the game industry has actually changed because of these articles?  Was The Witcher 3 cancelled?  Is Ubisoft working on Assassin's Creed: Feelings?

 

Matching unreasonably angry people by being unreasonably angry is not healthy.     

No, sporadic articles are written about that all the time, and rarely so explicitly on a major news outlet. Not to mention his analogy was flawed as a proper analogy would have had half of the MSM all pushing those articles at the same time within a 24 hour period.

[Volourn]

"Just remind me again, what has GG achieved in the last 9 months? And I'm not being condescending, I want to see how you guys see the success of the movement"

 

I'm alive despite the fact SJWs and feminists proclaimed me dead/want to kill me.  Having a bunch of psychopathic racist sexist nazis want you dead but unable to actually kill you makes me smile.

 

*this gamer goes back to playing games with beautiful b00bies*

[Namutree]

"Just remind me again, what has GG achieved in the last 9 months? And I'm not being condescending, I want to see how you guys see the success of the movement"

 

I'm alive despite the fact SJWs and feminists proclaimed me dead/want to kill me.  Having a bunch of psychopathic racist sexist nazis want you dead but unable to actually kill you makes me smile.

 

*this gamer goes back to playing games with beautiful b00bies*

I don't think GG is responsible for that. I'm pretty sure you'd be alive even without GG Volourn.

[Volourn]

Not if the SJWs had their way. I'm a part of GG (kinda since I don't do twitter lol outside of like 5 posts  years ago ) so the fact I'm alive is a GG accomplishment. The most important one as far as I'm concerned at that.

[BruceVC]

"Just remind me again, what has GG achieved in the last 9 months? And I'm not being condescending, I want to see how you guys see the success of the movement"

 

I'm alive despite the fact SJWs and feminists proclaimed me dead/want to kill me.  Having a bunch of psychopathic racist sexist nazis want you dead but unable to actually kill you makes me smile.

 

*this gamer goes back to playing games with beautiful b00bies*

 

Wow okay, you set your bar low as far as quantifiable achievements of GG is concerned? Surly GG has achieved more than just protecting you from SJW...come on you can do better than that Volo ?

[Malcador]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...another thing you would never dare to say in the above hypothetical scenario.

No ****, that's because the circumstances of Muslims is in no way comparable to that of gamers.

 

Muslim's exist in a culture of islamophobia where they can be subject to state sanctioned harassment, detainment and murder. Articles demanding an "end to muslims" in such a culture would not be tongue-in-cheek or mere hyperbole but instead contribute to the actually existing violent status quo. You cannot simply replace one group with another and treat it as if the implications are exactly the same.

 

That said, who the **** cares that some random websites wrote some melodramatic articles on 'gamers'. I've been playing games all my life and quite frankly couldn't give a ****. Until we live in a world where employers are not hiring gamers, people are running around murdering gamers or the state itself has "declared war on gamers" you are just another tumblr generation kiddie desperate to be "oppressed".

If we cannot change games journalism, then we might as well give up on everything.

Explain.

Compared to all other injustices that exists in the world, ethics in games journalism is quite a small thing in the grander schemes of things. But if this fails, how can people possibly be able to overcome anything bigger?

 

But GamerGate has already won, so i am optimistic about the future.

Just remind me again, what has GG achieved in the last 9 months? And I'm not being condescending, I want to see how you guys see the success of the movement

Why do you ask ? Is there a deadline for it to achieve something? And if it inevitably falls short of the bar in your head, what is your suggestion?

 

It has at least made talk of social justice issues, heh, in gaming a bit more in the forefront. Perhaps.

[Oerwinde]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...another thing you would never dare to say in the above hypothetical scenario.

No ****, that's because the circumstances of Muslims is in no way comparable to that of gamers.

 

Muslim's exist in a culture of islamophobia where they can be subject to state sanctioned harassment, detainment and murder. Articles demanding an "end to muslims" in such a culture would not be tongue-in-cheek or mere hyperbole but instead contribute to the actually existing violent status quo. You cannot simply replace one group with another and treat it as if the implications are exactly the same.

 

That said, who the **** cares that some random websites wrote some melodramatic articles on 'gamers'. I've been playing games all my life and quite frankly couldn't give a ****. Until we live in a world where employers are not hiring gamers, people are running around murdering gamers or the state itself has "declared war on gamers" you are just another tumblr generation kiddie desperate to be "oppressed".

If we cannot change games journalism, then we might as well give up on everything.

Explain.

Compared to all other injustices that exists in the world, ethics in games journalism is quite a small thing in the grander schemes of things. But if this fails, how can people possibly be able to overcome anything bigger?

 

But GamerGate has already won, so i am optimistic about the future.

Just remind me again, what has GG achieved in the last 9 months? And I'm not being condescending, I want to see how you guys see the success of the movement

BasedGamer got funded.

Several sites either adopted an ethics policy or ammended theirs.

The FTC adopted rules regarding undeclared affiliate links and admitted GG was the reason.

Some female devs got greenlit or funded as a result of GG efforts.

The Escapist cleaned house of their SJW staff to focus less on social justice issues and more on games and such.

TechRaptor and NicheGamer got huge support boosts establishing them as alternatives to the point that they were able to get press passes to events they were previously unable to.

 

Thats off the top of my head.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

 

...another thing you would never dare to say in the above hypothetical scenario.

No ****, that's because the circumstances of Muslims is in no way comparable to that of gamers.

 

Muslim's exist in a culture of islamophobia where they can be subject to state sanctioned harassment, detainment and murder. Articles demanding an "end to muslims" in such a culture would not be tongue-in-cheek or mere hyperbole but instead contribute to the actually existing violent status quo. You cannot simply replace one group with another and treat it as if the implications are exactly the same.

 

That said, who the **** cares that some random websites wrote some melodramatic articles on 'gamers'. I've been playing games all my life and quite frankly couldn't give a ****. Until we live in a world where employers are not hiring gamers, people are running around murdering gamers or the state itself has "declared war on gamers" you are just another tumblr generation kiddie desperate to be "oppressed".

If we cannot change games journalism, then we might as well give up on everything.

Explain.

Compared to all other injustices that exists in the world, ethics in games journalism is quite a small thing in the grander schemes of things. But if this fails, how can people possibly be able to overcome anything bigger?

 

But GamerGate has already won, so i am optimistic about the future.

Just remind me again, what has GG achieved in the last 9 months? And I'm not being condescending, I want to see how you guys see the success of the movement

Why do you ask ? Is there a deadline for it to achieve something? And if it inevitably falls short of the bar in your head, what is your suggestion?

 

It has at least made talk of social justice issues, heh, in gaming a bit more in the forefront. Perhaps.

 

 

No thats not why I am asking, don't assume the worst when people ask questions 

 

Meshugger said GG  has " won" ...whether he is joking or not I am still interested in what impact GG has made over the last 8 months to the people who support it

 

Its not an unusual question

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

 

...another thing you would never dare to say in the above hypothetical scenario.

No ****, that's because the circumstances of Muslims is in no way comparable to that of gamers.

 

Muslim's exist in a culture of islamophobia where they can be subject to state sanctioned harassment, detainment and murder. Articles demanding an "end to muslims" in such a culture would not be tongue-in-cheek or mere hyperbole but instead contribute to the actually existing violent status quo. You cannot simply replace one group with another and treat it as if the implications are exactly the same.

 

That said, who the **** cares that some random websites wrote some melodramatic articles on 'gamers'. I've been playing games all my life and quite frankly couldn't give a ****. Until we live in a world where employers are not hiring gamers, people are running around murdering gamers or the state itself has "declared war on gamers" you are just another tumblr generation kiddie desperate to be "oppressed".

If we cannot change games journalism, then we might as well give up on everything.

Explain.

Compared to all other injustices that exists in the world, ethics in games journalism is quite a small thing in the grander schemes of things. But if this fails, how can people possibly be able to overcome anything bigger?

 

But GamerGate has already won, so i am optimistic about the future.

Just remind me again, what has GG achieved in the last 9 months? And I'm not being condescending, I want to see how you guys see the success of the movement

BasedGamer got funded.

Several sites either adopted an ethics policy or ammended theirs.

The FTC adopted rules regarding undeclared affiliate links and admitted GG was the reason.

Some female devs got greenlit or funded as a result of GG efforts.

The Escapist cleaned house of their SJW staff to focus less on social justice issues and more on games and such.

TechRaptor and NicheGamer got huge support boosts establishing them as alternatives to the point that they were able to get press passes to events they were previously unable to.

 

Thats off the top of my head.

 

 

Thank you for responding, why do some people question my motives when I am interested in certain topics that I don't know a lot about ?

 

Is it because of my view on GG I wonder that they think I have an ulterior motive?

[Longknife]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...another thing you would never dare to say in the above hypothetical scenario.

No ****, that's because the circumstances of Muslims is in no way comparable to that of gamers.

 

Muslim's exist in a culture of islamophobia where they can be subject to state sanctioned harassment, detainment and murder. Articles demanding an "end to muslims" in such a culture would not be tongue-in-cheek or mere hyperbole but instead contribute to the actually existing violent status quo. You cannot simply replace one group with another and treat it as if the implications are exactly the same.

 

That said, who the **** cares that some random websites wrote some melodramatic articles on 'gamers'. I've been playing games all my life and quite frankly couldn't give a ****. Until we live in a world where employers are not hiring gamers, people are running around murdering gamers or the state itself has "declared war on gamers" you are just another tumblr generation kiddie desperate to be "oppressed".

If we cannot change games journalism, then we might as well give up on everything.

Explain.

Compared to all other injustices that exists in the world, ethics in games journalism is quite a small thing in the grander schemes of things. But if this fails, how can people possibly be able to overcome anything bigger?

 

But GamerGate has already won, so i am optimistic about the future.

Just remind me again, what has GG achieved in the last 9 months? And I'm not being condescending, I want to see how you guys see the success of the movement

BasedGamer got funded.

Several sites either adopted an ethics policy or ammended theirs.

The FTC adopted rules regarding undeclared affiliate links and admitted GG was the reason.

Some female devs got greenlit or funded as a result of GG efforts.

The Escapist cleaned house of their SJW staff to focus less on social justice issues and more on games and such.

TechRaptor and NicheGamer got huge support boosts establishing them as alternatives to the point that they were able to get press passes to events they were previously unable to.

 

Thats off the top of my head.

 

 

Thank you for responding, why do some people question my motives when I am interested in certain topics that I don't know a lot about ?

 

Is it because of my view on GG I wonder that they think I have an ulterior motive?

 

 

It may have something to do with this probably being the 47th time you've asked a question like the one above, and that so much time is wasted on (re-)clarifying things that the discussion repeatedly gets distracted away from anything that's difficult for you to discuss.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...another thing you would never dare to say in the above hypothetical scenario.

No ****, that's because the circumstances of Muslims is in no way comparable to that of gamers.

 

Muslim's exist in a culture of islamophobia where they can be subject to state sanctioned harassment, detainment and murder. Articles demanding an "end to muslims" in such a culture would not be tongue-in-cheek or mere hyperbole but instead contribute to the actually existing violent status quo. You cannot simply replace one group with another and treat it as if the implications are exactly the same.

 

That said, who the **** cares that some random websites wrote some melodramatic articles on 'gamers'. I've been playing games all my life and quite frankly couldn't give a ****. Until we live in a world where employers are not hiring gamers, people are running around murdering gamers or the state itself has "declared war on gamers" you are just another tumblr generation kiddie desperate to be "oppressed".

If we cannot change games journalism, then we might as well give up on everything.

Explain.

Compared to all other injustices that exists in the world, ethics in games journalism is quite a small thing in the grander schemes of things. But if this fails, how can people possibly be able to overcome anything bigger?

 

But GamerGate has already won, so i am optimistic about the future.

Just remind me again, what has GG achieved in the last 9 months? And I'm not being condescending, I want to see how you guys see the success of the movement

BasedGamer got funded.

Several sites either adopted an ethics policy or ammended theirs.

The FTC adopted rules regarding undeclared affiliate links and admitted GG was the reason.

Some female devs got greenlit or funded as a result of GG efforts.

The Escapist cleaned house of their SJW staff to focus less on social justice issues and more on games and such.

TechRaptor and NicheGamer got huge support boosts establishing them as alternatives to the point that they were able to get press passes to events they were previously unable to.

 

Thats off the top of my head.

 

 

Thank you for responding, why do some people question my motives when I am interested in certain topics that I don't know a lot about ?

 

Is it because of my view on GG I wonder that they think I have an ulterior motive?

 

 

It may have something to do with this probably being the 47th time you've asked a question like the one above, and that so much time is wasted on (re-)clarifying things that the discussion repeatedly gets distracted away from anything that's difficult for you to discuss.

 

 

Nah I don't think thats the reason considering the fact I have only asked the question " what has GG achieved " once before ?

[Hurlshort]

I agree that the movement for more accountability in journalism has seen progress, and I think that is a great thing.  But when are we at the point of diminishing returns?  It seems like the decent sites have clarified themselves, the bad sites have been exposed, and now we are at the point where it is just angry people making angry faces at one another with not much else left to gain.

[BruceVC]

I agree that the movement for more accountability in journalism has seen progress, and I think that is a great thing.  But when are we at the point of diminishing returns?  It seems like the decent sites have clarified themselves, the bad sites have been exposed, and now we are at the point where it is just angry people making angry faces at one another with not much else left to gain.

 

Yes I agree. And you mustn't underestimate the dislike and resentment that many people who support GG have for people like Anita 

 

And its just as extreme from some people on the anti-GG side. You can see how some people on anti-GG are now only interested in a game that addresses SJ points, everything else is ignored which is sad and seems to miss the main point of a game...to have fun. Like that review of the Witcher 3 from Polygon. 

 

So the battle lines are drawn and intransigence is the order of the day for some people. There isn't any real discussion outside of forums like this, its more about criticism and outrage.

 

My advice is be like me, I don't get too involved and can at least have a debate with both sides  

[Blarghagh]

I agree that the movement for more accountability in journalism has seen progress, and I think that is a great thing.  But when are we at the point of diminishing returns?  It seems like the decent sites have clarified themselves, the bad sites have been exposed, and now we are at the point where it is just angry people making angry faces at one another with not much else left to gain.

 

+1. I'm comfortable with the amount of change we've had and I don't think GamerGate is going to achieve much more. The only thing I'm hoping for is that it keeps the push for basedgamer.com going so we're entirely rid of metacritic.

 

EDIT: Haha, this article is so overblown it cracked me up, and it's somewhat relevant here: http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/12/the-media-is-losing-the-waronnerds/

[Nonek]

I disagree, various sites have been exposed and forced to implement ethical policies, but these are self regulated and as we see regularly the false narratives, the corruption and the anti consumer bias is still present. There is in the end no accountability, no punishments and no ethical standards to adhere to except what the publications make themselves and can easily weasel around and manipulate to their own advantage. As long as supposedly customer focused sites are mocking the victims of bomb threats, and abusive morons are laughing at their pathetic witticisms, then there is still a problem to combat.

 

Of course the good work against corruption and unethical behaviour is worth celebrating, and those whom have championed the corrupt and immoral have been proven wrong repeatedly in their lies and demonisation. Some are even now trying to weasel their way out of their previous standing, and pretend to be moderate and neutral, when they have been the champions of the liars and immoral. Obviously these are hypocrites, and idiots whom underestimate peoples memories, the kind of people whom at one time stated that a multi billion dollar industry does not need ethical standards like any other form of journalism. Ian Mile Cheung the Neo Nazi has even been trying to appear rational lately, as if his past stance will be forgotten. Amusing how these people have so little bottom that they will desert their cause as soon as they sense a change in the weather, I expected nothing else really though.

[BruceVC]

I disagree, various sites have been exposed and forced to implement ethical policies, but these are self regulated and as we see regularly the false narratives, the corruption and the anti consumer bias is still present. There is in the end no accountability, no punishments and no ethical standards to adhere to except what the publications make themselves and can easily weasel around and manipulate to their own advantage. As long as supposedly customer focused sites are mocking the victims of bomb threats, and abusive morons are laughing at their pathetic witticisms, then there is still a problem to combat.

 

Of course the good work against corruption and unethical behaviour is worth celebrating, and those whom have championed the corrupt and immoral have been proven wrong repeatedly in their lies and demonisation. Some are even now trying to weasel their way out of their previous standing, and pretend to be moderate and neutral, when they have been the champions of the liars and immoral. Obviously these are hypocrites, and idiots whom underestimate peoples memories, the kind of people whom at one time stated that a multi billion dollar industry does not need ethical standards like any other form of journalism. Ian Mile Cheung the Neo Nazi has even been trying to appear rational lately, as if his past stance will be forgotten. Amusing how these people have so little bottom that they will desert their cause as soon as they sense a change in the weather, I expected nothing else really though.

 

No don't misunderstand me, I am still opposed to GG but I don't agree with everything from anti-GG

 

Also I don't feel the need to dispute or challenge every GG link you guys provide. So I'm more of a interested bystander in this whole event ...but I haven't changed or compromised my SJ loyalties which has very little to do with anti-GG anyway 

 

"various sites have been exposed and forced to implement ethical policies, but these are self regulated and as we see regularly the false narratives, the corruption and the anti consumer bias is still present. There is in the end no accountability, no punishments and no ethical standards to adhere to except what the publications make themselves and can easily weasel around and manipulate to their own advantage. As long as supposedly customer focused sites are mocking the victims of bomb threats, and abusive morons are laughing at their pathetic witticisms, then there is still a problem to combat. " 

 

So you consider that a victory Nonek....I must say you set yourself very low standards. It reads to me more of a " accepting defeat in a mature and constructive way " speech 

[Nonek]

Yes I know you still pretend to support social justice Bruce.

 

Gamergates victories are simply victories, they are as I stated worth celebrating as is any moral cause, and personally I wish that there were far more consumer revolts such as this with people fighting against corruption and lies. The world would be a far better place, especially if this spread to journalism as a whole and maybe even politics.

 

Demonisation of the innocent, endemic corruption, the lies of a false narrative parroted by those in power, and their barely literate followers, and most importantly accountability to the common people, these are all things worth fighting for in my opinion. Worthy of celebration as well.

 

You are free to disagree however Bruce, and post however many smileys seem to be amusing and witty to you.