Attribute per class importance

[SparocheeDoom]

Unlike older AD&D games, such as BG1/2, the information regarding classes and attributes in the game does not list which attribute is important for which class, except for that one time when you create your character and important attributes have gold or silver stars next to them. I remember in BG2 and IWD, it would say which attributes are best for mages, thieves, etc., but it is not like that in this game. I really wish they'd stick to BG-style skills...

 

Could someone list the most important attributes for each class, please? First 2 attributes = most important (gold stars), and 3rd attribute = less important (silver star). That what it was like for a Wizard - 2 gold stars - one for Might, another for Intellect, and 1 silver star for Dexterity. Is it like that for each class? Regardless, I would like to know the most important attributes for each class.

 

Here are some thoughts:

Priest (Durance) deals with mind-spells, so I assume Will-buffing items are important, correct?

Thieves/Rogue's obviously need Dexterity

Fighters obviously need Might, Constitution, and Dexterity

 

It would ALSO be of great help if someone could list the most important/most beneficial skills, such as Athletics, Lore, Mechanics, Survival, etc for each class???

[SilchasRuin]

Honestly, the recommended stats in the character creation are pretty inaccurate. As far as it goes, there are 2 damage attributes (dex and might), 2 defense attributes (perception and resolve), 1 mediocre defense attribute (Constitution) and 1 utility/offense attribute (intellect).

 

Damage attributes are good for any character you want to deal damage, might is more important for casters (Wizard/Druid/Priest), dexterity is more important for weapon users (Rogue, Barbarian, Ranger), but both are very useful for both types. Might's healing bonus is okay, and is sometimes more valuable than constitution for Tanky characters with lots of healing.

 

Defense attributes are mostly useful for tanks, but resolve is overall the more useful of the two to have on damage dealers.

 

Constitution can basically be ignored for the most part, it's okay on Tanks and classes with naturally high endurance/health (Barbarian/Fighter/Monk). You probably won't want to drop it too low on an offtank who isn't a moon godlike, but strictly speaking this is the least valuable stat.

 

Intellect is useful for any class that makes use of AoE (Wizard, Barbarian, Priest, Cipher, Druid) but also for any class that wants to buff or debuff, either themselves or their allies, so Intellect can be valuable for almost any class, but is most important for classes that need AoE. it's acceptable to have low intellect on classes like Rogue/Fighter/Ranger as they lack any AoE and their need for longer debuffs or buffs are lower than other classes.

Edited May 2, 2015 by SilchasRuin

[Atchod]

Might is most important to any character that does damage or healing ,

Intellect is important to any character that does AOE or has long duration spells ( this includes stuff like barbarians(aoe) and rogues(duration))

Constitution SUX in general

Dex is Good when paired with ton of MIGHT and usually these both are maxed together on damage dealer characters ( both physical and magical)

Resolve and Perception are primary tanking stats , also Resolve is important for characters that need concentration ( more concentration less interrupts on you )

 

What you Max depends on what your character is going to do more than on its class because one class can have different roles in a party and require different attributes. 

Edited May 2, 2015 by Atchod

[Manty5]

Here are some thoughts:

Priest (Durance) deals with mind-spells, so I assume Will-buffing items are important, correct?

Thieves/Rogue's obviously need Dexterity

Fighters obviously need Might, Constitution, and Dexterity

 

It would ALSO be of great help if someone could list the most important/most beneficial skills, such as Athletics, Lore, Mechanics, Survival, etc for each class???

 

Will, Reflex, Deflection, and Fortitude are all defensive in nature only.  So priests need int for making their buffs and debuffs last longer and might for magnitude on heals and attack spells.  ACCURACY is what a priest needs to land his spells with hits and crits instead of grazes and misses.  One of the strongest ways to boost (effective) accuracy is to debuff the specific defense that you're about to roll against.

 

For skills:

* every char should have at least 2 Athletics and the frontliners should have more.  Because fatigue penalties really suck.

* One character MUST have high mechanics, but all the other characters can skip it. 

* Your background choices in character creation can be very important.  It's easier to reach high levels of a skill with the right background. 

* Having a party-wide 2-4 stealth lets you bypass encounters you don't want to fight and pre-position yourself advantageously.

* Lore and Survival:  Lore has a lot of dialog options in the game associated with it, Survival has less.   Since both affect consumables, and you only have 4 slots for them, I'd recommend choosing 3 of your chars to have high lore for the scrolls, and 3 of your chars to have high survival for the potions.

 

Advanced tips:

* Priests get no bonus to the mechanic skill, but they have some of the best spell-traps.  If you build one instead of using durance, consider choosing a mechanics background and make him your trapper, because the skill will also boost his spell traps.

* Give your Mechanics char more stealth than the party average.  Then he can get closer to the enemy when pre-placing item-based traps, and he can skulk around friendly homes and palaces, robbing them blind without getting caught.

* Consider giving all characters 2 lore.  That costs 3 skill points maximum and grants access to level 1 scrolls.  Level 1 scrolls are not weak.

* I personally feel that scrolls are better for single-target characters and frontliners, while survival is better for casters and barbs.  Why?  Accuracy potions affect the fight much more when you're making several attacks at once.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Manty5

[MoxyWoo]

I just want to add that I usually try to get some Resolve on any character due to how annoying interrupts can be.

 

Get hit by an AoE and then jerk to a stop because enemies?  Annoying.

 

Trying to cast something and stop?  Annoying.

 

Trying to sound witty in dialogue and can't?  Annoying.

[Blovski]

Ciphers and Druids both need a lot of Might. Wizards need Int. Rogues and Rangers both want Might and Dex. Fighters really want Perception and Resolve imo. Everyone can use Dex, just to different extents. It's rare that Con is that important.

[Crucis]

 

Here are some thoughts:

Priest (Durance) deals with mind-spells, so I assume Will-buffing items are important, correct?

Thieves/Rogue's obviously need Dexterity

Fighters obviously need Might, Constitution, and Dexterity

 

It would ALSO be of great help if someone could list the most important/most beneficial skills, such as Athletics, Lore, Mechanics, Survival, etc for each class???

 

Will, Reflex, Deflection, and Fortitude are all defensive in nature only.  So priests need int for making their buffs and debuffs last longer and might for magnitude on heals and attack spells.  ACCURACY is what a priest needs to land his spells with hits and crits instead of grazes and misses.  One of the strongest ways to boost (effective) accuracy is to debuff the specific defense that you're about to roll against.

 

For skills:

* every char should have at least 2 Athletics and the frontliners should have more.  Because fatigue penalties really suck.

* One character MUST have high mechanics, but all the other characters can skip it. 

* Your background choices in character creation can be very important.  It's easier to reach high levels of a skill with the right background. 

* Having a party-wide 2-4 stealth lets you bypass encounters you don't want to fight and pre-position yourself advantageously.

* Lore and Survival:  Lore has a lot of dialog options in the game associated with it, Survival has less.   Since both affect consumables, and you only have 4 slots for them, I'd recommend choosing 3 of your chars to have high lore for the scrolls, and 3 of your chars to have high survival for the potions.

 

Advanced tips:

* Priests get no bonus to the mechanic skill, but they have some of the best spell-traps.  If you build one instead of using durance, consider choosing a mechanics background and make him your trapper, because the skill will also boost his spell traps.

* Give your Mechanics char more stealth than the party average.  Then he can get closer to the enemy when pre-placing item-based traps, and he can skulk around friendly homes and palaces, robbing them blind without getting caught.

* Consider giving all characters 2 lore.  That costs 3 skill points maximum and grants access to level 1 scrolls.  Level 1 scrolls are not weak.

* I personally feel that scrolls are better for single-target characters and frontliners, while survival is better for casters and barbs.  Why?  Accuracy potions affect the fight much more when you're making several attacks at once.

 

 

Some comments. 

 

1. I believe that 3, rather than 2, is the minimum that all characters should have, since that reduces combat fatigue by 90%.

 

2. 100% agree on Stealth.  There's no point in trying to move your entire party stealthfully close to the enemy if one of your party has no stealth and stands out like a searchlight.

 

3. Agree that 2 Lore is very useful for every member of a party.  For example, casting the Fan of Fire (Flames?) spell can be difficult from the back line with the rest of your party in the way, but a front liner is perfect for using that spell (from a scroll).

 

4.  While scrolls may seem better suited to someone other than a mage, one suggestion I'd make is if you have a Revival scroll to revive a knocked out character and has a relatively high Lore requirement, I suggest NOT having the priest carry it.  Why?  Because it's likely that the Priest will have this spell in his spell inventory already, and having a different character capable of doing a revival is a good fallback option ... particularly if it's the priest who needs reviving.   (Had this happen last night in the battle vs Thaos.  Was damned convenient to have Grieving Mother carrying the Revival Scrolls, let me tell you!)

 

5.  Even if you have a dedicated Mechanics master other than a priest (such as Durance), it's not necessarily a bad thing to invest some points in Mechanics for a priest who isn't the party's mechanics specialist because of their trap spells.  You probably wouldn't want to invest a huge number of skill points in it, but some points might be worth the investment.  Regardless, I do agree that there's some good synergy when it comes to the Mechanics skill and the Priest class, due to their trap spells.

[Atchod]

Oh good times on my last playtrough Paladin ( Instant Revive ) , Chanter AoE Revive , Priest AoE Revive , Mage with max lore ( for the druid spells ofcourse!) also with revive scrolls , just cant loose the fight unless you cba to revive 

[Crucis]

Oh good times on my last playtrough Paladin ( Instant Revive ) , Chanter AoE Revive , Priest AoE Revive , Mage with max lore ( for the druid spells ofcourse!) also with revive scrolls , just cant loose the fight unless you cba to revive 

 

And don't forget those "Second Chance" items.  Those always come in handy, too. 

[Tigranes]

Second Chance had a stupid bug where if you were counting on it, say, in an ironman solo, the game wouldn't wait for it to fire and declare you dead. It's fixed in 1.05, at least.

 

A character with high accuracy, is a good pick for Lore since character accuracy influences scroll spells. A ranger would be a good one to stock Paralysis, Revive, Maelstrom, Fan of Flames.

[Crucis]

Second Chance had a stupid bug where if you were counting on it, say, in an ironman solo, the game wouldn't wait for it to fire and declare you dead. It's fixed in 1.05, at least.

 

A character with high accuracy, is a good pick for Lore since character accuracy influences scroll spells. A ranger would be a good one to stock Paralysis, Revive, Maelstrom, Fan of Flames.

 

This makes a lot of sense, except for rangers and Fan of Flames.  Because FoF isn't foe only and Rangers aren't front liners, this spell doesn't seem all that well suited for Rangers, except perhaps in desperate situations.  I see FoF as better for true front liners, like a Fighter who can use the spell to deep fry the enemies who are in his face.

[SparocheeDoom]

What is WILL for? Its the most omitted attribute from all the replies. I have this Will +16 ring and I don't know who to give it to. You say Intellect is good for barbarians and rogues??? I thought wizards do most AoE spells and that's what I increased for my wizard and Aloth. 

 

Another question, how do you increase focus? Just weapons and spells or something else? Is focus same as accuracy?

 

 

Is it me or do these attributes seem generally messed up? BG2, IWD had simple, to the point, and this game has complex attribute system, where Constituion, known to be quite important for warriors, is actually almost meaningless...

Edited May 3, 2015 by MonarchX

[Atchod]

 

Oh good times on my last playtrough Paladin ( Instant Revive ) , Chanter AoE Revive , Priest AoE Revive , Mage with max lore ( for the druid spells ofcourse!) also with revive scrolls , just cant loose the fight unless you cba to revive 

 

And don't forget those "Second Chance" items.  Those always come in handy, too. 

 

OW ! i ran 4 Second Chance items that playtrough also ! :D 

 

Ring of Wonders 

Eder's Armor ( enchanted it all the way up to exceptional and used for whole game on Battlemage )

Rogue Knight Quest Armor 

and cloth armor with second chance

 

Edit  : about Intellect Rogues and barbs .

 

Well Barbarian does AOE carnage that is better than most of aoe's wizzard can get because its free and auto proc so intellect here is a beast stat to increase it even more .

 

Rogues are quite the opposite , they do no aoe but they got sneak attack and they have limited debuff's for sneak attack(  2 Cripling Strikes for the most of the game only +fearsome strike at lvl 9 which is 1 per rest) so you want to keep them rolling as long as possible thus you need duration from intelect ( this is more of a ranged rogue thing also i think because in melee you want defenses even with a rogue and melee rogue can debuff just by flanking the enemy himself , but for ranged rogue Intellect is one of the 3 main Stats ) 

Edited May 3, 2015 by Atchod

[Crucis]

What is WILL for? Its the most omitted attribute from all the replies. I have this Will +16 ring and I don't know who to give it to. You say Intellect is good for barbarians and rogues??? I thought wizards do most AoE spells and that's what I increased for my wizard and Aloth. 

 

Another question, how do you increase focus? Just weapons and spells or something else? Is focus same as accuracy?

 

 

Is it me or do these attributes seem generally messed up? BG2, IWD had simple, to the point, and this game has complex attribute system, where Constituion, known to be quite important for warriors, is actually almost meaningless...

 

"Will" is a defensive stat, used against mental attacks.  Will defense items can be useful on just about any character.

 

INT is useful for any character that does some sort of damage over time, or has some other sort of effect over time.  The higher the INT, the greater the time the effect endures.

 

Focus for ciphers is increased by getting hits on enemies with physical weapons.  Blunderbusses are particularly good at this because they fire 6 pellets in a single "shot", which means that you can recharge Focus quite quickly the more of the pellets that hit the enemy.

 

 

As for the attributes seeming to be messed up, I agree.  It seems to me that the PoE devs were trying to differentiate PoE from DnD and decided that stats were one place to do it.  Frankly, it just seems to me that far too many of the stats are counter-intuitive.   Might (aka Strength), Con, and Dex ought to be important stats to front line fighters.  It just seems bizarre to have Resolve and perception trumping Might, Con, and Dex for those frontliners.  Bizarre.    Or the idea that a cipher ... a psionicist ... should care about Might seems really weird.  I could go on, but you get the point.

[Crucis]

 

 

Oh good times on my last playtrough Paladin ( Instant Revive ) , Chanter AoE Revive , Priest AoE Revive , Mage with max lore ( for the druid spells ofcourse!) also with revive scrolls , just cant loose the fight unless you cba to revive 

 

And don't forget those "Second Chance" items.  Those always come in handy, too. 

 

OW ! i ran 4 Second Chance items that playtrough also ! :D 

 

Ring of Wonders 

Eder's Armor ( enchanted it all the way up to exceptional and used for whole game on Battlemage )

Rogue Knight Quest Armor 

and cloth armor with second chance

 

Edit  : about Intellect Rogues and barbs .

 

Well Barbarian does AOE carnage that is better than most of aoe's wizzard can get because its free and auto proc so intellect here is a beast stat to increase it even more .

 

Rogues are quite the opposite , they do no aoe but they got sneak attack and they have limited debuff's for sneak attack(  2 Cripling Strikes for the most of the game only +fearsome strike at lvl 9 which is 1 per rest) so you want to keep them rolling as long as possible thus you need duration from intelect ( this is more of a ranged rogue thing also i think because in melee you want defenses even with a rogue and melee rogue can debuff just by flanking the enemy himself , but for ranged rogue Intellect is one of the 3 main Stats ) 

 

 

 

You're not getting the point.  OF COURSE, in the PoE system it makes sense to have a solid INT on a Barb.  That's NOT the point.  The point is that the very idea of a smart barbarian is dumb!  And a stat system that encourages such an utterly counter-intuitive, counter-stereotypical vision of barbarians is just plain dumb.  Put another way, I don't blame players for using the PoE system as it is.  I blame the PoE devs for creating the dumb system in the first place.

 

 

[Climhazzard]

What is WILL for? Its the most omitted attribute from all the replies. I have this Will +16 ring and I don't know who to give it to. You say Intellect is good for barbarians and rogues??? I thought wizards do most AoE spells and that's what I increased for my wizard and Aloth. 

 

Another question, how do you increase focus? Just weapons and spells or something else? Is focus same as accuracy?

 

 

Is it me or do these attributes seem generally messed up? BG2, IWD had simple, to the point, and this game has complex attribute system, where Constituion, known to be quite important for warriors, is actually almost meaningless...

 

 

Probably because there is no will attribute?  Will is a defense score that is affected by the intelligence and resolve attributes.  You want a decent will score on any character you don't want to get paralyzed or mind controlled.  

 

Intellect is good for barbarians because it increases the range of carnage and the duration of frenzy, not to mention savage defiance.  I've never heard of it being that great for rogues.  Yes you do want intelligence for wizards.

 

Your starting focus and max focus only increases as you level, to increase it faster in battle you need to do more damage.  So take damage talents, for example an arbalest with the talents gunner, marksman, weapon focus soldier, and biting whip works very well for cipher.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Climhazzard

[Atchod]

 

 

 

Oh good times on my last playtrough Paladin ( Instant Revive ) , Chanter AoE Revive , Priest AoE Revive , Mage with max lore ( for the druid spells ofcourse!) also with revive scrolls , just cant loose the fight unless you cba to revive 

 

And don't forget those "Second Chance" items.  Those always come in handy, too. 

 

OW ! i ran 4 Second Chance items that playtrough also ! :D 

 

Ring of Wonders 

Eder's Armor ( enchanted it all the way up to exceptional and used for whole game on Battlemage )

Rogue Knight Quest Armor 

and cloth armor with second chance

 

Edit  : about Intellect Rogues and barbs .

 

Well Barbarian does AOE carnage that is better than most of aoe's wizzard can get because its free and auto proc so intellect here is a beast stat to increase it even more .

 

Rogues are quite the opposite , they do no aoe but they got sneak attack and they have limited debuff's for sneak attack(  2 Cripling Strikes for the most of the game only +fearsome strike at lvl 9 which is 1 per rest) so you want to keep them rolling as long as possible thus you need duration from intelect ( this is more of a ranged rogue thing also i think because in melee you want defenses even with a rogue and melee rogue can debuff just by flanking the enemy himself , but for ranged rogue Intellect is one of the 3 main Stats ) 

 

 

 

You're not getting the point.  OF COURSE, in the PoE system it makes sense to have a solid INT on a Barb.  That's NOT the point.  The point is that the very idea of a smart barbarian is dumb!  And a stat system that encourages such an utterly counter-intuitive, counter-stereotypical vision of barbarians is just plain dumb.  Put another way, I don't blame players for using the PoE system as it is.  I blame the PoE devs for creating the dumb system in the first place.

 

Heh , you really believe there were no Intellectual barbarians :D ? This discussion happened somewhere on the forum alrdy lol

 

Also i couldnt blame dev's for this attribute system , there are a ton of other things that you should blame devs for this is a very minor compared to lets say encounter design

[Crucis]

 

 

 

 

Oh good times on my last playtrough Paladin ( Instant Revive ) , Chanter AoE Revive , Priest AoE Revive , Mage with max lore ( for the druid spells ofcourse!) also with revive scrolls , just cant loose the fight unless you cba to revive 

 

And don't forget those "Second Chance" items.  Those always come in handy, too. 

 

OW ! i ran 4 Second Chance items that playtrough also ! :D 

 

Ring of Wonders 

Eder's Armor ( enchanted it all the way up to exceptional and used for whole game on Battlemage )

Rogue Knight Quest Armor 

and cloth armor with second chance

 

Edit  : about Intellect Rogues and barbs .

 

Well Barbarian does AOE carnage that is better than most of aoe's wizzard can get because its free and auto proc so intellect here is a beast stat to increase it even more .

 

Rogues are quite the opposite , they do no aoe but they got sneak attack and they have limited debuff's for sneak attack(  2 Cripling Strikes for the most of the game only +fearsome strike at lvl 9 which is 1 per rest) so you want to keep them rolling as long as possible thus you need duration from intelect ( this is more of a ranged rogue thing also i think because in melee you want defenses even with a rogue and melee rogue can debuff just by flanking the enemy himself , but for ranged rogue Intellect is one of the 3 main Stats ) 

 

 

 

You're not getting the point.  OF COURSE, in the PoE system it makes sense to have a solid INT on a Barb.  That's NOT the point.  The point is that the very idea of a smart barbarian is dumb!  And a stat system that encourages such an utterly counter-intuitive, counter-stereotypical vision of barbarians is just plain dumb.  Put another way, I don't blame players for using the PoE system as it is.  I blame the PoE devs for creating the dumb system in the first place.

 

Heh , you really believe there were no Intellectual barbarians :D ? This discussion happened somewhere on the forum alrdy lol

 

Also i couldnt blame dev's for this attribute system , there are a ton of other things that you should blame devs for this is a very minor compared to lets say encounter design

 

 

 

A few things....

 

1.  Oh there were certainly the occasional intelligent barbarian.  But INT shouldn't be used in any way to improve a barbarian's ability to do damage.  INT should be a stat that enhances non-combat things for a barbarian, such as talking abilities, or skills such as Lore.

 

2. As for blaming the Devs for the attribute system, sorry, but I think that it all starts with the attribute system and builds from there.  It's part of the foundation of the game.  And if you don't get it right, everything else is affected by the flaws in that system.

[Climhazzard]

I'll try to break it down.

 

Might:  Increases damage, healing and the fortitude defense.  Fortitude defense protects you from some prone attacks and several status effects like poison, disease, and petrify.  You want might for both your healer and your damage dealers; monks, barbarians, rogues, rangers, priests, wizards, druids, and ciphers.

 

Constitution:  Increases HP, endurance, and fortitude defense.  A defense attribute, perception and resolve are generally considered to be better defense attributes but don't neglect constitution completely unless you're min/maxxing.

 

Dexterity:  Increases the animation speed of all actions, and your reflex defense.  Reflex defense typically protects you from direct damage spells, particularly the area of effect direct damage spells, and breath attacks like from dragons.  Dexterity is important for everyone except your tanks (but don't neglect reflex defense on your tank) and maybe chanters (the phrases aren't affected by dexterity).  Want to get that revive spell off faster from your priest?  You need more dexterity.  Want to attack faster with your monk?  You need more dexterity.

 

Perception:  Increases deflection, reflex defense, and interrupt.  Tanks will need a high reflex defense if they're going to tank a certain dragon, they also need high deflection, so perception is a good tank attribute.  Interrupt is of questionable value but it can potentially be useful to delay enemy spells.

 

Intelligence:  Increases the duration of all buffs, your will defense, and the size of area of effect abilities.  Buffs include many things important to all classes, such as a monks swift strikes, a barbarians frenzy, a humans fighting spirit, etc.  Whether or not you want high intelligence depends on your build.  I use torment's reach on my monk, it's area of effect is generally big enough with 8 or 10 intelligence.  I play human on my monk, if I dumped intelligence my fighting spirit buff would be very short and torment's reach would hardly hit any opponents, plus I'd have a low will defense so I'd be vulnerable to charm, dominate, and paralyze type spells.

 

Resolve:  Increases deflection, concentration, and will defense.  You'll want deflection for all your frontline fighters, even your dps, the default of 10 resolve can be fine but don't dump both resolve and perception on any character unless you're suicidal.  Concentration is useful for any class, and very useful for casters.  Trying to cast a slow spell that you don't want to get interrupted?  You want a good concentration.  Trying to chug a potion in a dire situation?  Concentration makes it happen.  Even regular attacks can get interrupted and it's annoying, I tend to always boost resolve for my player character, my monk stat score is something like 16m-12c-16d-10p-8i-16r (with this i have balanced offenses and defenses, has been great for an offensive monk in PotD).

 

In other words, all attributes can be important for all classes depending on what your build is.  You could have 13 in every stat and do just fine in most cases.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Climhazzard

[Eos]

I'll break it down:

 

Offensive Role

 

Might Max

Dexterity Max

Constitution Low

Perception Low

Intelligence Max

Resolve Low

 

Defensive Role

 

Might Low

Dexterity Low

Constitution High

Perception High

Intelligence Medium

Resolve High

 

Hybrid Role

 

Whatever you deem necessary

 

There. PoE's attribute system in a nut shell.

[cctobias]

Well first off its not by class but by build.  You can come up with a good use for every stat (except maybe Con) for the various fighter builds.

 

That being said the attributes are not created equal.  The defensive attributes are far more important to defensive builds than the offensive stats are to offensive builds.   Defense in this game and other games with similar rolling systems (D&D 3.0 for example) work in such a way that each point closer to the "max" is stronger and stronger.  

 

It is also important to note that the defensive attribute DO NOT give the same absolute effect for an offesnive build vs a defenseive build.

 

 

Suppose there is something that will miss you 98% of the time when it has 100 accruacy.  Now suppose we change your defense such that it will miss you 99% of the time.  This effectively doubles your defense simply by adding 1 point of defense.  This is the extreme, but not unattainable case.  Similarly suppose you will be missed 50% of the time by that something, when we add 1 point of defense you are missed 51%.  This is not nearly as big of an increase.  A good way to quantify this is to multiply your mitigation by your health.  At 50% miss rate you, over time, have 2x your health in "effective health".  At 99% miss rate you have 100x.  As you can see going from 50% to 99% is a 50 fold improvement.  But going from 50% to 51% is a very small improvement.

 

If someone had 100 health their effective health goes from 200 at 50% (100 *(0.50/1)) to 204 at 51%  (100*(0.49/1)) to 10,000 at 99% (100*(0.01/1)).  So even when we only take the later half of the mitigation curve we get a HUGE difference in the "effective health" that 1 point of defense gives you.

 

 

 

So while 2 points in PER or RES can be extremely impactful for a defensive build it can be very unimpactful for an offsensive build.  This can heavily depend on equipment and other factors.  But if you roughly in the middle ground of defense don't expect attributes to noticeably do that much for your "effective health".  If you are planning on being on the high end get every single point of defense you can, almost nothing else pays off as well.   It can literally pay off 10:1.

 

 

The offensive stats on the other hand are essentially linear.  A few percent extra damage is exactly that and adds onto the total increase just like it seems.  Its nice but the difference between a character 1.2x damage and 1.25x damage is exactly as it appears and probably not that huge of a deal in general.   The difference between 17 and 18 might is quite straightforward and not that big of a deal.  The only real question there is do you need the effect for you build, this is most debatable for Int especially regards for duration.  For example some people may say the longer DoT's from int are worthwhile for some builds, but in point of fact it can actually harm you DoT damage overall in some circumstances.  Although DEX vs MIG is sometime a bit of an open question since DEX affects attack speed and recovery and is the only thing affects both.

 

However in general for most builds that would want both DEX and MIG they really can have pretty crappy PER and RES since they are probably "peeing in the ocean" so to speak when it comes to defense.

 

Its really only for builds that want some kind of 75% offesne 75% defense type thing where they are a decent offtank with good damage that it gets rather hairy and not that straightforward.  You would need to be very particular about defense numbers, equipment and monster accuracy numbers to have any idea of the relative value of PER and RES versus STR/MIG etc.  

[MoxyWoo]

Nice post Climhazzard.

 

Just wanted to add, DEX is always a cool one due to how it works shortening both animation and recovery time.  

 

RES is annoying to minimize in any class... interrupts are annoying to be hit by, and annoying to try and produce, so its best to usually dump PER/CON due to this.

 

This usually leaves 3 max stats, and 1 stat at 15 to 16 if I remember right, which is good for any class mix.

[Tigranes]

Huh. I thought Dex didn't affect recovery, only attack speed. I'm wrong, I guess?

[Atchod]

Think it affects recovery and attack speed but not reload which is major butthurt everyone is having with dex .

Edited May 4, 2015 by Atchod

[Adragan]

Suppose there is something that will miss you 98% of the time when it has 100 accruacy.  Now suppose we change your defense such that it will miss you 99% of the time.  This effectively doubles your defense simply by adding 1 point of defense.  This is the extreme, but not unattainable case.  Similarly suppose you will be missed 50% of the time by that something, when we add 1 point of defense you are missed 51%.  This is not nearly as big of an increase.  A good way to quantify this is to multiply your mitigation by your health.  At 50% miss rate you, over time, have 2x your health in "effective health".  At 99% miss rate you have 100x.  As you can see going from 50% to 99% is a 50 fold improvement.  But going from 50% to 51% is a very small improvement.

 

That's not quite correct. Ignoring grazes and critical hits to simplify the discussion: If you are to endure a thousand 100 damage attacks and have a chance to dodge each attack independantly, 1 more percent chance to dodge will always mean 1000 less damage taken. It doesn't matter whether you had 50% chances to dodge or 98%, if you get 1 more percent you dodge a thousand extra points of damage over the course of these 1000 attacks.

 

What you point is something else, ultimately meaningless: With 98% chances to dodge you will take 2000 damage, so removing 1000 damage from that means you will take 50% less damage than you would have otherwise. With 50% chances to dodge you'll take 50000 damage, so removing 1000 only represents a gain of 2%. It doesn't matter though because it's 1000 damage saved in both cases and you have a flat health value and its decrease is linear.

 

What you're talking about is reminding me of the mathematical trap where I'll tell you that a hare has to run from A to B, but will never reach B because everytime it does 50% of the remaining distance, there's still 50% left to cover. It doesn't matter because the hare runs at a constant speed and total distance is the same regardless of how many times we cut it in sub-values while hiding the fact behind percentages and wording.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Adragan