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Journalism and Bias in the Gaming Industry

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Huh expected that to be in the CiF section of the Guardian.


Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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eb44e11c5343ce068a407bffbac4384c.png

 

"Lookism"?! http://www.love-shy.com/lswiki/Lookism

 

I really do not say this often, but please, with sugar and cherry on top, get the **** out of videogames.


"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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Michael Koretzky from SPJ has a discussion with Oliver Cambell:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKdqocsXp08


"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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The only counter argument I could make is no one had even heard of Depression Quest until GG was founded so wasn't  a " mountain made of a molehill " about this example? Its not like AAA games are created like this or for that matter even other Indie games where developers have physical relationships with developers so why create a movement that is determined to " expose corruption in the gaming industry " based on this example. In other words its not that bad this accusation of unethical behavior because I am sure the whole Depression Quest was just one isolated example ?

So its okay to give positive press for your friends without disclosing they are your friends, provided its not a AAA game and provided its just that one time?  I'm not 100% sure what you're arguing here.

 

Was a lot of the DQ/ZQ stuff sensationalized?  Sure, I'll agree with that.  Should ZQ been subject to online harassment? Nope.  And I don't mean talking about ethical issues as harrassment, but a lot of the stuff put out there about her was personal and mean and had little to nothing to do with DQ getting press from ZQ's friends.

 

But my whole point in removing the issue from a specific person and specific game and specific situation was to illustrate what the problem is.  Its easy to drown in the back and forth about or from Zoe Quinn (or Anita Sarkesian or Brianna Wu) being treated abysmally online vs the issue of not disclosing friendships when presenting what appear to be objectively neutral articles.  And the same is true for anyone on the "other side" who has been harassed.

 

I think those of us who aren't having a knee jerk reaction can say that harassing people online (including doxxing and death threats) is bad.  And that not disclosing that you're pals/significant other with a developer when writing supposedly objective news articles is bad.  The problem is that people want to fight the noise (who harassed who, "SJW wanting to control games and thoughts" vs "GGers wanting to harass women and minorities") and personalities and not actually the issues.  As I've said before you can be against harassment online, for anyone of any gender/sexual orientation/race/creed/etc making games and want proper disclosure of bias-making relationships.  These are not mutually exclusive concepts, and until both sides realize that all that will ever happen is constantly fighting the noise and the personalities, renewed everytime another "incident" happens.

Edited by Amentep
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eb44e11c5343ce068a407bffbac4384c.png

 

"Lookism"?! http://www.love-shy.com/lswiki/Lookism

 

I really do not say this often, but please, with sugar and cherry on top, get the **** out of videogames.

"Looksism theory posits that the primary cause for love-shyness and involuntary celibacy is physical appearance. "

 

Sounds like someone faked this for an undergrad paper. Though the idea of "involuntary celibacy" is pretty funny, as if you're a victim of something

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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This... Love-shy website. Can't figure out if it's meant as satire or... I mean, that'd be a lot of effort. But then, it can't be serious... But then, it'd be too much effort... But people surely can't be that crazy...

 

Ungh. I think I need to lie down for a bit.


Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.

 

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"Looksism theory posits that the primary cause for love-shyness and involuntary celibacy is physical appearance. "

Sounds like someone faked this for an undergrad paper. Though the idea of "involuntary celibacy" is pretty funny, as if you're a victim of something

 

Oh good, an excuse for not being able to get a date/hook up so that people can feel like they are victims instead of facing the fact that they are ****ty people no one wants to be around.  This will fit nicely next to all the bogus excuses people come up with for why their kids turn out to be ****ty rather than facing the reality of them being ****ty parents.

 

Reminder:  When things don't go your way, you are surely a victim of something (make something up if an appropriate bogus excuse doesn't already exist).  You being inept can't possibly be the reason because, remember, everyone is a star and you all get participation trophies.  Hugs for everybody.

 

nRzeDwD.gif

Edited by Keyrock
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Well.. I do blame nature./GOd/whatever for the fact I'm extremely ugly. L0L


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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GG War poster has been updated:

 

1431365900434.jpg

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"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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GG War poster has been updated:

 

1431365900434.jpg

 

Wow GG sure has load of enemies.....you guys really don't know how to make friends do you ?   :teehee:


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Oh Bruce, did you just indirectly admit that the SJW conspiracy is real?

 

 

 

*BUSTED*


"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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eb44e11c5343ce068a407bffbac4384c.png

 

"Lookism"?! http://www.love-shy.com/lswiki/Lookism

 

I really do not say this often, but please, with sugar and cherry on top, get the **** out of videogames.

"Looksism theory posits that the primary cause for love-shyness and involuntary celibacy is physical appearance. "

 

Sounds like someone faked this for an undergrad paper. Though the idea of "involuntary celibacy" is pretty funny, as if you're a victim of something

 

 

 

This... Love-shy website. Can't figure out if it's meant as satire or... I mean, that'd be a lot of effort. But then, it can't be serious... But then, it'd be too much effort... But people surely can't be that crazy...

 

Ungh. I think I need to lie down for a bit.

 

 

Well in all fairness, the linked explanation is from what looks like an "incel" website. It's a... peculiar subculture, giving very different answers to the same perceived problems as the PUA/MRA community does. You might remember Elliot Rodger as a person being involved with them.

 

In any case, they don't really have an overlap with the SJW demographic as far as I'm aware, the two operating on mutually incompatible basic assumptions. Here's what, well, sane people mean by "lookism". 

 

Edit: Intriguingly, the wiki page makes no mention of the halo effect, which is a rather well-researched area of basically the same phenomenon.

Edited by aluminiumtrioxid

"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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Body fascism, have to remember that one.


Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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I'm very confused, how can characters be pro/against anything?


Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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I'm very confused, how can characters be pro/against anything?

 

What do you mean?

 

Edit: oh, the poster. Nevermind.

Edited by aluminiumtrioxid

"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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I'm very confused, how can characters be pro/against anything?

 

I am confused by your confusement.


"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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I'm very confused, how can characters be pro/against anything?

They represent ideologies.


I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

village_idiot.gif

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I'm very confused, how can characters be pro/against anything?

 

I am confused by your confusement.

 

In the poster that was thrown in the thread, Faith from Mirrors Edge is taking a side.


Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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There's at least one character on the gg side as well, she's there twice. Albeit she is gg's mascot. NuThor is there on aGG too, presumably due to the ethics in blah blah. Characters can take sides even if only due to authorial intent or being designed as a representative.

 

Don't know what Faith is doing there though unless she's meant to be representing DICE or rpatchett or something.

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There's at least one character on the gg side as well, she's there twice. Albeit she is gg's mascot. NuThor is there on aGG too, presumably due to the ethics in blah blah. Characters can take sides even if only due to authorial intent or being designed as a representative.

 

Don't know what Faith is doing there though unless she's meant to be representing DICE or rpatchett or something.

 

Seems a bit strange that GG would have any women as a mascot considering how the movement feels about women and treats them ?


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Sounds like someone faked this for an undergrad paper. Though the idea of "involuntary celibacy" is pretty funny, as if you're a victim of something

 

How are they going to solve this injustice of involuntary celibacy? Provide people with sex? This might not be so bad. Can't wait to see where this goes...


"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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There's at least one character on the gg side as well, she's there twice. Albeit she is gg's mascot. NuThor is there on aGG too, presumably due to the ethics in blah blah. Characters can take sides even if only due to authorial intent or being designed as a representative.

 

Don't know what Faith is doing there though unless she's meant to be representing DICE or rpatchett or something.

 

Seems a bit strange that GG would have any women as a mascot considering how the movement feels about women and treats them ?

 

Except that the majority of the GG group want not some wierd "give me my ass and titties!" thing, but rather they want a gaming media that's not built around enforced storylines from the editors, and a media that gives reviews etc based on their relationship with the companies that they're discussing rather than content of the product.

 

One of the reasons this discussion keeps continuing is because people keep finding different ways that the entire journalistic enterprise is linked together to push stories that the companies (be they the makers of the game, or the journalistic company that is doing an article) wants to push (see: Gamers are Dead for example).

 

The sexism aspect of this is used by the Anti-gamersGate people to deliberately cloud over the first issue, and they're separate issues, linked only because of the nature that all of this came to pass.


Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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I'm very confused, how can characters be pro/against anything?

 

I am confused by your confusement.

 

In the poster that was thrown in the thread, Faith from Mirrors Edge is taking a side.

 

 

IIRC, EA had Anita Sarkeesian as a creative consultant on how to remodel Faith in Mirror's Edge 2.


"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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I'm very confused, how can characters be pro/against anything?

 

I am confused by your confusement.

 

In the poster that was thrown in the thread, Faith from Mirrors Edge is taking a side.

 

 

IIRC, EA had Anita Sarkeesian as a creative consultant on how to remodel Faith in Mirror's Edge 2.

 

 

How did you feel about that on personal level? 

 

Do you think Anita is justified in this case  or do you think her intentions are misplaced?

Edited by BruceVC

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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