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Journalism and Bias in the Gaming Industry

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOYBWwmcXeg

 

You heard it here first ladies and gentleman, cash payments and a sexual relationship between a journalist and their subject is both ethical and not worthy of any attention. You halfwitted buffoon.

Edited by Nonek
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Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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Ooh scolded for telling the truth by Bruce, such a moral authority.

 

Do your own investigation hypocrite this is common knowledge, and i'll not waste my time on satisfying an abuser of womens tiny mind.

 

Yeah I would expect this from you, much easier just to say things and not have to back them up 

 

 

Like your unproven assertion that Mr Grayson is innocent of any unethical behaviour? Please Bruce you can believe your own lies, as i'm sure they let you sleep at night, but don't expect any others to do so.

 

A game journalist has a code of ethics to follow, he should not have a personal relationship of any kind with a game developer, never mind sleeping with one or paying for what follows. This is basic ethics, that can be confirmed by any ethics professor or anybody possessing a journalism degree. This should be simple to comprehend for a child or even you.

 

Edit: I'm not surprised that I have to tell you this.

 

 

Are you suggesting that Grayson paid Quinn to sleep with her?

 

I hope you aren't saying that...that would be a new low from you


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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No i'm not you halfwitted buffoon, and asking for ethical behaviour is now a new low? Honestly you'd know far more about paying for sex than me Bruce, I wouldn't think of intruding on your passtime.

 

However to get back on track now that we have proven again that Mr Greyson commited ethical abuses, I hope you aren't going to lie about this again, every debate you make yourself look more and more ridiculous.

Edited by Nonek

Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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It seems like this video has to be shown at least once in the GamerGate-threads:

 

Edited by Meshugger
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"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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Nonek mate, remember what we said about engaging people who weren't arguing in good faith?

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"Take your child murderin' god and shove his him up his own ass."-Volorun

 

"...the vote of a black redhead disabled homosexual transsexual Jew should probably be worth the same as at least a hundred white heterosexual Christians."-Rostere

 

"i can think of many women i would gladly sleep with, but not a single one that i would want as a girlfriend/wife... neither real nor fictional."-teknoman2

 

"I'm all for killing dogs in film." - algroth

 

"Iselmyr is the one who did GOMAD... Aloth is lactose intolerant" -ShadySands

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Yes but it's so funny.

 

Edit: You're right I shouldn't troll like this, sorry.

Edited by Nonek

Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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Yes but it's so funny.

It can be, but we have a few situations that are more relevant at the moment, such as the SPJ thing and possibly a debate panel at a con. I'd much prefer to talk about that than getting into another circular argument with Bruce that clogs up several pages.

  • Like 2

"Take your child murderin' god and shove his him up his own ass."-Volorun

 

"...the vote of a black redhead disabled homosexual transsexual Jew should probably be worth the same as at least a hundred white heterosexual Christians."-Rostere

 

"i can think of many women i would gladly sleep with, but not a single one that i would want as a girlfriend/wife... neither real nor fictional."-teknoman2

 

"I'm all for killing dogs in film." - algroth

 

"Iselmyr is the one who did GOMAD... Aloth is lactose intolerant" -ShadySands

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For a half a year now only people who bring up Zoe Quinn are the anti-GG people. No one else gives a damn about her.

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This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.

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Yes but it's so funny.

It can be, but we have a few situations that are more relevant at the moment, such as the SPJ thing and possibly a debate panel at a con. I'd much prefer to talk about that than getting into another circular argument with Bruce that clogs up several pages.

 

 

Ooh i've not heard of this, Return of the Honey Badgers?


Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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Yes but it's so funny.

 

It can be, but we have a few situations that are more relevant at the moment, such as the SPJ thing and possibly a debate panel at a con. I'd much prefer to talk about that than getting into another circular argument with Bruce that clogs up several pages.

 

Ooh i've not heard of this, Return of the Honey Badgers?

Not necessarily, a comic con said it would be open to a debate panel concerning gg. At work right now so can't link, but the idea was to get a couple of willing people selected. KiA probably has more details.

  • Like 1

"Take your child murderin' god and shove his him up his own ass."-Volorun

 

"...the vote of a black redhead disabled homosexual transsexual Jew should probably be worth the same as at least a hundred white heterosexual Christians."-Rostere

 

"i can think of many women i would gladly sleep with, but not a single one that i would want as a girlfriend/wife... neither real nor fictional."-teknoman2

 

"I'm all for killing dogs in film." - algroth

 

"Iselmyr is the one who did GOMAD... Aloth is lactose intolerant" -ShadySands

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CDycPj2UMAEeMj9.png

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"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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Yes but it's so funny.

It can be, but we have a few situations that are more relevant at the moment, such as the SPJ thing and possibly a debate panel at a con. I'd much prefer to talk about that than getting into another circular argument with Bruce that clogs up several pages.

 

Fair enough, until next time Nonek :)


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Are you suggesting that Grayson paid Quinn to sleep with her?

 

I hope you aren't saying that...that would be a new low from you

Its not really about Quinn or Grayson, per se. They're just real world examples of the questions that arise when developers and journalist intersect at at personal level. What he's saying is that if you're a journalist in a relationship with a developer, that you should recuse yourself/be recused by editorial from any journalistic endeavors related to the covering of that developer. 

 

To not use real people, lets say Developer A (DA) and Journalist B (JB) are in a relationship.  JB writes positive things about DA's career in games, and mentions their current work, the Awesome Game of Awesomeness (AGA)

  • How do you know the positive press isn't influenced by the relationship?
  • Would this developer be noted by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA runs into financial trouble because they sunk too much money in their project.  JB allows DA to move in and pays for some of the bills so DA can continue working on AGA.  JB writes a positive preview of AGA.

  • How do you know the positive preview isn't influenced by the relationship?
  • Isn't JB technically a financial investor in AGA? Does this mean JB can't be objective?
  • Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA and JB break up.  DA completes AGA.  JB gives a negative/positive review of AGA

  • If Positive: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write positively about it because they'd hyped it during the relationship?
  • If Negative: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write negatively about it because the relationship soured?
  • Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA works on the sequel, AGA2.  When it comes out, JB pans/promotes it.

  • If Promote: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write positively about it because they'd hyped it during the relationship?
  • If Pan: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write negatively about it because the relationship soured?
  • Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

You see the problem begins to arise about whether you can trust the news outlet to be unbiased as much as it can, and point out what biases it has when it can't be neutral.

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Are you suggesting that Grayson paid Quinn to sleep with her?

 

I hope you aren't saying that...that would be a new low from you

Its not really about Quinn or Grayson, per se. They're just real world examples of the questions that arise when developers and journalist intersect at at personal level. What he's saying is that if you're a journalist in a relationship with a developer, that you should recuse yourself/be recused by editorial from any journalistic endeavors related to the covering of that developer. 

 

To not use real people, lets say Developer A (DA) and Journalist B (JB) are in a relationship.  JB writes positive things about DA's career in games, and mentions their current work, the Awesome Game of Awesomeness (AGA)

  • How do you know the positive press isn't influenced by the relationship?
  • Would this developer be noted by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA runs into financial trouble because they sunk too much money in their project.  JB allows DA to move in and pays for some of the bills so DA can continue working on AGA.  JB writes a positive preview of AGA.

  • How do you know the positive preview isn't influenced by the relationship?
  • Isn't JB technically a financial investor in AGA? Does this mean JB can't be objective?
  • Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA and JB break up.  DA completes AGA.  JB gives a negative/positive review of AGA

  • If Positive: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write positively about it because they'd hyped it during the relationship?
  • If Negative: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write negatively about it because the relationship soured?
  • Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA works on the sequel, AGA2.  When it comes out, JB pans/promotes it.

  • If Promote: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write positively about it because they'd hyped it during the relationship?
  • If Pan: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write negatively about it because the relationship soured?
  • Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

You see the problem begins to arise about whether you can trust the news outlet to be unbiased as much as it can, and point out what biases it has when it can't be neutral.

 

 

This is a very good post and detail, very interesting. I am going to dinner now but I will respond to this..probably tomorrow 


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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While Jade (surely, not Jane) Raymond may not have had any probllems with her employers and certainly seems to have been one of the better industry producers she has copped a lot of pretty unpleasant abuse from the more general online population. She's a good example of a successful woman in gaming but not a particularly good one in terms of having had no- genuinely- misogynist abuse, because she has.

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Wonder if it was bad as Wu or Quinn get. Good job soldiering on through it - of course when you're getting paid AAA rates, one can easily say "like I give a ****.." to that noise

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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You can do a google image search for some of the 'cartoons' done about her if you want to see. I'm no sensitive internet snowflake and I'd consider them pretty bad. Obvious warning for potential unpleasantness if anyone does so.

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You can do a google image search for some of the 'cartoons' done about her if you want to see. I'm no sensitive internet snowflake and I'd consider them pretty bad. Obvious warning for potential unpleasantness if anyone does so.

I did so and it was unpleasant.


"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Are you suggesting that Grayson paid Quinn to sleep with her?

 

I hope you aren't saying that...that would be a new low from you

Its not really about Quinn or Grayson, per se. They're just real world examples of the questions that arise when developers and journalist intersect at at personal level. What he's saying is that if you're a journalist in a relationship with a developer, that you should recuse yourself/be recused by editorial from any journalistic endeavors related to the covering of that developer. 

 

To not use real people, lets say Developer A (DA) and Journalist B (JB) are in a relationship.  JB writes positive things about DA's career in games, and mentions their current work, the Awesome Game of Awesomeness (AGA)

  • How do you know the positive press isn't influenced by the relationship?
  • Would this developer be noted by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA runs into financial trouble because they sunk too much money in their project.  JB allows DA to move in and pays for some of the bills so DA can continue working on AGA.  JB writes a positive preview of AGA.

  • How do you know the positive preview isn't influenced by the relationship?
  • Isn't JB technically a financial investor in AGA? Does this mean JB can't be objective?
  • Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA and JB break up.  DA completes AGA.  JB gives a negative/positive review of AGA

  • If Positive: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write positively about it because they'd hyped it during the relationship?
  • If Negative: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write negatively about it because the relationship soured?
  • Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA works on the sequel, AGA2.  When it comes out, JB pans/promotes it.

  • If Promote: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write positively about it because they'd hyped it during the relationship?
  • If Pan: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write negatively about it because the relationship soured?
  • Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

You see the problem begins to arise about whether you can trust the news outlet to be unbiased as much as it can, and point out what biases it has when it can't be neutral.

 

Well based on how you have created this post and the logical nature of your points I would have to be insane to disagree with it. So good points made in a reasonable and convincing manner 

 

The only counter argument I could make is no one had even heard of Depression Quest until GG was founded so wasn't  a " mountain made of a molehill " about this example? Its not like AAA games are created like this or for that matter even other Indie games where developers have physical relationships with developers so why create a movement that is determined to " expose corruption in the gaming industry " based on this example. In other words its not that bad this accusation of unethical behavior because I am sure the whole Depression Quest was just one isolated example ? 


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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You can do a google image search for some of the 'cartoons' done about her if you want to see. I'm no sensitive internet snowflake and I'd consider them pretty bad. Obvious warning for potential unpleasantness if anyone does so.

Ah yeah I remember those, but was wondering if she got death threats or anything along those lines. Probably so. Still a good example of just doing it. And also why all the victims are nobodies in the industry or people who aren't even in it (scared off a field, pft).


Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Well based on how you have created this post and the logical nature of your points I would have to be insane to disagree with it. So good points made in a reasonable and convincing manner 

news outlet to be unbiased as much as it can, and point out what biases it has when it can't be neutral.

 

 

The only counter argument I could make is no one had even heard of Depression Quest until GG was founded so wasn't  a " mountain made of a molehill " about this example? Its not like AAA games are created like this or for that matter even other Indie games where developers have physical relationships with developers so why create a movement that is determined to " expose corruption in the gaming industry " based on this example. In other words its not that bad this accusation of unethical behavior because I am sure the whole Depression Quest was just one isolated example ? 

Well one of those things I heard about the whole situation was that Quinn had put in something along the lines of "donations and/or a portion of sales will go towards Depression research" and when the particular charity mentioned was asked they responded there had been no donations from the game, and the note disappeared.


Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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Has this been posted yet? https://archive.is/0LoNG

 

Wasn't it The Guardian that originally posted the Snowden leaks? What kind of tripe is this?

 

 

 

It’s early days, but if we really want to create a progressive new world then issues like these should be at the hearts of our efforts from the very start. I hope Musk and his peers open up that discussion sooner rather than later, and I hope that people like Lee can take part in it. The last thing we need is to wake up in 50 years and find that a bunch of #gamergate nobheads are running Mars.
  • Like 1

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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The very epitome of modern journalism, absolutely laughable.


Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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Mars or Bust baby!


"You know, there's more to being an evil despot than getting cake whenever you want it"

 

"If that's what you think, you're DOING IT WRONG."

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Has this been posted yet? https://archive.is/0LoNG

 

Wasn't it The Guardian that originally posted the Snowden leaks? What kind of tripe is this?

 

It’s early days, but if we really want to create a progressive new world then issues like these should be at the hearts of our efforts from the very start. I hope Musk and his peers open up that discussion sooner rather than later, and I hope that people like Lee can take part in it. The last thing we need is to wake up in 50 years and find that a bunch of #gamergate nobheads are running Mars.

 

The feminists know, shut it down!


"Take your child murderin' god and shove his him up his own ass."-Volorun

 

"...the vote of a black redhead disabled homosexual transsexual Jew should probably be worth the same as at least a hundred white heterosexual Christians."-Rostere

 

"i can think of many women i would gladly sleep with, but not a single one that i would want as a girlfriend/wife... neither real nor fictional."-teknoman2

 

"I'm all for killing dogs in film." - algroth

 

"Iselmyr is the one who did GOMAD... Aloth is lactose intolerant" -ShadySands

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