IGN's Take On What Obsidian's Up To

[Aeon]

i'd be putting my money on KOTOR 2. why? becuase we know that obsidian is working on a known franchise, on PC and conlsole. And that they have a deal with BioWare. Now how many publishers are going to trust their beloved franchise to an unknown developer (regardless of personell)?

 

But as they have a deal with Bioware, and are working on known franchise KOTOR 2, or NWN 2, and the inclusion of console would sway me towards KOTOR 2.

 

But i could be really wrong

[Kasoroth]

I think KotOR's combat was not all that great (although they did a pretty good job with the combat animations), but that didn't prevent me from liking the game. Actually, many of my favorite games didn't really have great combat:

 

Ultima 7: Combat wasn't really all that great. No control of NPC party members, so your tactical choices were pretty limited.

 

Ultima Underworld: Combat wasn't really all that great. 3 different types of attacks. Single PC, no party members. It was hard to switch your active spell in the middle of combat.

 

Fallout: Combat was not too bad, but nothing all that special either. Get small gun skill very high, get sniper rifle, aim at eyes, win. OR Get lots of action points and perks that let you shoot fast, get turbo plasma rifle, unload 4 times as much ammo as your opponents, win.

 

Planescape: Torment: Combat wasn't really all that great. Very few spellcasting enemies. Get high Con, get good AC, let the Nameless One charge in first so everyone attacks him, win, let TNO regenerate.

 

While a good combat system is nice, and it allows players to exercise the tactical part of their brain, I don't think combat necessarily has to be good to fulfil its purpose. Combat should be there as an obstacle to a particular course of action. The problem with very linear games (like IWD2) is that there is only one path, and you have to follow it. They can't put in an obstacle that some characters (or parties) can't get past, or the game would become impossible.

 

In a non-linear game, you can (and should, in my opinion) include encounters that are simply too high level for the PC at the level that the player is likely to first encounter them. They should not necessarily be violently hostile unless the player provokes it. Metzger and his slaver gang in Fallout 2 are a good example. When I first met him, I wanted to kill him, but I was too low level, so I had to bargain with him to free Vic. I came back later with power armor and a gauss rifle and put a bullet hole right beween his eyes.

 

Sometimes it's fun to try to fight something that's too powerful, and through luck, good tactics, and a bunch of reloads actually win the fight. Other times it's fun to go back to people who pushed you around at low level and blow them away. A linear game doesn't give you this option, which is probably why I generally prefer non-linear games.

 

-Kasoroth

[Silvermoon]

Giving my opinion on two things at once. First:

 

You HAVE to stay in the Star Wars universe. The very core of the game must be centered around Star Wars, the races, the planets we know.

If I'm not mistaking, Lucas is telling this to every developer that makes a game in the Star Wars galaxy, and if the developer doesn't agree with it, they can go.

 

While a good combat system is nice, and it allows players to exercise the tactical part of their brain, I don't think combat necessarily has to be good to fulfil its purpose. Combat should be there as an obstacle to a particular course of action. The problem with very linear games (like IWD2) is that there is only one path, and you have to follow it. They can't put in an obstacle that some characters (or parties) can't get past, or the game would become impossible.

I have to agree with you here. After all, Obsidian is making an RPG, not a turn-based, or real time strategy game (that we know for sure, at least ), so combat should focus more on the skills a character has gained during the game, and less on how a player is in reflexes.

KotOR's combat system did exactly that, giving players the chance to line up their gained skills

[Phoenix]

I also bet Obsidian is working on KoTOR 2. I also quite confident that Obsidian can develops a very good sequel, as many peoples there are experienced developers from Black Isle.

[Bobbin]

@Kasoroth: I think you are mostly right. Great RPGs do not necessarily need to have the most tactical advanced combat system. However, I think Fallouts combat system was still better than KotORs cause it just gave you the FEEL of acting tactically. And this is what I also did until a certain level where enemies became more an annoyance than a challenge. For a long time you had to cope with weak weapons so you had to fight carefully. Doing a head shot with your not so skilled character on his last hp was always a risk and I found it very exciting, something KotOR never really delivered. KotORs combat was mostly fun, but only seldom exciting.

 

And while combat is fun KotOR 2 should also add additional ways to solve quests in different ways, like they did with the Rancor in part 1. Then you could sometimes overload terminals but basically this was also about killing the enemies. As much as I enjoyed KotOR i think RPG-wise it was a step backwards. There have been great RPGs before which were more successful in putting the R in RPG.

[Vvornth]

KoTOR 2 would be a logical step for a completely new developer that needs to make a name for themselves. While the guys at Obsidian are all veterans, most non-RPG enthusiasts have no idea who Feargus & co are.

[Duende]

Would it be called a Biosidian production?

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Fallout: Combat was not too bad, but nothing all that special either. Get small gun skill very high, get sniper rifle, aim at eyes, win. OR Get lots of action points and perks that let you shoot fast, get turbo plasma rifle, unload 4 times as much ammo as your opponents, win.

Fallout's combat wasn't "great", but it had many options, something that can't be said of others. You could take various paths in terms of tagged skills, perks and weapons, and you could win with most, if not all, combinations. Are there one or two "ultimate" ways? Perhaps. Most games have one. Still, it was possible to come up with different characters with different abilities that could survive in combat. A large amount of options does that.

[mkreku]

KotOR was a fun game. It had an interesting setting (Star Wars), a great story, even greater voice actors and an incredible production value. It probably deserved all the hype and great reviews it got.

 

But what a lot of reviewers forgot was that the maps were very small, the game was actually very linear (yes, after a while you could choose planets/sides but that only changed the order of the missions) and the game was very easy. And it wasn't really a 3D game either. I can't possibly have been the only one who hated not being able to look up and down with the mouse? Who suffered from not being able to jump? Who felt almost claustrophobic in the way too confined level design?

 

These guys at Obsidian are obviously a very talented group of developers. Unfortunately for us PC gamers I've read that 75% of the computer game sales comes from consoles. KotOR's limitations comes mostly from it being developed for a console first and the PC afterwards (just like Deus Ex: Invisible War that turned out to be.. less than good). Because of economics and profits my guess is that Obsidian will continue in the console-flawed way of KotOR in their next project. And I wouldn't be surprised if it in fact turned out to be KotOR 2, considering how well that game sold.

 

My personal wish, though, would be for them to create a game with a free world like in Gothic/Gothic 2, physics like in Deus Ex: Invisible War/Far Cry and character development like in Wasteland/Fallout/Fallout 2 and an equally well-written story as in KotOR.

 

A guy can hope.

[Green Lantern]

If Obsidian is indeed working on KotoR2, I wonder if they will follow the game design of the original or go in different and perhaps more original tagent. Although most sequels tend to be "more of the same", I suspect that Obisidian may take a different route, given that this would be THE game that their new company would be evaluated upon.

[Uniikki]

Mmh, while I would rather Obsidian was not making a sequel to KotOR, it certainly could be interesting what they would do with it. I simply fear doing a sequel to such a linear game as KotOR would be seriously limiting. Not that it would have to be limiting, and there's a lot of talent at Obsidian, so I would still be hopeful even if they did. Far too many developers and authors, people in general, seemingly find fantasy as a genre to be limited to stereotypical high fantasy.

 

Regarding the KotOR combat, I initially practically hated it. You see, I was fooled, I thought the game had player combat. Instead it had these random combat animations that were triggered every time you encountered hostiles. Which happened a lot. To quote a review at Four Fat Chicks 'I'd just put down the controller, get a drink or a snack or go potty or what have you, and pick it up again once the fight was over.' Apparently many people enjoyed this, but my ability to suspend my disbelief was seriously tested and subsequently all disbelief was scrapped. I simply do not look for such experiences from gaming. If most other people prefer this kind of content over more traditional solutions, I am a bit unhappy because I fear there will be more rpgs with KotOR like lack of combat. Which pretty directly translates to games I will dislike to some degree.

 

Not to say KotOR didn't have its moments. Just that mostly they were overshadowed by linear and extremely simple gameplay. And to be perfectly honest, my strongly negative attitude towards the game has probably been amplified by the unending praise the game has gotten.

[Amentep]

If Obsidian is indeed working on KotoR2, I wonder if they will follow the game design of the original or go in different and perhaps more original tagent. Although most sequels tend to be "more of the same", I suspect that Obisidian may take a different route, given that this would be THE game that their new company would be evaluated upon.

The thing is I think there's room in a KotOR sequel to pave your own path while still keeping a lot of what the original game was about. To take the basic idea and give it an "Obsidian spin", so to say.

[triCritical]

Combat in KotOR wasn't bad... Combat in KotOR was cool. It had lightsabres for crying out loud...

You mean it had swords that looked like lightsabers. Considering, that swords and lightsabers are mechanically indifferent in this game, aside from a new feat selection, I would say that this was a step backwards in CRPG fencing. Afterall, the Bioware lightsabers where pretty much incapable of doing anything different in combat, with the exception of crystals for munckining, and tossing. But I could not use my lightsaber to cut a whole in walls to rescue pathetic jedi's instead of doing ridiculous plot devices like mini games.

 

The combat in KotOR, in fact the entire game, accomplished exactly what it set out to accomplish.

 

And what was that combat void of anything more innovative then what was done in games made 20 years ago? Oh, yeah I forgot about the cinematic fx. Anyhow, I really think Bioware should spend more time developing good combat for their games, rather then good looking combat considering that it is ubiquitous in their rather ROELPLAUYINGE shallow titles.

[Iolo]

I would prefer the sequel be its own story and not continue the story of the first game. Have some NPCs in it from the first game. Have Revan in there, maybe as a Jedi Academy instructor but one thing I didn't like about the first game was the background of your character being forced on you. In the new game, I'd prefer I choose it. Maybe make it an option to choose what the background of your character is.

[Mr. Teatime]

If it is KOTOR2 I'd suggest Obsidian look at Anachronox for inspiration for a console RPG, since it did everything that KOTOR tried to do 100 times better, better plot, better characters, a sense of humour, interesting mini games.....

[Iolo]

They should just do away with mini games entirely or make them purely optional. It should have been Carth or Calo who fired those guns on the ship, not Revan. That was a pretty bad idea in my opinion.

[Aeon]

the non linearity of Kotor wasn't in what order you did the quests but how you did the quests.

 

i personally liked the combat. at first i hated it, it seemed weird and ungainly. but after, i dunno, an hour into the game, i was loving it. and then even more when i got force powers.

 

the mini games were fine. i mean they were just mini games, swoop racing fits in star wars, and was done well. pazaak had its problems but it beat the s**t out of those annoying card games in Final Fantasy games. the gun turrets could have been improved, maybe by having a basic space flight sim there, although that would be a fair bit of work.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I don't understant why people diss the Final Fantasy card games. They were fun, and required some thinking. And having the right cards for the right moment.

[Iolo]

the non linearity of Kotor wasn't in what order you did the quests but how you did the quests.

 

i personally liked the combat. at first i hated it, it seemed weird and ungainly. but after, i dunno, an hour into the game, i was loving it. and then even more when i got force powers.

 

the mini games were fine. i mean they were just mini games, swoop racing fits in star wars, and was done well. pazaak had its problems but it beat the s**t out of those annoying card games in Final Fantasy games. the gun turrets could have been improved, maybe by having a basic space flight sim there, although that would be a fair bit of work.

I don't really recall there being that many choices in how to do quests. There was the good way to do and there was the evil way. Missing was a range of other choices in between. But I don't call that non linearity in my opinion. Morrowind is nonlinear but KOTOR really isn't.

[Menno]

They should just do away with mini games entirely or make them purely optional.  It should have been Carth or Calo who fired those guns on the ship, not Revan.  That was a pretty bad idea in my opinion.

In the name of Allah the Compassionate and the Merciful,

 

I think more mini-games are a good thing; but perhaps with a great deal more depth this time around.

 

There also should be less violence this time around; in the current world climate we should limit out children's exposure to extremely violent combat, whether real or imaginary.

 

Allah Akhbar!

[Phoenix]

The mini game was okay, although some peoples not good at it and keep complaining... So it should be all optional.

[Iolo]

The shooter mini game just seemed contrived and didn't fit the rest of the game very well. You go from using D20 stats and rules, as in the rest of the game, to using the player's reaction time. You also can't save the game while you are forced there so if you die at that point you may lose alot. They should have at least saved a specific autosave point before that began.

[Llyranor]

Well, I for one had some good fun playing the minigames. Sure, I wasn't addicted to them or anything, but I didn't hate them either. Maybe because I'm used to action games.

 

I think more minigames is cool. However, if it's necessary to progress in the story, it should be either ridiculously easy or avoidable.

[chaosprism]

I'd hardly think a sequel done by an entirely different company with an entirely different story would be repetitive... and besides, as long as someone's making Star Wars games (and you know they're gonna), they might as well be quality entertainment, right?

 

-Pax

I agree with you. KotOR was probably the best Star Wars game since X-Wing: Alliance. However, the Star Wars universe is not exactly open-ended. It consists of some races and some locations which you just HAVE to visit doing another KotOR. I also believe that Obsidian would make KotOR 2 different but they can't stray away too much from the path.

One thing is sure: A new scenario would be LESS repetitive than another RPG in a Star Wars scenario. And that is the pure and simple reason why I wouldn't prefer a KotOR 2 although it could be worse than that

Do they HAVE to to visit the same locations or do they do it simply because people WANT to visit them?

 

When you're making a game in pre-made world like star wars, you put it certain easily identifiable props so that people know what its about.

 

You couldnt envision a star wars game without a jedi or even a light sabre being used by at least one character, and you certainly couldnt do it without some facet of the force being there.

 

But thats not really a limitation, its only a guide, you could set it on a world that has no access to the force for some reason , are outside the galactic hyperspace routes.. maybe they get discovered and have some major impact.

 

Theres also time dates you have to worry about in a Evolved universe like that one, writesr of novels and probably also video game designers have to make their stories congruent with the universe, so you have to steer clear of certain time periods unless your creative efforts take into account major storyline threads. But thats a good thing, it makes the universe all the more plausable.

And theres no need to use the "parallel dimension" excuse to hide away from your story irregularities. (ie the "what if" type thing, what if ben kenobi slew darth in the battle that he died etc. though thats sort of been done to death recently (ever since red alert))

[chaosprism]

My personal wish, though, would be for them to create a game with a free world like in Gothic/Gothic 2, physics like in Deus Ex: Invisible War/Far Cry and character development like in Wasteland/Fallout/Fallout 2 and an equally well-written story as in KotOR.

 

A guy can hope.

Ditto, basically what you're asking for is a world something like VR promised way back when. A truly immersive world, i'm not sure if machines can even handle that sort of load (even high end).

 

Imagine walking to a stone quarry with something in the order of 5000 individual stones of various sizes and shapes, setting up some dynamite, lighting it and running.. turn to watch the dynamite explode and some 3000 stones gets thrown into the air and collide with the surrounding forest trees with all the physics involved.. I mean it gets mind blowing pretty quickly the amount of raw power needed.

 

The halflife2 engine looks good, with a clear distinction on big vast outdoor areas and complex internal ones, I'm hoping somebody uses the source2 engine to make some sort of D&D nirvana. (and hope not just a MMORPG, i'm a bit far from any potential server here)

 

And I so MUCH want to see a melee combat system where you block/parry and strike at variable angles (sort of like die by the sword but way better) True this becomes more orientated on the players reflexes and skills and less focused on stats (though all stats can affect how combat works (speed/strength of swing (str), recovery from shield hit etc (con), available angles (dex) , combat styles (int) for example )

 

The industry knows how risky new games are, theres the graves of many a good game that died from poor sales, thats why the producers only fork out the milestone amounts etc for games in known universes where they know theres a potential market.. Having said that though theres ALWAYS room for a truly GREAT game in its own universe, but it DOES have to try harder in nearly every aspect.

Havok have some really great physics routines with angular momentum, mass collisions, actuators etc that has been implemented in many games.. so far only really as a good looking gimmick, however theres a truly outstanding game out there waiting to be made, something truly legendary and memorable, I hope we all live to see witness to it.