How to make rogues more ''fun'' to play

[morrow1nd]

Hey guys,

 

I was wondering if its possible to make assassin/melee rogues more fun to play

 

 

Easy mechanic solutions such as:

 

 

- Evasion : %10 incoming attacks have a chance to miss or reduced chance to hit the rogue

 

 

- Rogues can lay traps in combat 2/per rest (with reduced accuracy ofc..since trappin is their main role, also for rangers)

 

 

- shadowing beyond is 2/per encounter (please? )

 

 

- Backstab: also triggers for blinded characters (x1,5 dmg instead of 2 )

 

 

So what do you think of these changes?

 

And do you guys have something else in mind which makes assassin style rogues more fun to play ?

 

 

 

 

PS: Can anyone mod these btw ? xD

Edited April 15, 2015 by morrow1nd

[jones092201@gmail.com]

Why don't you find rogue fun as it is? Are you getting knocked out too quick? As long as you get an affliction on a target, you going to have the increased damage bump.

 

Also, the rogues main function isn't traps.

Edited April 15, 2015 by jones092201@gmail.com

[Starthief]

The melee rogue I added to my current party as an afterthought is a ridiculous single-target killer and is my most fun and active character right now.  He's also the only one to have been one-shotted in combat, but I was taking a risk both with his glass-cannon build and the tactics I was using in that fight.

I send everyone else except him to attack, then I run him around the back and flank and he starts yelling enthusiastically and scoring brain-exploding criticals with his sabres.

Ranged rogues probably do more consistent, steady damage and are a lot less interesting; you just keep them at the back and let them shoot stuff.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Starthief

[rjshae]

My ranged rogue PC has the highest cumulative damage total in the party, and I'm not even laying traps. He's been a lot of fun to play, so I'm unclear why the class needs to be improved.

[Odd Hermit]

Shadowing Beyond 2/encounter would be really quite cheesy for solo tactics, but OTOH backstab will be awful until it is per encounter. I would be for it becoming per encounter if it came to a vote I suppose.

 

The others don't seem necessary.

[jones092201@gmail.com]

My rogue is 18 perception/17 resolve....it gives a good deflection, which helps you survive, and i still do good damage.

It's not optimized, but it works well, if you're worried about staying up.

[MadDemiurg]

Shadowing Beyond 2/encounter would be really quite cheesy for solo tactics, but OTOH backstab will be awful until it is per encounter. I would be for it becoming per encounter if it came to a vote I suppose.

 

The others don't seem necessary.

Solution would be:

 

Shadowing beyond 2(maybe 1)/encounter. Doesn't work if there are no other party members standing.

[Climhazzard]

In my opinion the problem is that rogue, and a few other melee classes, are basically auto attack classes after using one or two per encounter abilities, which isn't to interesting.  I think pretty much all melee class abilities should be per encounter, and have more uses than they currently do, which wouldn't make them as interesting as the caster classes, but would make them more interesting than they are now.

[Antless]

Given how much damage rogues can deal when attacking the right enemy at the right time and how bad (and fatal) their pathfinding can be, micromanaging them seems to me like an absolute requirement already, even without ever using any abilities of their own.

[Psychevore]

 

Fun.

[RunningWolf]

Rogues have the best single target dps as it is. Giving them even more in that department is retarded. Not as much as laying traps in combat tho.

Edited April 16, 2015 by RunningWolf

[Rosveen]

In my opinion the problem is that rogue, and a few other melee classes, are basically auto attack classes after using one or two per encounter abilities, which isn't to interesting. I think pretty much all melee class abilities should be per encounter, and have more uses than they currently do, which wouldn't make them as interesting as the caster classes, but would make them more interesting than they are now.

I don't look at individual characters when I play, I look at the whole team. Is the team fun to play? What's the overall team level of micromanagement? I don't mind having some people mostly autoattack. My rogue isn't on her own, she relies on others to set up sneak attack conditions for her, so I count caster spells as an element of rogue strategy. Then there's positioning to flank people. It's not your typical vanish-and-backstab rogue, but it's still fun to me.

[InfiniteEternity]

My ranged rogue PC has the highest cumulative damage total in the party, and I'm not even laying traps. He's been a lot of fun to play, so I'm unclear why the class needs to be improved.

If you read the title of the thread, he wrote "more FUN to play"

 

fun =/= balance.

[Starthief]

Balance contributes to fun.  See all the threads about how the game is too easy (or alternately, too hard).  Those are people who would have more fun if the balance was different.

[Exoduss]

Want more fun playing rogue? Go play AC or something , rogues are like only class in PoE that is fine as it is ( more than 1 way to build them , all of those ways works very well , they deliver bigest damage on single target in party )

[Veynn]

 

Satisfied with my DW Rogue. Pretty OP even on hard. I just love seeing too many crits.

[Zenicetus]

In my opinion the problem is that rogue, and a few other melee classes, are basically auto attack classes after using one or two per encounter abilities, which isn't to interesting.

 

The way I see it, the Rogue's "ability" is speed and movement, not so much the per-encounter or per-rest abilities. Those are just there for attacking primary enemies, then it's all move and stab in synergy with the caster debuffs. I already spend enough time managing the caster spell slots. I'm enjoying having one melee character where I don't have to do much of that.

 

Also, I don't think of auto-attack as being boring, because a Rogue working melee sneak attacks will kill most targets very quickly. Then it's time to move again. It's only boring if I'm using a Rogue with a ranged weapon, where he's basically a fixed turret. Instead, I'm having a blast with my melee Rogue, dancing and slicing his way through the battle zone.

 

The only problem with the Rogue that I can see, is that the Backstab talent is available right off the bat, and it encourages people to think in old IE engine terms about Rogues. Invisibility doesn't last long enough to use it very effectively, and the uses are limited. There is also an entirely different stealth mechanic based on high points in stealth to delay the discovery timer, combined with speed buffs so you can move very quickly for an attack from stealth with the sneak attack bonus. It's like the devs couldn't decide which mechanic to support. I wouldn't mind if Backstab and Invisibility went away completely, although I suppose that's not a popular view.

[billythegreat]

Want more fun playing rogue? Go play AC or something , rogues are like only class in PoE that is fine as it is ( more than 1 way to build them , all of those ways works very well , they deliver bigest damage on single target in party )

Erm no. No individual stealth for the rogue =/= fine as it is.

[Zenicetus]

Erm no. No individual stealth for the rogue =/= fine as it is.

 

Well, you have Invisibility on a limited basis. But the real "individual stealth" in this game is based on extending the discovery timer in party stealth mode. So an additional mode isn't really needed (IMO).

 

You just need a character that can work the timer better than the rest of the party. Take your Rogue, give him or her max points in Stealth, and add some + Stealth trinkets like rings and capes. Now that character's yellow discovery circle in stealth mode is slowed way down, compared to the rest of the party. That's your individual stealth mode. To maximize the ability, add as many speed buffs as you can (ideally, Boots of Speed), so you can run into a room solo, and loot or kill before you're discovered. 

 

It's all running on a timer, which makes this different than a "perma-stealth-until-combat" Rogue in IE games, but it does work. 

[Exoduss]

Individual Stealth absence is a flaw in game design not in rogue class , tbh a Watcher Rogue was the most fun character i played in this game might been because he was ranged glasscanon but also was OP duelist due to rogue and watcher abilities , i won many fights with only that char remaining 

 

Edit : Shadowing Beyond 2 per encounter would be very nice but because of the "solo mode" it will never happen 

Edited April 16, 2015 by Exoduss

[Daemonjax]

Well, shadowing beyond could be made per encounter with a mod.

 

I'm sure we'll see it soon enough.

[Valeris]

Well, shadowing beyond could be made per encounter with a mod.

 

I'm sure we'll see it soon enough.

There is a guy on nexus who already made wizard´s arcane veil ability "per encounter" (and a "modal"-version, too).

 

Since today he has not yet answered  to a few requests made by me and others to do the same for shadwoy beyond.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Valeris

[trisyln]

I made my rogue with the following stats: 

Might 18 Constitution 10 Dexterity 17 Perception 14 Intelligence 13 Resolve 5

 

And then I went a head and just used the console to give it 20 resolve.  The defenses were too low and the way the game AI works, enemies would quickly target the rogue due to low resolve compared to the other (tank) melee.  While I don't really like cheating, it was my third POTD play through and I wanted a different comp than loading up on mages, druids, and ciphers and to use some of the cool melee weapons in the game.  I chose this approach after attempting to load the rogue up on different defense pots, but few seemed to really make the rogue have the survivability of a ranged class.  I do think some of the rogues talent-related survivability does help and after about level 8-9, there are dramatic increases.  Some of this I think comes from much greater kill times at that level as well.

 

I like some of the ideas above to make the rogue more "fun", which I really think is just making it have a bit more survivability in melee.  An enhanced threat mechanic for tank classes or higher DR armor might cover the need.  Having enemies strategically target my lowest resolve player in melee just made me systematically avoid having a melee other than a tank in heavy armor at all for my first few play throughs.