Benevolent = tough luck, you won't get this powerful artifact?

[Daemonjax]

They have spider heads for faces.

 

That alone is good enough to kill it without asking questions.

 

I have a fear of being bit by spiders IRL, which causes me to kill them on sight... I guess it translates to spidery things in games, too.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Daemonjax

[mph]

One thing to remember is that PoE is the first game in a series, so things like this can - and, I hope, will - come back if you carry over your save. Perhaps that NPC will one day return and give you something better. Or help with a quest. Or betray you for some really interesting reasons.

Edited April 12, 2015 by mph

[Grand_Commander13]

I have Deception 2, but also Honest 2. I think it cancelled each other out, so the Vithrack believed me.

Clearly you need more Bad Guy training.

 

Man, why isn't Kreia in this game? Kids don't even know these days. We need her now more than ever.

[Nachel]

@OP So what?

 

A "Benevolent" in a line of dialogue shouldn't matter to you if you're craving for loot and/or a fight, and if you are roleplaying it should only matter to you in as much as it dispels any ambiguity about the intent of the line. Personalities only open up new options, they never take away from your choice, and you should certainly never feel compelled to choose the lines with their labels in them just because of that label.

 

You make that choice, and you give up on a big fight (and so loot) with a defenseless, adorable and all around huggable vithrack and his/her bros, who get to live another day to spread their loving webs and eggs and you give up on a seemingly powerful artefact; you attack them, and they die, you loot their horribly mangled and yet surprisingly accusing lifeless bodies and you get a seemingly powerful artefact. Choice, consequence, risk, reward, your character's morality, roleplay, munchkin, you know, that kind of stuff.

[Stun]

Oh! It's the weapon from the Stormwall Gorge dungeon from the beta.

 

And here I thought there was some quest I missed that forces you to make some tough moral decision. Yeah, no. Unless by "benevolent" you mean "I'm a member of the Ethical Treatment of Giant Insect Monsters", this one is a no brainer. You're in a dungeon. You find a den of spiders. They attack you. You kill them, then you go after their leader. You kill It. You get a spear. And then you get to customize that spear. You win. Loot.

 

The alternative is, you spare the leader, you don't get the spear but you leave that dungeon with that rosy, satisfied feeling that you did your part in making the world a better place....for monsters.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Stun

[Leferd]

I never played through this level during the beta, but since it's an Engwithan ruin --aren't we supposed to stay clear of them...according to gameworld laws? Are there any faction repercussions for trespassing?

[Stun]

One thing to remember is that PoE is the first game in a series, so things like this can - and, I hope, will - come back if you carry over your save. Perhaps that NPC will one day return and give you something better. Or help with a quest. Or betray you for some really interesting reasons.

Yeah, assuming they take the modern Bioware/CDProjekt route with the save imports.

 

But if they take the Baldurs Gate route, It'll be more like this:

 

Vithrack: Grrr!

You: Oh Hi! I remember You. Aren't you supposed to be dead?

Vithrack: Grrr. The past hardly matters. Grrr. Do a quest for me, will you?

Edited April 12, 2015 by Stun

[FalloutBoy]

The item is good, but by that time in the game you probably have a dozen weapons in your stash that are just as good.

[Rosveen]

Oh! It's the weapon from the Stormwall Gorge dungeon from the beta.

 

And here I thought there was some quest I missed that forces you to make some tough moral decision. Yeah, no. Unless by "benevolent" you mean "I'm a member of the Ethical Treatment of Giant Insect Monsters", this one is a no brainer. You're in a dungeon. You find a den of spiders. They attack you. You kill them, then you go after their leader. You kill It. You get a spear. And then you get to customize that spear. You win. Loot.

 

The alternative is, you spare the leader, you don't get the spear but you leave that dungeon with that rosy, satisfied feeling that you did your part in making the world a better place....for monsters.

Plenty of kith try to kill me too, but I still strive to help kith whenever possible. This vithrack did not wish me harm, it only cared for its young and survival of the colony. Were there any signs that the colony is a danger to kith setlements? They live in an Engwithan ruin, kith have no business there and enter at their own risk. Many of these "monsters" live in seclusion and rarely harm anyone save for a few unlucky adventurers.

[Stun]

Why do people keep bringing up the fact that it's an Engwithan ruin? (as if monsters lurking inside Engwithan ruins are somehow sacred, innocent little kittens). Ok, So you're not supposed to be in there. Fine. Vithrack aren't supposed to be in there either. And as a general rule of thumb, Tribe leaders who don't wish you harm probably shouldn't send the colony out to attack you on sight, no-questions-asked, simply because you decided to enter a ruin, that doesn't belong to them either, to explore it.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Stun

[sparklecat]

I never played through this level during the beta, but since it's an Engwithan ruin --aren't we supposed to stay clear of them...according to gameworld laws? Are there any faction repercussions for trespassing?

Not if you don't get caught!

 

My generally lawful character figured she pretty much had to go into some try and fix things in the Dyrwood, but she followed the "don't loot the ruins" law, at least.

[omegabet]

Do I need a quest to craft it? I think I have every part of it.

[Sonntam]

Why do people keep bringing up the fact that it's an Engwithan ruin? (as if monsters lurking inside Engwithan ruins are somehow sacred, innocent little kittens). Ok, So you're not supposed to be in there. Fine. Vithrack aren't supposed to be in there either. And as a general rule of thumb, Tribe leaders who don't wish you harm probably shouldn't send the colony out to attack you on sight, no-questions-asked, simply because you decided to enter a ruin, that doesn't belong to them either, to explore it.

 

What kind of people do you think enter the ruins? Normally, looters. Are looters going to talk things through and let someone go with the artifact? That is rather unlikely. So why would the Vithrack risk themself to talk to you, if they could overpower you and/or make you leave?

[Stun]

Vithrack are ciphers/psionisists. They don't need to talk to you or 'debate you'. They can determine your intent by just reading your thoughts.

 

This particular Vithrack decided that sending the entire hive out to murder you was a good idea. That's called an 'error of judgment'. Why should even a benevolent leaning person reward such a mistake by sparing that monster's life? Especially since the ruin itself seems to be siding with you (Literally. The stone heads on the walls talk to you. They call you hero. they send you on a mission that sees you killing that Vithrack and retrieving its spear.)

Edited April 13, 2015 by Stun

[gkathellar]

@Stun - They could be the Greek definition of hero (strong dude), mind. And I dunno if talking stone heads are necessarily good moral arbiters.

 

That said, yes, as far as my Shieldbearer paladin was concerned, the laws of hospitality dictate a choice offered between sword and bread. When the Vithrack came at me sword first, it made clear how it intended to treat not just my Watcher, but any less capable kith who might stumble upon it.

[Sonntam]

Vithrack are ciphers/psionisists. They don't need to talk to you or 'debate you'. They can determine your intent by just reading your thoughts.

 

This particular Vithrack decided that sending the entire hive out to murder you was a good idea. That's called an 'error of judgment'. Why should even a benevolent leaning person reward such a mistake by sparing that monster's life? Especially since the ruin itself seems to be siding with you (Literally. The stone heads on the walls talk to you. They call you hero. they send you on a mission that sees you killing that Vithrack and retrieving its spear.)

 

I'm so totally not trusting Engwithans and their constructs in questions of moral judgement. Engwithans have done plenty of terrible things, after all.

 

And considering you are here to retrieve the artifact and kill the monster that stole it... well, the "hero"'s intent sounds pretty murderous to me.

[Gallenger]

I let him go because of the prime directive  

 

It didn't bother me that it meant I missed out on the item.  I'm sure I missed plenty of other items! lol. 

[archangel979]

 

If this is the person I think you are talking about, I don't see how it is a good thing to not kill IT. It is a monster with no redeeming qualities that will down the line cost who knows how many human lives.

Keeping the creature alive I don't see as benevolent but more question of balance of natural order. Someone that cares not for individual life but greater picture of nature would not kill that creature.

 

It's still a sentient being. The Vithrack have an advanced civilization and are pretty okay with going out of the way of other races. You can't fault them for attacking when you encroach on their territory. 

 

Considering the little birth races of the Vithrack and how other kith races just love going to war with each other... can't really blame them for not even trying to build communications. 

 

And this Vithrack in particular was fighting for survival of their children. No "redeemable qualities" indeed.

 

Where do you get this info about their civilization and being that sentient? The way they were presented was that one creature being able to have simple communication and asking you to let him go after 30+ spiders tried to murder you before. I have absolutely no clue if they are going to really be dangerous or not but since all spiders I ever ran into just tried to murder me, I got no reason to believe they are also not going to murder other humans down the line. Edited April 13, 2015 by archangel979

[Nachel]

@archangel979 I think most of the information Sonntam has on vithracks is gathered from encounters with vithracks in Caed Nua (Lvl 12). If you do take the time to know them they can be quite chatty.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Nachel

[archangel979]

@archangel979 I think most of the information Sonntam has on vithracks is gathered from encounters with vithracks in Caed Nua (Lvl 12). If you do take the time to know them they can be quite chatty.

I have not done any levels of Caed Nua yet but they did attack my Keep. Another reason to exterminate on sight, devs can give whatever descriptions they want. I play with all the helpers off and choose good guy options when they make sense not based on what is says afterwards. Edited April 13, 2015 by archangel979

[Sphecida]

I'm playing as a benevolent character and don't mind missing out on the shiny thing. It means that I'm tough enough to win my battles without ill-gotten gains. I like it that one's disposition has consequences. I love being clever enough to talk my way into more interesting resolutions rather than just killing everything.

[Sonntam]

 

 

If this is the person I think you are talking about, I don't see how it is a good thing to not kill IT. It is a monster with no redeeming qualities that will down the line cost who knows how many human lives.

Keeping the creature alive I don't see as benevolent but more question of balance of natural order. Someone that cares not for individual life but greater picture of nature would not kill that creature.

 

It's still a sentient being. The Vithrack have an advanced civilization and are pretty okay with going out of the way of other races. You can't fault them for attacking when you encroach on their territory. 

 

Considering the little birth races of the Vithrack and how other kith races just love going to war with each other... can't really blame them for not even trying to build communications. 

 

And this Vithrack in particular was fighting for survival of their children. No "redeemable qualities" indeed.

 

Where do you get this info about their civilization and being that sentient? The way they were presented was that one creature being able to have simple communication and asking you to let him go after 30+ spiders tried to murder you before. I have absolutely no clue if they are going to really be dangerous or not but since all spiders I ever ran into just tried to murder me, I got no reason to believe they are also not going to murder other humans down the line.

 

I got a Guidebook with lore on all the races, so I use that. Also one can read up on Vithrack in backer updates.

 

AND I also talked to the Vithrack in Caed Nua and they were rather dope. Like with all races, some are ****, some are reasonable, others are just downright sweet and nice. So I don't feel one can just label them "monsters" and leave it at it. 

[Volourn]

"And considering you are here to retrieve the artifact and kill the monster that stole it... well, the "hero"'s intent sounds pretty murderous to me."

 

Wait. You are hunting down a murderous thief. What that is called is justice.

[Sonntam]

"And considering you are here to retrieve the artifact and kill the monster that stole it... well, the "hero"'s intent sounds pretty murderous to me."

 

Wait. You are hunting down a murderous thief. What that is called is justice.

 

You both are damn looters. There is no justice in here, unless Glanfathans come in and slaughter everyone.

[gkathellar]

I got a Guidebook with lore on all the races, so I use that. Also one can read up on Vithrack in backer updates.

AND I also talked to the Vithrack in Caed Nua and they were rather dope. Like with all races, some are ****, some are reasonable, others are just downright sweet and nice. So I don't feel one can just label them "monsters" and leave it at it. 

 

Oh, absolutely. They have to be taken on an individual basis.

 

And this one, as an individual, doesn't even bother to warn visitors that it has no hospitality. It just tries to murder anyone who stumbles into its territory with a wave of spidery death. That seems problematic.

 

 

"And considering you are here to retrieve the artifact and kill the monster that stole it... well, the "hero"'s intent sounds pretty murderous to me."

 

Wait. You are hunting down a murderous thief. What that is called is justice.

 

You both are damn looters. There is no justice in here, unless Glanfathans come in and slaughter everyone.

 

And they have the right to do that why, again? Because the Engwithans asked them to? I feel like there might be a contradiction in place here.