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1.04 probably before Wednesday would be my guess.

 

1.05 around the end of the month/first week of May. They said 1.05 is a big patch so I imagine it will take longer to do as well as taking more time to go through QA since it will be a large patch.

 

1.03 was released on April 3rd I believe, 1.04 will be a good 10+ days after that one and since 1.04 isn't that big of a patch it stands to reason that 1.05 being significantly larger will take more time.

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They have been talking about it for a while, you can do a search for it.

 

They specifically said 1.05 will be a big patch with some balance changes and that they've been listening to the community specifically about balance.

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They have been talking about it for a while, you can do a search for it.

 

They specifically said 1.05 will be a big patch with some balance changes and that they've been listening to the community specifically about balance.

Past experience tells me when they say "balance changes" they mean "nerfs galore".

 

Rather than crippling existing characters, which people have invested time and effort in (including PotD, Iron mode etc.), by ruining their abilities that are somehow "imbalanced" (in a single-player game, yeah right), how about buffing classes that are currently made of suck and plainly uninspiring (looking at you, paladin)?

 

TL;DR: instead of weakening good classes, how about strengthening bad classes? That way everyone wins!

Edited by Lord Vicious

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They have already started talking about 1.5? Links to these posts?

It was the patch notes for 1.04, where Darren mentioned it...:

"The team is now working on patch 1.05, and only critical fixes will be added to 1.04..." 

 

And then there is this article:

http://www.shacknews.com/article/89004/obsidian-ceo-discusses-pillars-of-eternity-its-early-success-and-its-first-expansion

 

A cool interview with Obsidian CEO Feargus Urquhart : )


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Any chance we can see tentative patch notes for 1.5? I'm really hoping it includes improvements to the AI to make the game more challenging and more varied battles (most fights are a bit samey for me now, no surprises from the enemies, nothing to force me to change tactics). Plus improved itemization would be nice.

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They have been talking about it for a while, you can do a search for it.

 

They specifically said 1.05 will be a big patch with some balance changes and that they've been listening to the community specifically about balance.

Past experience tells me when they say "balance changes" they mean "nerfs galore".

 

Rather than crippling existing characters, which people have invested time and effort in (including PotD, Iron mode etc.), by ruining their abilities that are somehow "imbalanced" (in a single-player game, yeah right), how about buffing classes that are currently made of suck and plainly uninspiring (looking at you, paladin)?

 

TL;DR: instead of weakening good classes, how about strengthening bad classes? That way everyone wins!

 

 

I agree with the general sentiment of buffing bad classes rather than nerfing good ones, but why is it illegitimate to balance in one way, based on the argument that it doesn't need balancing in a single-player game, yet legitimate to balance in another? Your argument makes no sense. If you said that balance didn't matter at all in a single-player game, you'd have a point - I'd disagree and argue against that point, but it'd be there - but first suggesting that imbalance isn't a thing in a single-player game and then call on balancing is nonsense.

 

Any chance we can see tentative patch notes for 1.5? I'm really hoping it includes improvements to the AI to make the game more challenging and more varied battles (most fights are a bit samey for me now, no surprises from the enemies, nothing to force me to change tactics). Plus improved itemization would be nice.

 

1.04 isn't even released yet, so I would not hold my breath for anything even resembling solid information on 1.05 until after 1.04 has hit, and even then it'll probably take a few days at least. I doubt AI improvements would really help you in the "combat is samey"-department, though. Yes, the AI should be smarter, but the samey thing is systemic.


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They have been talking about it for a while, you can do a search for it.

 

They specifically said 1.05 will be a big patch with some balance changes and that they've been listening to the community specifically about balance.

Past experience tells me when they say "balance changes" they mean "nerfs galore".

 

Rather than crippling existing characters, which people have invested time and effort in (including PotD, Iron mode etc.), by ruining their abilities that are somehow "imbalanced" (in a single-player game, yeah right), how about buffing classes that are currently made of suck and plainly uninspiring (looking at you, paladin)?

 

TL;DR: instead of weakening good classes, how about strengthening bad classes? That way everyone wins!

 

 

I agree with the general sentiment of buffing bad classes rather than nerfing good ones, but why is it illegitimate to balance in one way, based on the argument that it doesn't need balancing in a single-player game, yet legitimate to balance in another? Your argument makes no sense. If you said that balance didn't matter at all in a single-player game, you'd have a point - I'd disagree and argue against that point, but it'd be there - but first suggesting that imbalance isn't a thing in a single-player game and then call on balancing is nonsense.

 

Any chance we can see tentative patch notes for 1.5? I'm really hoping it includes improvements to the AI to make the game more challenging and more varied battles (most fights are a bit samey for me now, no surprises from the enemies, nothing to force me to change tactics). Plus improved itemization would be nice.

 

1.04 isn't even released yet, so I would not hold my breath for anything even resembling solid information on 1.05 until after 1.04 has hit, and even then it'll probably take a few days at least. I doubt AI improvements would really help you in the "combat is samey"-department, though. Yes, the AI should be smarter, but the samey thing is systemic.

 

 

My line of thinking was better AI may mean more surprises for us. EG. Suddenly all the enemy ranged (archers and mage) target my Wizard, making me have to change tactics quickly, making combat more interesting. But I do get what you mean re systemic and agree. I really do miss the epic mage duels from BG2, fantastic fun :)

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They have been talking about it for a while, you can do a search for it.

 

They specifically said 1.05 will be a big patch with some balance changes and that they've been listening to the community specifically about balance.

Past experience tells me when they say "balance changes" they mean "nerfs galore".

 

Rather than crippling existing characters, which people have invested time and effort in (including PotD, Iron mode etc.), by ruining their abilities that are somehow "imbalanced" (in a single-player game, yeah right), how about buffing classes that are currently made of suck and plainly uninspiring (looking at you, paladin)?

 

TL;DR: instead of weakening good classes, how about strengthening bad classes? That way everyone wins!

 

 

I agree with the general sentiment of buffing bad classes rather than nerfing good ones, but why is it illegitimate to balance in one way, based on the argument that it doesn't need balancing in a single-player game, yet legitimate to balance in another? Your argument makes no sense. If you said that balance didn't matter at all in a single-player game, you'd have a point - I'd disagree and argue against that point, but it'd be there - but first suggesting that imbalance isn't a thing in a single-player game and then call on balancing is nonsense.

 

 

I think you missed his point entirely.. and he makes a good one. Instead of nitpicking what he said in parentheses, please read his post again and try to take it in context.

 

Instead of nerfing classes, buff the weak ones. This can work for singleplayer games, since it's only YOU playing and other people playing other classes will not care as much as in multiplayer games (see guildwars 2 forum flooded at the moment with turret engineer nerf posts and everyone calling for a nerf except people playing a turret engineer). How many people are calling for class nerfs in singleplayer game forums? Sorry if I made this sound too simplistic, but this way it can be understood.

 

Most importantly with 50+ hours in your character will not be gimped all of a sudden (especially in POTD).

 

So I wholeheartedly agree that this approach is better. Don't nerf classes, buff the weak ones.

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They have been talking about it for a while, you can do a search for it.

 

They specifically said 1.05 will be a big patch with some balance changes and that they've been listening to the community specifically about balance.

Past experience tells me when they say "balance changes" they mean "nerfs galore".

 

Rather than crippling existing characters, which people have invested time and effort in (including PotD, Iron mode etc.), by ruining their abilities that are somehow "imbalanced" (in a single-player game, yeah right), how about buffing classes that are currently made of suck and plainly uninspiring (looking at you, paladin)?

 

TL;DR: instead of weakening good classes, how about strengthening bad classes? That way everyone wins!

 

 

I agree with the general sentiment of buffing bad classes rather than nerfing good ones, but why is it illegitimate to balance in one way, based on the argument that it doesn't need balancing in a single-player game, yet legitimate to balance in another? Your argument makes no sense. If you said that balance didn't matter at all in a single-player game, you'd have a point - I'd disagree and argue against that point, but it'd be there - but first suggesting that imbalance isn't a thing in a single-player game and then call on balancing is nonsense.

 

 

I think you missed his point entirely.. and he makes a good one. Instead of nitpicking what he said in parentheses, please read his post again and try to take it in context.

 

Instead of nerfing classes, buff the weak ones. This can work for singleplayer games, since it's only YOU playing and other people playing other classes will not care as much as in multiplayer games (see guildwars 2 forum flooded at the moment with turret engineer nerf posts and everyone calling for a nerf except people playing a turret engineer). How many people are calling for class nerfs in singleplayer game forums? Sorry if I made this sound too simplistic, but this way it can be understood.

 

Most importantly with 50+ hours in your character will not be gimped all of a sudden (especially in POTD).

 

So I wholeheartedly agree that this approach is better. Don't nerf classes, buff the weak ones.

 

 

I didn't miss his point, I agree with the conclusion. I questioned the logic, because there was none.

 

You'd know that if you had read my post.


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I didn't miss his point, I agree with the conclusion. I questioned the logic, because there was none.

 

You'd know that if you had read my post.

 

 

 

-edit for context

 

In multiplayer if a class is OP in PvE / PvP - thats it. Time to go to the forums and call for a nerf unless you are the one playing that class.

 

For singleplayer - if your class is OP you can just bump up the difficulty slider for PvE if thats what you want to do. There is no PvP. People will go to the forums and just shrug that you're playing an OP class but they will not rage and demand your class is nerfed. Because your gameplay is not affecting them they don't care.

 

 

So when a developer nerfs your class in singleplayer = you will be unsatisfied. People that play other classes will not care.

 

When a developer nerfs your class in multiplayer = you will be unsatisfied. All other people will be satisfied.

 

Buffing weak classes in singleplayer = everybody is satisfied.

 

 

Fueled by multiplayer it's an industry standard to nerf classes soon as they are viewed as OP - with plethora of class balance updates which increase chances of making things worse instead. The solution here is simple - you could treat single player class balance differently then multiplayer and get more customer satisfaction in the process. They are different beasts and should be treated as such, especially when there is much to gain for both developers and customers (not to go into other factors that support this separation further like multiplayer characters being by design never ending, immersion, content/replayability and differences in support lifespan..)

 

So..now with that in context "Instead of nerfing classes, buff the weak ones." - I say yes. Oh our obsidian overlords, yes.

Edited by Beovuk

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I didn't miss his point, I agree with the conclusion. I questioned the logic, because there was none.

 

Just to reiterate the already eloquently exposed "point" which you so sorely missed:

 

Single-player game is not the same as multi-player game.

 

For instance:

 

1. What other players do in their games does not affect your gameplay in single-player, as opposed to multi-player;

 

2. In multi-player you play 1 character; in party-based single-player you play several characters at the same time (up to 6 in PoE).

 

Therefore, nerfing classes in single-player only frustrates people playing those classes, without any corresponding benefit for people playing other classes. In fact, these other people are also negatively affected, because the nerfed classes may include their favourite NPCs/adventurers.

 

However, buffing "weak" classes (as opposed to nerfing "strong" ones) has a tangible benefit of not only satisfying people currently playing these classes, but also making the classes more attractive to other players that might want to try them out (at least by including an NPC in their party).

 

In short

 

Multi-player nerfs: win-lose

 

Single-player nerfs: lose-lose

 

Single-player buffs: win-win

Edited by Lord Vicious
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Any idea when will 1.04 be officially released???

We are looking into releasing it tomorrow, but it may not go out until Wednesday or Thursday.

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Therefore, nerfing classes in single-player only frustrates people playing those classes, without any corresponding benefit for people playing other classes. In fact, these other people are also negatively affected, because the nerfed classes may include their favourite NPCs/adventurers.

 

Not necessarily. If the game is too easy for you on highest difficulty settings because you picked the wrong class then you will welcome a nerf.

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In short

 

Multi-player nerfs: win-lose

 

Single-player nerfs: lose-lose

 

Single-player buffs: win-win

 

 

I'm not sure I would call a SP nerf a lose/lose and a buff a win/win. numbers creep is a serious issue for any game, that wants to expand or maybe become a series at some point (with the potential to take your old save games with you e.g.). so I'd rather prefer a singular nerf to an op/out-of-balance class or ability, than a system wide +1 to anybody else.

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In short

 

Multi-player nerfs: win-lose

 

Single-player nerfs: lose-lose

 

Single-player buffs: win-win

 

 

I'm not sure I would call a SP nerf a lose/lose and a buff a win/win. numbers creep is a serious issue for any game, that wants to expand or maybe become a series at some point (with the potential to take your old save games with you e.g.). so I'd rather prefer a singular nerf to an op/out-of-balance class or ability, than a system wide +1 to anybody else.

 

 

Then there's the issue of a particularly more powerful class turning it into a "must have" for high difficulty games rather than people picking what they enjoy. 

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Any idea when will 1.04 be officially released???

We are looking into releasing it tomorrow, but it may not go out until Wednesday or Thursday.

 

We know how this works from Beta. When translated into real English this means next week :p

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In short

 

Multi-player nerfs: win-lose

 

Single-player nerfs: lose-lose

 

Single-player buffs: win-win

 

 

Lets just go with this way of class balance for the sake of argument.

 

We start with a few assumptions:

All encounters are balanced per difficulty for all classes.

Some classes are over balanced, so you start buffing the rest.

Maybe you over buff, and now you have to buff the previous classes?

Numbers and powers will eventually inflate out of control.

It makes much more sense to simply nerf an overly powerful skill or class.

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Any idea when will 1.04 be officially released???

We are looking into releasing it tomorrow, but it may not go out until Wednesday or Thursday.

 

 

Still coming out today, or is Friday more likely at this point?

 

In short

 

Multi-player nerfs: win-lose

 

Single-player nerfs: lose-lose

 

Single-player buffs: win-win

 

This is tantamount to saying "balance in single player games is bad". Or "balance in single player games should only ever be accomplished by making the game easier", which is the exact same thing as saying "balance is bad" because you cannot balance a scale by adding weight only to one side. That's ridiculous. Either you want a balanced game, in which case buffs and nerfs have to be on the table - or you hate balance in single player games. Which is an opinion you're welcome to hold, but I (and many others) will fundamentally disagree with you. I want to play a well-crafted game with interesting choices and challenges, thanks. Not a game in which the "best" class and the "best" build and the "best" strategy are very quickly figured out and the only way to have a challenge is to self-impose it. 

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This is tantamount to saying "balance in single player games is bad". Or "balance in single player games should only ever be accomplished by making the game easier", which is the exact same thing as saying "balance is bad" because you cannot balance a scale by adding weight only to one side. That's ridiculous. Either you want a balanced game, in which case buffs and nerfs have to be on the table - or you hate balance in single player games. Which is an opinion you're welcome to hold, but I (and many others) will fundamentally disagree with you. I want to play a well-crafted game with interesting choices and challenges, thanks. Not a game in which the "best" class and the "best" build and the "best" strategy are very quickly figured out and the only way to have a challenge is to self-impose it. 

 

 

I think balancing in a single-player game should focus on making as many classes/abilities/spells as possible useful in some way.

That doesn't mean that everything has to play the same or be equally effective - far from it.

Just that there should be some clear reason to exist for all of them.

It can also make sense to remove/nerf obvious exploits, since they will reduce options for players that don't want to cheese their way through the game or make other abilities seem useless and weak in comparison.

Edited by El Zoido

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This is tantamount to saying "balance in single player games is bad". Or "balance in single player games should only ever be accomplished by making the game easier", which is the exact same thing as saying "balance is bad" because you cannot balance a scale by adding weight only to one side. That's ridiculous. Either you want a balanced game, in which case buffs and nerfs have to be on the table - or you hate balance in single player games. Which is an opinion you're welcome to hold, but I (and many others) will fundamentally disagree with you. I want to play a well-crafted game with interesting choices and challenges, thanks. Not a game in which the "best" class and the "best" build and the "best" strategy are very quickly figured out and the only way to have a challenge is to self-impose it. 

 

 

It can also make sense to remove/nerf obvious exploits, since they will reduce options for players that don't want to cheese their way through the game or make other abilities seem useless and weak in comparison.

 

I agree with you. And that's exactly what Lord Vicious was arguing against - he'd prefer (unless I misunderstand) that OP tools on the player's side not ever be nerfed because that's "not fun". I disagree with him for the exact reason you stated - obviously dominant strategies make the game boring by removing interesting choices for the player.

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Hi guys, Przemo form Poland here. Since i bought  Pillars of eternity on Steam i cannot play the game for one simple reason - GAME FREEZES on loading screen after defeating enemies in first camp, after electric storm. Every time - i can play only to this moment ( i must admit that  i love this game and want to play more than 10mins) Next thing is i cannot save the game.

I need your help so much.... I read hundreads of topics on forums, searched everywhere, changed on beta version, checked/veryficated files on steam

Is there a chance to fix this problem ?  I have win7 64 bit,  cpu3ghz, gtx 760 2gb 256bit PLEASE HELP 

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Hi guys, Przemo form Poland here. Since i bought  Pillars of eternity on Steam i cannot play the game for one simple reason - GAME FREEZES on loading screen after defeating enemies in first camp, after electric storm. Every time - i can play only to this moment ( i must admit that  i love this game and want to play more than 10mins) Next thing is i cannot save the game.

I need your help so much.... I read hundreads of topics on forums, searched everywhere, changed on beta version, checked/veryficated files on steam

Is there a chance to fix this problem ?  I have win7 64 bit,  cpu3ghz, gtx 760 2gb 256bit PLEASE HELP 

 

Please refer to this post: MUST READ: How to Report an Issue

 

Then, create a new thread here: Pillars of Eternity: Technical Support (Spoiler Warning!)

 

Include the requested information and files.  Since you are not able to save the game, you may need to supply the autosave, if the game is creating one.

 

Once you have done that, someone can attempt to help you solve the problem.  This is not the right place for that conversation, however.

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This is tantamount to saying "balance in single player games is bad". Or "balance in single player games should only ever be accomplished by making the game easier", which is the exact same thing as saying "balance is bad" because you cannot balance a scale by adding weight only to one side. That's ridiculous. Either you want a balanced game, in which case buffs and nerfs have to be on the table - or you hate balance in single player games. Which is an opinion you're welcome to hold, but I (and many others) will fundamentally disagree with you. I want to play a well-crafted game with interesting choices and challenges, thanks. Not a game in which the "best" class and the "best" build and the "best" strategy are very quickly figured out and the only way to have a challenge is to self-impose it. 

 

 

It can also make sense to remove/nerf obvious exploits, since they will reduce options for players that don't want to cheese their way through the game or make other abilities seem useless and weak in comparison.

 

I agree with you. And that's exactly what Lord Vicious was arguing against - he'd prefer (unless I misunderstand) that OP tools on the player's side not ever be nerfed because that's "not fun". I disagree with him for the exact reason you stated - obviously dominant strategies make the game boring by removing interesting choices for the player.

 

 

I disagree. I have tons of fun for example with OSA retalition barbarian in game. I am currently on my 3rd (!) solo playthrough in PoE, did 2 times Triple Crown solo.

 

Now you can but you do not have to use OSA barb, or retalitation Cipher etc. You choose it. We will never compet against each other in this game, nor we will PvP.

 

I for example won't patch my game anymore if they nerf OSA on barb. I like barb as he is and I won't allow nerf on my PC. That is only talent that makes barb do something phenomenal at same level as other classes can. I want to have my fun and I have. You solution destroy my fun just so players like you feel less bad not using "cheese" tactics.

 

I was always against nerfs in Single Player and I always will. If player want, he will type god-mod, donwload mods etc. to "cheese" through game either way. However that is not my problem. Everybody play as they feel fun.

 

And don't tell me that OP builds put less choice for players. You decide what to play and how. Cheese or not, broken builds or not, using console or not, using mods or not. This is not MMO, no leaderboards, no PvP. Just you and YOUR adventure.

 

And even if you balance all skills- THEY WILL ALWAYS be "best builds", "best skills" and "most OP tactics". Thats how RPGs/MMOs work. With variety always come best combinations. You will just trade one OP build for another. You can't change it no matter how much balance you will do.

 

I would never finish this game if not for barbarian with OSA. Rest classes are not so fun for me. At least until barb won't bore me :). They I will move to chanter, since after retalitation barb he is most powerfull solo class in-game. That is fun for me. And nobody will tell me if my fun in SP game, on my PC is not fun.

 

So I am against nerf in Single Player. I am all for buffs though.

Edited by Voltron

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