Hour One

[Lord Flash]

So I caved in the other day and bought the Royal Edition of PoE (Power over Ethernet?)

Being one of the World's best players of Baldur's Gate - a claim I can't substantiate - I figured I'd like PoE.

I played for an hour, and so far, it's OK. I was however a little worried about the following little blemishes (maybe you guys can ease my worries):

I rolled a Cipher character, with Blindness and Charm spells (these were real crushers in BG). I set the autopause options from the impressive array of autopause options.

 

The Blemishes Start:

• Wolf sighted (autopaused)
• Send Fighter girl to engage Wolf, start Blindness spell from Cipher > Wolf (unpause)
• Cipher starts moving towards Wolf, Fighter girl does nothing.
• Cipher gets within touching distance of Wolf and starts casting (grrr), Wolf hits Cipher (autopause kicks in about 3 times).
• Some message gets logged that Cipher is interupted, nevertheless Cipher continues the casting animation and casts it (eventually).
• Audio message from Cipher states spell has failed, message log says Wolf is blinded! (WTF)
• Fighter girl is still unmoved. Re-order fighter girl to engage the Wolf. She 'springs' into action.
• Fighter girl hits Wolf for about 0.5 damage with her weapon.
• Fighter girl hits Wolf for about 0.5 damage with her Torch, Audio message from Fighter Girl, "Weapon has no effect" (It clearly has had an effect - about the same as the Sword if I'm honest)
• Cipher hits Wolf with his Prodding-stick for 19 damage! (WTF - Fighter Girl hits for 0.5, Cipher hits for 19?)

Mutiple battles played out in this staccato fashion... i.e.

• Autopause pausing when I hit the target!
• Cipher regularly getting within touching distance to cast spells.
• Cipher regularly explaining that his spell has failed but it hasn't.
• Charmed enemies turning green, but continuing to attack Fighter Girl and me.
• Charmed enemies claiming that they are too busy.
• Fighter Girl refusing to engage and needing multiple click orders to 'get in there'.
• Fighter Girl hitting for sod all damage.
• Cipher hitting for godlike damage.

What's with this...Baldur's Gate was never this clumsy - Urge to worry increasing!

[sim-h]

I autopause on enemy sighted and combat started. Not really noticed any issues other than shouts of 'it's not working' from chars when it is, in fact, working. Think there are some creases to iron out. Remember there is no party AI so although the characters should attack automatically, best to err on the side of clicking them on a specific enemy.

 

Certainly not noticed charned/green characters attacking mine until they turn red again, although the charm sometimes takes a while to kick in.

[sparklecat]

To start, perhaps if you don't want it to autopause when you hit a target, you should turn off the option leading it to do that?

[Xharlie]

I turned off all the auto-pause options before I even started my first game but I can completely identify with the "staccato" feel of combat.

 

I, too, have had issues with my orders being ignored or delayed, characters standing about, etc. I think that's what causes it - you're always pausing to re-issue orders or to check the log because the visual an audio feedback isn't good or is sometimes just plain wrong.

 

My biggest issue is that it seems impossible to block enemy paths - they mobs just run through your big beefy front-line - meanwhile, you can't run past enemy mobs at all - they engage you and your character stops moving and abandons your move order.

[evensong]

Yeah, you can change the autopause options in combat if you don't like them. I've only left it on when I discover a trap, because I found myself unpausing by accident every time combat started, on account of my habit of pausing as soon as combat starts in Baldur's Gate.

 

I think a good beginner's tip is not to play it like Baldur's Gate. Despite the many similarities, the combat mechanisms are very different.

[Lord Flash]

To start, perhaps if you don't want it to autopause when you hit a target, you should turn off the option leading it to do that?

Indeed, yes, this *would* be a good start...except the option to autopause when I hit an enemy is not even an autopause option.

 

I can, for instance:

 

Autopause when an attack against a party member is completed

Autopause when a party member becomes the target of an attack

Autopause when a party member is engaged by an enemy in melee combat

 

None of these options (as far as their descriptions are concerned) is supposed to autopause the game when I hit an enemy.

[Gallenger]

So, just a tip, because this really irked me too when I first started playing.

 

When you go to cast a spell, if you see little "feet" by the magic spell icon - that means you're out of range where you're currently standing and will need to walk to the target - if that makes the target too close for comfort, you'll have to wait. 

 

You'll need to direct melee characters to the front with purpose.  Did not have problems with charm however. 

 

There actually *is* a blocking mechanic in the game - in the form of attacks of opportunity, if you walk away from a character they get a free, instant swipe.  Only teleporting enemies get to ignore it.  The AI is *very* averse to taking these attacks. 

Edited April 7, 2015 by Gallenger

[archangel979]

The Blemishes Start:

• Wolf sighted (autopaused)
• Send Fighter girl to engage Wolf, start Blindness spell from Cipher > Wolf (unpause)
• Cipher starts moving towards Wolf, Fighter girl does nothing.
• Cipher gets within touching distance of Wolf and starts casting (grrr), Wolf hits Cipher (autopause kicks in about 3 times).
• Some message gets logged that Cipher is interupted, nevertheless Cipher continues the casting animation and casts it (eventually).
• Audio message from Cipher states spell has failed, message log says Wolf is blinded! (WTF)
• Fighter girl is still unmoved. Re-order fighter girl to engage the Wolf. She 'springs' into action.
• Fighter girl hits Wolf for about 0.5 damage with her weapon.
• Fighter girl hits Wolf for about 0.5 damage with her Torch, Audio message from Fighter Girl, "Weapon has no effect" (It clearly has had an effect - about the same as the Sword if I'm honest)
• Cipher hits Wolf with his Prodding-stick for 19 damage! (WTF - Fighter Girl hits for 0.5, Cipher hits for 19?)

Read spell ranges, your Cipher probably needs to get close because that is the range. Calisca not attacking after you click with her is strange. I have not had that happen. Next time send her in first and then send your own guy.

The spell worked but they complain about failed might be when you Graze enemy with spell. Spells only have 50% duration but the game might pronounce it as failed. It also explains why your guy did 19 while Calisca did 0.5, she grazed on both hits and that low damage was reduced more by wolf's armor. Your character probably has a two handed weapon that will go through enemy armor even on a graze.

Edited April 7, 2015 by archangel979

[Lord Flash]

Some good feedback...thanks for the "feet tip" and the grazing mechanic (for both spells and weapons).

 

I guess it's nigh-time for me to delve heavily into the manual...Baldur's Gate style.

[evensong]

Not a bad idea! I kinda miss the BG style wire bound manuals, but at the same time, I really don't. The PoE manual explains a lot of the mechanics while keeping it short and neat.

[Xharlie]

Meh. I turned at once to the manual to work out how combat was supposed to work. It is completely useless! The manual is not "short and neat", it is lacking of nearly all useful content.

[Gallenger]

I remember the Civilization 3 manual.  I mean, the Interplay manuals were pretty exceptional, but Civ 3 had a GIANT book lol,  I still haven't read that thing lol. 

[kat7ra]

Yeah, you can change the autopause options in combat if you don't like them. I've only left it on when I discover a trap, because I found myself unpausing by accident every time combat started, on account of my habit of pausing as soon as combat starts in Baldur's Gate.

 

I think a good beginner's tip is not to play it like Baldur's Gate. Despite the many similarities, the combat mechanisms are very different.

Not to play it like BG indeed!

the engage system, the "sticky" (for me at least) targeting on characters, be sure that you've actually made you order clear to the NPC that she's supposed to go there.

Don't open up with a spell in my opinion, it will sometimes make the enemies "hard-aggro" on said character, move in the fighter first.

I'd say just try to forget your "mechanics" from Bg and just try to find your own pace. It's similar, but oh so different.

[vetiver]

If there's nothing in particular to whine about you can always invent something! 

 

Just, wow ...

 

Take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror, OP--you're an ebarassment. And I say that without any prior judgment.

[Tigranes]

You're getting very confused. Which is what happens to many of us in the first hour, of course, so not casting blame. Just to clear up a few things, hopefully:

 

1) Use your autopause options so it doesn't autopause every hit.

2) When you use an ability and there are feet sign on the spell icon, it means you're too far and you will be moving into range to use your ability. You can also read ability casting ranges on spell / ability descriptions.

3) Charm doesn't mean you can select them and use them in the same way a Dominate spell would in BG. They will turn green and fight on your side, but are not under your control. 

4) If you charm something, be careful that your characters don't wack it immediately after. (Yes, this is something they should have fixed on their end.)

5) Who damages how much to what enemy is dependent on the weapon you use, the damage type it delivers, the various damage reflection values of the enemy, as well as your Might. You're carrying around a tutorial-only fighter (Calisca) at the moment. Check your Bestiary, which should now be filled up after a few wolves. For example, some enemies have high DR against Pierce but low against Crush; in those situations, a priest with a hammer might well do more damage than a fighter with a sword. (Of course, forgive me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound like you've got the hang of DR / damage type system in POE, so.... you could also read the manual.)

[Lord Flash]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. Most of you have indeed eased my worries about my perceived blemishes.

 

I particularly appreciated vetiver's comments. I will indeed take a long hard look in the mirror...Apart from being devilishly handsome, I've always wanted to be an ebarassment (as opposed to an embarrassment).

 

SO...MUCH...WIN!

[Malovane]

Hmm, only thing that has frustrated me so far is trying to get a flank on a mob.

 

Will try and run past them with my rogue, but the rogue ignores the instruction on where to move, invariably slows down at the side of the target, and attacks that. To get the flank, you have to then disengage, which gets you thwapped by the creature. So, the only real viable tactic is to either give the critters a *huge* berth while flanking (which makes it time inefficient), or use blind spells and other abilities to circumvent the need for flanking in sneak attacks.

 

I suppose I could turn party AI completely off - but I shouldn't really have to. If I set a move instruction, and nothing stops or interrupts the character from getting there, it should not override that instruction. In fact, the AI shouldn't be overriding any instruction, unless the goal was completely impossible.

[archangel979]

Hmm, only thing that has frustrated me so far is trying to get a flank on a mob.

 

Will try and run past them with my rogue, but the rogue ignores the instruction on where to move, invariably slows down at the side of the target, and attacks that. To get the flank, you have to then disengage, which gets you thwapped by the creature. So, the only real viable tactic is to either give the critters a *huge* berth while flanking (which makes it time inefficient), or use blind spells and other abilities to circumvent the need for flanking in sneak attacks.

 

I suppose I could turn party AI completely off - but I shouldn't really have to. If I set a move instruction, and nothing stops or interrupts the character from getting there, it should not override that instruction. In fact, the AI shouldn't be overriding any instruction, unless the goal was completely impossible.

Your rogue stops because he got engaged once he ran next to enemy and by default it is turned on that AI stops anyone that gets engaged so they don't suffer disengagement attacks automatically. You can turn it off but I would not advise it because characters love to chase others around and with it off they will get hit a lot from disengagement attacks.

 

There is a "hidden" queue system in the game but only for using special abilities. I would love a waypoint system for movement to be implemented, with engagement mechanics (and flanking mechanics) it is a must have.

Edited April 7, 2015 by archangel979

[NathanH]

When you go to cast a spell, if you see little "feet" by the magic spell icon - that means you're out of range where you're currently standing and will need to walk to the target - if that makes the target too close for comfort, you'll have to wait. 

Oh my, I didn't notice this at all. Thanks!

[Malovane]

 

Hmm, only thing that has frustrated me so far is trying to get a flank on a mob.

 

Will try and run past them with my rogue, but the rogue ignores the instruction on where to move, invariably slows down at the side of the target, and attacks that. To get the flank, you have to then disengage, which gets you thwapped by the creature. So, the only real viable tactic is to either give the critters a *huge* berth while flanking (which makes it time inefficient), or use blind spells and other abilities to circumvent the need for flanking in sneak attacks.

 

I suppose I could turn party AI completely off - but I shouldn't really have to. If I set a move instruction, and nothing stops or interrupts the character from getting there, it should not override that instruction. In fact, the AI shouldn't be overriding any instruction, unless the goal was completely impossible.

Your rogue stops because he got engaged once he ran next to enemy and by default it is turned on that AI stops anyone that gets engaged so they don't suffer disengagement attacks automatically. You can turn it off but I would not advise it because characters love to chase others around and with it off they will get hit a lot from disengagement attacks.

 

There is a "hidden" queue system in the game but only for using special abilities. I would love a waypoint system for movement to be implemented, with engagement mechanics (and flanking mechanics) it is a must have.

 

 

Problem is, it's happening when my character is not engaged. The mob is attacking my tank. Character is free to sail by, but instead decides to beeline the target and engage for apparently no reason, directly contradicting explicit orders. It's as if the AI, which is supposed to attack when idle and in combat, believes "moving" is being idle.

 

Hmm, queue system for movement sounds good. I know you can queue spells - will have to try that when I get home. Good idea.

[sparklecat]

Just leave more space when running around an enemy and flanking works fine; I've got a nice club that does x1.2 damage to flanked enemies that I've been making use of, and I don't generally run into trouble with positioning.

[DocDoomII]

Problem is, it's happening when my character is not engaged. The mob is attacking my tank. Character is free to sail by, but instead decides to beeline the target and engage for apparently no reason, directly contradicting explicit orders. It's as if the AI, which is supposed to attack when idle and in combat, believes "moving" is being idle.

 

Hmm, queue system for movement sounds good. I know you can queue spells - will have to try that when I get home. Good idea.

Enemies can have a variable number of "engagement slots".

Move your cursor over an enemy and you'll be able to see red lines going from him to your characters.

Those indicate the characters that are engaged.

[Merina]

Engagement is reported in the combat status window, too. What does it say about your rogue and its foes?

[Matt516]

 

Hmm, only thing that has frustrated me so far is trying to get a flank on a mob.

 

Will try and run past them with my rogue, but the rogue ignores the instruction on where to move, invariably slows down at the side of the target, and attacks that. To get the flank, you have to then disengage, which gets you thwapped by the creature. So, the only real viable tactic is to either give the critters a *huge* berth while flanking (which makes it time inefficient), or use blind spells and other abilities to circumvent the need for flanking in sneak attacks.

 

I suppose I could turn party AI completely off - but I shouldn't really have to. If I set a move instruction, and nothing stops or interrupts the character from getting there, it should not override that instruction. In fact, the AI shouldn't be overriding any instruction, unless the goal was completely impossible.

Your rogue stops because he got engaged once he ran next to enemy and by default it is turned on that AI stops anyone that gets engaged so they don't suffer disengagement attacks automatically. You can turn it off but I would not advise it because characters love to chase others around and with it off they will get hit a lot from disengagement attacks.

 

There is a "hidden" queue system in the game but only for using special abilities. I would love a waypoint system for movement to be implemented, with engagement mechanics (and flanking mechanics) it is a must have.

You CAN q movement, same way as abilities. Hold shift and click everywhere you want to move in order. The waypoints don't show up, but they're there.

[Matt516]

 

Problem is, it's happening when my character is not engaged. The mob is attacking my tank. Character is free to sail by, but instead decides to beeline the target and engage for apparently no reason, directly contradicting explicit orders. It's as if the AI, which is supposed to attack when idle and in combat, believes "moving" is being idle.

 

Hmm, queue system for movement sounds good. I know you can queue spells - will have to try that when I get home. Good idea.

Enemies can have a variable number of "engagement slots".

Move your cursor over an enemy and you'll be able to see red lines going from him to your characters.

Those indicate the characters that are engaged.

Also note: RED line means the enemy is engaging you. GREEN line means you are engaging the enemy. The two can (and often do) happen at the same time, but don't have to. Each character can only engage one foe at a time without special talents or abilities. No red line means you can move away without eating a disengagement attack. Edited April 7, 2015 by Matt516