Well that was disappointing (The End)

[Floki]

Well that was a disappointing game in the end

 

The game started off so well as well, the first few hours I thought "finally! a game that lives up to Baldurs Gate 2" and then it kind of just gets repetitive, forgetful and boring...

 

1) The Storyline was different and started off quite interesting but eventually just becomes wayyy too complicated that I couldn't even be bothered reading anything in the final couple hours of the game. I have no idea who that random woman is that turns up at the end and it's impossible to remember which god is which. I couldn't even tell you one of the God's name in this game, they are just so forgetful (unlike Helm, Tempest, Lloth)

 

2) Combat is dull and too easy (on Hard mode I only recall having to re-load a couple of times) and you constantly fight the same monsters over and over. I must have killed 1000 shadows. There are no memorable battles were you actually have to plan what your tactic is going to be (i.e the enemy has an assassin who hides in shadows that I'll need to get rid of fast or a mage who you need to take down before he summons too many creatures)

 

3) Nothing to spend your gold on (you end up with well over 100,000 gold in the end) which makes receiving gold for quests pointless.

 

4) The whole Stronghold aspect of the game wasn't needed. Does anyone actually use any of the buildings purchased there? The Wardens Office was the only building worth getting.

 

5) Companions are forgetful and not worth caring about. There was not one character that I cared about. I did all the companion quests but none of them really led anywhere or held any interest.

 

6) Side quests are very bland

 

7) You reach max level well before the end of the game which wouldn't be much of a problem if the side quests were interesting or contained good loot at the end of them.

 

 

Overall a very forgettable game and it is disappointing they could capture the magic of the Baldurs Gate series (but maybe it is unfair to compare to such a classic RPG)

 

 

[Guest]

Trolling?

[mrmonocle]

Well that was a disappointing game in the end

 

2) Combat is dull and too easy (on Hard mode I only recall having to re-load a couple of times) and you constantly fight the same monsters over and over. I must have killed 1000 shadows. There are no memorable battles were you actually have to plan what your tactic is going to be (i.e the enemy has an assassin who hides in shadows that I'll need to get rid of fast or a mage who you need to take down before he summons too many creatures)

 

 

Overall a very forgettable game and it is disappointing they could capture the magic of the Baldurs Gate series (but maybe it is unfair to compare to such a classic RPG)

try path of the damned, you'll be very much surpiced.

[user55555]

Strongly agree.

 

I think the reason for all the positive reception was that the game was decent in Act I and II, though still not in the same class as the old BioWare titles. Act III takes a huge turn for the worst and the endgame is just silly. Everyone unquestionably takes hastily introduced Iovara's word that the gods aren't real based on her eavesdropping through a door, but yet the gods still are real and have power? Your companions all write off the gods but then in the epilogue slides still worship them?

 

Story dull, vague, humorless and lore-heavy to a fault, writing verbose, NPCs mostly dull, voice acting bad (I winced every time Sagani spoke), few wilderness NPC encounters, weird unfun armor/weapon system, items dull, copper pointless very quickly, Stronghold management pointless, pathfinding broken.

 

However I did really enjoy the Endless Paths. It felt like I was back in Durlag's Tower. Way more captivating than that yawner of a main quest.

[Crucis]

Well that was a disappointing game in the end

 

The game started off so well as well, the first few hours I thought "finally! a game that lives up to Baldurs Gate 2" and then it kind of just gets repetitive, forgetful and boring...

 

1) The Storyline was different and started off quite interesting but eventually just becomes wayyy too complicated that I couldn't even be bothered reading anything in the final couple hours of the game. I have no idea who that random woman is that turns up at the end and it's impossible to remember which god is which. I couldn't even tell you one of the God's name in this game, they are just so forgetful (unlike Helm, Tempest, Lloth)

 

2) Combat is dull and too easy (on Hard mode I only recall having to re-load a couple of times) and you constantly fight the same monsters over and over. I must have killed 1000 shadows. There are no memorable battles were you actually have to plan what your tactic is going to be (i.e the enemy has an assassin who hides in shadows that I'll need to get rid of fast or a mage who you need to take down before he summons too many creatures)

 

3) Nothing to spend your gold on (you end up with well over 100,000 gold in the end) which makes receiving gold for quests pointless.

 

4) The whole Stronghold aspect of the game wasn't needed. Does anyone actually use any of the buildings purchased there? The Wardens Office was the only building worth getting.

 

5) Companions are forgetful and not worth caring about. There was not one character that I cared about. I did all the companion quests but none of them really led anywhere or held any interest.

 

6) Side quests are very bland

 

7) You reach max level well before the end of the game which wouldn't be much of a problem if the side quests were interesting or contained good loot at the end of them.

 

 

Overall a very forgettable game and it is disappointing they could capture the magic of the Baldurs Gate series (but maybe it is unfair to compare to such a classic RPG)

 

 There are some points where I may agree with you, and yet overall I have to disagree.  I loved this game, even with its flaws.

 

1. Names of gods are forgetful:  I think that you're looking at it from the wrong direction.  The BG1/2 and IWD1/2's FR setting had been around for more than a decade IIRC prior to their release.  Plus there'd been the old SSI gold and solver box D&D cRPGs.  I think that many, many players were so familiar with the FR setting that they probably knew its gods before even playing BG1, etc.  OTOH, PoE is starting from scratch, and those of us who only heard about PoE recently don't have all this background in our minds.  So, is it any surprise that we don't know the names of the PoE gods like the backs of our hands?

 

 

 

2. Again, this isn't D&D.  And PoE doesn't have access to the vast array of pre-existing monsters to use, and they didn't have the decade or more that D&D's FR setting had to build up a vast monster manual. 

 

OTOH, I do agree that there's a lack of memorable fights.  I wish that the PoE devs and designers had taken some of the lessons from BG2 and IWD2 where there were a number of very interesting battle scenarios where it wasn't just a simple case of "find enemies, fight enemies".  IWD2 had at least a couple of memorable battles.  One at the bridge at the end of chapter 1 (2?), where the area was really just one long running battle to save the bridge.  The second that comes to mind was just after the white dragon in a cave where your party was constantly getting attacked from both the front and rear by some sort of monster whose name I've long forgotten.   PoE really needs some more challenging and interesting battle situations that aren't made more challenging merely be more and tougher bad guys but interesting scenarios.

 

 

3. Gold.  Personally, I'd rather have too much than too little gold in the game.  That said, there does seem to be a bit of a lack of unique items.  For example, there are some interesting hats (not helms) in the game, but IIRC, none of them are enchanted nor can they be.  I love having my rogue wear the duelist's hat (a nice touch for a rogue who's more of a "swashbuckling rogue" than a hardcore thief).  But it'd be nice if there were some items that fit this sort of idea.  A stylish, but enchanted rogue's hat (like the duelist's hat).  Maybe some Gloves that looked more stylish that warrior's gloves aimed for the rogue-ish character. 

 

Another example of something interesting is the Dyrwooden clothes that look like a waistcoat when worn by a woman.  It'd be nice if there was a nice unique item that looked similar to that and was treated like a "robe" or "padded armor", but was also very stylish.  Anyways, those are just some thoughts.

 

 

4. The warden's house was the most obvious, though the botanical garden has its use as a way to get some of the enchantment components "free" (yeah, I know they're really not).  And Brighthollow isn't useless, since it's a free place to rest, but it sure would have been a LOT nicer and more useful/valuable, if all of the various bonuses from all that various buildings you had at any given moment stacked.

 

Regardless, I'm of the opinion that this form of stronghold was a real waste.  The bounties could have been given out elsewhere.  By someone associated with the Dozens?  By a warden based in Dyrwood Village?    The Endless Paths could have been standalone.  And the "stronghold" could have been a simple townhouse in Defiance Bay.  Or like in BG2, there could have been a different SH for each class.  Like wizards getting the wizard tower in the Gift.  Or maybe a paladin getting a room in the Crucible Knight's HQ.  And so on.

 

Or instead of having the plot require you to kill Maerwald, perhaps you free him from whatever possessed him, and he reclaimed his lordship over Cad Nua and it was just another place on the map, where every few "turns" or once a week, a new repair occurred, and the various places were repaired.  And he asked for your help in clearing out the Endless Paths.  (Plus you got to stay in Brighthollow for free.)

 

 

5. Companions:  I guess that it's a matter of taste.  I wasn't particularly attached to any of the BG1/2 companions either.  But I did find the lack of a rogue particularly annoying.  Hell, I found it annoying that in BG2, your pure rogue/thief gets axed long before the end of the story, so you're boned unless you played a thief as a player character.  Does this group of devs have something against thieves/rogues as NPCs?  Jeez.

 

 

6. Side quests boring?  Different strokes and all that.

 

 

7.  You reach your max level long before the end of the storyline.  A.  Only if you play a lot of the side quests, etc.  and  B.  So what?  I hate reaching the max level just before the final battle!!!  I want to have a chance to play with my maxed out abilities for a while.  Reaching the max level only just before the final battle is annoying and boring as hell!!!

 

 

 

 

[Durgarnkuld]

Who's Tempest? Like ... Tempus? Unforgettable, am I right?

[gkathellar]

Who's Tempest? Like ... Tempus? Unforgettable, am I right?

By Tempest's shield!

[Karkarov]

I think the reason for all the positive reception was that the game was decent in Act I and II, though still not in the same class as the old BioWare titles. Act III takes a huge turn for the worst and the endgame is just silly. Everyone unquestionably takes hastily introduced Iovara's word that the gods aren't real based on her eavesdropping through a door, but yet the gods still are real and have power? Your companions all write off the gods but then in the epilogue slides still worship them?

The amount of people who played pillars of eternity knowing what it was going in yet paid no attention to the story and clearly grasped none of the dialog is always surprising.  if you bothered actually listening Iovara made it clear she wasn't sure she did the right things, or that she was correct, nor did she deny they exist.  Her only point was they are not "gods" in the sense that they were not created before time, are not omniscient, and were created by man.  She never denied they existed or that they were powerful.

[CybAnt1]

veryone unquestionably takes hastily introduced Iovara's word that the gods aren't real based on her eavesdropping through a door, but yet the gods still are real and have power? 

 

I agree she could be wrong - maybe, eavesdropping outside a door, she misunderstood?, but it's very difficult to interpret your final confrontation with Thaos as not ultimately confirming her observations. 

Edited April 24, 2015 by CybAnt1

[CybAnt1]

BTW, the Greeks certainly did not think their gods were omniscient, or created before time. Just powerful. Like the Engwithian deities, they certain fought with each other, jockeyed for power, even killed each other. 

 

As for asserting their unreality/manmade nature, well, a few did that throughout history, including (although it's not clear if he was so much arguing against their existence as against their cultus), Socrates. 

Edited April 24, 2015 by CybAnt1

[Alaric Eisenarm]

Well that was a disappointing game in the end

 

The game started off so well as well, the first few hours I thought "finally! a game that lives up to Baldurs Gate 2" and then it kind of just gets repetitive, forgetful and boring...

 

1) The Storyline was different and started off quite interesting but eventually just becomes wayyy too complicated that I couldn't even be bothered reading anything in the final couple hours of the game. I have no idea who that random woman is that turns up at the end and it's impossible to remember which god is which. I couldn't even tell you one of the God's name in this game, they are just so forgetful (unlike Helm, Tempest, Lloth)

 

I am sorry for you. The storyline is definitly not too complicated, if you actually read the dialogues (and think...). You missed a very cool and fresh story due to your laziness, I have never seen a story in an RPG that has such potential to make people think about our "real" world like the story of this game.

 

So much better than the story of BG2 (a game I love so much).

 

Hower admittedly the story fits very well to my Weltanschauung - if you are religious, it could hurt your feelings. I am really astonished that such a game has been produced in the USA (due to the story).

[Alaric Eisenarm]

Strongly agree.

 

I think the reason for all the positive reception was that the game was decent in Act I and II, though still not in the same class as the old BioWare titles. Act III takes a huge turn for the worst and the endgame is just silly. Everyone unquestionably takes hastily introduced Iovara's word that the gods aren't real based on her eavesdropping through a door, but yet the gods still are real and have power? Your companions all write off the gods but then in the epilogue slides still worship them?

 

.....

 

It seems you do not realize that you have not fully understood the story. I am sure that you are able to understand it however. Give it another go! It only requires reading and thinking.

 

Btw and not related to the above: I found Defiance Bay a bit weak, because it did not give me the feeling of a city, but rather felt like a theater stage.

[sparklecat]

I found the speed at which we just accepted Iovara's statements ridiculous and rather annoying as well, especially as she was offering no proof.  My character's been a priest for potentially decades, likely grown up believing in the gods, and some random spirit tells her "oh hey btw the gods were created by the Engwithans because they couldn't find any others" and she just accepts it as true immediately?  As does everyone else?  No scepticism?

[Elerond]

Gods have kept Iovara souls off the cycle thousands of years, which make my character think that there is probably reason why they would go in such extremes to keep one soul to be locked away.

 

But anyway your character can not believe what Iovara says, although if you select those more polite responses you probably end to agree with her. Premade companions believe her to degree, but that is probably because they all have their problems with faith and how gods act.

 

And it should be taken account that you are watcher with awakened souls and you ended to believe her in your past life after your past life self confronted Thaos in Woedicas machines room. And those watcher whose souls are awakened have hard time not to let their past life(s) take over. So your easy acceptance of Iovara's words may also be counted to your past life instead of the person who your character is now.

 

But I agree that Iovara's writing don't necessary show well her charisma and conviction that make people follow her and leave gods whose power and ability influence the world is undeniable (as even Iovara herself says). Her writing don't necessary portrayal her as such charismatic leader who gets people follow her just with her words and conviction that she is in right. But your companions at least react her words like see is such charismatic leader.

[sparklecat]

Oh, I looked for options to not immediately believe what she said; if I recall correctly, the closest was more NO IT CANNOT BE TRUE! D: than a simple "I don't believe you."

[Elerond]

Oh, I looked for options to not immediately believe what she said; if I recall correctly, the closest was more NO IT CANNOT BE TRUE! D: than a simple "I don't believe you."

 

You can take her souls by force and try destroy it to get revenge all the wrongs that she has done to you.

 

 

 

Really believe me it will spoil part of ending very badly

 

 

"If you hadn't planted doubt in my mind long ago, I'd be living a normal life right now. Before I go, I will repay you for this curse."

 

You notice a bond now, one that has always been, an interleaving of her essence with yours at the extremities of your perception. You are tied to this woman's spirit, and you can feel a measure of control over it, as though you were its shepherd.

 

"I am going to extract you from this prison. Send you back to the cycle. Doom you to forget all you know. Perhaps one day you will Awaken and share the fate I face now."

 

"Please... even imprisoned here, at least I do not live in ignorance. At least my purpose was formed by truth. Do not make me give up all I have fought for."

 

[Extract Iovara's soul from her prison and purge it from the world.] "Goodbye, Iovara."

 

Beneath you, you perceive an immense concentration of Adra, deep as the world itself, vivid and humming in your awareness, a channel that passes beyond Breith Eaman and into the unbounded space beyond.

You focus on Iovara, wrapping wisps of your essence around her like some smothering, beastial claw.

 

Now firmly in your grasp, you drag her soul downward, even as she tears at her surroundings, trying to grab hold of anything that would allow her to resist the force you impose upon her.

You draw her deep beneath the floor, toward the magnetic pull of the arterial adra beneath, until the pull is irresistible. Then, all at once, you release her soul and she is gone.

 

 

 

[Alaric Eisenarm]

I found the speed at which we just accepted Iovara's statements ridiculous and rather annoying as well, especially as she was offering no proof.  My character's been a priest for potentially decades, likely grown up believing in the gods, and some random spirit tells her "oh hey btw the gods were created by the Engwithans because they couldn't find any others" and she just accepts it as true immediately?  As does everyone else?  No scepticism?

 

Well, afaik you can play a dumb char who does not believe her. Does Durance really believe her? I don't exactly remember his reaction, but I think he did not really agree (however I don't know if his reaction can be changed by the player).

 

However you would be really blind thinking that only the words of Iovara have convinced. Your char experienced a lot of things which in the end point towards what Iovara is telling you. There is definitly much more proof and hint in the game that the "gods" where a creation than the opposite.

[sparklecat]

Such as?

[Karkarov]

Such as?

The fact that they have to act through humans.  They gain power from human souls not from something else.  The vision with Thaos where the game pretty much says he creates Woedica.  Thaos never saying it isn't true only refusing to answer you instead.  The fact that Eothas appears to be dead or at least missing and was killed by a bomb made by humans, even if a God told them how to make it.  Iovara is also not the only one who implies they aren't real gods, there are the two Pwygra in Twin Elms.

 

If they really were all powerful beings that existed from the beginning of time why do they need human worship?  I thought they came first?  Why can they not enter the world directly if they supposedly created it?  Seriously think about it.  There are plenty of hints in game beyond Iovara just "saying it".

[dododad]

 

Such as?

The fact that they have to act through humans.  They gain power from human souls not from something else.  The vision with Thaos where the game pretty much says he creates Woedica.  Thaos never saying it isn't true only refusing to answer you instead.  The fact that Eothas appears to be dead or at least missing and was killed by a bomb made by humans, even if a God told them how to make it.  Iovara is also not the only one who implies they aren't real gods, there are the two Pwygra in Twin Elms.

 

If they really were all powerful beings that existed from the beginning of time why do they need human worship?  I thought they came first?  Why can they not enter the world directly if they supposedly created it?  Seriously think about it.  There are plenty of hints in game beyond Iovara just "saying it".

 

 

The big problem, even if you accept that thinking, is why does anyone care. Engwithian gave their own lives to create them, why they did that is up to them, but they are long dead. For the rest of the nations they are already a mystical civilization. Glanfanthans would hail them even more if they knew they created their gods. With that their view of gods wouldn't change at all. And it would hardly do so for the rest of the nations. It could convince some intelligentsia, but they are often already on the other side, for the clergy that can speak to their gods, nothing would change, and same for the faithful.

 

To see your companions and your own character get all hysteric about it, was the least convincing thing about the whole story.

[chouia]

Trolling?

 

Even if I love this game, and I don't agree totally with the OP... I think that every points here are interesting, and I can understand his point of view...

[sparklecat]

 

Such as?

The fact that they have to act through humans.  They gain power from human souls not from something else.  The vision with Thaos where the game pretty much says he creates Woedica.  Thaos never saying it isn't true only refusing to answer you instead.  The fact that Eothas appears to be dead or at least missing and was killed by a bomb made by humans, even if a God told them how to make it.  Iovara is also not the only one who implies they aren't real gods, there are the two Pwygra in Twin Elms.

 

If they really were all powerful beings that existed from the beginning of time why do they need human worship?  I thought they came first?  Why can they not enter the world directly if they supposedly created it?  Seriously think about it.  There are plenty of hints in game beyond Iovara just "saying it".

 

The Thaos stuff comes after Iovara, and the gods being created is certainly not an assumption I'd jump to from any of the rest of it; why automatically assume gods in this culture are supposed to be omnipotent rather than simply really powerful?  Why assume anything about them?

 

As for the sisters in Twin Elms, perhaps; I think something about the order I chose my responses made that statement not come up for me, though, since Aloth said something afterwards about them having said that and I had no idea what he was talking about.

[Karkarov]

The Thaos stuff comes after Iovara, and the gods being created is certainly not an assumption I'd jump to from any of the rest of it; why automatically assume gods in this culture are supposed to be omnipotent rather than simply really powerful?  Why assume anything about them?

 

As for the sisters in Twin Elms, perhaps; I think something about the order I chose my responses made that statement not come up for me, though, since Aloth said something afterwards about them having said that and I had no idea what he was talking about.

Uh the people of Eora don't think the Gods are just "really powerful beings".  They think they are omniscient all powerful gods who have existed since the dawn of time.  People think Berath is in control of the cycle of reincarnation for example yet the game clearly tells you the cycle of reincarnation existed before the first known record of Berath.

 

You need to read the dialog closely, maybe check out some of the lore info on the wiki.  I have an advantage because I read the guidebook I guess but trust me.... The average joe schmoe in the Dyrwood doesn't think Magran is just some really powerful lady.

[sparklecat]

The simple fact that their deities have separate portfolios and areas of control implies a belief in some restrictions/rules on the gods, rather than omnipotence.

[nakno3]

I experienced the ending unsatisfying und disappointing, too.

There are a lot open threads, you get no real answers and you didnt change anything in the world.

There is a conspiracy of created gods by a lost race millenias ago that is still going on today controlled by Thaos since ever,

and still it affects just a small region, waidwens legacy coming up just for a short while and Thaos acting kind of planless and arbitrary.

And all you get in the end is an psychological inside job ..

and you have to imagine substitutes to the story to make it logical or rewarding..

Edited April 27, 2015 by nakno3