tyranids4ever Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 Good, now I can have an oversized hat on my Bear's oversized head.
pseudonymous Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 Does anyone else spot the irony in some people reacting to Obsidian caving in to people who are too easily offended by irrelevant things by announcing they'll never buy an Obsidian game again until Obsidian changes back a few lines of text? Seriously, how are some of you any better than the SJWs you're whining about? What's funny is that these same people are perfectly fine with nonsense like this: Which puts the memorials at just slightly better than Sonic The Hedgehog furry fanfic but you know outrage and boycotts...
Death Machine Miyagi Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) Does anyone else spot the irony in some people reacting to Obsidian caving in to people who are too easily offended by irrelevant things by announcing they'll never buy an Obsidian game again until Obsidian changes back a few lines of text? Seriously, how are some of you any better than the SJWs you're whining about? What's funny is that these same people are perfectly fine with nonsense like this: Which puts the memorials at just slightly better than Sonic The Hedgehog furry fanfic but you know outrage and boycotts... In general, I went in expecting any backer contributions to be on the low end of the writing scale. Plunking down a wad of cash doesn't make you a competent fantasy writer, shockingly enough, and fantasy is one of those genres where the depths of suck people are capable of can be truly awe-inspiring. That was kind of one of the things that unnerved me about the whole 'backer participation' thing. That said, if bad writing were a big enough thing for large numbers of people to boycott games, then the games industry in general would be in deep trouble. Edited April 5, 2015 by Death Machine Miyagi Álrêrst lébe ich mir werde, sît mîn sündic ouge siht daz here lant und ouch die erde, der man sô vil êren giht. ez ist geschehen, des ich ie bat: ích bin komen an die stat, dâ got menischlîchen trat.
Luckmann Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 Does anyone else spot the irony in some people reacting to Obsidian caving in to people who are too easily offended by irrelevant things by announcing they'll never buy an Obsidian game again until Obsidian changes back a few lines of text? Seriously, how are some of you any better than the SJWs you're whining about? What's funny is that these same people are perfectly fine with nonsense like this: Which puts the memorials at just slightly better than Sonic The Hedgehog furry fanfic but you know outrage and boycotts... Actually, no. "These same people" aren't fine with that, in fact, the vast majority of people that are disappointed in Obsidian caving to the Twitter lunatics fully acknowledge that the memorials overall is terrible, garbage even. The fact that they chose to remove one of the very few ones that weren't objectively horrible and that would actually have fitted the bill of "tombstone jokes" - practically a staple of the genre by now - just adds fuels to the fire. The fact that they came up with the ridiculous PR claim about vetting is just insulting, considering the sea of piss that made it into the game just fine, but this, this one that wasn't actually bad, that actually fitted into the game and the genre, that actually provided what you'd expect from a tombstone, no, that one was just "missed". Out of all the issues with the Memorials, they chose to edit one of the very few that aren't terrible, directly at the behest of confirmed psychos. That is why this is upsetting people. It does not mean that the upset backers and buyers think that the rest of the memorials are alright, by a long shot. But the fact that out of all the really terrible ones that shouldn't have made it into the game to begin with, this one was the one that was changed. Which is just plain ridiculous, on multiple levels. It is childish and patethic, not to say morally reprehensible, and utterly insulting that they try to cover it up with a hilariously transparent PR line, after they first tried to slip it through unmentioned in the patch notes, hoping no-one would notice. 14
ChipMHazard Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) There's a reason why I asked the devs about what tone they were referring to as having been their supposed reasoning behind the request to change Firedorn's memorial. We will probably never get an answer to that and of course some people don't want an answer. We knew, those of us that had checked, that there were argueably worse memorials in the game than Firedorn's. Edited April 5, 2015 by ChipMHazard
Luckmann Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) It was pretty terrible. It didn't even scan. Context. The fact as to whether it actually scans or not is irrelevant. It's not a poetry reading or contest. The fact that it was a limerick and how good or bad of a limerick it was is so irrelevant it's out of this world. You're grasping at straws when you're harping on something like that in the context of my post, i.e. the fact that they caved to pressure from lunatics in this instance, while the vast majority of the tombstones aren't even.. whatever.. they're trying.. if anything, I guess, to be. Funny. Whatever. Contextually, the memorial in question was nothing short of genius, who cares if it scans? Nobody, except people grasping at straws, autists hung up on poetry, and 5th grade <insert native language here> teachers. There's a reason why I asked the devs about what tone they were referring to as having been their supposed reasoning behind the request to change Firedorn's memorial. We will probably never get an answer to that and of course some people don't want an answer. We knew, those of us that had checked, that there were argueably worse memorials in the game than Firedorn's. Arguably worse? Pretty much all of them. All of the memorials. If I had had the chance to write a memorial, I think I would've wanted to have it taken out of the game, just to not be associated with the PoE memorials and the backers that wrote them. Immortalized as idiots in a video game; "The joke's on you, I was only pretending to be retarded". Edited April 5, 2015 by Luckmann 4
Luckmann Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) Edit: ****, sorry, double-post. Edited April 5, 2015 by Luckmann
Grivenger Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) Unfortunately, I agree with most of the people here that this particular censorship was unfortunate. It seemed like a single person (or small group) completely misread a very basic poem. This speaks of the person's lack of intelligence, and reveals a psychiatric issue this particular person copes with. The poem was clearly about the character's shame of having slept with another man with the appearance of a woman. It merely displayed the false sense of masochism men are meant to possess, and the character's masochism was brought into question so he killed himself. The poem was very much on the side of any man-hater. Whoever started to complaint, and those who think the complaint was in anyway valid need professional help for the fact that they think they are always the butt-end of a joke or the centre of the universe. If there will be a chance for refunds, I'll gladly join in, considering it is the only way to fight against the insane minorities. Edited April 5, 2015 by Grivenger 2
EoniaBansbane Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 Unfortunately, I agree with most of the people here that this particular censorship was unfortunate. It seemed like a single person (or small group) completely misread a very basic poem. This speaks of the person's lack of intelligence, and reveals a psychiatric issue this particular person copes with. The poem was clearly about the character's shame of having slept with another man with the appearance of a woman. It merely displayed the false sense of masochism men are meant to possess, and the character's masochism was brought into question so he killed himself. The poem was very much on the side of any man-hater. Whoever started to complaint, and those who think the complaint was in anyway valid need professional help for the fact that they think they are always the butt-end of a joke or the centre of the universe. Yes, I understand that. It is weird how people are going through the roof, because of little things like that. If one would look at old nursery rhymes, they would find out that they have far more violence and ill will in it than this. Yet no one complaints about that, since it is part of history and culture. They should realize that this game was based on fiction and of medieval/Renaissance times which had poems and poetry like that. Many great literature we teach our kids at school have such themes in it as well. Macbeth, Hamlet, Doctor Jackle and Mr. Hide. We teach them about World War 2 and the cruelty that went on about it, but we keep blocking off games that just speak about such things while kids can easily get access to any of it on the internet. If any of those may read this comment, I hope they start rethinking. This is the era of evolution and changes. Every era changes and no one can stop that from happening. Instead of outlawing every piece you do not wish to see, just because you're afraid of changes, you should start accepting it and live on. All you're doing is spreading more hate where there has to be none. 1
Gotcha! Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 Actually, no. "These same people" aren't fine with that, in fact, the vast majority of people that are disappointed in Obsidian caving to the Twitter lunatics fully acknowledge that the memorials overall is terrible, garbage even. The fact that they chose to remove one of the very few ones that weren't objectively horrible and that would actually have fitted the bill of "tombstone jokes" - practically a staple of the genre by now - just adds fuels to the fire. The fact that they came up with the ridiculous PR claim about vetting is just insulting, considering the sea of piss that made it into the game just fine, but this, this one that wasn't actually bad, that actually fitted into the game and the genre, that actually provided what you'd expect from a tombstone, no, that one was just "missed". Out of all the issues with the Memorials, they chose to edit one of the very few that aren't terrible, directly at the behest of confirmed psychos. That is why this is upsetting people. It does not mean that the upset backers and buyers think that the rest of the memorials are alright, by a long shot. But the fact that out of all the really terrible ones that shouldn't have made it into the game to begin with, this one was the one that was changed. Which is just plain ridiculous, on multiple levels. It is childish and patethic, not to say morally reprehensible, and utterly insulting that they try to cover it up with a hilariously transparent PR line, after they first tried to slip it through unmentioned in the patch notes, hoping no-one would notice. I couldn't have summed it up better myself. Very well said. 4
Luj1 Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 "tombstone jokes" - practically a staple of the genre by now yup.... many isometric RPGs have it 2 "There once was a loon that twitter Before he went down the ****ter In its demise he wasn't missed Because there were bugs to be fixed." ~ Kaine
LadyLumyria Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 I can not believe people got upset at a harmless saying on a tombstone. I read them, not one offended me some were funny, some didn't make sense and some seemed half done, but they were for backers that paid good money to put whatever they wanted on them. If the backer was ok with changing it as stated then I fail to see where it is censorship. As for changing it to begin with...I would not have and if someone wished not to play a very great game after reading such then I" say so sad for them" The tombstones DO NOT represent the game nor have any baring on storyline or game play. For those that posted they will not buy the game now because of a tombstone saying....Really? Tells me they had no plans to buy it in the first place. I have been playing RPGs on computers for 31 years and I can tell you this one is great one and I am looking forward to DLC and or a part II. This takes me back to NWN, Baulders, Icewind Dale to name a few and just with the what I have played thus far its a great game. 4
Luj1 Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 This takes me back to NWN, Baulders, Icewind Dale ME too :D 1 "There once was a loon that twitter Before he went down the ****ter In its demise he wasn't missed Because there were bugs to be fixed." ~ Kaine
Flouride Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 If there will be a chance for refunds, I'll gladly join in, considering it is the only way to fight against the insane minorities. You must live in the same fantasy world as the twitter person who originally started this ****storm if you think demanding for refunds will help in any way. 3 Hate the living, love the dead.
Luckmann Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 If there will be a chance for refunds, I'll gladly join in, considering it is the only way to fight against the insane minorities. You must live in the same fantasy world as the twitter person who originally started this ****storm if you think demanding for refunds will help in any way. Honestly though, people that demand refunds belong to a pretty extreme minority, but there's still a good point in it. Most companies only speak one single language, and that is money. Even if only a very small amount demand their money back, it sends a very clear message, precisely because it is a very small amount of people that would go to such lengths, representing a growing issue. For every 1 person that is extreme enough to demand a refund, there's probably hundreds of people that have had their faith in the company shaken, or is questioning their purchase, but whose jimmies are not rustled enough to demand a refund. And the developers know this. I'm not saying people should go en masse and demand refunds, now, no, just that your conclusion is questionable at best. Demanding refunds may very well help, even if it only "helps" in that key persons may be replaced as time goes on, or that the company avoids appeasing crazy people in the future. At this point, they've painted themselves into a corner and they cannot back down on the decision to cave to the perpetually offended without losing face even further, so in that sense, you are correct that anyone thinking that they can convince Obsidian to be reasonable are living in a fantasy world, but as for the overall issue.. well it certainly doesn't hurt. 3
LordCrash Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) If there will be a chance for refunds, I'll gladly join in, considering it is the only way to fight against the insane minorities. You must live in the same fantasy world as the twitter person who originally started this ****storm if you think demanding for refunds will help in any way. Honestly though, people that demand refunds belong to a pretty extreme minority, but there's still a good point in it. Most companies only speak one single language, and that is money. There is no good point in it AT ALL. First, there is simply NO legal reason for a refund AT ALL. Second, there is no moral reason for a refund AT ALL. This is all just made up bull****, constantly pushed by some people (who are indeed a extreme minority, but a painfully mouthy one) who are either completely ignorant of simple facts or just fail to understand the same simple facts. Again, Much Ado About Nothing. Literally nothing. Edited April 5, 2015 by LordCrash 1
Elayne Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 Thank you Obsidian for changing the poem. It was offensive and in bad taste. I've read through most of the thread trying to understand why some people seem to be upset that it was changed and I am at a loss. The original poem dehumanized trans-women. De-humanizing a group of people is bad. Obsidian chose not to support this and changed (had the backer change) the poem.All's well that ends well.
Pierzasty Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 All the arguments I'd like to post have probably been posted several times over already, so I'll just leave this here: I was willing to pay for your game sight unseen. That has since changed because of how easily you cave to outrage-mongers and lynch mobs. So: 1. if I hadn't bought the game already I probably would pass on it now, 2. I won't be pre-ordering anything Obsidian in the near future. You made your decision, I will make mine. And if the moderation deletes this, it's only gonna prove me right. 2
GrinningReaper659 Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 All the arguments I'd like to post have probably been posted several times over already, so I'll just leave this here: I was willing to pay for your game sight unseen. That has since changed because of how easily you cave to outrage-mongers and lynch mobs. So: 1. if I hadn't bought the game already I probably would pass on it now, 2. I won't be pre-ordering anything Obsidian in the near future. You made your decision, I will make mine. And if the moderation deletes this, it's only gonna prove me right. So, when they don't delete it, have you been proven wrong? No, you're right either way? Alrighty then. 1 "Forsooth, methinks you are no ordinary talking chicken!" -Protagonist, Baldur's Gate
NineCoronas Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 The original poem dehumanized trans-women. It did no such thing. 1
floyd ryan Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 If there will be a chance for refunds, I'll gladly join in, considering it is the only way to fight against the insane minorities. You must live in the same fantasy world as the twitter person who originally started this ****storm if you think demanding for refunds will help in any way. Honestly though, people that demand refunds belong to a pretty extreme minority, but there's still a good point in it. Most companies only speak one single language, and that is money. There is no good point in it AT ALL. First, there is simply NO legal reason for a refund AT ALL. Second, there is no moral reason for a refund AT ALL. This is all just made up bull****, constantly pushed by some people (who are indeed a extreme minority, but a painfully mouthy one) who are either completely ignorant of simple facts or just fail to understand the same simple facts. Again, Much Ado About Nothing. Literally nothing. Well, i agree with you partly. The moral reason is that the decision marks the author of the poem as a misogynistic transphobic ***hole, or at least it supports the positon of those people that attack him falsely(!!!) with such accusations without defendig him against such accusations. This is the only part that makes me disappointed with Obsidian. 2
yugoloth Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 Honestly what annoys me in all this is that obsidian throw a backer under the bus to please a drama queen and kept saying how important we are, apparently we are worth one twitter. 2
Flouride Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 All the arguments I'd like to post have probably been posted several times over already, so I'll just leave this here: I was willing to pay for your game sight unseen. That has since changed because of how easily you cave to outrage-mongers and lynch mobs. So: 1. if I hadn't bought the game already I probably would pass on it now, 2. I won't be pre-ordering anything Obsidian in the near future. You made your decision, I will make mine. And if the moderation deletes this, it's only gonna prove me right. You poor thing. How can you sleep at night with such great injustice been done to you? Hate the living, love the dead.
Vaerhoren Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 It's a real damn shame my first post is because of this sad affair. Frankly, it's a disgusting show of cowardice and caving into demand of an obviously mental individual (#killallmen anyone?) I'm sad I was a backer right now. If I could I would refund it right now, out of principle. You're listening to some idiot over twitter instead your fans? Great. How in the flying **** could you censor your own work, even a tiny, irrelevant detail like that is beyond me. Absolutely disgusting. 2
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