Elayne

By the socjus crowd's own definitions it would be rape by deception. But since the "victim" was a male, who obviously can't be a victim due to his privilege and status as an oppressor, the true victim in the situation turns out to be the person whose feelings were hurt, who clearly did no wrong. Sorry, try again, it is not rape. You are demonstrating the bigotry that caused Obsidian to change this in the first place. Also, of course males can be victims. I am unsure what that has to do with anything.

If that trans woman took advantage of a straight man who was too drunk to consent, then yes. She was a rapist. Just as I wrote earlier. How do you know what exactly happened just from 4 verses? Was the straight man too intoxicated to give consent or not? Was the trans woman the active party? Did she stop when he said no or not? Did he said no or not? Please answer those questions exactly. Until then, we shall leave the matter of who is the bigot here unresolved, shall we? You are convoluting the issue by introducing drugs. No one said anything about drugs. Please stop deflecting and examine what is happening.

And what if the joke described a date rape? A straight guy drinks a lot, a trans person (who can also be a *bad* person, even a rapist, being trans doesn't make you automatically good) takes advantage of him, the straight guy wakes up, throws up and throws himself from a bridge? Do we know what exactly happened? Or are we making a lot of baseless assumptions? *sigh* So what you are saying is that if a guy sleeps with a woman, and later that guy finds out she is trans and he is upset by this, that woman is a rapist? ^This is why Obsidian changed the poem. They do not want to re-enforce that type of bigoted thinking.

That's the point. It wasn't. There weren't any trans women mentioned or alluded to in the epitaph, and the person assumed to be was not "dehumanized". I'm honestly puzzled by this. I would be much more sympathetic to the removal of the poem if it weren't over an obvious misunderstanding (or deliberate misreading) of it. You are blatantly wrong. Sleeping with a woman, and later finding out that person is "actually a man" has been a common trope for the last 20 years that degrades trans-women (see Ace Ventura, Always Sunny, Jerry Springer, etc. I really don't think this is up for debate). For you to think that this was an obvious misunderstanding, or some sort of internet conspiracy is insane. Please just stop. It's a joke, one not really meant to paint anyone in a direct bad light, it's only degrading if you perceive it that way. If anything, it mocks the sexual insecurity of men or at the very least jokes about the awkward situation that, to this very day, sometimes happens between men and trans people. I can however safely say that if you and others keep reacting to harmless jokes like this, you will ultimately just create further gaps between people, because what you're essentially asking for is special treatment. Trans people are not special, they are humans, capable of humour and being joked about just like any other group of people. Jokes are not a problem, stereotypes are not a problem. You know what's a problem? People that seriously go "HAH, THIS IS JUST HOW x PEOPLE ALL ACT, THEY'RE DUMB AND SILLY", which honestly would be like that regardless if the joke or stereotype existed or not because their views and opinions were not created trough some silly joke but rather trough ignorance. Frown upon the people that do this, instead of the jokes and stereotypes, because any sane person know the difference between jokes/stereotypes and real life, just like with TV, books and games. You can tell me thousand of offensive jokes and it would change my mind about black people or any other group of people. I would however laugh at most jokes probably because I love offensive jokes and think they are good for breaking barriers and also for pointing out just how stupid some stereotypes are. I think this song sums up my thoughts on this. Wow, there's a lot there so I will try to be brief. 1. Saying it pokes fun at an "awkward situation that occurs between men and trans-women" is the root of the problem. There is no awkward situation, only trans-misogyny. -"A guy sleeps with a woman and later when he found out she was a Sagittarius, he threw up." -"A guy sleeps with a woman and later when he found out she was trans, he threw up." Both are crazy, but one has validity in our society. See the problem? 2. Racist jokes and stereotypes are certainly not harmless. This has been acknowledged by our society (there is a reason black-face isn't a thing anymore). Saying offensive jokes and stereotypes "are good for breaking barriers" is crazy.

You're going against one of the strongest international lobbies my friends (LGTB). Don't you realize, they can do anything they want. Yes, the gay mafia deleted his comment. I'm sure Obama and a few other international leaders were involved.

That's the point. It wasn't. There weren't any trans women mentioned or alluded to in the epitaph, and the person assumed to be was not "dehumanized". I'm honestly puzzled by this. I would be much more sympathetic to the removal of the poem if it weren't over an obvious misunderstanding (or deliberate misreading) of it. You are blatantly wrong. Sleeping with a woman, and later finding out that person is "actually a man" has been a common trope for the last 20 years that degrades trans-women (see Ace Ventura, Always Sunny, Jerry Springer, etc. I really don't think this is up for debate). For you to think that this was an obvious misunderstanding, or some sort of internet conspiracy is insane. Please just stop.

Thank you Obsidian for changing the poem. It was offensive and in bad taste. I've read through most of the thread trying to understand why some people seem to be upset that it was changed and I am at a loss. The original poem dehumanized trans-women. De-humanizing a group of people is bad. Obsidian chose not to support this and changed (had the backer change) the poem. All's well that ends well.

Nope. Trans-woman are woman. Trans-men are men. Better luck next time.

Link? fixed: http://i.imgur.com/2k5C7dV.jpg it might seem to be silly jokes, but it's all like that, and not jokingly Even if I bought into the way it's been framed it is obviously hyperbole to call her a sociopathic monster (and dehumanising). Go see his twitter then if you believe he's completely normal and that's all framed. Your constant misgendering of her shows a lack of basic human respect. It also weakens your argument (which was what again?)

Well this whole thread turned terrible rather quickly. I am glad that Limerick was changed. It is offensive, and really had no purpose being in the game. I am confused as to why there is any controversy over this. Also, I've seen the word tranny dropped a few times here. Lets be perfectly clear, that word is a slur used to describe trans-women. Using it implies bigotry.