Limerick edit thread

[Longknife]

The dramatic overreaction in this thread is ridiculous.

 

I understand why some people might be sensitive to a joke like that but it was ultimately harmless and the reaction in the first place wasn't warranted and I never like to see content in games changed or censored because someone got upset, but sometimes it's better to be safe.

 

However, Obsidian handled this in the best way they could have short of not paying any mind to it at all, the backer wrote a new limerick making fun of the first one being removed, nothing was even lost at that point.

 

Half of you are reacting as bad or worse than the complaints about the limerick in the first place, just on the opposite end of the spectrum.

As long as the Backer got a limerick in the game (Which they obviously did) and honestly I think it was improved because of what it means now.

 

They aren't going to respond to every complaint and change the game into another game based on that, that's just ridiculous.

 

Don't act like Fox News guys.

 

 

I agree with this, with the addition that I do think for future reference, Obsidian could've clarified the change in advance and not after-the-fact after people discover it.

 

The entire GamerGate stance is that Obsidian is acting cowardly and caving to a minority (minority as in a very small opinion group, not as in a group such as transgender people) complaint out of fear of how it could effect their business. This complaint would fall flat if Obsidian confidently and assertively voiced their personal stance on the matter in advance and let everyone know what changes were taking place and when. Obsidian would then be able to easily claim this was their personal choice to do that.

 

 The way they've done it unfortunately instills doubt to the point where people are making the logical conclusion (logical, though still lacking in definitive proof) that Obsidian caved to pressure and only has an interest in avoiding drama.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Longknife

[Mansen]

The outrage over this is beyond ridiculous from my perspective.  The joke is clearly offensive to homosexuals and transgenders.  Would the people who are supporting it and saying it shouldn't have been changed have the same attitude if it was a racist joke?

 

Except it isn't - You've purposely misread it to fit your need to find it offensive.

 

Man gets drunk - gets into bed with "woman". It isn't "woman" - He panics and hops off an edge, which kills him. In what way does this degrade homosexuality or transgendered people? That's right - it doesn't. Not wanting to sleep with someone is not a crime against gender or sexual orientation.

 

 

The entire GamerGate stance...

 

Last I checked there was no "#gamergate" prescence or interest at all in this until the SJW's (as usual I might add) decided to name their opposition "obvious GG supporters" because it's convenient to do so.

 

I don't see how a movement that attempts to fight corruption in games journalism relates to censorship in a product - Sure there are some similarities in having a small minority dictate the order of business, but this is clearly not a "GamerGate versus SJW" issue.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Mansen

[Kermitpls]

lol the fact that some of them are mad at what was replaced made my sides leave orbit.

[Baeus]

A no win situation for Obsidian, but this is still disappointing.

 

A few months ago the world stood up to protect a person's right to make a joke after the Charlie Hebdo attacks. I guess that doesn't apply here for some reason.

[DustOff]

 

The joke is clearly offensive to homosexuals and transgenders

 

 

The fact that many homosexuals and many transsexuals don't seem to have a problem with it tells me it isn't "clearly offensive" to anyone but people like Erika who are constantly looking for a reason to be offended. I don't even think most of the people complaining would have noticed any "transphobia" until the rabble-rousers like Brianna Wu and Jim Sterling got them up in arms by telling them there was.

[Lasci]

 

 

How is it logical to respond to the supposed notion that Obsidian is giving into angry mob demands by making angry mob demands of your own? Isn't that just as, if not worse than what the "SJW" people are doing? "I'm going to undermine everything Obsidian does financially." Really? That's what you are going to do? 

 

As a gay man myself, I had no issue with the joke in question, or any of the others I have seen. I'm not easily offended and I really don't care what some gamer nerd thinks about my lifestyle. 

 

Even if they did "give in" to the "demands," how exactly does that spell out the end of Obsidian (and from what some of you are suggesting, THE WORLD ITSELF?) Seriously, with all these new threads popping up, you guys are making more of an issue out of it than the idiots who took issue in the first place. Responding to a minority of "Having a female/gay/black character that isn't 100% against the stereotype is pure evil" touters by insulting the entire LGBT community (seriously, even when it's a feminist or racial issue, you guys always point to LGBT :/ ) any different?

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I found the limerick amusing. I just find the overall reaction to the situation hilariously bigoted and some of the comments here are not only irrational, but dangerously hateful and outright hurtful.

 

That makes Obisidians decision even more stupid. It was a very very small minority who was offended by it and they gave in. Now they get the backlash much much bigger since a lot of people apparently do not like censorship. Go figure.

 

 

Small minority? Says who? For all you know, you bigots could be the loud minority and there can be a silent majority. "Small minority" is your limited perception of the situation.

[k1rage]

 

 

 

 

I feel better now that everyone's true motives are coming out now.

and what motives are those?

 

My motives are a hatred of censorship, I grew up in a county where they told us we had free speech, well across the course of my life I've watched it disappear

and vanish before my very eyes. you have to be careful what you say at almost any moment because there are dire consequences to saying things that offend people.

shall we all show our mouths shut?

All of us will intentionally or not offend some one with our words it happens but we must be allowed to speak those words or freedom is dead

this man PAID to say those words and obsidian took the away more than a refund is in order!

 

 

Are you being arrested for expressing offensive opinions (that are not inciting violence)?  No?  Congratulations, your free speech rights are fine.

 

 

I am sorry but if you believe that censorship can only be done through the government you are really naive. Especially in this day and age....

 

 

I was addressing the "my free speech rights in our glorious nation are being eroded!" argument.

 

People not giving you a platform to publish your views, or saying those views are offensive, does not infringe upon anyone's right to free speech.

 

 

 

not my legal right per say buy my in practicality you can say much less than you used to, again its not necessarily the government doing it but you can nolonger say what you feel

[deuxhero]

 

 

 

 

2:they never appoligzed for it, instead they've talked very extensively about how they got physical threats forcing them.

 

 

Source?

 

http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/2015/03/divinity-original-sin-dev-talks-boob-plates-sexism-and-moral-outrage/

 

 

Ah, what a credible source.

 

Especially since I missed the Original Sin Kickstarter because, by that point, I was so tired of arguing feminism in general and boobplate in particular over their official forums that I left it in disgust and avoided all things Larian for a while. And yet this article claims the vocal minority didn't speak up until the Kickstarter started?

 

Larian must not keep a very close eye on their official forum, then.

 

 

I appoligize for thinking an interview with a person is a credible source for what they said.

[YourFaceIsTriggeringMe]

 

 

I love how you think anyone will take you guys professed motives seriously when your posts lecture about how misgendering is ok.

 

Like, credibility went all the way out the window there.

Do you even know what "misgendering" means? Would you care to point me to what posts "misgender" somebody? I've been reading the replies here and I haven't seen anybody misgender anybody else. I might have glided over those parts you see so clearly, or you might just be making up words and definitions, like that twitter person and their "transmisogyny".

 

Here are some definitions:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/misgender

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/misgender

 

Calling a trans woman "he" or "it" when their preferred pronouns are "she/her" is called misgendering. Transmisogyny is basically the intersection of transphobia and misogyny: misogyny that trans women face primarily because of their trans status. This isn't very difficult to understand. 

 

"Calling a trans woman "he" or "it" when their preferred pronouns are "she/her" is called misgendering."

Absolutelly, yes. Where's the trans woman, though? What trans woman are you talking about?

 

"Transmisogyny is basically the intersection of transphobia and misogyny: misogyny that trans women face primarily because of their trans status."

There's a word for this: transphobia. It's a word that can be used when talking about both trans women and trans men. It already exists and it's already seen as an awful thing, like homophobia. This isn't very difficult to understand.

[Lasci]

 

The outrage over this is beyond ridiculous from my perspective.  The joke is clearly offensive to homosexuals and transgenders.  Would the people who are supporting it and saying it shouldn't have been changed have the same attitude if it was a racist joke?

 

Except it isn't - You've purposely misread it to fit your need to find it offensive.

 

Man gets drunk - gets into bed with "woman". It isn't "woman" - He panics and hops off an edge, which kills him. In what way does this degrade homosexuality or transgendered people? That's right - it doesn't. Not wanting to sleep with someone is not a crime against gender or sexual orientation.

 

 

No. YOU'RE misreading it.

 

The limerick said nothing about being drunk, inebriated, or anything short of sober.

[bleakcabaler]

Just letting you know that I couldn't care less about these politics, nor about the actual joke. The only thing that matters to me is that Obsidian has proven today to be a company with NO INTEGRITY. This characteristic is very important to me and to every customer who cares about what happens with his money. I've been buying every Obsidian's game ever since it was created (yes, even DS3) because of your incredible potential and passion for games. Hell, I've been rooting for a lot of you guys ever since Fallout and Planescape and Arcanum. But unfortunately talent means nothing without integrity. If you had it you wouldn't have pressured the backer into changing his 500$ worth input into the game.

 

It was a fun ride guys but I will not give my money to a company with no integrity, a company who is more interested in the opinion of a bully than their loyal customer. It is simply a matter of principle. And because of this principle PoE was the last Obsidian's product I have ever bought.

 

Good Luck to you all.

[Fenrir007]

1- So what? "I'm offended!" - so what? No one has the right to NOT be offended. It is especially silly to be angry at the thoughts of a FICTIONAL character, thoughts that you most likely misrepresented in the first place.

 

2- I wasn't aware you were the spokesperson for all homosexuals and transgenders.

 

3- If we start removing content because it was "offensive" to any minority, then there won't be much left to work with in well crafted works of fiction. You want sterile RPGs that don't deal with any sort of controversial theme? And don't give me the "oh its how about its handled", because people do NOT agree easily with what can be considered as handling well controversial situations.

 

4- You could very well have applied the user-made mod to remove the content from YOUR particular experience. Why was this not enough for you? No, really, explain to me how MY personal experience needs to be butchered to appease your particular, non-standard (as shown by the response to this outrage) sensibilities?

 

The joke is clearly offensive to homosexuals and transgenders.  Would the people who are supporting it and saying it shouldn't have been changed have the same attitude if it was a racist joke?

[Darji]

 

 

 

How is it logical to respond to the supposed notion that Obsidian is giving into angry mob demands by making angry mob demands of your own? Isn't that just as, if not worse than what the "SJW" people are doing? "I'm going to undermine everything Obsidian does financially." Really? That's what you are going to do? 

 

As a gay man myself, I had no issue with the joke in question, or any of the others I have seen. I'm not easily offended and I really don't care what some gamer nerd thinks about my lifestyle. 

 

Even if they did "give in" to the "demands," how exactly does that spell out the end of Obsidian (and from what some of you are suggesting, THE WORLD ITSELF?) Seriously, with all these new threads popping up, you guys are making more of an issue out of it than the idiots who took issue in the first place. Responding to a minority of "Having a female/gay/black character that isn't 100% against the stereotype is pure evil" touters by insulting the entire LGBT community (seriously, even when it's a feminist or racial issue, you guys always point to LGBT :/ ) any different?

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I found the limerick amusing. I just find the overall reaction to the situation hilariously bigoted and some of the comments here are not only irrational, but dangerously hateful and outright hurtful.

 

That makes Obisidians decision even more stupid. It was a very very small minority who was offended by it and they gave in. Now they get the backlash much much bigger since a lot of people apparently do not like censorship. Go figure.

 

 

Small minority? Says who? For all you know, you bigots could be the loud minority and there can be a silent majority. "Small minority" is your limited perception of the situation.

 

Because even many transsexual people thought this is ridiculous.  And I am sorry but there are far fewer nut jobs out there than moderate ones. And these moderate ones are now fighting against censorship.  And thank you for insulting me. I have reported your post.  Isnt free speech great?

Edited April 4, 2015 by Darji

[Volourn]

Evil nazis are evil nazis.

 

 

"Would the people who are supporting it and saying it shouldn't have been changed have the same attitude if it was a racist joke?"
 

Yes, I don't care. This is a game that allows you to slap a servant woman for ****s and giggles. This is a game where women and, men, and children are hung from a damn tree. This is a game where a 'good' character refers to women as ';fire whores'. This is a game where chidlrena re murdered in cold. This is a game where a husband abuses and murders his wife. This is a game where torture is done for fun and for 'research'. This is a game where racism happens quite a bit.

 

And, some silly limerick needs to be erased? COME ON.

 

But, it's not surprising. Obsidian, BIO, and all these other companies are  like JSWs. They hate their own customers. They hate themselves. It's disgusting, shameful, and cowardly.

 

How cna a guy who, again, allows the player to  abuse a woman physically somehow get all offended and defended about  a lemerick about some loser who kills hismelf because he is pathetic? Sad.

[SemiJames]

Screw Obsidian for caving to those sjw butts. And screw even more that backer who couldn't stand their ground. The goddamn game is not politically correct, so why the hell is these even an issue? Holy hell. No one can take a ****ing joke anymore. What a ****ty world we live in if thats truely the case.

Edited April 4, 2015 by SemiJames

[Fenrir007]

The outrage over this is beyond ridiculous from my perspective.  The joke is clearly offensive to homosexuals and transgenders.  Would the people who are supporting it and saying it shouldn't have been changed have the same attitude if it was a racist joke?

 

Of course. Fictional characters can say whatever the hell they want. They are not real people, you know. If you see someone portraying Hitler on a movie, that doesn't mean that guy is a nazi.

 

That I even have to tell people this shows how much humanity has regressed.

[sparklecat]

not my legal right per say buy my in practicality you can say much less than you used to, again its not necessarily the government doing it but you can nolonger say what you feel

 

You can say whatever you like.  You just can't do so without people disagreeing and calling it offensive if that's their opinion; that sort of robust disagreement seems like a positive thing to me.

[Lasci]

Because even many transsexual people thought this is ridiculous.  And I am sorry but there are far fewer nut jobs out there than moderate ones. And these moderate ones are now fighting against censorship.  And thank you for insulting me.

 

Did they really? Which ones? How many?

[Mashiki]

I love how you think anyone will take you guys professed motives seriously when your posts lecture about how misgendering is ok.

 

Like, credibility went all the way out the window there.

I find it hilarious that people get so bound up in gender, and have to scream from the rooftops about how important it is to them.  And it's so important, that they'll continue to scream because they misconstrue a limerick into something else.  That credibility?  It went out the window when you pinned everything on your sleeve and screamed "muh feelings."  Meritocracy and egalitarianism seem to be foreign concepts to some people.

[Mansen]

No. YOU'RE misreading it.

 

Thanks for proving my point that it is entirely up to your own twisted and subjective mind to be offended about...

[darkpatriot]

 

 

The only people allowed to decide what gender they are are those people themselves. Anyone else's opinion what it ought to be does not enter into it.

 

 

Not at all.  The only person allowed to decide a persons opinion's is themselves.  Anyone else's opinion what it ought to be does not enter into it.

 

A transperson can have the opinion that they are a woman.  What anyone else thinks is not required to have that opinion.  But if another person has the opinion that they are a man then that is also ok.  What anyone else thinks is not required to have that opinion.

 

Both those individuals are free to have whatever opinion they want.  Neither one is somehow infringing on the rights of the other by having that opinion.

 

You can identify yourself however you want to but no one is obligated to agree with you.

Edited April 4, 2015 by darkpatriot

[DocDoomII]

Calling a trans woman "he" or "it" when their preferred pronouns are "she/her" is called misgendering. Transmisogyny is basically the intersection of transphobia and misogyny: misogyny that trans women face primarily because of their trans status. This isn't very difficult to understand.

Now, I have nothing against calling a transgender (male->female) she, but she is still a he until science will be able to create a process that change them at genetic level.

Or should I start thinking of Michael Jackson as caucasian* to not incur in misracing him?

 

I know that caucasian is not the correct term for white people, but it's the most commonly used anyway.

[Nosey and Opinionated]

People are very quick to turn this into a censorship vs. bigotry issue. But here's the thing: if the creators of the game decide that something is in poor taste and want to remove it from their work, that isn't censorship. It's only censorship if they felt forced to do something they wouldn't otherwise have done.

 

The flawed assumption here is that Obsidian is caving in to pressure somehow. I think it's more likely that they were alerted to content that they didn't care for and wouldn't have chosen to include in the first place had they caught it. The latest update from them suggests as much.

[Luj1]

ATTENTION ATTENTION

 

 

 

THE PERSON OBSIDIAN CAVED TO IS NOW BRAGGING ON TWITTER

 

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/icequeenerika/status/582574820669407233

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SHAME, SHAME

Edited April 4, 2015 by Luj1

[Number1TheLarch]

The new limerick is funny.

 

The drama over this is entirely bumpkis, whichever side you're on.

 

George Carlin would've been hung for doing his thing these days it looks like.

 

Edit: Obsidian I think did the exact correct thing in response and of course people **** on them for it. Goes to show that Devs can't do anything without **** getting sprayed at them.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Number1TheLarch