Why allow resting in dungeons at all?

[Rapscallion]

Many complaints I see in these forums relate to the endurance/health system, pre-buffing and spell uses per day. Obsidian had many goals when designing this RPG system, such as the reduction of rest spamming to clear dungeons. Arguably it may even be worse in this game than in BG2 with the way health and healing works, particularly with teleporting shadows one-hitting weaker characters at the start of the game.

 

My question is this: why wasn't the game designed around a system that forbids resting in hostile locations such as dungeons? It took my characters around 3 days to invade Readrics Hold. Resting uninterrupted for 8 hours each time during a castle assault seems rather silly to me. In fact, with enough camping supplies you can spend weeks invading the castle. I also don't feel like I rest any more or less than I did during BG1 & BG2.

 

After 15 hours playing this game my only real gripe is that Obsidian's solutions to these age-old cRPG problems seem to be over-engineered and arguably ineffective.

[Xavori]

While I don't disagree with you, this is definitely a horse that's left the stable.

 

Too much of the game is now built around resting, including many of the attempts at balance, and changing it now would require massive systems overhaul to try and rebalance.

 

(not that I think they've gotten anywhere near balance yet as I've managed to find so very much cheese, but bless 'em for tryin')

 

One thing I will point out is that no resting in dangerous places never really accomplished its goal either.  Nothing ever stopped me from walking out of the dangerous place, resting, and then walking back in.  Which you will have to do anyway since you are limited in camping gear and apparently things like tents and bedrolls magically disappear after a single use, and there is no wood to be found anywhere that could be used for a campfire unless you buy it from a merchant

[PrimeJunta]

Because forcing people to trek out when they need to rest would be tedious. Limited camping supplies is a compromise to encourage people to play intelligently while allowing them to keep on truckin' even after something doesn't go quite as planned.

 

I know that sitting down around a fire to roast potatoes in the nasty animancer's office is kinda silly when you think about it, but rather that than having to slog to Gilded Vale then back.

[Darji]

Because you also can do it in normal D&D?

 

I never encountered it but there should be a chance of getting attacked while resting and the longer you are in these dungeons the more should it occur in my opinion.  Worst thing for me is that you can go in and out a dungeon, travel to the city, get more camping supplies and then go straight in without repopulating the area.  

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

Many complaints I see in these forums relate to the endurance/health system, pre-buffing and spell uses per day. Obsidian had many goals when designing this RPG system, such as the reduction of rest spamming to clear dungeons. Arguably it may even be worse in this game than in BG2 with the way health and healing works, particularly with teleporting shadows one-hitting weaker characters at the start of the game.

 

My question is this: why wasn't the game designed around a system that forbids resting in hostile locations such as dungeons? It took my characters around 3 days to invade Readrics Hold. Resting uninterrupted for 8 hours each time during a castle assault seems rather silly to me. In fact, with enough camping supplies you can spend weeks invading the castle. I also don't feel like I rest any more or less than I did during BG1 & BG2.

 

After 15 hours playing this game my only real gripe is that Obsidian's solutions to these age-old cRPG problems seem to be over-engineered and arguably ineffective.

 

Play on hard : only 2 rests in one dungeon.

[geobio]

Play on hard : only 2 rests in one dungeon.

 

 

Not entirely correct as you can find more campfire in said dungeon.

[LeBurns]

I agree it seems odd.  I recall playing Morrowind and if you tried to rest in a dungeon you would often get the "There are enemies nearby" message and couldn't rest until you found a safer place.

 

I was watching a LP on YT and the guy rested in the middle of a dungeon, then walked right into the next room and it was full of wandering monsters.  I couldn't help but wonder how many hours went by with none of the creatures realizing there was a whole party resting just behind that door.

 

It doesn't make sense, but it appears the game is designed to use that feature.  Sad they couldn't come up with anything more realistic.

[Sleazebag]

As bad as the loading times can get with the game I'll rather have the unrealistic "rest in a dungeon with enemies around you" deal than backtracking to a town's inn through 4+ loading screens that all last far too long.

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

 

Play on hard : only 2 rests in one dungeon.

 

 

Not entirely correct as you can find more campfire in said dungeon.

 

 

Yep.

[Narvallus]

I  like the idea of having limited camping supplies. Even if its kind of unrealistic. I think it forces you to play smart and its a good balance between NO REST  in hostile places and just UNLIMITED rests. 

 

What I do not like is the fact that you never get interupted. And also, when you rest in a dungeon there's a campfire animation in the woods... Not very immersive. 

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

Stop wanting realistic gameplay dudes.

 

I can't belive it, you fight against dragons, undead, wizards, you can heal your wounds by resting, you can read souls and all : but you find illogical to rest in a dungeon.

 

 

You know there's a way to play like you want, it's called roleplay. You don't wanna rest cuz you find it not RP ? So don't. I can't see your point.

[Moirnelithe]

One solution would be to not use the camping supplies, pretend they're not there. I find the resting mechanic a bit tedious as it is, unlimited resting is more my thing, as right now I don't use my camping supplies in case I'll need them more later. Same with wizard spells, Aloth is pew pewing with his rod most of the time (don't go there).

[wanderon]

Why not? It's not like anyone is holding a blunderbuss to your head to make you do so -

 

I have never understood why people complain about being able to do something in a game when all you have to do is NOT do it if that's how you wish to play

[benbe123]

I just did all the Defiance Bay quests (that don't involve leaving the city), on hard, and I used camping supplies a grand total of once. I honestly don't get everyones issue with spamming rests, why do people need to? Granted I was going to Inn's, but I never went to an area, left to go to an inn, and then went back, I just did the different quests/areas in one go, then went and rested.

Honestly, it seems like some people are spamming every per rest skill they can as much as possible, maybe this is something tied into how other games have been (dragon age), maybe it's because they need to so they defeat enemies, I don't know. But if you need to spam per rest skills so much, maybe turn the difficulty down? 

[aiqidar]

Many complaints I see in these forums relate to the endurance/health system, pre-buffing and spell uses per day. Obsidian had many goals when designing this RPG system, such as the reduction of rest spamming to clear dungeons. Arguably it may even be worse in this game than in BG2 with the way health and healing works, particularly with teleporting shadows one-hitting weaker characters at the start of the game.

 

My question is this: why wasn't the game designed around a system that forbids resting in hostile locations such as dungeons? It took my characters around 3 days to invade Readrics Hold. Resting uninterrupted for 8 hours each time during a castle assault seems rather silly to me. In fact, with enough camping supplies you can spend weeks invading the castle. I also don't feel like I rest any more or less than I did during BG1 & BG2.

 

After 15 hours playing this game my only real gripe is that Obsidian's solutions to these age-old cRPG problems seem to be over-engineered and arguably ineffective.

 

I agree, the game could have potentially been much better if they had made a clear decision around "No resting in any area that hasn't been cleared yet" and then built a combat system around that.

 

The only proper solution to the problem of rest-spamming would be to eliminate resting altogether, at least the way it exists in its current form. Yes, it's absurd that people in previous games could rest infinitely in hostile areas, but it's not really that much absurd than being able to rest at all in a hostile area (as in setting up a campsite, as opposed to just catching your breath and patching up wounds).

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

Why not? It's not like anyone is holding a blunderbuss to your head to make you do so -

 

I have never understood why people complain about being able to do something in a game when all you have to do is NOT do it if that's how you wish to play

 

I can understand to complain for an online game but an RPG like this one (RP, solo, much possibilities)... I'm like you i don't get it.

[Vaalac]

Well, I don't see the problem with resting in Raedric's hold since you're (Warning spoiler Raedric's Hold)

basically under cover (And you can even speak with your priest friend to rest so...). Also once you've killed the nasty animancer I don't see why you wouldn't be able to sleep here, not like anyone was coming here anyway.

 

 

On hard I only had to rest once in Raedric's Hold, so not that much when you think about it.

To justify it RP speaking, you can picture your team finding a safe enough place and having a watch. Not very realistic in a castle but in a dungeon... could be.

 

 

EDIT : I also think people try to play too much like in other RPG. IE veteran by spamming spell because they can rest as much as they want after anyway, and younger player because usually you can use your spells as much as you want. It just take some adjustement to see spells like a limited ressource. If it can play just switch your mage with a Cipher so you can spam spells as much as you need.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Vaalac

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

Well, I don't see the problem with resting in Raedric's hold since you're (Warning spoiler Raedric's Hold)

basically under cover (And you can even speak with your priest friend to rest so...). Also once you've killed the nasty animancer I don't see why you wouldn't be able to sleep here, not like anyone was coming here anyway.

 

 

On hard I only had to rest once in Raedric's Hold, so not that much when you think about it.

To justify it RP speaking, you can picture your team finding a safe enough place and having a watch. Not very realistic in a castle but in a dungeon... could be.

 

 

EDIT : I also think people try to play too much like in other RPG. IE veteran by spamming spell because they can rest as much as they want after anyway, and younger player because usually you can use your spells as much as you want. It just take some adjustement to see spells like a limited ressource. If it can play just switch your mage with a Cipher so you can spam spells as much as you need.

 

Ciphers aren't restricted ? Good to know

[LeBurns]

Stop wanting realistic gameplay dudes.

 

I can't belive it, you fight against dragons, undead, wizards, you can heal your wounds by resting, you can read souls and all : but you find illogical to rest in a dungeon.

 

 

You know there's a way to play like you want, it's called roleplay. You don't wanna rest cuz you find it not RP ? So don't. I can't see your point.

 

Some people like common logic in their games.  Following your logic you could make swords out of fish bones that do crushing damage and sets whatever it hits on fire.  Your answer would be "if you don't like it don't use swords".

[dirigible]

Following your logic you could make swords out of fish bones that do crushing damage and sets whatever it hits on fire.  Your answer would be "if you don't like it don't use swords".

 

This

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10772176_chinese-carved-fish-bone-sword-and-scabbard-34-1

With a fire enchant.

[thecolourofmagic]

Reasonably it should be possible to rest in dungeons. You've cleared out a room, you'll need rest. Just imagine in your head they barricade the doorway a little, they rotate watch duty and they rest for as much as they can before they venture deep. 

 

It is fine, it is realistic, authentic, blah blah blah.

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

 

Stop wanting realistic gameplay dudes.

 

I can't belive it, you fight against dragons, undead, wizards, you can heal your wounds by resting, you can read souls and all : but you find illogical to rest in a dungeon.

 

 

You know there's a way to play like you want, it's called roleplay. You don't wanna rest cuz you find it not RP ? So don't. I can't see your point.

 

Some people like common logic in their games.  Following your logic you could make swords out of fish bones that do crushing damage and sets whatever it hits on fire.  Your answer would be "if you don't like it don't use swords".

 

 

Camping in dungeons ain't part of the gameplay, you can go to an INN and come back : it changes NOTHING in the gameplay.

 

Then since camping in dungeon is only designed to make the game not boring and it's not a combat mechanic nor a crucial gameplay stuff : yes my answer was good and it don't apply on everything like "oh you don't like combats ? So don't fight".

[Vaalac]

 

Well, I don't see the problem with resting in Raedric's hold since you're (Warning spoiler Raedric's Hold)

basically under cover (And you can even speak with your priest friend to rest so...). Also once you've killed the nasty animancer I don't see why you wouldn't be able to sleep here, not like anyone was coming here anyway.

 

 

On hard I only had to rest once in Raedric's Hold, so not that much when you think about it.

To justify it RP speaking, you can picture your team finding a safe enough place and having a watch. Not very realistic in a castle but in a dungeon... could be.

 

 

EDIT : I also think people try to play too much like in other RPG. IE veteran by spamming spell because they can rest as much as they want after anyway, and younger player because usually you can use your spells as much as you want. It just take some adjustement to see spells like a limited ressource. If it can play just switch your mage with a Cipher so you can spam spells as much as you need.

 

Ciphers aren't restricted ? Good to know

 

They actually use a ressource called "Focus". You can use your spells when you have enought Focus, and you gain focus by inflicting damage. So you're not really restricted. Same kinf of stuff with Chanters who can cast buff non-stop and when they've cast enough they unlock some kind of "Greater spell".

[Nukenin]

As a retired dungeoneer, I can say resting in a dungeon (or cave, tower, ruin, larder, kybo, etc) is what we did.  Rest until ready to move on.  Treat injuries, eat a little, take a sip of water from the ol' waterskin, catch a nap, forge a legendary vorpal artifact, check rope and wooden pole lengths.  The things you do.

 

Honestly, there are other issues of realism with which to complain.  Like stashing a dozen pollaxes in your invisible backpack.  Or 24- (26-?) hour merchants.

 

In the real world of dungeoneering, we had to deal with encumbrance (you know how many pairs of boots and chain shirts you end up with when you maraud through a bandit cave and insist upon stripping every fallen foe?!?) and day/night cycles (even in the depths of the earth, many things have to sleep or otherwise rest, beyond we merry bands of dungeoneers, and when not at rest they often had things to do that didn't involve standing in the same spot all day awaiting us interlopers).

 

Every time I stroll into a CRPG town in the middle of the night (because my only other option was to leave the computer for X minutes/hours until the game world's morning dawned, or rest for an uncannily precise eight hours, no less, no more) and am not challenged by any sort of guard, I roll my eyes and go, "great, nobody's going to complain about this because they're so bent over resting in a dungeon or double-click-to-equip bugs".

 

Every.  Time.

 

We rested in dungeons.  Gotta problem wit' dat?

 

[Prime-Mover]

Stop wanting realistic gameplay dudes.

 

I can't belive it, you fight against dragons, undead, wizards, you can heal your wounds by resting, you can read souls and all : but you find illogical to rest in a dungeon.

 

 

You know there's a way to play like you want, it's called roleplay. You don't wanna rest cuz you find it not RP ? So don't. I can't see your point.

That's a terrible excuse. It's a fantasy game, and so of course that is going to be the setting, and it will make certain aspects of the game unrealistic in that sense. So we accept the premise of the world being aproximately like our own, with the exception that "here there be monsters" etc. But within that setting, things better be realistic, to the extent that it doesn't make the game un-fun. So that some game-mechanic or feature isn't realistic can certainly be excused, e.g. I don't miss being able to go to the toilet, because it would just be a chore. But if some mechanic is needlesly unrealistic, or the unrealistic-ness of it, kills immersion, that's a completely valid complaint.

 

I agree that the notion of resting just next to some monster is kind of annoying because it's unrealistic, so I woulnd't mind if they included some chance encounter based on the hostility of the place. On the other hand, back in the old IE games, I honestly just reloaded. And that's worse, and less immersive than the current system. 

 

And a note on RP. Some people play these games because the game does most of the RP'ing for them. I want a game where I can sit back, and let it do that work for me.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Prime-Mover