Journalism and bias in the gaming industry

[Blarghagh]

Looks like the Honey Badgers didn't actually sign up to do what they were doing, but instead signed up for the expo by pretending they represented a webcomic. If you're going to do unpopular stuff, maybe don't give people such an easy crutch with which to kick you out? The expo wouldn't have had had a leg to stand on if they hadn't broken the rules. Seems like they screwed themselves more than anything.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Looks like the Honey Badgers didn't actually sign up to do what they were doing, but instead signed up for the expo by pretending they represented a webcomic. If you're going to do unpopular stuff, maybe don't give people such an easy crutch with which to kick you out? The expo wouldn't have had had a leg to stand on if they hadn't broken the rules. Seems like they screwed themselves more than anything.

But one of them does do a webcomic and the booth was representing that.

 

 

"Kotaku isn't the problem" -Kotaku

Edited April 18, 2015 by KaineParker

[Namutree]

Every time I hear the whole 'she's not a gamer!' argument, it reminds me of the Obama birther movement.  

It really shouldn't.

[Nonek]

Has Mr Obama ever publicly stated that he was not born in America, like Ms Sarkeesian has stated that she never played games?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Has Mr Obama ever publicly stated that he was not born in America, like Ms Sarkeesian has stated that she never played games?

Yes, but it was part of a joke where he insinuated that the opening to Disney's The Lion King was his birth.

[Fighter]

 

 

 

That is actually a surprising point. I didn't expect there to be so little effect from her pimping a "right" kind of game.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

 

 

 

That is actually a surprising point. I didn't expect there to be so little effect from her pimping a "right" kind of game.

Why? Gamers aren't their audience remember?

[Fighter]

I would have thought there would be while a statistically insignificant but a sizable group of snowflake gamers that follow her.

 

EDIT: On a sort of relevant note. This is hilarious.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Fighter

[HoonDing]

Schreier ist ein blödes Schreier.

[Volourn]

"You seem to generalize about every single SJW when you have an issue..and that seems to often fairly regularly. But I suppose you also don't mean every single SJW so my concern seems  a little silly. My bad "

 

You should be asking yourself WHY I do that.

 

 

 

"But now this debate becomes difficult to have with you if really believe that every single SJ movement or suggestion is about control and slavery..that's  just a negative  and unhelpful generalization. Can you not see anything positive about the SJ movement ?"

 

No. NOTHING. Next youa re going claim that the Nazis had some postive stuff too. L0L Nazis were also about power, control, and slavery.

[Sakai]

But one of them does do a webcomic and the booth was representing that.

So basically they just used it as an excuse? Not very ethical, isn't it.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Sakai

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

But one of them does do a webcomic and the booth was representing that.

 

So basically they just used it as an excuse? Not very ethical, isn't it.

I don't get what you mean.

 

The HB's included a creator of a webcomic and were selling art at their booth, this is pretty much standard at most comic conventions. There are no rules they clearly broke, they did not shut a panel down(unless you consider politely offering an opinion disruption), and they did not harass other attendees of the con. The only explanation of why they were kicked out is that some people on twitter had a problem with their opinions and wanted them out.

 

Kicking out women for having the wrong opinions does much more to keep women out of cons(and nerd culture at large) than allowing 5 women to operate a booth ever will.

[BruceVC]

"You seem to generalize about every single SJW when you have an issue..and that seems to often fairly regularly. But I suppose you also don't mean every single SJW so my concern seems  a little silly. My bad "

 

You should be asking yourself WHY I do that.

 

 

 

"But now this debate becomes difficult to have with you if really believe that every single SJ movement or suggestion is about control and slavery..that's  just a negative  and unhelpful generalization. Can you not see anything positive about the SJ movement ?"

 

No. NOTHING. Next youa re going claim that the Nazis had some postive stuff too. L0L Nazis were also about power, control, and slavery.

 

Well its clear why you make generalizations about SJW, you are woefully uninformed about the broader SJ movement. You only see the movement in the context of gaming and how it impacts you 

 

I can help you change that mindset..but it will take time as I'll be honest there will be  loads of work and understanding for us  to get through? 

[Fighter]

So basically they just used it as an excuse? Not very ethical, isn't it.

 

An excuse to what? I don't really understand what rule they supposedly broke.

 

Regardless having researched a little bit. According to HB they were told by security that they are being expelled because of "harassment" with no explanation about what the harassment was.

[BruceVC]

 

So basically they just used it as an excuse? Not very ethical, isn't it.

 

An excuse to what? I don't really understand what rule they supposedly broke.

 

Regardless having researched a little bit. According to HB they were told by security that they are being expelled because of "harassment" with no explanation about what the harassment was.

 

 

Okay well that's a very different story if it is harassment..that would get  anyone expelled from a convention 

[Fighter]

Okay well that's a very different story if it is harassment..that would get  anyone expelled from a convention 

 

Listen & Believe?

[Volourn]

"Well its clear why you make generalizations about SJW, you are woefully uninformed about the broader SJ movement"

 

L0L

 

 

"kay well that's a very different story if it is harassment..that would get  anyone expelled from a convention"

 

What harassment?

[Fighter]

The harassment is allegedly from that panel where one of them spoke up and you can hear it hear at 18:30.

 

 

EDIT: Here are statements from both sides.

 

 

Early this morning, Fan Expo Canada staff (See edit notice at bottom)  banned Honey Badger Brigade (HBB) from the Calgary Comics and Entertainment Expo (CalEx). Security staff approached the HBB booth, ordered us to leave, and refused to state the reason why unless Alison Tieman agreed to speak to them away from the other members of the group, without recording. They informed Alison that they had received complaints on social media, including 25 allegations of harassment. No evidence was presented, no request was made for information from HBB, and no specific incident was cited until further questions were asked of security.

 

Upon further questioning, security mentioned the Women in Comics panel discussion from the previous day, where Alison was given permission to speak. Alison spoke briefly in relation to a topic brought up by the panelists. Accusers, however, claimed that Alison derailed the conversation. Alison and myself were in attendance, and you can listen to Alison’s statement in the panel here on YouTube. You can hear Alison, myself and indeed the entire panel in the full discussion record.

 

As you will hear, there was no harrassment. Expo staff and mob rule, in their crusade for ending harassment against women, harassed the Honey Badgers despite having no evidence of any policy violation. To those unfamiliar, HBB was founded by three women and has a highly diverse staff of volunteers, creators and lovers of free expression. Alison Tieman, a woman who spent 7 years writing graphic novels and fighting censorship, was censored by other women for speaking her mind, and advocating equal compassion for men, and true strength in character for women.

 

We ask all involved to question what it means to provide an open forum, and to examine how CalEx treats it’s patrons and exhibitors. Do they provide a safe space from harassment, or a safe space for the people who want to define what harassment means?

 

EDIT: Sources indicate that involved parties include Ben Marasco and Kelly Dowd, not Fan Expo. Our apologies go out to Fan Expo for any false association.

 

http://honeybadgerbrigade.com/2015/04/18/go-home-gamer-girl-press-release-on-unjust-banishment-from-calgary-expo/

Edited April 18, 2015 by Fighter

[Meshugger]

 

"You seem to generalize about every single SJW when you have an issue..and that seems to often fairly regularly. But I suppose you also don't mean every single SJW so my concern seems  a little silly. My bad "

 

You should be asking yourself WHY I do that.

 

 

 

"But now this debate becomes difficult to have with you if really believe that every single SJ movement or suggestion is about control and slavery..that's  just a negative  and unhelpful generalization. Can you not see anything positive about the SJ movement ?"

 

No. NOTHING. Next youa re going claim that the Nazis had some postive stuff too. L0L Nazis were also about power, control, and slavery.

 

Well its clear why you make generalizations about SJW, you are woefully uninformed about the broader SJ movement. You only see the movement in the context of gaming and how it impacts you 

 

I can help you change that mindset..but it will take time as I'll be honest there will be  loads of work and understanding for us  to get through? 

 

 

Oh?

 

What if all of this started with a MALE developer, lets call him Zachary Quinn, sleeping with five female journalists for favourable coverage. Not only that, he would've sabotaged a game jam, then created his own with a personal paypal account for donations. He would've also gone to court and solicited a gag order on his former lover, who wrote an embaressing blog about their relationship. Finally, thanks to his friends and connections he would've silenced discussions about the affairs on Reddit, 4chan and so on. Tell me, how would the mainstream media have handled this?

[BruceVC]

 

 

"You seem to generalize about every single SJW when you have an issue..and that seems to often fairly regularly. But I suppose you also don't mean every single SJW so my concern seems  a little silly. My bad "

 

You should be asking yourself WHY I do that.

 

 

 

"But now this debate becomes difficult to have with you if really believe that every single SJ movement or suggestion is about control and slavery..that's  just a negative  and unhelpful generalization. Can you not see anything positive about the SJ movement ?"

 

No. NOTHING. Next youa re going claim that the Nazis had some postive stuff too. L0L Nazis were also about power, control, and slavery.

 

Well its clear why you make generalizations about SJW, you are woefully uninformed about the broader SJ movement. You only see the movement in the context of gaming and how it impacts you 

 

I can help you change that mindset..but it will take time as I'll be honest there will be  loads of work and understanding for us  to get through? 

 

 

Oh?

 

What if all of this started with a MALE developer, lets call him Zachary Quinn, sleeping with five female journalists for favourable coverage. Not only that, he would've sabotaged a game jam, then created his own with a personal paypal account for donations. He would've also gone to court and solicited a gag order on his former lover, who wrote an embaressing blog about their relationship. Finally, thanks to his friends and connections he would've silenced discussions about the affairs on Reddit, 4chan and so on. Tell me, how would the mainstream media have handled this?

 

 

Difficult to say. Its always hard  to comment on a hypothetical example  when the scenario is so unlikely

 

But if he was being harassed online like Zoe Quinn I'm sure he would have received support from some people? 

Edited April 18, 2015 by BruceVC

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

"You seem to generalize about every single SJW when you have an issue..and that seems to often fairly regularly. But I suppose you also don't mean every single SJW so my concern seems  a little silly. My bad "

 

You should be asking yourself WHY I do that.

 

 

 

"But now this debate becomes difficult to have with you if really believe that every single SJ movement or suggestion is about control and slavery..that's  just a negative  and unhelpful generalization. Can you not see anything positive about the SJ movement ?"

 

No. NOTHING. Next youa re going claim that the Nazis had some postive stuff too. L0L Nazis were also about power, control, and slavery.

 

Well its clear why you make generalizations about SJW, you are woefully uninformed about the broader SJ movement. You only see the movement in the context of gaming and how it impacts you 

 

I can help you change that mindset..but it will take time as I'll be honest there will be  loads of work and understanding for us  to get through? 

 

 

Oh?

 

What if all of this started with a MALE developer, lets call him Zachary Quinn, sleeping with five female journalists for favourable coverage. Not only that, he would've sabotaged a game jam, then created his own with a personal paypal account for donations. He would've also gone to court and solicited a gag order on his former lover, who wrote an embaressing blog about their relationship. Finally, thanks to his friends and connections he would've silenced discussions about the affairs on Reddit, 4chan and so on. Tell me, how would the mainstream media have handled this?

 

 

Difficult to say. Its always hard  to comment on a hypothetical example  when the scenario is so unlikely

 

But if he was being harassed online like Zoe Quinn I'm sure he would have received support from some people? 

 

 

Don't pretend to be dumb now. Would've the SJWs listen and believed Zachary Quinn's story and defended him unquestionally?

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

"You seem to generalize about every single SJW when you have an issue..and that seems to often fairly regularly. But I suppose you also don't mean every single SJW so my concern seems  a little silly. My bad "

 

You should be asking yourself WHY I do that.

 

 

 

"But now this debate becomes difficult to have with you if really believe that every single SJ movement or suggestion is about control and slavery..that's  just a negative  and unhelpful generalization. Can you not see anything positive about the SJ movement ?"

 

No. NOTHING. Next youa re going claim that the Nazis had some postive stuff too. L0L Nazis were also about power, control, and slavery.

 

Well its clear why you make generalizations about SJW, you are woefully uninformed about the broader SJ movement. You only see the movement in the context of gaming and how it impacts you 

 

I can help you change that mindset..but it will take time as I'll be honest there will be  loads of work and understanding for us  to get through? 

 

 

Oh?

 

What if all of this started with a MALE developer, lets call him Zachary Quinn, sleeping with five female journalists for favourable coverage. Not only that, he would've sabotaged a game jam, then created his own with a personal paypal account for donations. He would've also gone to court and solicited a gag order on his former lover, who wrote an embaressing blog about their relationship. Finally, thanks to his friends and connections he would've silenced discussions about the affairs on Reddit, 4chan and so on. Tell me, how would the mainstream media have handled this?

 

 

Difficult to say. Its always hard  to comment on a hypothetical example  when the scenario is so unlikely

 

But if he was being harassed online like Zoe Quinn I'm sure he would have received support from some people? 

 

 

Don't pretend to be dumb now. Would've the SJWs listen and believed Zachary Quinn's story and defended him unquestionally?

 

 

Well you wont like my answer but I doubt it. And the reason is not because SJW don't care about  white, heterosexual males its more to  do with the reality that this group is the least likely group in the world that is discriminated against. So the SJ structures aren't understandably so evolved for discrimination against this group so I imagine there just would naturally be less outrage?

 

That's why I said the scenario is very unlikely  

Edited April 18, 2015 by BruceVC

[Sakai]

 

Don't pretend to be dumb now. Would've the SJWs listen and believed Zachary Quinn's story and defended him unquestionally?

Depends. But that has nothing to do with the point he was making. The point that generalization is a sure way to get something wrong. It's funny really, on one side you have "SJWs" believing that "GGers" are the spawn of satan. On other side you have "GGers" believing that "SJWs" are the spawn of satan. It kinda reminds me of what veterans said in Band of Brothers about germans. That at first they thought they were the evilest people in the world. But as the war went along, they realised that it wasn't germans per se, but SS and nazis. And that under different circumstances they might've been good friends. Also, whenever you feel like blaming an entire group of people for something, i recommend watching this video.

 

[Hurlshort]

[BruceVC]

 

 

This picture made me laugh but I am  missing its relevance to the discussion ?