Hurlshort Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The people driving shaming culture are bullies. They use fear and intimidation to make others submit to their demands at the threat of having their livelihood ruined; many have had their livelihood ruined, even after they submitted to the bullies demands. Some of these people, no doubt, derive great pleasure from ruining other people's lives. These people are monsters. They do not deserve to be apologized for. They do not deserve our pity. They deserve ridicule and contempt. That really just seems like stooping to the same level. Also isn't the Gamergate movement trying to clean up gaming journalism? Doesn't that mean you will be ruining people's livelihood? Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Nietzsche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The people driving shaming culture are bullies. They use fear and intimidation to make others submit to their demands at the threat of having their livelihood ruined; many have had their livelihood ruined, even after they submitted to the bullies demands. Some of these people, no doubt, derive great pleasure from ruining other people's lives. These people are monsters. They do not deserve to be apologized for. They do not deserve our pity. They deserve ridicule and contempt. That really just seems like stooping to the same level. Also isn't the Gamergate movement trying to clean up gaming journalism? Doesn't that mean you will be ruining people's livelihood? I'd think that what GG wants would be for ethical reforms that are followed by game journalists. Presumably the only people who'd have their livelihood ruined would be those who want to continue a culture of bribery and cronyism and reject the reforms. Would we really worry about ruining the livlihood of a politician who took bribes rather than worked for their constituents? Should we be worried about a (theoretical) journalist who only cares about getting money from a game company in exchange for his/her next positive review? Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Nietzsche I will say - more often than not - both sides of this issue have fallen into this category, IMO. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Well, well, well. Isn't this voice familiar? Not directly linked to gamergate, but to the similar hugbox-culture at higher education. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oerwinde Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Some university cancelled a performance of the Vagina Monologues because it "discriminated against women without vaginas" too. Its getting to the point I dont want to send my kids to college. Edited March 30, 2015 by Oerwinde 1 The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Some university cancelled a performance of the Vagina Monologues because it "discriminated against women without vaginas" too. Its getting to the point I dont want to send my kids to college. I had to look that one up. I'm pretty sure the Vagina Monologues will survive a small women's college cancelling the performance. This is absurd, for sure, but it is hardly indicative of college campuses across the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oerwinde Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 My kids are 3 and 6, so unless theres a major course correction, I can only see it getting worse. The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 My kids are 3 and 6, so unless theres a major course correction, I can only see it getting worse. Or it will just stay the same, which is what it has done since about the 60's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I just got the get this out of my chest. This very line of thinking is an amalgam of stupidity, ignorance and downright malice. There is no beauty, truth or desire to trancends one's position, because that would require strength of character, which requires rigorous thinking, which in turn requires failure and how to elevate yourself from it. What started as a nice "what if.."-idea has simply spiraled down to a "there has to be..."-dogma, disquised as a sheep in wolf's clothing as something "progressive" when it is all about control. I mean, lets do an experiment. Here we have a wonderful choir singing at a town square: Beautiful right? Nice example of sea-fearer culture right? Cool. Now lets put on our progressive-glasses: - The song is of scottish origin, then adopted by black slaves as negro spirtual and then back as traditional folk in New England. That's appropriation of other people's culture, which is problematic. - Why are there only white people singing this? Why can't it be people of color singing this? Lack of inclusion. That's problematic. - Why does it have to have a male lead? women can sing equally well. At least they should team up with a woman doing every second verse/chorus. This is problematic. - Why does it have to be a song of "white" sea shanty-culture? (nevermind how it has trancended through the ages). Why can't it be more minority culture? This is problematic. - Why does the lyrics (original lyrics here: http://www.jsward.com/shanty/roll_the_old_chariot.html) be about europeans? Why isn't there any mention of mexicans, africans or asians? This is problematic. - Why does the lyrics tell us about "going out with the gals"? That's transphobic. Why can't it be about everyone? That is problematic. So there you have it. A simple sea shanty sung by a choir has turned into a soul crushing case study on gender and culture and it has to change. This infentile line thought is insulting to any sane human being that posesses a soul. I feel better now. 2 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Good news everyone! https://archive.today/pmSbw "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyrock Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Good news everyone! https://archive.today/pmSbw "It's not you, gaming, it's me" For once, Ben Kuchera actually wrote something that's completely true. Edited March 30, 2015 by Keyrock 2 RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Not us Seemed very much like that Alan did feel that way, which is why I wanted to quote his response. He probably won't have time to respond, but I think its a valid question regardless. Well, to me it seems like Alan is being an apologist for the bullies. Yeah, nah. That is pretty much identical to the argument aGG uses against GG in trying to get people to apologise for various anonymous twitter trolls and the like, as well as things like 'sea lioning'. It's not very fair there and it isn't really fair here either. You're only responsible for your own views, not for anyone else's nor for them taking their views to extremes, whether you're pro or anti GG. If you think Anita is a charlatan you aren't responsible if someone thinks that plus decides to threaten her. I don't agree with Allan overall and I don't think the limerick should be removed (though I agree that from Obsidz perspective not having it in in the first place would have avoided these problems) because it is a joke and an equal opportunity joke as well, but people can honestly hold the opposite view without automatically being tarred by association with the tactics of the rent-a-mob moral outrage brigade. Let's be honest here, there's very little chance of Allan trawling through the game looking for things to be offended by, and there's no reason to disbelieve that he is actually playing the game either- though it is likely that neither of those two things are true of some of the other very vocal complainants, especially anyone brought in by the 'retweet my outrage' requests. There is an entitlement to having a genuine opinion. Basically, don't be George Walker Bush- all a 'with us or with the terrorists' attitude does is create a whole lot of unnecessary terrorists. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyrock Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I wasn't suggesting Alan was being a charlatan or sea-lioning. I was suggesting Alan was honestly trying to empathize with the people losing their **** over a limerick. My argument is that these people should not be empathized with because they are bullies, and empathizing with them is unwittingly helping enable their behavior. RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Some university cancelled a performance of the Vagina Monologues because it "discriminated against women without vaginas" too. Its getting to the point I dont want to send my kids to college. Send them into something useful like Engineering or Medicine and they avoid dealing with stuff like this. 1 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 But the problem is, change the nouns around a bit and you have the exact same argument aGG uses against GG: I wasn't suggesting [progg person] was being a charlatan or sea-lioning. I was suggesting [pro gg person] was honestly trying to empathize with the people losing their **** over the state of gaming journalism. My argument is that these people should not be empathized with because they are bullies, and empathizing with them is unwittingly helping enable their behavior. Don't know about you, but I've seen that particular argument used literally (actually literally, not sjw literally) dozens if not hundreds of times to try and get proGG people to shut up because they're 'enabling harassment' or similar. Tempting as it is to use the same argument in reverse if you feel strongly about the subject- and while I am sure no malice is intended here and don't mean to imply any is- it is, at heart, the exact same type of argument as that. The problems with that sort of argument is the same whoever uses it; it doesn't really work to change minds, in fact it tends to make people hold their views more strongly/ think the person making that argument is being disingenuous/ strawmanning them and is just a cheap attempt to get them to shut up. By personal observation I'd put that sort of argument by aGG types against neutrals as probably the 3rd largest recruiter for GG, and probably largest for people who are mostly 'anti-antiGG'. Those sort of arguments certainly had a big influence on attitudes of high profile people like TB and Mark Kern, for example. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Spoiler for POE: Using this logic, you could argue that Obsidian is racist because they show lynching in the first village the PC finds and as added fuel, Eder's has a "debate" with the PC over whether to count the lynched dwarf as half a person. SInce Obsidian let this content through, they are clearly racists using lynching images and debating about "others" being subhuman as an allegory for their own racism and hate in their real life** The game has parts where you have to wear a specific headgear. As godlike race you can't wear headgear. The game obviously is racist to the maximum. "only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 What do you know? It turns out that when you get away from twitter and go into gaming forums, the great majority Obsidian customers and backers are against corruption in games journalism, against censorship and against twitter lynch mobs.But no, no, clearly this is just a 4chan conspiracy, I backed Obsidian financially two years ago so I could harass women today, right? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Good news everyone! 1 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 What do you know? It turns out that when you get away from twitter and go into gaming forums, the great majority Obsidian customers and backers are against corruption in games journalism, against censorship and against twitter lynch mobs. But no, no, clearly this is just a 4chan conspiracy, I backed Obsidian financially two years ago so I could harass women today, right? Well technically we got kicked off 4chan(probably because after the Fappening moot didn't want to get sued), but otherwise you're right on the money. We built a time machine to install ourselves in the past to harass women by inserting limericks into massive videogames. Good news everyone! 1 "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "I love cheese despite the pain and carnage." - ShadySands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 What do you know? It turns out that when you get away from twitter and go into gaming forums, the great majority Obsidian customers and backers are against corruption in games journalism, against censorship and against twitter lynch mobs. But no, no, clearly this is just a 4chan conspiracy, I backed Obsidian financially two years ago so I could harass women today, right? Oh no...another member of the GG army...plzzzzzzzzzz...no more "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 We're zombies, remember? Your SJW buddies murdered us en masse yet we still exist. We just keep multiplying. 1 DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 1 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 What do you know? It turns out that when you get away from twitter and go into gaming forums, the great majority Obsidian customers and backers are against corruption in games journalism, against censorship and against twitter lynch mobs. But no, no, clearly this is just a 4chan conspiracy, I backed Obsidian financially two years ago so I could harass women today, right? Oh no...another member of the GG army...plzzzzzzzzzz...no more In here I speak as an Obsidian Fan, a Pillars Backer and someone looking forward to SkyForge and New Vegas 2 That beign said GGArmy does sound good! Also, who keeps making all the cute Vivian James artowrk, so cute! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luj1 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I feel the worst things in gaming journalism are - neo gamer columnists (people who missed classics and think Skyrim is the top of the hill. usually they are also hipsters though this is irrelevant) - paid reviews (always have been.... luckily its fairly easy to detect) - focusing on hyper-produced trash titles (mostly FPS and online cross-genre hybrids. they also often happen to be AAA titles) 1 "There once was a loon that twitter Before he went down the ****ter In its demise he wasn't missed Because there were bugs to be fixed." ~ Kaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Progressive moderation in action: Don't call it a grave, it is the future that you chose. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Progressive moderation in action: Don't call it a grave, it is the future that you chose. Who are we supposed to be a hate group against again? "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "I love cheese despite the pain and carnage." - ShadySands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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