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So...the End...a bit anticlimactic, isnt it ?

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Finished the game in 45 hours played it on hard, The ending fight was really underwhelming only 2 adds that didn't do any damage Eder was tanking them both for the full 30 seconds while my other 5 destroyed Thaos while he was knocked prone by my Druid before he could stand up, the constructs only knock Eder down but that's what he's there for right? I expected a lot more, the trash was also really easy I rested before the Thaos fight but I shouldn't have needed to.

As to the ending I promised all gods I would deal with the souls how they requested, Skaen and Wael showed up later and I was so glad Wael showed up as I didn't have any clue as to what I would do with the souls and boy did Wael give me one, I also like his lore and the scroll quest in Defiance Bay made me chuckle when he told me to hide it again.
Also the choice was quite fitting as I didn't want to favor any god, I would rather screw them all over at once and face their wrath, The ending slides I got were satisfying though all the gods went on a rampage and quite possibly killed more people and claimed more souls than Thaos had himself LOL.

 

Story is 10/10
 

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Just finished the game and I have to agree, the ending was somewhat unfulfilling. But I largely blame myself for this, as for example I didn't finish any of the companion arcs.

You didn't miss anything.

 

Seems they all pretty much boil down to nothing happening or changing.

After completing Sagani's knowing full well how it was going to end given how all the others had before it, I wasn't surprised.

 

Save the world is a boring story.

 

In a save the world plot, you know from the start about the outcome of the story. The world will be saved. Why? Otherwise the story ends (due to lack of world). Therefore, while the plot should have the highest stakes (literally everything is on the line), there are no stakes at all. Because failure isn't a viable outcome for the story, you know they won't fail. World trotting save the world plots also fall apart because they haven't the luxury to have any real depth because they have to detail a wide number of locales.

 

But there hasn't been any obsidian/black isle game I can think of where the fate of the world lay in the balance. Maybe Fallout 1? Arcanum was a save the world plot, but Baldur's Gate, P:T, Icewind Dale, Fallout 2 and NV all had regional plots, where you were saving a handful of communities. Most of these games have stakes that are more personal than global. It's about getting revenge and answers more often than it is staving off certain destruction.

 

It's not either or and the list you made shows good, focused endings. "Save the world" ones are too braod in scope, PoEs is too narrow, so much to the point that you feel nothing happens in the game.

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So.... why do we need to kill Thaos?

Because the game forces you to.

Everything with Thaos is pure railroad where you have no choice.  The writers had something to say, and you had to put up with it to get to the rest of the game.  The fact that it isn't very interesting doesn't matter at all. 

 

Part of the reason it seems unfulfilling is yeah, you stop a nutjob from killing children, which is a fine thing, and that confronting him heals your poorly established affliction (which is part of the problem to, since the game never really portrays your problem as anything but a touch of insomnia); but the Dyrwood is still a hole filled with awful people. 

 

You flip a switch and the problem ends.... but if you left the machine intact in heritage hill, you find the Leaden Key has standing orders, and just reactivate it... can't they do the same thing with the other sites that cause Hollowborn births?   Realistically, just murdering the Grand Galatic Inquisi-idiot doesn't solve anything.  Hunting down the Key and dismantling the organization should be the important part of the story.  Give the player something real to chew on after all the pointless  navel-gazing.

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The gods themselves are just constructions designed to create peace and stability. Thaos doesn't give a damn about Woedica, and this entire war for supremacy is just theatre put on for the benefit of the Kith. Thaos' ultimate aim is to end all chaos, and using this God-construct as a tool to do so. However, what was only said briefly is the whole game is about "gods" and belief. Even Iovara holds a god: choice. Every character is defined by their god, whether or not that god is a god at all (or if any of the gods are).

 

 

I just don't think there's a meaningful difference between super-powerful soulforged AIs who believe themselves divine and actual gods with legit divine powers, hence the whole ending fell flat for me. The fact that the game didn't actually explore the issue at its core, ie. the necessity of divine guidance and the effects of societies being built on lies didn't help. It's like the first 40-50 hours are spent on examining completely different themes than what the main storyline is supposed to be about!

 

 

I also think there is one single question in this game - they just don't spell it out for you like PST did. It's funny because I think you identified it without realizing it. If you look at all the companions, Thaos, Lady Webb, the Engwithans, Iovara, even the player character, they all have questions they're asking, as you pointed out, and they're mostly different questions, but what they have in common is they can't find answers for them. You're looking at that as an overuse of PST's open-ended question idea, when I think it's turning it on its head, asking the costs of questions like that. 

 

 

Wow, that's... I never thought of it like that. It's a pretty clever reading *tips hat*.

 

I'm not entirely sure it's an extremely strongly supported reading, but it's damn elegant, I'll give you that.


"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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Nosey and Opinionated is right - and I thihk it was very clearly supported by the game, in that all of the writing was clearly oriented towards this.

 

The game is about a personal story, but the whole "personal v. epic" distinction isn't really the point here. The point is that the story is very tightly wound so that all the different kinds of problems many different people (including yourself) have in the world, the chickens come home to roost in the final actor as you understand the similarity binding them together. That similarity, of course, is foreshadowed throughout the entire game in the scriptures of Wael you find throughout the world: what is an answer without a question? What does struggle mean - your struggle against Thaos, all of 'humanity' (& other races)' struggle against their own lives and disasters like the Legacy, Thaos' struggle against the 'false gods' - what do they mean when you understand that nobody can guarantee an answer for you? 

 

When Thaos asks you at the end, why would you want a world without the gods? You can give a number of answers. This isn't just flavour text. Through it, he (the game) is asking: what did your journey and your struggle mean, and that of Eder for his brother, Sagani for Persoq, etc., mean? Can you find meaning when the game does not throw you a Nice Happy Ending, and can characters find meaning in a world without gods?

 

If you want to save the "ENTIRE WORLD" (whatever that means when you play a video game set in a tiny fragment of it) from a HUGE AND ANCIENT EVIL, okay. Plenty of games out there for that. I loved what they did.

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I agree that Act 3 was anticlimactic, but only because the whole of Twin Elms felt a bit rushed because of the fact that there was this hub of gods and their domains and very short quests related to their favor. But other than how hilariously clustered the gods' quests were, I didn't mind this for one specific reason: progression. You've embraced the role of Watcher for such a long time, struggled to face an incredibly powerful cult as your raced against time to solve your impending insanity. You've destroyed religious sects, unseated a despot, taken a stance on a worldwide controversy, affected the course of a capital city, gained enough prestige to pierce through the xenophobic and territorial Glanfathan. You have proven your worth, walked effortlessly into the domain of the gods, and they need you. They need the power you've accrued to aid them in their struggle. You are their Thaos -- even if temporarily. You are the person they bargain with. You are the one they test their strict ideals against.  You are their only hope in the mortal world to help consolidate their power and fight the reign of Woedica.

 

Act 4 was fine as it is. It didn't need to be a dungeon crawl. The game was rushing towards an end. There was no point for an overwrought maze of encounters before the final boss. You're level twelve. It's time to confront your enemy.

 

In regards to pace and content, you have to remember that one of this game's major themes is that of rebirth, recycling, and the connection we have to our past lives. I thought it all brilliantly came together. The open-ended questions, the ambiguity, the lack of a firm resolution -- it all appealed to me greatly. The game wasn't tied up with a neat bow. It lingers, just as the next cycle of souls -- your character's included -- will continue onward.

Edited by Lasci
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Tigranes, sorry, but I never got a sense of a 'personal story' out of this.  The story isn't about the watcher until the last 5 minutes with the tortured elf dissident, when suddenly it kind of is (and a romance as well, at least from the dialogue I had :w00t: ), but not enough to make people care.  Yep, hello, dead lover that my past self betrayed for no reason, even though I was already convinced that the idiot I blindly followed was lying.

 

I also didn't get the 'why would you want a world without gods?' question.  If it even popped up in the text, it was overshadowed by a man who already had his answer and couldn't conceive of any others, and outright denied the existence of any questions. He couldn't even comprehend their might be other questions, or other answers.

 

For the companions, I don't see the pattern you see at all.

Eder has a question (a pointless one, imo, since someone choosing faith over nation isn't exactly unusual), but no answer (why did his brother support eothas, when Eder supported dyrwood)

Sagani has perfect resolution- she completed her task and went home.

Kana failed, but inspired him and others to greater things.

Aloth finally grows a spine and chooses a purpose for himself, even if it is a bad one.

 

But mostly, you flip a switch and the hollowborn problem is solved.  Regardless of which color light you choose what you do with the souls.  But it doesn't solve any problems with Dyrwood itself.  It isn't really about saving the world, but doing something meaningful, which the game really doesn't allow you to do- since after feeding the current crop of souls to Woedica, Thaos would have also stopped the Hollowborn births.  The 'crisis' was literally already solved by the time you get to the point you can affect it.

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Nosey and Opinionated is right - and I thihk it was very clearly supported by the game, in that all of the writing was clearly oriented towards this.

 

The game is about a personal story, but the whole "personal v. epic" distinction isn't really the point here. The point is that the story is very tightly wound so that all the different kinds of problems many different people (including yourself) have in the world, the chickens come home to roost in the final actor as you understand the similarity binding them together. That similarity, of course, is foreshadowed throughout the entire game in the scriptures of Wael you find throughout the world: what is an answer without a question? What does struggle mean - your struggle against Thaos, all of 'humanity' (& other races)' struggle against their own lives and disasters like the Legacy, Thaos' struggle against the 'false gods' - what do they mean when you understand that nobody can guarantee an answer for you? 

 

When Thaos asks you at the end, why would you want a world without the gods? You can give a number of answers. This isn't just flavour text. Through it, he (the game) is asking: what did your journey and your struggle mean, and that of Eder for his brother, Sagani for Persoq, etc., mean? Can you find meaning when the game does not throw you a Nice Happy Ending, and can characters find meaning in a world without gods?

 

 

I may be misunderstanding you, but... well, this is kind of my problem. You wrote this in support of N&O, whose point I'd summarize as "you can't find an answer to every question". It's a theme running across the game with Edér and Kana very strongly echoing it (and, in a sense, the depiction of animancers as bumbling fools who never actually manage to help anyone on-screen - I mean, the strongest argument for animancy was that they can cure Waidwen's Legacy, which turned out to be a completely unrelated issue, and the only time we see an animancer try to put her skills to use, it turns out to be a sham (I am, of course, referring to Aloth's quest)). (Or the origin of your Watcher powers, for that matter - it's never really explained why the biawac gave you superpowers instead of tearing you apart like everyone else, aside from some vague mutters about being a strong soul, coming from an extremely unreliable source.)

 

Meanwhile, you were arguing that the point of the game was summarized by the Waelian adage "What is an answer without a question?", while pointing out that it's all about the process of finding meaning in an inherently meaningless environment. Which is nicely postmodern, but I don't really see any relationship between it, the waelian question, and what I understand to be Nosey's reading. Which I find immensely frustrating. I mean, all three are textually supported, but they're also only related in the vaguest sense, and the lack of focus on any of them means you can see the vague, hazy outlines of a unifying theme, but it essentially remains an ill-defined blob. Which might have been the point all along! But I think that's a bit too postmodern to be, well, likely, considering the medium. Or enjoyable, for that matter.

Edited by aluminiumtrioxid
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"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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Yep, I love the fact that animancy is basically a speculative science and you never get a single instance of it going right. This also makes your decision at the Trial a little more nuanced, since otherwise most players in our secularised, science-loving, knowledge-fetishising society would say "Yes, of course do the R&D". 

 

I'm not sure I got you straight, but I don't think the themes are really postmodern. Actually, if I had to fit it in that way I'd see the POE story as a riff on the Enlightenment as tailored to that setting. It's not that the world has no meaning and nothing matters and you just have to do whatever (although that is one of Thaos' fears) - that's not the kind of conclusion reached by any major character or companion in terms of what I've seen so far. Even Wael is not presented as particularly committed to any kind of entropy or fatalism. The point with Wael, exemplified in the Rebury the Scroll quest, is that mysteries are not always problems that have to be solved, but the fact that a mystery confronts you today is itself an interesting and indeed worthwhile part of life. 

 

The short answer would be that what you attribute to N&O I would also support. POE isn't about a world where there are no gods and humans just do whatever, and it's not even a world where humans are freed from primitive religious beliefs and go forth into a better world. It's a story where the objective 'fact' that the gods don't exist isn't even the point - the point is always what knowing can do to you, what not knowing or forgetting or wondering can do to you. 

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Yep, I love the fact that animancy is basically a speculative science and you never get a single instance of it going right. This also makes your decision at the Trial a little more nuanced, since otherwise most players in our secularised, science-loving, knowledge-fetishising society would say "Yes, of course do the R&D". 

 

 

I'm slightly miffed at the idea that even its supposed masters have seemingly only used it to build Machinery of Puppy-Kicking Evil.

 

 

 

The point with Wael, exemplified in the Rebury the Scroll quest, is that mysteries are not always problems that have to be solved, but the fact that a mystery confronts you today is itself an interesting and indeed worthwhile part of life. 

 

The short answer would be that what you attribute to N&O I would also support. POE isn't about a world where there are no gods and humans just do whatever, and it's not even a world where humans are freed from primitive religious beliefs and go forth into a better world. It's a story where the objective 'fact' that the gods don't exist isn't even the point - the point is always what knowing can do to you, what not knowing or forgetting or wondering can do to you. 

 

 

I'm just not sure it's really explored. Although I'll give you that the ending lends itself to support the italicized part really well  :lol:

 

(Well, aside from the fact that every NPC acts like it totally is, but that's beside the point.)


"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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I didn't really have any problems with the motivation in the game though I think it could've done a much better job on pushing home the insanity part of being a Watcher and being Awakened. That part could use some work. Other than that, I dunno... I don't particularly need much motivation in games I guess. I know lots of people had problems in New Vegas. "Why would I ever want to go after the dude who shot me in the head? He's DANGEROUS!" But... I want to play the game, that's my initial motivation for wanting to follow the story. And, hopefully, that story will allow me some measure of tailoring it for my own "taste" so to speak. I didn't give a crap about the story in either of the BGs (and well, I hated the Imoen part of it to tell the truth), but coming up with a motivation for my character in a game isn't exactly hard.

 

I'm kinda surprised that people were let down by Act III. I think it was unusually strong for... being an Act III in big RPGs. I thought Twin Elms was a good area and interacting with the gods was a real highlight for me in the game. I wish they had done it different so Twin Elms wasn't gated off though. 

One of the weakest things in the game for me was also the rioting in Defiance Bay. Now, that part is fine to me... But when you're allowed back into Defiance Bay, it's disappointing to see that everything is basically the same. I totally get the huge work that'd be needed to redo the areas, but if they were not up for that task, I think they should've written the story differently to avoid that.

 

I also liked that the final dungeon was short. I *hate* how in RPGs you usually have to wade through an army of enemies before getting to the final boss, especially since the story at that point is usually at its "peak" and ready to resolve. While the ending fight could've been cooler (did like the statues though, they looked nice) I was very happy that it was short and to the point. The dialogues were extremely satisfying to me and I felt like I could really express my character through them.

 

Had no problem at all with the ending slides, I thought they were nicely written. One problem with slides is that it's hard to "dazzle" people now. I mean, I've seen a fair amount of ending slides in games now and you kinda... know what to expect from the endings based on what I chose you know? So in that regard, it'd be nice to have a cinematic certain something in addition to them I guess, just to make it feel a bit more "meaty" (Dragon Age: Origins had a great ending in my opinion) but for the scope of a game such as this? Nah. I was pretty pleased overall.

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Agreed, there needed to be a little more to the Watcher's madness, and even more effective would have been to see more of the consequences of the hollowborn. The Sanitarium animancer's failed demonstration of a soul transplant in the town square? Why didn't they show it live, you approach it and there's a text sequence? Why can't we visit some place where hollowborn are quarantined, or places where abandoned hollowborn children eke out an animalistic living? 

 

Twin Elms was fantastic, and I also support the shorter final dungeon. 

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I think there could've been more to the Watcher's madness as well, but did any of you wear headphones while playing? The whispers threw me for a loop. Sometimes I'd forget about them, and hear them, and go towards something I'd already explored on the map thinking there was an encounter there. It was a nice touch.

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What frustrated me the most about the ending, was that I couldn't cast the "Gods" down.  I'm hoping to do that in a sequel though.

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The ending was frustrating for two reasons for me.

 

First, the whole Elmtree area lacked quests and depth. The towns did not feel alive and it felt very rushed compared to Defiance bay, which was overall brilliantly designed. The gods quests were just way to convenient to be meaningful. I mean, you are in direct communication with the gods of the world and you just have to go to the next area to complete all of them. I really liked the fact that you spoke to the gods and that you needed to gain their favor but It should had given you several hours of content just to finish one of those quests.

 

Secondly, the Iovara character failed miserably. She comes out of nowhere, you have no connection to here and you have no reason for caring for her or what she says but she gives you the supposed punchline of the whole story. The punchline she gives you is even worse than the fact the she is so suddenly introduced. It is like an atheist telling a christian that god does not exist. Would the christian reply "Oh, really! I have never thought of that. I stop believing right away!!!"? It is not only moronic for her to say that but it is also missing the whole point. She really cheapened the whole ending for me.

 

What did make a nice ending for me, though, was that I went to Hylea to help me and thought I would be loyal to her. But then I met Wael, who I sincerely agreed with, who not only gave me a different way to end my journey but also the possibility to betray a god. I felt Hylea's anger when I chose Wael's option and it was later shown in the ending screens what the consequences were of that betrayal.

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The ending was frustrating for two reasons for me.

 

First, the whole Elmtree area lacked quests and depth. The towns did not feel alive and it felt very rushed compared to Defiance bay, which was overall brilliantly designed. The gods quests were just way to convenient to be meaningful. I mean, you are in direct communication with the gods of the world and you just have to go to the next area to complete all of them. I really liked the fact that you spoke to the gods and that you needed to gain their favor but It should had given you several hours of content just to finish one of those quests.

 

Secondly, the Iovara character failed miserably. She comes out of nowhere, you have no connection to here and you have no reason for caring for her or what she says but she gives you the supposed punchline of the whole story. The punchline she gives you is even worse than the fact the she is so suddenly introduced. It is like an atheist telling a christian that god does not exist. Would the christian reply "Oh, really! I have never thought of that. I stop believing right away!!!"? It is not only moronic for her to say that but it is also missing the whole point. She really cheapened the whole ending for me.

 

Defiance Bay has a slew of its own issues though. From the way the Dozens/Knights rivalry is implemented (consider the amount of people that unwittingly end up "supporting" the Dozens and realize it all too late) to the way post-riot city looks like. Twin Elms offered a thorough Glanfathan exposition with its denizens being responsive to almost everything you do (with the exception of Ethik Nol massacre  :facepalm:  ), whereas divine quests offered interesting dilemmas to solve.

 

As for Iovara, she gives the Watcher the story of how these particular eleven gods were manmade, manufactured in a very obvious fashion. Not sure how that is comparable to Christians and atheists. 

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Тhe ending is another gripe I have with the story. Iovara coming out of nowhere and suddenly being very important even though we aren't given a reason for her importance. She just flat out telling us "lololol gods aren't real, DUH". The ending-tron 4000 alla Deus Ex: Human Revolution - choose your flavor of soul, which I'm entirely positive won't come up again in the sequel/expansion or it will but it will be so trivial as to be pointless. That's almost an objective fact, because we have like 7 choices and they having to write and create 7 different world states is madness on a developmental standpoint. Thaos completing his quest would still stop the hollow births which was 1/3rd of your quest (even though it wasn't). He empowering Woedica wouldn't matter to anyone except the other gods since they are programmed to not be able to affect the world in a physical way, unless they magically can now which opens another can of plot holes like "Why don't the other gods take more direct action against Thaos then?" "Why don't they have "Favored" people too?" "This universe doesn't have Ao to govern the gods, so they'll just wreck **** up" etc. etc.

I think the third act was just rushed and that's why nothing in it makes any sense.

Edited by Christliar
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So, I just finished at 100 hours, level 12 and all that jazz. 

 

As for the ending with the gods and such, I didn't have a problem with that. I think those people who are saying there is no functional difference between gods and super powerful constructs are being willfully obtuse. 

 

My problem was, what the hell, grim darkiest of grim dark. I thought I had been fairly completioniest (I stopped with the bounties because they got tedious), but man, I want SOME goods to happen from my involvement. I mean, I didn't particularly like Guilded Vale, but having Raedric come back and rule over the smoking, corpse infested is a bit much. And Heritage hill? Did I miss something that would have stopped life from being quite so ****ty in Defiance Bay? I loved the companion stories, but freaking Dyrford, I hate that place, but apparently that is the place to be afterwards. 

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So, I just finished at 100 hours, level 12 and all that jazz. 

 

As for the ending with the gods and such, I didn't have a problem with that. I think those people who are saying there is no functional difference between gods and super powerful constructs are being willfully obtuse. 

 

My problem was, what the hell, grim darkiest of grim dark. I thought I had been fairly completioniest (I stopped with the bounties because they got tedious), but man, I want SOME goods to happen from my involvement. I mean, I didn't particularly like Guilded Vale, but having Raedric come back and rule over the smoking, corpse infested is a bit much. And Heritage hill? Did I miss something that would have stopped life from being quite so ****ty in Defiance Bay? I loved the companion stories, but freaking Dyrford, I hate that place, but apparently that is the place to be afterwards. 

You missed the quest to kill resurrected Raedric. Questgiver

can be found in the Twin Elms inn - Celestial Sapling.

Even then it doesn't really thrive though.

Same with the Heritage Hill - you had the option to destroy the construct. I left it intact FOR SCIENCE too, and it blew up right in my face. Thanks, Obsidian. ><

Edited by Primislas

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As for the ending with the gods and such, I didn't have a problem with that. I think those people who are saying there is no functional difference between gods and super powerful constructs are being willfully obtuse. 

 

About that... That's the thing that I liked the least in the ending, "fake" gods being such a big deal.

I'm sorry but I just don't see it. And I don't think It's me being obtuse or anything. Just seems like a big "meh, whatever, it's the same for people".

 

I mean, maybe it's just a cultural thing? Me being a die hard atheist, it just doesn't ring the same compared to other players?

I also feel like there's little build up to it, that it just comes out randomly during act 4. Maybe it could have helped otherwise.

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Yep, I love the fact that animancy is basically a speculative science and you never get a single instance of it going right. This also makes your decision at the Trial a little more nuanced, since otherwise most players in our secularised, science-loving, knowledge-fetishising society would say "Yes, of course do the R&D". 

 

I'm not sure I got you straight, but I don't think the themes are really postmodern. Actually, if I had to fit it in that way I'd see the POE story as a riff on the Enlightenment as tailored to that setting. It's not that the world has no meaning and nothing matters and you just have to do whatever (although that is one of Thaos' fears) - that's not the kind of conclusion reached by any major character or companion in terms of what I've seen so far. Even Wael is not presented as particularly committed to any kind of entropy or fatalism. The point with Wael, exemplified in the Rebury the Scroll quest, is that mysteries are not always problems that have to be solved, but the fact that a mystery confronts you today is itself an interesting and indeed worthwhile part of life. 

 

The short answer would be that what you attribute to N&O I would also support. POE isn't about a world where there are no gods and humans just do whatever, and it's not even a world where humans are freed from primitive religious beliefs and go forth into a better world. It's a story where the objective 'fact' that the gods don't exist isn't even the point - the point is always what knowing can do to you, what not knowing or forgetting or wondering can do to you. 

 

Well the problem is that the opposers of animancy, such as the Dozens representative at the Duke's hearing, use pretty piss poor arguments against it. Oh, things man was not meant to know! Oh, science and progress is bad! it's barely above ''think of the children!'' level of discourse. 

 

Besides, animancy was sabotaged by the Leaden Key in a major way. I'm pretty sure Thaos wouldn't have bothered to scuttle the efforts of Brackenbury if they weren't reasonably close to a breakthrough. And of course, no one but Thaos knew exactly why the Legacy existed in the first place, but that's not really a reason not to try and fix it. 

 

I also approve of the shorter final dungeon. I don't need to have swarms of enemies thrown at me before tackling the final boss. There's the Endless Paths for that. Thaos himself could have been a bit harder, however. Maybe an extra statue on Hard?

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I was expecting that game would return to free play mode after the last quest. I had places to go, monsters to kill, towns to burn, ah!

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As for the ending with the gods and such, I didn't have a problem with that. I think those people who are saying there is no functional difference between gods and super powerful constructs are being willfully obtuse.

 

I mean, maybe it's just a cultural thing? Me being a die hard atheist, it just doesn't ring the same compared to other players?

.

Nah, it isn't that. All the more reason to share it and celebrate to me. We can finally bring those phonies down!

 

For me the big deal is it makes thaos' actions and motivations incoherent. To prevent theoretical suffering and upheaval in the name of false gods, he's going to cause real suffering and upheaval in.. the name of false gods. Uh... Well done, O high priest of stupid. Granted, it would still be horrible if they were real gods, but that he knowingly perpetrated his own lie, which had a net result of only suffering, this seems fairly absurd. Extra pain icing on the suffering cake, as it were.

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I'm pretty sure Thaos was just that far gone. You won't have to go very far to find humans in real history who were willing to commit horrific atrocities in the perpetuation of a lie. When you go that far down the rabbit hole, and pursue something so single-mindedly for at least 2,000 years, your psychology literally does not have any room for doubt, self-reflection, or logical consistency. I'm sure watching/helping his fellow Engwithans commit mass-suicide to create the gods they so desperately wanted really screwed him up psychologically, too.

In that regard, Thaos is well-written as a supremely broken man. Very much a "Utopia Justifies The Means" villain.

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I'm pretty sure Thaos was just that far gone. You won't have to go very far to find humans in real history who were willing to commit horrific atrocities in the perpetuation of a lie. When you go that far down the rabbit hole, and pursue something so single-mindedly for at least 2,000 years, your psychology literally does not have any room for doubt, self-reflection, or logical consistency. I'm sure watching/helping his fellow Engwithans commit mass-suicide to create the gods they so desperately wanted really screwed him up psychologically, too.

In that regard, Thaos is well-written as a supremely broken man. Very much a "Utopia Justifies The Means" villain.

Beware those who hunt monsters lest ye become one. Thaos spent so much time in fear of the potential chaos of a world without gods that he became something that could be seen as worse or at least equally horrific. In short, I agree.

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