Does race and gender matter?

[Zwiebelchen]

I know we haven't seen much of the game yet except for the backer beta. But since streams are out, I think some people might know more about this (I still resisted watching the streams because I don't want to get spoilered):

 

Do my race and gender choice matter in the game? I can see a heavy emphasis on the reputation scores (benevolent, clever, etc.) and attributes/skills, but are there also meaningful choices based on race and gender?

 

For example, is it possible to select "flirty" choices depending on the gender of the NPC you're talking to? Or are the dialogues mostly indifferent of race/gender choice?

I could imagine being a godlike could unlock some dialogue options here and there; but what about the "less conflict" races?

Edited March 24, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[Selk]

I'm not sure about it but I think that the character race will change something in the dialogues.

 

For instance, if you're playing a godlike, the NPC reactions will be different than if you're playing a human.

[Tartantyco]

You will occasionally have different conversation options available based on your gender and race.

[Zwiebelchen]

Hmm, let me rephrase that question into "Does it matter in a way that affects gameplay"?

 

For example, triggering an unavoidable fight if your character happens to be an elf and that guy simply hates elves? So, if you're not an elf or have one in your party, they would just leave you alone?

Edited March 24, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[Aramed]

I'd bet that some Godlikes would get in some unavoidable fights no matter what.

[Luckmann]

Mechanically, race has a small effect and gender unfortunately has none. But as far as roleplaying goes, it does matter once in a while, yes. I would doubt that they'd make either of them matter as much as I would personally think it should (because "boohoo my choices matter and my mary sue is being discriminated against in a make-believe universe bawww") but there are at the very least comments on it at times.

 

  On 3/24/2015 at 11:55 AM, Zwiebelchen said:

Hmm, let me rephrase that question into "Does it matter in a way that affects gameplay"?

 

For example, triggering an unavoidable fight if your character happens to be an elf and that guy simply hates elves? So, if you're not an elf or have one in your party, they would just leave you alone?

 

Apart from the (usually small, but it can depend a bit on build/class) mechanical benefits, probably not, no. I will be blown away if Obsidian have been brave enough to actually subject female characters to lecherous and despicable man-pigs or select godlikes to brutal racism, but I don't think so, and I haven't heard anything about it.

It's hard to tell for sure until we have the full game in our hands, but going by experience, yeah, no, nothing major.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Luckmann

[Fredward]

  On 3/24/2015 at 12:04 PM, Aramed said:

I'd bet that some Godlikes would get in some unavoidable fights no matter what.

 

 

I'm hoping this is the case. Or like a Death godlike showing up at a backwards village and suddenly being blamed for all the ills that have befallen them.

[Zwiebelchen]

  On 3/24/2015 at 12:22 PM, Luckmann said:

Apart from the (usually small, but it can depend a bit on build/class) mechanical benefits, probably not, no. I will be blown away if Obsidian have been brave enough to actually subject female characters to lecherous and despicable man-pigs or select godlikes to brutal racism, but I don't think so, and I haven't heard anything about it.

 

It's hard to tell for sure until we have the full game in our hands, but going by experience, yeah, no, nothing major.

 

Well, that's pretty much what I expected. And honestly, I don't even blame them for that. We got the awesome character trait reputation AND attribute/skill based responses. And those are already plenty (judging from the BB). I don't think it would be fair to blame them if they haven't written extra dialogue for every possible combination of gender/race/skills/attributes/reputation.

 

So, yeah, umm, at least that means I can freely play what I want. But it might be an option for expansions to add when PoE becomes a success.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[Sherr]

  On 3/24/2015 at 12:28 PM, Fredward said:

 

  On 3/24/2015 at 12:04 PM, Aramed said:

I'd bet that some Godlikes would get in some unavoidable fights no matter what.

 

 

I'm hoping this is the case. Or like a Death godlike showing up at a backwards village and suddenly being blamed for all the ills that have befallen them.

 

 

it would be not too logical to me. When you name someone with different appearance as "Godlike" you would think that this people are above others not below. I think if people blame Godlikes in all their problems, they wouldn't be called "Godlikes" more something like "Cursed".

Edited March 24, 2015 by Sherr

[Fredward]

  On 3/24/2015 at 12:50 PM, Sherr said:

 

  On 3/24/2015 at 12:28 PM, Fredward said:

 

  On 3/24/2015 at 12:04 PM, Aramed said:

I'd bet that some Godlikes would get in some unavoidable fights no matter what.

 

 

I'm hoping this is the case. Or like a Death godlike showing up at a backwards village and suddenly being blamed for all the ills that have befallen them.

 

 

it would be not too logical to me. When you name someone with different appearance as "Godlike" you would think that this people are above others not below. I think if people blame Godlikes in all their problems, they wouldn't be called "Godlikes" more something like "Cursed".

 

 

 

As far as I know the name 'godlike' just means 'touched by the gods' but that does NOT necessarily equate reverence. Wiki. I'm not even sure gods in this setting receive quite the same level of respect they do in other settings.

[Luckmann]

  On 3/24/2015 at 12:40 PM, Zwiebelchen said:

 

  On 3/24/2015 at 12:22 PM, Luckmann said:

Apart from the (usually small, but it can depend a bit on build/class) mechanical benefits, probably not, no. I will be blown away if Obsidian have been brave enough to actually subject female characters to lecherous and despicable man-pigs or select godlikes to brutal racism, but I don't think so, and I haven't heard anything about it.

 

It's hard to tell for sure until we have the full game in our hands, but going by experience, yeah, no, nothing major.

 

Well, that's pretty much what I expected. And honestly, I don't even blame them for that. We got the awesome character trait reputation AND attribute/skill based responses. And those are already plenty (judging from the BB). I don't think it would be fair to blame them if they haven't written extra dialogue for every possible combination of gender/race/skills/attributes/reputation.

 

So, yeah, umm, at least that means I can freely play what I want. But it might be an option for expansions to add when PoE becomes a success.

 

No blame intended, the game will probably be a blast either way, I'm just always wanting more.

 

There's just no pleasing some people.

 

  On 3/24/2015 at 12:50 PM, Sherr said:

it would be not too logical to me. When you name someone with different appearance as "Godlike" you would think that this people are above others not below. I think if people blame Godlikes in all their problems, they wouldn't be called "Godlikes" more something like "Cursed".

Godlikes are... badly named, if you ask me. But the point I wanted to make was that not all gods are venerated equally, and some are more feared than worshipped. For example, a god that you might often to consider the most-praised one, the God of Light and Redemption, Eothas, is actually banned in the region in which the game takes place (or at least most of the region that we know the game takes place in).

 

Death Godlikes (or "Deathlikes", as I prefer to call them) are often considered an ill omen and many are killed at birth. Meanwhile, Fire Godlikes are venerated by those that favour Magran, the god of War and Fire.

 

In another region (was it Vailia?) Godlikes even lack many basic rights, and are considered genderless because they cannot procreate ( ), which means that they are not subject to a lot of laws and can't get married, and so on.

 

Being a Godlike can be both a blessing and a cursed. They are not called gifted, nor are they called cursed, they are "simply" influenced by forces that the populace traditionally refer to as gods, whatever that means depends on where you are and who you ask.

 

I wonder what a Godlike of Skaen looks like.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Luckmann

[gkathellar]

PoE is set in a part of Eora (the Dyrwood) that does tend to place women in domestic roles, but to nowhere near the extent they would have been in much of the world when it was at roughly the same degree of technological advancement. One imagines that, locally, this is a matter of pragmatism; Dyrwood does business and has alliances with people who have more fluid, or even inverted, gender roles relative to its own.

 

How much we'll see that come up in game is an open question. Probably not a tremendous amount, if only to avoid starting a big stupid foofaraw.

 

(And, for the record: the flavor text for the Gender screen in character creation is by far the best example of such that I have ever seen in any CRPG ever.)

[Buddhist]

OMG guys race and gender DON'T MATTER.

 

Everyone's equal! Jeez.

[Fredward]

I like how the anti-SJWs feel the need to make themselves known before any SJW have made a peep. For what it's worth gender discrimination, in my mind, is fine if it makes sense (as much as it ever does) and is consistent within the setting. And there's a difference between it being present as a result of the world the story is set in and it being present as some kind of bias of the creator.

[Elerond]

Class and Race have little impact out side giving flavor to conversations.

Here is one example how they use player's race in conversation strings 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

<DefaultText>"I know that!" He smashes his club into the ground and takes a long, bracing breath. "My chances are still better here, [Player Race]."</DefaultText>

 

But in some cases they have special options for different races and classes like here is for example

 

This first is their conditional call function that check in conversation if player's class is cipher 

<FlowChartNode xsi:type="PlayerResponseNode">
      <NodeID>40</NodeID>
      <Comments />
      <PackageID>1</PackageID>
      <ContainerNodeID>-1</ContainerNodeID>
      <Links>
        <FlowChartLink xsi:type="DialogueLink">
          <FromNodeID>40</FromNodeID>
          <ToNodeID>43</ToNodeID>
          <PointsToGhost>false</PointsToGhost>
          <ClassExtender>
            <ExtendedProperties />
          </ClassExtender>
          <RandomWeight>1</RandomWeight>
          <PlayQuestionNodeVO>true</PlayQuestionNodeVO>
          <QuestionNodeTextDisplay>ShowOnce</QuestionNodeTextDisplay>
        </FlowChartLink>
      </Links>
      <ClassExtender>
        <ExtendedProperties />
      </ClassExtender>
      <Conditionals>
        <Operator>And</Operator>
        <Components>
          <ExpressionComponent xsi:type="ConditionalCall">
            <Data>
              <FullName>Boolean IsPlayerClass(Class)</FullName>
              <Parameters>
                <string>Cipher</string>
              </Parameters>
            </Data>
            <Not>false</Not>
            <Operator>And</Operator>
          </ExpressionComponent>
        </Components>
      </Conditionals>
      <OnEnterScripts />
      <OnExitScripts />
      <OnUpdateScripts />
      <NotSkippable>false</NotSkippable>
      <IsQuestionNode>false</IsQuestionNode>
      <IsTempText>false</IsTempText>
      <PlayType>Normal</PlayType>
      <Persistence>None</Persistence>
      <NoPlayRandomWeight>0</NoPlayRandomWeight>
      <DisplayType>Conversation</DisplayType>
      <VOFilename />
      <VoiceType />
      <ExcludedSpeakerClasses />
      <ExcludedListenerClasses />
      <IncludedSpeakerClasses />
      <IncludedListenerClasses />
    </FlowChartNode>

And if player's class is cipher this is extra conversation option that is offered for player in this particular case

<Entry>
      <ID>40</ID>
      <DefaultText>[Wipe Aelys' mind of the vengeful essence.] "I'll free Aelys from him, and I'll free her from you, too."</DefaultText>
      <FemaleText />
    </Entry>

For gender I can't say how much it matters but every conversation entry has that FemaleText tag, but in beta's files they are in most cases empty, and most cases where it is used it is used to change masculine pronoun to feminine.

 

Like this for example

 

<DefaultText>"I should thank you for killing the old man, but now my weeks of preparation are useless." He looks at the motionless body at his feet.

"And the only story people will know is that Nestor Harond was murdered by a brigand in Dyrford. Not that he had impregnated his own niece to give himself a noble heir."

He turns to the other hooded figures. "Kill him."</DefaultText>
      <FemaleText>"I should thank you for killing the old man, but now my weeks of preparation are useless." He looks at the motionless body at his feet.

"And the only story people will know is that Nestor Harond was murdered by a brigand in Dyrford. Not that he had impregnated his own niece to give himself a noble heir."

He turns to the other hooded figures. "Kill her."</FemaleText>

 

 

But anyway class, race and gender has some significance in conversations and in some cases they can offer options that aren't available to other options, but mostly they probably used to just add flavor in text (that is what I have understood from interviews and what I see in beta's files).

 

 

[Fredward]

Not sure why but I find the 'default' text vs the 'female' text hilarious.

[sparklecat]

  On 3/24/2015 at 3:58 PM, Fredward said:

Not sure why but I find the 'default' text vs the 'female' text hilarious.

I would've gone with irritating.  Or maybe depressing.  The opposite of female is male, not default.

Edited March 24, 2015 by sparklecat

[Michael_Galt]

This makes me want to play a fire godlike Bleak Walker...  Tell me that wouldn't be perfect.  I suppose that the death godlikes could work as well, but war and fire seems more appropriate to me. 

 

And, Arcanum made race and gender matter- just saying

[Luckmann]

  On 3/24/2015 at 4:15 PM, sparklecat said:

 

  On 3/24/2015 at 3:58 PM, Fredward said:

Not sure why but I find the 'default' text vs the 'female' text hilarious.

 

I would've gone with irritating.  Or maybe depressing.  The opposite of female is male, not default.

 

 

Oh, no, misogony in programming code! Quick, get to the Tumblrmobile!

 

 

  On 3/24/2015 at 4:58 PM, Michael_Galt said:

This makes me want to play a fire godlike Bleak Walker...  Tell me that wouldn't be perfect.  I suppose that the death godlikes could work as well, but war and fire seems more appropriate to me. 

 

And, Arcanum made race and gender matter- just saying

 

Bleak Walkers are pretty much Blackguards, so I just feel like deathlikes are more appropriate, but you're not *wrong* with the firelikes, for sure. I wonder if there's any opportunity to set things on fire as the fastest way to end a conflict...

[Gairnulf]

Imagine what this genre has been reduced to if such questions are asked. It makes me angry.

[DruidX]

yes it matters for the dialogue sometimes you will get special options

 

See:

 

Pillars of Eternity: Special Dialog Options

[Longknife]

  On 3/24/2015 at 11:45 AM, Tartantyco said:

You will occasionally have different conversation options available based on your gender and race.

 

 

But will the game provide conversation options for my demisexual heteromantic transgender half-Orlan?

[Fredward]

  On 3/24/2015 at 4:15 PM, sparklecat said:

 

  On 3/24/2015 at 3:58 PM, Fredward said:

Not sure why but I find the 'default' text vs the 'female' text hilarious.

I would've gone with irritating.  Or maybe depressing.  The opposite of female is male, not default.

 

 

The hilarious was tinged with bitter disillusionment. and male and female aren't necessarily opposites

 

 

  On 3/24/2015 at 5:05 PM, Luckmann said:

 

Oh, no, misogony in programming code! Quick, get to the Tumblrmobile!

 

 

I've always wondered why people feel the need to mock such things. Those who simply do not care simply would not bother to comment. Resentment? Anger? The idea that if you can make something laughable it excuses you from having to consider whether there might be a point? Exasperation?

 

[sparklecat]

  On 3/24/2015 at 5:46 PM, Fredward said:

 

  On 3/24/2015 at 4:15 PM, sparklecat said:

 

  On 3/24/2015 at 3:58 PM, Fredward said:

Not sure why but I find the 'default' text vs the 'female' text hilarious.

I would've gone with irritating.  Or maybe depressing.  The opposite of female is male, not default.

 

 

The hilarious was tinged with bitter disillusionment. and male and female aren't necessarily opposites

Yeah, fair enough; I was just trying to keep my criticism concise.

 

 

Luckmann, if you think a general attitude that male = default wouldn't spill over outside the... oh, why am I even bothering.  Screw it.  You have fun with that mocking stuff other people genuinely care about, buddy.

[W.MacKinnon]

People quoting on the male gender being "default". The logical assumption is the programmer was either male, typed first then coded the female option second. Alternate viable reason is that dialog trees(simple coding) are created with a external program; where trees are branched by adding alternate choices; in this case player variable is female. The external coding program actually makes a lot of sense, so writers can easily edit code.