Update 91: Closing in on March 26th!

[Elerond]

I must confess that poll and update about it gave me impression that idea was to take game disc out of the box so that they would be able to ship other physical rewards to the backers so that they (all of them including those of that aren't from US) would receive their rewards before launch. Because if we get rewards after launch date I would say that then there is no difference between getting rewards week or two later or getting them 4-5 week later with game disc, at least that is case for me. But I voted to get other rewards with game disc so it would not had changed my vote.

 

But if it comfort anybody I think that people that have ordered physical copy of the game from Amazon.de or any other store that sell physical copy will not receive their copy in launch day as Obsidian/Paradox plans to put day one version of game on disc for us and I don't think that they will make several prints of game before launch, meaning that also those people will need to wait until Paradox is able to ship copies of game to stores and then wait stores to ships it to them. There is one bizarre option for European backers, depending on where they print game disc it is possible that European backers will get their game disc before they get those other rewards, as if Paradox prints disc in Europe and start to ship them in launch date to backers then most of European backers will get game disc within a week from  release as typical shipment from one European country to another takes 3-5 days (when you use your standard postal services).

[Elerond]

 

Being one of the guys that ordered a Signed CE; I never thought the game would be sealed. Isn't the box signed? Not on the plastic wrap but the package itself? Was Obsidian supposed to re-wrap the boxes in plastic after the developers signed them? Figured it was always going to be just pop open the box and put the disc inside after delivery; type deal. (Am I wrong?)

 

Hmmm, havn't thought about that. But a true collector would want it to be sealed and I automatically assumed that only true collectors would back at that pledge lvl. Therefor the signatures would be on the plastic wrap. But technically your interpretation is a valid one...

 

 

Obsidian released pictures where members of PoE's developing team signed game covers before they are put on game boxes

 

[LuccA]

@LordCrash

 

If you think that playing the game without the physical content would be less interesting, than just wait a couple of weeks to start your playthrough. A lot of people are waiting for the first patches to have a less buggy first experience of the game. In the meantime, you'll have your digital stuff to pass the time.

 

Seriously, how are you guys expecting Obsidian to "make things right"? 'They should make a scratch in every non backer's box to make it fair or something...'. $100+ backers are already getting something that non backers will never get! There'll be no other way of getting a signed collector's box! SO just be happy with what you got dudes... Actually, be happy this game is being done in the first place! 

 

 

The signed boxes look amazing!

Edited March 15, 2015 by LuccA

[Elerond]

@LordCrash

 

If you think that playing the game without the physical content would be less interesting, than just wait a couple of weeks to start your playthrough. A lot of people are waiting for the first patches to have a less buggy first experience of the game. In the meantime, you'll have your digital stuff to pass the time.

 

Seriously, how are you guys expecting Obsidian to "make things right"? 'They should make a scratch in every non backer's box to make it fair or something...'. $100+ backers are already getting something that non backers will never get! There'll be no other way of getting a signed collector's box! SO just be happy with what you got dudes... Actually, be happy this game is being done in the first place! 

 

 

The signed boxes look amazing!

 

Unsealed/incomplete boxes have much less collection value than sealed complete boxes. So if one put $500 dollars to get signed sealed complete box to add it to their collection or to sell some other collector, then I can understand why they feel that they don't get what they paid for, especially if there is no factors that compensate that lost value.

[LuccA]

Yeah, that poll had a very unfair result for sealed box collectors and I wish Obsidian can still do something about it, like holding the physical packing untill disc pressing before shipping it. I voted for the second option in the poll, and if there's still choice, I would like to get my regular box with a disc inside as well. But come on... if a collector's edition is delivered later than the launch date, would it lose value too? That's the complaining I don't get.

[Elerond]

Yeah, that poll had a very unfair result for sealed box collectors and I wish Obsidian can still do something about it, like holding the physical packing untill disc pressing before shipping it. I voted for the second option in the poll, and if there's still choice, I would like to get my regular box with a disc inside as well. But come on... if a collector's edition is delivered later than the launch date, would it lose value too? That's the complaining I don't get.

 

No collector's edition would not lose value if it is delivered later, but when it is made incomplete because of promise that people would get their box in launch date and that promise don't actually hold then there is reason to complain.

[Shiroco]

Elerond got it right. Lord Crash is upset because he pledged for the signed ce version which is going to be incomplete because of the poll. The compensation which was offered there "delivery on time" isn't going to happen for non us backers. So he lost the (for him) important aspect of a sealed complete collectors edition and won't even get his version on release date as advertised in the update regarding the poll for compensation.

 

On another note I hope that BAdler doesn't regret to have posted here since his post only fueled the disappointment. I'm happy to see developers posting on the forums and taking part in discussions and would be sad if such things scare them away.

[giant_frying_pan@yahoo.com]

The whole thing reeks of a last-minute decision and has been a bit of a mess to be honest. That said, the main thing is that the game is happening at all and I'm trying not to lose sight of that.

 

If Obsidian do any future crowd funding drives in the future though, there is 0% chance I will be backing at a high tier or any physical tiers.

[Jotra]

I'll just say that some of you seem to be over reacting quite heavily. I'm also waiting for my signed CE to arrive, but no matter when that happens I'll have the actual game available to me on release day thanks to the digital version key, as does every single person with physical version. Would I love to have my manual, ce book, etc. on that day too sure, but let's be reasonable not act like Obsidian is screwing us over on purpose.

[LordCrash]

@crash

 

Well, to be fair your version isn't available from retailers. Your version isn't produced in europe. Your versions is signed by the devs. So comparing the amazon delivery date with your delivery date isn't fair.

 

I know. But it still left a sour taste in my mouth. I mean, it's obvious that a signed version needs longer to ship. But then you just have to produce the boxes and the physical stuff at an earlier date to compensate for that. That's not what Obsidian did. On the opposite, Brandon admitted in this very thread that they "always knew that European backers wouldn't get their physical stuff on time" as if it was a weird law of nature that kickstarter funded games can't ship game packages on time to people who've pledged for it. And on top of that they've never told us before that this would be the case no matter what, surely not before the voting for example...

 

I just don't agree that this is NOT Obsidian's fault or just something that couldn't have been prevented with better planning. A simple apology combined with this  "it's really not our fault" attitude doesn't fix anything (for me at least). I just don't feel that this issue is taken seriously enough by Obsidian. That's why I'm disappointed and pissed. 

 

 

Edit: And of course I'm still looking forward to the game itself very much. That's not what this discussion is all about.

Edited March 15, 2015 by LordCrash

[lightblade75]

 

 

 

WOW, COUPLE OF WEEKS after release for Europe?

 

Needless to say that this is highly disappointing and unsatisfying. If that was known a few weeks back I'd voted for joint shipping of the physical package and the DVD.

 

It's pretty sad that my expensive signed copy is kind of worthless in two ways now. I'm not able to enjoy my goodies at release or during the first "couple of weeks" after release (during the time in which I've planed to play and finish the game....) and the sealed (?) package doesn't even contain a DVD with the game files because we had to decide on that via public voting before we even knew that the stuff wouldn't arrive on release day...seems like we Europeans are ****ed again without compensation, thanks.

 

 

The goods would have to be shipped today (or earlier) for a lot of people around the world for them to receive the boxed goods by the 26th. It's why I voted for option 2 because I know I wouldn't be receiving the box by the 26th.

 

And also to receive the box with no dvd after the game is released and then the dvd even longer is not something I was looking forward too. If I'm going to have to wait, I'd much rather wait for the complete item with dvd and sealed for my collectors edition. Not a sealed collectors edition with no dvd and for the dvd to turn up later. But then I suppose there's a lot of naivety from people who voted in the poll. 

 

 

On tops, i think it's quite unfair to let people of various pledge levels vote on the same thing.

 

It's not a huge deal to get a regular physical game pack without DVD if you can get a digital code at release.

 

But a $500 signed collector's edition is a completely different league. People really buy that because they want to COLLECT it. Part of collecting is having an unbroken, unsealed box. A box that won't contain a game DVD now.

 

That way Obsidian really gave a big **** you to their biggest fans, to those who really paid a lot during the kickstarter. Sure, we're just a few, who cares about us. It's a majority poll so let's listen to all those $60 DVD box customers (or just anyone on the forum no matter which box they've pledged for or whether they've pledged for anthing at all...) how they decide how much the collector's edition will be worth in the end...

 

And now we don't even get the boxes on time. That's so ****ed up, I'm really kind of speechless. Huge disappointment for me and probably for most other high tier backers, additionally here in Europe...

 

 

There was always going to be a shipping lag for Europe. The decision to ship the goods sans disc was made to make sure that the lag wasn't extended by a few additional weeks.

 

The realities of shipping into Europe are that things take quite a bit longer to get where they are going and the packages have to go through more taxes and red tape. Hopefully, having Paradox ship from inside of Europe will reduce some of this time/cost, but there wasn't a lot we could do to get it to folks faster.

 

If we have lost your trust in this matter, I apologize, but we are doing everything we can to get European backers their items as fast as possible. Unfortunately, we are kind of at the mercy of shipping speeds at this point.

 

 

So far understandable, but as I payed 20 $ for shipping a small game box (1kg weight?) this is a lot of money, even for shipping it to Germany. In this case I had expected shipping via airmail. Airmail can only take a week including customs. I can't help but feel dissapointed.

[Gairnulf]

We are giving people Steam editions that we have matched to their tiers. On Monday I will make a post showing the different mappings. Also, everyone will be able to download their rewards from our backer portal, as well.

Do I understand correctly that tomorrow I'll be able to download the digital almanach, strategy guide, digital collector's book, etc?

[Brishingr]

As a person that works in logistic, I can certainly tell you crap happens, a freight truck bound in form Houston gets slowed down, delayed, stopped, ect. It will effect the entire day. 

I cant help think of this issue as the same one with Wasteland 2 swag. I didnt get my full package instill just a few days ago. Did I except it all to be day 1...no, I honestly expect it to be delayed. Did I except my signed box to be on time...again no, but for it to arrive around the 2nd of Jan, without a notice. (Also the SOLE reason I refused physical goods with Torment).

 

Its the same with this, never ask a person something his does not know. in the case programs that are trying to deal with multi-national shipping. It certainly not helping that friends in Europe are getting the worse of it. And I wish it would be as fast as can be. However itll get there when it can. In the meantime we still have the game to play, and the digital goodies. 

[Lephys]

Lephys-

 

Didn't you know Obsidian runs the Port of LA? And that Feargus is the head of the LA Dock Worker's Union? And that Obsidian employs seers that who specifically look into the future so they know when labor disputes will occur? How naive of you...

I didn't know all that. I mean, I knew they were thinking about opening a rift in timespace and sending the goods straight through to all the international folks, instantly, but they just couldn't pencil that into their schedules around all their WoW raids. 8P

[LordCrash]

As a person that works in logistic, I can certainly tell you crap happens, a freight truck bound in form Houston gets slowed down, delayed, stopped, ect. It will effect the entire day. 

I cant help think of this issue as the same one with Wasteland 2 swag. I didnt get my full package instill just a few days ago. Did I except it all to be day 1...no, I honestly expect it to be delayed. Did I except my signed box to be on time...again no, but for it to arrive around the 2nd of Jan, without a notice. (Also the SOLE reason I refused physical goods with Torment).

 

Its the same with this, never ask a person something his does not know. in the case programs that are trying to deal with multi-national shipping. It certainly not helping that friends in Europe are getting the worse of it. And I wish it would be as fast as can be. However itll get there when it can. In the meantime we still have the game to play, and the digital goodies. 

 

As someone who has worked in several bigger and smaller companies before I can certainly tell you that crap happens - but that you also have to bear the consequences and to actively monitor your deliveries. Port is blocked? Ok, bad luck. Get your stuff to another port of send it by airmail ASAP. As a company you have a certain responsiblity and a reputation to lose after all...

 

And it surely doesn't help to not being completely honest and upfront about that and showing TRUE regret from the top of the company. A small apologize somewhere buried in a thread (not even in the actual update text) is certainly not the right way to tell all the European backers that they won't get their physical stuff on time or even shortly after release.

 

If you can't get physical stuff right next time just don't do it at all (aks Larian, they tell you the very same thing...). I certainly won't pledge for any high tier physical stuff if Obsidian ever does a kickstarter again, that's sure.

Edited March 15, 2015 by LordCrash

[Leferd]

LordCrash,

 

You've said your piece, and restated again and again ad nauseum. We get it. You're pissed. Let's not beat the dead horse any longer.

 

Look, Obsidian don't know jack about shipping and logistics. They have no experience with it, and likely no legitimate consultant for it. They are an independent video game studio composed of twenty and thirty year olds, a majority of whom have never worn a collared shirt in their professional life, let alone been inside a shipping and receiving warehouse.

 

They made lots of mistakes with kickstarter and logistics. That's to be expected. They've probably made tons of mistakes in customer service as well. They don't have trained personnel in dealing with these type of issues.

 

I feel bad for Brandon, Rose, and whoever else is doing the background work in getting kickstarter rewards out the door. They are human and I'm sure they feel bad at your disappointment. They have a lot on their plate that is out of their realm of expertise. When they made the pitches and came up with the rewards, I guarantee you they thought they could do all this not foreseeing the routine SNAFU's that are bound to happen. Why? Because they are video game developers who have absolutely no experience with manufacturing and shipping logistics.

 

Brandon probably made the best mea culpa he can make, or knows how to do.

 

They probably shouldn't have come up with some of the rewards they came up with. It would have all been a lot easier if everything was digital, or atleast narrowed the scope of physical rewards.

 

Speaking of which, these are exactly what they are. Kickstarter rewards. Kickstarter is not a store. You agreed to back Obsidian with your hard-earned money to Obsidian not to purchase a Collector's Edition of Project Eternity, but instead to help fund a game in the classic infinity engine mold, and in return, you'll get a Collector's Edition reward. The spirit of Kickstarter is to help crowdfund these ideas and dreams into reality with the promise that you'll get something in return for your pledge.

 

Yes, technically Obsidian is late on their promises. Yes, they made mistakes. But they are doing what they can to make the best of their situation. In the end you'll still get your reward, and you'll still get to play the game on release, and hopefully take pride in the fact that you helped make this dream into reality.

 

 

 

tl;dr --Dude, step off. Obsidian is out of their depth in these matters and are doing what they can. You'll still get your rewards. Enjoy the game!

[Darkpriest]

@Leferd,

 

There is a world of difference in between "force majeure" such as a dockworker strike, and withholding a critical information from not knowledgeable customer base, when they are making a decision about the promised content.

 

The critical information in this case was that there WILL be a transit lag no matter which option you select, the difference is between 1 week and lets say 2-3 weeks, BUT we can presume that this kind of information WOULD have influenced a number of backers in selecting the option with later delivery of the FULL product (so no separate disc shipments). So another number of people now ends up with subpar product (CE with missing content) and there is not even a positive trade of in a shape of day 1 delivery, which COULD have been assumed based from the wording used during the poll.

 

so instead of a delay, where people would get a full content, we get a slightly shorter delay with missing content and a lower end value for collectors edition. On top of that Obsidian is actually paying more for that. So not only they cannot satisfy the day 1 expectations in the first place, not only they failed to deliver on expectations to the high tier backers, they also are paying MORE to do so...

[Lephys]

The update with the poll was misleading, I'll admit. But, at the same time, it didn't seem to very clearly say "Yeah, everyone is totally all going to get everything on day 1! 8D!". It just seemed like it could've meant that. So, it might've been prudent for some people to say "So wait a minute, you're saying that everyone's going to get all their physical goods on March 26th?". Instead, everyone just passively assumed everything, and now are all the more upset because of it.

 

If people had expected things 2 weeks late, they wouldn't be so disappointed right now. And people are still just funneling all their disappointment and frustration at Obsidian like the company's one big robotic entity. Even now, instead of just saying "they should've been clearer in that update," people are still projecting this "Urgh, they suck so badly at doing things right!" attitude, which is really quite crappy towards a group of people whom we know to be legitimately trying in all this.

 

At least give them credit where credit is due, and none where it isn't.

[Darkpriest]

I give them credit for creating what seems to be a good game (waiting to play it ), but they totally messed up the shipping part and there is no credit due here, only criticism so they can learn for the future and PERHAPS remedy situation on the emergency mode now. I expected at least opt in/out for the deliveries of full game or not.

 

 

EDIT: Be prepared for even more backlash from separated shipping once inevitably a number of backers will not get their separate disc as it will go missing in transit.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Darkpriest

[LordCrash]

LordCrash,

 

You've said your piece, and restated again and again ad nauseum. We get it. You're pissed. Let's not beat the dead horse any longer.

 

[...]

 

tl;dr --Dude, step off. Obsidian is out of their depth in these matters and are doing what they can. You'll still get your rewards. Enjoy the game!

 

Care about your own business, dude. You're free to ignore me but don't tell me how I should deal with that situation. I can talk about that issue as much as I want, ok? Or do you want to refund me out of your own pockets? If not, just keep out of my way and care about yourself. This is the very right thread to talk about that stuff. It's also quite arrogant to hear that stuff from someone living next door to Obsidian who most likely will get his stuff on release day. Sure my problems are not your problems and my situation is not your situation. And don't even try to explain that you know how I feel or what I think. I know very well what kickstarter is, thanks. I don't need you to explain that to me. And I'm sure Obsidian doesn't need you as their voice of defense anyway.

 

And inexperience isn't an excuse for everything. That's why they got Paradox on board. And Brandon's excuse was the LEAST he could do, lame as ass, in a small post somewhere on the forum. It's ridiculous to even applaud Obsidian for that completely tragic and broken communication about the topic. No real office excuse, no real official communication (aka update), no top-down approach. Just a tiny "sorry" and that's it. Sorry, but that's not good enough in my books. I don't feel respected that way. You can call me annoying or whatever, I don't care. It's not like I give much about what a random stranger tells me on the internet how I should behave concering my own life...

 

 

I give them credit for creating what seems to be a good game (waiting to play it   ), but they totally messed up the shipping part and there is no credit due here, only criticism so they can learn for the future and PERHAPS remedy situation on the emergency mode now. I expected at least opt in/out for the deliveries of full game or not.

 

 

This. Nobody says anything about the game itself, I'm quite sure I don't. It's all about the shipping itself AND the communication about it. And they just ****ed that part up royally. That's just a fact.

Edited March 15, 2015 by LordCrash

[Lephys]

I don't know why the strokes are so broad. I'd say they screwed up on the information about the shipping. Not on the entirety of the shipping process.

 

I haven't seen a Kickstarter campaign YET that didn't have some fulfillment issues. Are we suggesting that no one who runs Kickstarter campaigns gives a crap about their backers? Or can we give people some credit for such things being frustratingly hard when you're not EA and you can't hand someone 10 million dollars and say "Make it happen."?

 

Good lord... Does anyone really believe that, if Obsidian only cared a little harder, everything would've worked out perfectly?

[Falkon Swiftblade]

I've gone through what Lord Crush has, so I can understand some frustration. In fact, I ordered a book from Europe on the 22 of Feb. It was supposed to be here in 5-10 days. Now it's the week of the 16th of March and it's still not here, nor has the company acknowledged that it's on it's way. Only stating that it's shipped. So I'm feeling a bit frustrated, but I think it only frustrates me not having a way to know where in transition it is. At least you'll have a way to play it and experiment a little bit and maybe even try out a few different builds before thing's show up, and when it does you'll know the game a lot better and you'll probably appreciate the extra goodies even more by then

[Darkpriest]

it's not about care, it is about the business credibility. I do not give two hoots about whether they care or not, I do care about the trust I've put in that they have ability to deliver the product or at least accurately inform us about the predictable outcomes. It wasn't the warehouse where they stored games getting set on fire that causes the issue, it is the withholding a crucial information out of the poll session and thus misleading the customers when they are making the decision. I can only assume it was a f.. up with the inaccurate wording of the poll choices, but then at least they should try to remedy the situation at their own cost. It's not like all the products were shipped already and there is no way to fix this. There was also a lot of request for the opt out selection even during the poll, and aside of one answer - "we will look into it with Paradox" there was no follow up ever since.

[Lephys]

It's just a bit childish not to acknowledge understandable factors in things. You should be able to experience frustration without having to assign blame for it. They should've been clearer with their information. Blame assigned. Other things are frustrating, too. That doesn't equal "Obsidian doesn't give a crap."

 

These are people, and it's human freakin' decency to wait until you actually have a reason to call it like that. It's like when you get stuck in some horrible traffic jam on your way to work, and your boss is all "Hmmm, obviously you don't care about punctuality, u_u"... What a crappy thing to say. Yeah, I guess you should wake up 4 hours early and get to work 3 hours early every day, just to make sure there's no delay that could POSSIBLY make you late.

 

Maybe they should've just printed all the game manuals and guides a year before they finalized the mechanics, you know... so they could guarantee you'd have them on March 26th. *eye roll*

[Lephys]

I can only assume it was a f.. up with the inaccurate wording of the poll choices, but then at least they should try to remedy the situation at their own cost. It's not like all the products were shipped already and there is no way to fix this. There was also a lot of request for the opt out selection even during the poll, and aside of one answer - "we will look into it with Paradox" there was no follow up ever since.

How do you suppose they remedy the situation? With a Delorean and 1.21 Gigawatts of electricity?

 

And there was a followup to the opt-out selection. If they never said anything else about it, obviously they couldn't do it. Or, maybe our only choice is to assume that the answer is "Lolz... oh, we could've EASILY done that with no problems or effort, but we just didn't feel like it, ^_^".

 

Yes, when you don't know one way or the other, always assume. That's constructive all right.

 

Once again, they probably should've said "Sorry guys, but we can't really let selective people opt out of this." And they probably should've done the poll better. And they should've been clearer about international orders definitely having some amount of delay.

 

I'm sure you're not suggesting that if they had simply avoided these information snafus, everyone would be overjoyed to get their stuff 2 weeks late, and still be unable to opt out of the "disc later" program. That's the frustration I'm addressing. And if you're not trying to suggest a lack of caring on Obsidian's part, then you're not the person that bit pertained to.

 

Also, for what it's worth, to the people posting Amazon's "guaranteed" shipping date... did Amazon make their OWN copies of this game, all by themselves? because, if they didn't, then I don't see how on God's green earth they're going to ship you something faster than Obsidian can even ship it to them. Unless Amazon just has blackmail on all the couriers or something.

 

"The crown jewels MUST go straight to the royal treasury!"

"Sure, just gotta make a quick stop in Europe to get all these PoE copies delivered on day 1!"