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Obama to Propose Free Community College


ktchong

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How about some better education and not that Common Core bull?

Or how about protecting students from predatory loans from colleges, because you know they will rev up the price and offer lower quality now that they have less people going in for lesser amount of time.

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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Or how about protecting students from predatory loans from colleges, because you know they will rev up the price and offer lower quality now that they have less people going in for lesser amount of time.

Do you mean "from colleges" or "for colleges"? Because I'm not aware of any institution that actually makes loans to students. Colleges aren't, after all, financial institutions.

Edited by Amentep
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So we are basically turning community colleges into extended High Schools, great.  I think there should be a point where students are expected to shoulder some financial responsibilities, and community colleges are already very affordable.  I'd rather see a push to lower university costs, they've gotten out of control.

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How about some better education and not that Common Core bull?

 

Or how about protecting students from predatory loans from colleges, because you know they will rev up the price and offer lower quality now that they have less people going in for lesser amount of time.

 

Yay for the protecting students part, boo for the dig on Common Core.  I'm not going to say Common Core is revolutionary, but it does move us away from the terrible standardized testing and puts the focus on developing critical thinking skills.  Also, anytime you hear a politician talking about Common Core, right or left wing, ignore them because they have no idea what they are talking about.

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That monster!

 

This is good though, community college is an excellent choice for those without the funds to attend a four-year, particularly in the current climate of predatory student loans.

"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

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I'd rather see a push to lower university costs, they've gotten out of control.

I'd rather we have a society that realizes that having a degree in X doesn't automatically mean you are suddenly able to do any job in America, to be honest.

 

Or, if that's what we want, realize that the traditional liberal arts education isn't the way to get there.

 

The reason costs are high is because of the number of people who want to go to college requiring more resources to handle the students. The reason people want to go to college is because we tell them a degree magically tacks on abother ~$50,000 to their future pay. The reason we say that is because technical fields skew the data and a general push since WWII to delay teenagers from going into the workforce.

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How about some better education and not that Common Core bull?

 

Or how about protecting students from predatory loans from colleges, because you know they will rev up the price and offer lower quality now that they have less people going in for lesser amount of time.

 

Yay for the protecting students part, boo for the dig on Common Core.  I'm not going to say Common Core is revolutionary, but it does move us away from the terrible standardized testing and puts the focus on developing critical thinking skills.  Also, anytime you hear a politician talking about Common Core, right or left wing, ignore them because they have no idea what they are talking about.

 

My mom is a teacher, I've seen Common Core and its "dumbsmart"; it has lot of poorly worded questions and caters to the needs of lowest common denominator. I guess that's why the call it Common Core.

 

@Amentep: Thanks for the correction, I will pay it back some day with interest.

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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How about some better education and not that Common Core bull?

 

Or how about protecting students from predatory loans from colleges, because you know they will rev up the price and offer lower quality now that they have less people going in for lesser amount of time.

 

Yay for the protecting students part, boo for the dig on Common Core.  I'm not going to say Common Core is revolutionary, but it does move us away from the terrible standardized testing and puts the focus on developing critical thinking skills.  Also, anytime you hear a politician talking about Common Core, right or left wing, ignore them because they have no idea what they are talking about.

 

 

You are the only teacher I've ever had any personal contact with in any manner who says boo to a dig on common core. I don't know you personally obviously, but I do know and speak fairly regularly to dozens of friends and acquaintances that are teachers of all different qualities, intellect, and ability and not one of them doesn't loathe common core.

 

Then again, I'm in New York, an early adopter of 'common core'. Perhaps you're just ignorant of what's coming your way.

 

Here's a good presentation on some aspects of it:

Edited by Valsuelm
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I'm not anti or pro common core, it's just another way for educational reformers to stay in business.  I'm against the politicising of it.  It's a smokescreen for the real issues in education, which have little to do with curriculum, teachers, or classroom materials.

 

We all know that No Child Left Behind was terrible, right?  What are your actual complaints about Common Core?  I have plenty, but I'm interested to hear what you see as a problem.  

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I'm not anti or pro common core, it's just another way for educational reformers to stay in business.  I'm against the politicising of it.  It's a smokescreen for the real issues in education, which have little to do with curriculum, teachers, or classroom materials.

 

We all know that No Child Left Behind was terrible, right?  What are your actual complaints about Common Core?  I have plenty, but I'm interested to hear what you see as a problem.  

 

Common core is 'no chlid left behind' on steroids. My complaints on common core are innumerable. There's pretty much nothing good about it at all. Poop has more redeeming qualities.

 

The 'real issues in education'? While I wouldn't say curriculum, teachers, or materials are the only issues in education, they certainly are some of the real issues. What do you think the real issues are?

 

Common core is no more a smokescreen for something that the bubonic plague was for rats. Also, the very nature of it is political, and politics is the only way you're going to change it so being against politicizing it is like being against air being part of the wind.

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The only real issue in education is the community that the school is in.  I teach in a great community, my kids score tremendously on any test I give them.  My wife teaches in a difficult urban setting where kids deal with gangs and drugs.  They test terribly.  Is my wife a worse teacher than me because of that?  Of course not, in fact she has to work harder because of all the discipline issues.  Is her school more run down?  No, it's actually a bit nicer, they get more funding because of their socio-economic population.  We have the same curriculum across the state, we even go to the same trainings.

 

Credit or blame for a failing school system falls heavily on one thing - the parents. 

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The only real issue in education is the community that the school is in.  I teach in a great community, my kids score tremendously on any test I give them.  My wife teaches in a difficult urban setting where kids deal with gangs and drugs.  They test terribly.  Is my wife a worse teacher than me because of that?  Of course not, in fact she has to work harder because of all the discipline issues.  Is her school more run down?  No, it's actually a bit nicer, they get more funding because of their socio-economic population.  We have the same curriculum across the state, we even go to the same trainings.

 

Credit or blame for a failing school system falls heavily on one thing - the parents. 

There is no polite way to ask this, are your wife's students black? Cause that would explain the gangs, drugs and ignorance.

 

As to what my problem with Common Core is: more work for teachers for less education and won't achieve anything since students have no accountability, and if they did have it we could all see how the system is failing and how Common Core isn't the answer. Also, the guy who wrote it believes in white privilege.

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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To make up for the U.S.'s pathetically poor education system that starts off a year late and skips three months every summer, we'll add two more years of catchup at the end. ;)

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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The only real issue in education is the community that the school is in.  I teach in a great community, my kids score tremendously on any test I give them.  My wife teaches in a difficult urban setting where kids deal with gangs and drugs.  They test terribly.  Is my wife a worse teacher than me because of that?  Of course not, in fact she has to work harder because of all the discipline issues.  Is her school more run down?  No, it's actually a bit nicer, they get more funding because of their socio-economic population.  We have the same curriculum across the state, we even go to the same trainings.

 

Credit or blame for a failing school system falls heavily on one thing - the parents.

There is no polite way to ask this, are your wife's students black? Cause that would explain the gangs, drugs and ignorance.

 

Yea.. because only blacks are involved in gangs, do drugs, or are ignorant.

 

Retardo stereotype and Racist much?

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The only real issue in education is the community that the school is in.  I teach in a great community, my kids score tremendously on any test I give them.  My wife teaches in a difficult urban setting where kids deal with gangs and drugs.  They test terribly.  Is my wife a worse teacher than me because of that?  Of course not, in fact she has to work harder because of all the discipline issues.  Is her school more run down?  No, it's actually a bit nicer, they get more funding because of their socio-economic population.  We have the same curriculum across the state, we even go to the same trainings.

 

Credit or blame for a failing school system falls heavily on one thing - the parents.

It's absolutely true that parents are the #1 factor in any kid's upbringing and education. However, they are not the only factor and you have to ignore quite a lot to pretend that they are. Especially when we start specifically talking about public schools.

 

An intelligent and responsible parent has quite a challenge raising and educating a kid given the plethora of total BS their kid is subjected to in media, increasingly in many instances at schools themselves, and from other directions. In fact, while it varies from district to district the widespread effect of things like 'no child left behind', 'common core', 'zero tolerance policies', and 'security' in our schools creates such a negative atmosphere in regards to education in many places that more and more intelligent and responsible parents are taking their kids out of the public school system and sending them to private schools or homeschooling them if they can afford it. Unfortunately not everyone has the means to do this. And not only are many good parents yanking their kids out of schools if they can many of the better teachers out there are fleeing their profession for other careers for many of the same reasons.

 

The modern public school has increasingly become a very toxic place over the last couple of decades, and there are many good parents out there that not only are not at fault for this, but that have been actively battling some of the reasons (like common core) as to why that is.

Edited by Valsuelm
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The only real issue in education is the community that the school is in.  I teach in a great community, my kids score tremendously on any test I give them.  My wife teaches in a difficult urban setting where kids deal with gangs and drugs.  They test terribly.  Is my wife a worse teacher than me because of that?  Of course not, in fact she has to work harder because of all the discipline issues.  Is her school more run down?  No, it's actually a bit nicer, they get more funding because of their socio-economic population.  We have the same curriculum across the state, we even go to the same trainings.

 

Credit or blame for a failing school system falls heavily on one thing - the parents.

There is no polite way to ask this, are your wife's students black? Cause that would explain the gangs, drugs and ignorance.

 

Yea.. because only blacks are involved in gangs, do drugs, or are ignorant.

 

Retardo stereotype and Racist much?

 

Yeah, go teach at an inner city school with a black majority. You'll see what i'm talking about, every teacher that I've met through my mother has similar horror stories about working on black schools which range from the comical to the tragic. Luckily the ones that are close to my family have been comical.

 

I didn't take you for one of those people that get offended when one mentions race.

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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The only real issue in education is the community that the school is in.  I teach in a great community, my kids score tremendously on any test I give them.  My wife teaches in a difficult urban setting where kids deal with gangs and drugs.  They test terribly.  Is my wife a worse teacher than me because of that?  Of course not, in fact she has to work harder because of all the discipline issues.  Is her school more run down?  No, it's actually a bit nicer, they get more funding because of their socio-economic population.  We have the same curriculum across the state, we even go to the same trainings.

 

Credit or blame for a failing school system falls heavily on one thing - the parents. 

you shouldn't let val get away with not answering your previous question.

 

*shrug*

 

in any event, we agree that parents play the most significant role in getting their kids educated.  so, what is the solution? we is aware that aisians and african immigrants, regardless o' socio-economic means, is diligent about the education o' their children. and while amentep justifiably notes that a college degree is not a willy wonka golden ticket, those who got college degrees is statistically more invested and/or able to get their kids similarly educated. single-parent families, regardless o' race, appear to have more problems with getting children educated. etc. we can easily identify trends and factoids, but solutions is harder to construct, yes?

 

we has mentioned that Gromnir, up until relative recent, loathed affirmative action. as a minority who didn't need affirmative action to get admission to university or to get a job, we were much opposed to affirmative action. regardless o' the effort we expended, there were a pervasive belief amongst peers that our presence were mandated by a government program as opposed to something we earned. initial impressions were often difficult to overcome... get sat & lsat scores tattooed on our forehead mighta helped at school. hated affirmative action.

 

the thing is, we has done a 180 on affirmative action, in part 'cause o' the impact on education. a minority with a college degree is far more likely to have children who go to college. ignore the why and the how behind the result for the moment. if you is attempting to get more kids to graduate from college, or to at least makes them better prepared to do well in hurlshot's class, statistically you got a much better chance o' success if you managed to get the kid's parent(s) a college degree.  it is understandable that if you want the next generation o' kids to be prepared to do well in school, you is gonna want to get more college graduates from the current generation, yes?  affirmative action and free community college is rational programs that would seem to gets college degrees into the hands o' more folks who would otherwise not gets degrees. such programs is simple and straightforward and busted, but what is the alternative?

 

asians and african-immigrants is diligent about getting their kids educated. so, how do we get poor white trash and single-parent black families to be similarly invested in their children's education? is not as if poor white trash is unaware that education is a positive-- no PSA by a nascar driver extolling the virtues o' a college degree is gonna make a difference. is not as if the single mom working two jobs is unaware that her five kids got a better chance for a decent future if they is doing well in school. attempts to change culture is problematic, and is actual frequent unconstitutional. 

 

programs such as affirmative action and free community college is busted, but such programs is rational even if they is more desperation than anything else. nevertheless, what is the alternatives? laws has never been particular effective in changing the hearts and minds o' the people... such an observation should be resulting in a kinda "duh" moment. 

 

btw, for some o' the more vocal misguided folks posting in this thread, the republican Govenor from tennessee, bill haslam, were the guy who sponsored http://tennesseepromise.gov/ ... is kinda the inspiration for obama's community college plan. a republican Governor in a red state sponsoring free education?  *snort* some o' you folks is too funny.

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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