11 people killed at a French satirical Newspaper

[Drowsy Emperor]

Gun laws in France aren't relevant to this discussion. These people planned the attack very well and knew what they were doing. Even if everyone in the office was armed it wouldn't have helped them one bit.

 

The problem here is Islam in France. Unlike the domestic left wing terrorism of the 20th century, this is a problem that's:

 

a) not going to go away any time soon

b) can only get worse

 

The reason these things happen is that Europeans have become too soft and too sensitive to violence. A few years back when the magazine reprinted the caricatures of Muhammad (those Danish ones) many cultural institutions were closed due to fear of revenge attacks. Also the offices of this magazine were firebombed at one point. Why is the French government afraid of Muslims in France, in its own house so to speak? 

 

Those cartoonists showed more political courage than their entire government and now they're dead. French response is labeling the killers as criminals and avoiding the entire (and solely important) islamic element, vague statements about freedom and shuffling the thing off to the police to handle. But this isn't a police matter, apart from the procedural aspect. This is political. And, as usual, nothing is being done.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Valsuelm]

 

But he doesn't. He's all for self driving cars and thinks that they will prevent accidents and save lives.

He might be right, seems every driver here is a self centered idiot.

 

 

Speak for yourself. And it's very doubtful he's right, but even if he is in that regards I'd argue the cost for us to even find out is far too high.

[Valsuelm]

Gun laws in France aren't relevant to this discussion. These people planned the attack very well and knew what they were doing. Even if everyone in the office was armed it wouldn't have helped them one bit.

 

The problem here is Islam in France. Unlike the domestic left wing terrorism of the 20th century, this is a problem that's:

 

a) not going to go away any time soon

b) can only get worse

 

"Even if everyone in the office was armed it wouldn't have helped them one bit."

 

Nonsense. When was the last time two armed gunmen walked into a place like a gun club, military barracks, police office, or anywhere else where everyone there was armed, shot everyone there (~10 people) dead using only fairly standard handheld weaponry, and then got away without serious injury (if not entirely uninjured) while shooting random people on the getaway?

 

Never happened? Right. And it never will.

 

But hey, in your world an entire religion is the problem, rather than a handful of evil people.

 

You saying 'Islam in France' is the problem is as legitimate as saying 'Hamburger Eaters' are the problem the next time a non-vegan blows a bunch of people away somewhere on earth.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Valsuelm

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

Gun laws in France aren't relevant to this discussion. These people planned the attack very well and knew what they were doing. Even if everyone in the office was armed it wouldn't have helped them one bit.

 

The problem here is Islam in France. Unlike the domestic left wing terrorism of the 20th century, this is a problem that's:

 

a) not going to go away any time soon

b) can only get worse

 

"Even if everyone in the office was armed it wouldn't have helped them one bit."

 

Nonsense. When was the last time two armed gunmen walked into a place like a gun club, military barracks, police office, or anywhere else where everyone there was armed, shot everyone there (~10 people) dead using only fairly standard handheld weaponry, and then got away uninjured while shooting random people on the getaway?

 

Never happened? Right. And it never will.

 

But hey, in your world an entire religion is the problem, rather than a handful of evil nutjobs.

 

You saying 'Islam in France' is the problem is as legitimate as saying 'Hamburger Eaters' are the problem the next time a non-vegan blows a bunch of people away somewhere on earth.

 

 

In Sierra Leone a band armed with machetes massacred a UN camp with armed soldiers. Anything is possible if you're prepared and the other side isn't.

 

What's the point you're trying to make? These aren't barracks, this is a satirical magazine. They aren't likely to keep a rifle in their brush jar even if it was allowed. There was even an armed police guard for the editor and he was killed along with the others. No one can live in fear and permanent preparedness for an attack that may never come.. 

 

And yes, islam is obviously the problem. I don't see terrorists of other major world religions making headlines at all, let alone regularly.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Tale]

This is all a serious tragedy and I'll understand if people are upset beyond the norm.

 

But we won't be tolerating use of the thread to push hate. The rules are still in force.

 

Edit: Nor will this thread be the go to place for a debate on what is or is not hate speech.

[Malcador]

Hm, don't most soldiers on a home base walk around unarmed?

[Woldan]

Hm, don't most soldiers on a home base walk around unarmed?

I can only speak for how things work in my country, when I was doing my military service all of the 800 recruits had access to their personal rifle with ammo and everything.

 

Also in Switzerland people can keep their rifle after completing their service and store it at home, with ammo.

[ShadySands]

Hm, don't most soldiers on a home base walk around unarmed?

 

Yes, and weapons are kept in the armory

 

Only MPs and maybe a small number of others would have both a firearm and ammo on or near their person

Edited January 7, 2015 by ShadySands

[Valsuelm]

Hm, don't most soldiers on a home base walk around unarmed?

 

In the U.S. at least, since the early 90s yes. Which has lead to more than one tragedy.

[Malcador]

Yes, and weapons are kept in the armory

Ah, thought that correct. Hm, I guess it is more for concerns over theft rather than safety, primarily.

[Hurlshort]

 

 

But he doesn't. He's all for self driving cars and thinks that they will prevent accidents and save lives.

He might be right, seems every driver here is a self centered idiot.

 

 

Speak for yourself. And it's very doubtful he's right, but even if he is in that regards I'd argue the cost for us to even find out is far too high.

 

 

Wait, you trust the people that are driving around you?  How terribly naive.  I drive like everyone else is an idiot, because it is true.

[Raithe]

Or we just keep it simple..

 

[Tsuga C]

Today's shooting was not something in any way new, but merely the continuation of a millennium year-old war initiated by Islam against the West. It's run hot and cold over the centuries, but Muslim envy/hate against a Christian West that's largely outperformed it since the Renaissance isn't going away, period. Separation is the only long term, viable answer. The only question is whether or not the West still has the wisdom and the guts to make the right call.

[Agiel]

In the context of both the attack on the school in Pakistan and this attack on Charlie Hebdo, I recall a tweet from Chris Cavas:

 

"Those who destroy the future have no future."

[Valsuelm]

 

 

 

But he doesn't. He's all for self driving cars and thinks that they will prevent accidents and save lives.

He might be right, seems every driver here is a self centered idiot.

 

 

Speak for yourself. And it's very doubtful he's right, but even if he is in that regards I'd argue the cost for us to even find out is far too high.

 

 

Wait, you trust the people that are driving around you?  How terribly naive.  I drive like everyone else is an idiot, because it is true.

 

 

Like with everything else, trust is earned. Believe it or not some drivers are indeed trustworthy on the highway. Having once had a job that saw me log 10s of thousands of miles a year behind the wheel, I picked up a few things your average driver doesn't have in regards to figuring out who to trust . Regardless of that though, yes, one should always drive defensively. Driving defensively however does not mean I need to have contempt for everyone else on the road, nor wish to deny them or infringe upon their basic right of travel at will, or privacy during that travel.

[Woldan]

If the ''trust the other'' system didn't work, traffic wouldn't work, as in not at all. Public transports wouldn't work, airliners wouldn't work.

 

Considering how many people drive each day traffic accidents are actually rare, so the ''idiots'' are those who do not trust and act undpredictable in traffic which is the main cause of traffic accidents. Oh the irony.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Woldan

[Tsuga C]

In the context of both the attack on the school in Pakistan and this attack on Charlie Hebdo, I recall a tweet from Chris Cavas:

 

"Those who destroy the future have no future."

If you're trying and dying to return the world to the 8th Century and revive the Caliphate, the future as most Westerners conceive it is anathema.

[Darkpriest]

Well... to some this might be a shock, but to be honest it was just a matter of time and things like these will re-appear unfortunately, different place, different country, but not so distant future. To me one thing stands out as a bit odd, but this will be verified in next couple of weeks. It is a strange coincidence, that this happens shortly after Russia got their Mistrals delivery canceled by France. It does not look like "typical" terrorist work, due to little collateral damage and use of fire arms instead of explosives, use of "hit&run" unlike regular hit & create lot of noise. We will have a lot of media coverage in coming days focused on the topic of ISIS and terrorist, taking away focus from other parts of the world and giving a chance to "shine" to others as compassionate and helpful. This might also lead to more in UE crisis, demonstrations etc, We've already seen what retard 'muslim" mobs can do while rioting in France or other EU countries.

 

It will be interesting couple of days/weeks, but of course it might be a regular terrorist attack. However, these people had good military training, and they had surprisingly good "intelligence" - building layout, precise knowledge of their targets, etc.

[Woldan]

Really, If I was in charge of a nation and people would demand immediate action to increase security aside from the conventional methods which have been tried and failed; I could not think of any other way to start than to deport a certain class of people who is prone to do such things and stop immigration from countries that have problematic cultures, religions and views that'd clash with my country's. 

 

Of course this would be like directly nuking human rights and the collateral damage would be massive, but I think a point has been crossed where any decision or potential solution would result in massive collateral damage, which includes doing essentially nothing.  

 

What would be a good start? 

[Malcador]

Has it ? 12 people died. Given what they have endured in the past, not really seeing this as the breaking point that calls for it or any other country to be ethnically cleansed.

[Woldan]

Well, lets assume for a moment that this is just the beginning.

[Valsuelm]

Well, lets assume for a moment that this is just the beginning.

 

Of what?

[Hurlshort]

Calling for the deportation of millions over the actions of 3 terrible people is reprehensible.

[Hassat Hunter]

This is disgusting.

But also all this talk about "if only there were more guns" is even more disgusting. Why does every attack in another country, be it Australia or France or whatever, Americans feel the need to appolize their guns again? Is it the same reason you need to carry guns, lack of self-image, and you need to speak good for yourself.

It makes me want to ask...
"How did guns helped you 9/11?"
"So, despite being trained and heavily armed your US Military failed in Iraq and Afghanistan. So giving every layman a gun will suddenly make them perform better?"
"How did guns help the people watching The Dark Knight Rises?"
"How did your guns help you in Boston? Remember they also shot an armed cop before they got shot/arrested themselves in the persuit."
"How did guns save the woman shot by her 2-year old?"
"How do guns help making your country the highest on gun-related crimes and deaths per 1000 inhabitants in the world"

But most of all I want to say
Please Shut the F Up about your insecurity, and instead focus on what happened. This isn't your gunpooching thread.

In the U.S. at least, since the early 90s yes. Which has lead to more than one tragedy.

There have also been several(!) instances of militia going loco and murdering off their fellow soldiers. If only they were on a place where people had weapons, and knew how to use them... oh wait...

Now that hopefully this insanely inappropriate discussion is at an end, yes, I do sencirely hope that all EU countries will kick out Syria-returnees. But we all know they lack the gut to do it, and we all pay for it. If people want to be all radical and super-Islamatic, why don't just kick them out to Syria to see how FUN such a country is to live in. What, it's a freaking hellholish warzone? Well, that's what you were looking for to make out of your homenation, you big stupid ****.
I'm pretty tolerative, but even I after all those many attacks this recent time I'm starting to become hateful, intollerant and suspicious of the Islamatic people. Something I would never have expected to happen. But there are a LOT of people out there giving them a bad name, it's quite obviously not a 'few people' if everyone over the world travels to Syria and they have an own personal army in Iraq. And as long as the 'imams' just say they don't relate to each terrorist attack over and over again, it doesn't really help if they don't actually help preventing people under them to radicalise. With the increasing protest in Germany (which I expect to boom), and probably similar ones coming in the other EU-nations I only hope our utterly incompetant leaders do something about it before people in objection vote for neo-nazi extreme rightwing parties just since the rest doesn't want to address anything, since that would really make Europe a worse place to be in. It's actually not that hard to see a new "Fourth Reich", but this time not the Jews but Islamitics being the target. And that's very very worrisome.

 

EDIT: Why is tw-at censored? Eeeeeh...?

Edited January 8, 2015 by Hassat Hunter

[Rostere]

It is clear that the people who committed this crime were Islamist terrorists. However, where did they get their equipment and training from? And did they plan this in collusion with someone else? On whose orders?

 

To me those are the most important questions at the moment...