Journalism and sexism in the games industry

[BruceVC]

He's okay with strippers though, that has to be somewhat demeaning. Don't think porn stars have it that easy either, several have left the industry and commented as such.

 

But really though, doesn't have much to do with gaming. Here's some hand wringing from Polygon - https://archive.today/G2Emq

 

Who knew a woman could produce a misogynistic horror like Moebius

 

I'm okay with strippers and hookers, I don't judge people. But that doesn't mean I'm not aware of their quality of life 

[Malcador]

You don't judge people ? Well that's funny.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Apparently another porn star, Natalie Minx has decided to support gamergate. Should be writing a blog today. This comes from BasedMilf, whose Twitter I won't link for obvious reasons.

 

Cue the internalized muh-soggy-knees.

Edited January 5, 2015 by KaineParker

[BruceVC]

You don't judge people ? Well that's funny.

 

Well I mean people who work in the sex industry...and you right I do judge certain people 

[Longknife]

 

Am I REALLY the only person who considers sex work to be very very VERY much off-topic from GamerGate, and the only one whose absolutely shocked at how many people allow Bruce to continue to derail the thread so we can continue having a discussion we've had four times already?

 

No it  is related because it aligns to several SJ concepts

 

 

 

This topic first came about when GTA V was banned. Please look at your calendar to see when that was.

 

It has been over a month. You have had ample time to make your point. If you are incapable of making your point within a month's time, it's probably not a very strong or direly important point to begin with.

 

All you are doing now is crowding out any ability to have ANY other discussion relevant to GamerGate, which I consider quite rude.  I also proposed two questions to you several pages ago, both of which were blatantly ignored because they do not neatly align with your narrative you wish to solicit.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Longknife

[Meshugger]

Apparantly a Twitter warrior/Anti-GG activist/former admin of a Final Fantasy-site called "FFShrine" (shrbutts at Twitter) is a transexual pedophile that also does some bestiality with his/her own dog. And she/he owes the IRS 40 000$ in taxes (say that loud three times). For some reason, she forgot all about the IRC-logs left on the FFShrine server, free for anyone to take a look at them.

 

While not directly GG-related, the level of hypocrisy is at such levels that i simply have no words for it.

 

http://theralphretort.com/hacked-sick-sarah-nyberg-logs-proven-real-suck-srhbutts-lol/

 

//Edit: Do not read the logs unless you have a strong stomach.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Meshugger

[Oerwinde]

 

 

 

Is there an established thread where we discuss how whiny crybabies are ruining the world? like how people are angry at Target for portraying Annie, a white character, with a white model, or is this an appropriate thread?

What?

Target was targeted by another petition, some 10,000 signatures long demanding they pull the advertising and apologize for having a white girl modelling an Annie inspired clothing line.

 

To put it in perspective, I believe there were some previous ads or marketing with a black Annie, and the hubbub is that they changed it to a white Annie again, negating the message. Still..petitions for ad-pulling and apologies seem a bit over reactionary.

 

 

The ads were part of a bigger campaign around the lines of "anyone can be Annie" or some such, with a bunch of different girls of different races. The white girl was just the only one pictured in the Red Dress.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Am I REALLY the only person who considers sex work to be very very VERY much off-topic from GamerGate, and the only one whose absolutely shocked at how many people allow Bruce to continue to derail the thread so we can continue having a discussion we've had four times already?

 

No it  is related because it aligns to several SJ concepts

 

 

 

This topic first came about when GTA V was banned. Please look at your calendar to see when that was.

 

It has been over a month. You have had ample time to make your point. If you are incapable of making your point within a month's time, it's probably not a very strong or direly important point to begin with.

 

All you are doing now is crowding out any ability to have ANY other discussion relevant to GamerGate, which I consider quite rude.  I also proposed two questions to you several pages ago, both of which were blatantly ignored because they do not neatly align with your narrative you wish to solicit.

 

 

Sure I understand your frustration, but when do we ever stay on topic ?

 

Can I ask you a favour, can you post those 2 questions again. I would like to answer them?

 

Sorry I don't  remember what you asked me 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Apparantly a Twitter warrior/Anti-GG activist/former admin of a Final Fantasy-site called "FFShrine" (shrbutts at Twitter) is a transexual pedophile that also does some bestiality with his/her own dog. And she/he owes the IRS 40 000$ in taxes (say that loud three times). For some reason, she forgot all about the IRC-logs left on the FFShrine server, free for anyone to take a look at them.

 

While not directly GG-related, the level of hypocrisy is at such levels that i simply have no words for it.

 

http://theralphretort.com/hacked-sick-sarah-nyberg-logs-proven-real-suck-srhbutts-lol/

...that's absolutely terrible. I honestly feel sick reading that.

[Orogun01]

Orog I really enjoy debating with you but  I'm not sure if you are trolling or not now when you compare a guys that cleans sewage to the same as a sex worker? I am going to assume you are being serious and respond 

 

What happens when someone becomes a sex worker is that they lose that part of them that makes sex intimate and personal. This may not seem like a big deal but it is, think about it. Most  sex workers I have met  don't have serious boyfriends or a real relationship and you can understand why most people wouldn't seriously date a sex worker and most of the time the girls feel the same way

 

So the girls do it for the money and I'm not judging at all but you must realize that part of them becomes dead on an emotional level, I'm probably not explaining it properly.I apologize for that

If what you mean is that they stop enjoying sex because of their work, then I would ask you why does that matter. A lot of people stop enjoying their passions once it becomes their job. If you are talking about the stigma associated with sex work and porn then that's on moralists and their smear campaigns. 

Like I said before; there are a lot of different people in the world, nothing that you've said has convinced me that sex work is inherently bad just that some people are bad at it. Just like some people quit being doctors because they can't deal with the pressure of saving a life, or when people quit being cops because they are afraid they might lose their lives. Some people are better equipped to deal with it than others.

 

As for the people saying that this isn't related: We are doing this Volo's niece sake, have a heart people.

[Blarghagh]

Why do we care? It's just some dumb internet trolls that tweeted about #GamerGate incessently. Nothing that neccesitated this level of scrutiny, just blocked her and I was fine. Getting mighty irritated by the witch hunt mentality on both sides.

 

EDIT: This was about that RalphRetort article, not the hookers thing.

Edited January 5, 2015 by TrueNeutral

[Keyrock]

Apparantly a Twitter warrior/Anti-GG activist/former admin of a Final Fantasy-site called "FFShrine" (shrbutts at Twitter) is a transexual pedophile that also does some bestiality with his/her own dog. And she/he owes the IRS 40 000$ in taxes (say that loud three times). For some reason, she forgot all about the IRC-logs left on the FFShrine server, free for anyone to take a look at them.

 

While not directly GG-related, the level of hypocrisy is at such levels that i simply have no words for it.

 

http://theralphretort.com/hacked-sick-sarah-nyberg-logs-proven-real-suck-srhbutts-lol/

 

//Edit: Do not read the logs unless you have a strong stomach.

Oh my...

Reading that less than an hour after eating lunch may not have been a good idea.

[Amentep]

Why do we care? It's just some dumb internet trolls that tweeted about #GamerGate incessently. Nothing that neccesitated this level of scrutiny, just blocked her and I was fine. Getting mighty irritated by the witch hunt mentality on both sides.

Indeed, there does seem to be a lot more focus on persons and personalities than on facts and issues that facts raise.

 

If someone's done something that is legally actionable the solution isn't posting it on the internet, but getting the information into the hands of the proper authorities. If its not legally actionable than its just character assasination (denounce the person to denounce their point rather than addressing the point itself).

 

IMO.

[Orogun01]

 

Why do we care? It's just some dumb internet trolls that tweeted about #GamerGate incessently. Nothing that neccesitated this level of scrutiny, just blocked her and I was fine. Getting mighty irritated by the witch hunt mentality on both sides.

Indeed, there does seem to be a lot more focus on persons and personalities than on facts and issues that facts raise.

 

If someone's done something that is legally actionable the solution isn't posting it on the internet, but getting the information into the hands of the proper authorities. If its not legally actionable than its just character assasination (denounce the person to denounce their point rather than addressing the point itself).

 

IMO.

 

Well, I guess since the SJWs are a cult of personalities that drive the narrative you would first have to character assassinate them in order to disrupt their movement. Besides, as long as GG keeps them busy they probably won't be complaining about boobs in games, or if they do GG will likely counter them. It's ****ed up but it seems that balance has been restored to the force.

[Blarghagh]

That's a very "ends justify the means" mentality. Might be a rationalisation that SJWs would use. Witch hunting and ad hominem is wrong, especially since what we're supposed to be focusing on is bringing meaningful change to the media and instead some people seem to care more about some douche that tweets a lot of imgurs and who would be silenced by the simple act of ignoring.

[Keyrock]

I agree with Amentep and TrueNeutral.  No need to sink to the SJWs level.  Report this to the authorities (I'm pretty sure bestiality is illegal most places, and pedophilia is most definitely illegal almost everywhere) and that's it. 

[Zoraptor]

If someone's done something that is legally actionable the solution isn't posting it on the internet, but getting the information into the hands of the proper authorities. If its not legally actionable than its just character assasination (denounce the person to denounce their point rather than addressing the point itself).

 

 

I agree that the trash diving aspects are in general deplorable, but there is a fine line between what is legitimate and not. Is digging up Ian Cheong's old RPGCodex "I love Hitler" posts legit or not? Rather depends on whether he really has turned that page and was just influenced by a hive of scum and villainy or if he's just switched cliques depending on circumstance and being run off from the Codex on a rail. And while I don't really see any reasonable need to know whether Brianna Wu is a transsexual or not it is certainly appropriate to know whether she was lying about fleeing her home because all her videos were done from the same location.

 

You'd have to go a fair way to find anyone fighting a 'PR war' that doesn't target prominent figures on the other side, people being people.

 

And, given that there has been plenty of genuinely malicious and illegitimate actions such as swatting or doxxing going on I cannot really get too upset about people trawling through publicly available chat logs/ forum posts etc and bringing them up. End of the day if you make public statements they're fair game because they are public, much like putting up a physical note on a noticeboard for anyone to read.

[Volourn]

"o I understood your post perfectly, but my point doesn't require a deep understanding of the sex industry. Its kind of obvious, I would think this would be clear"

 

If the sex industry is so horrible then why have you taken part in it? THE. LOGIC.

 

 

"how do you think anyone would feel about having sex for money.....yes you may enjoy it but what would the emotional and psychological impact be?"

 

trust me. I'd rather my job be have sex for money than my current one. Sadly, I'm too ugly so no woman would hire me. R00fles!

 

 

"I'd prefer we prosecuted the unscrupulous individuals whom use sex workers, pimp out the girls and propogate prostitution, rather than the young ladies themselves. They are often victims of circumstance, and of course their plight should not be swept under the carpet or censored, the same as any other victim of crime should not be."

 

Customers shouldn't be. It should be legal for both the workers and the customers. What should be illegal is the actual abuse or sex slave 'workers'. That is what's screwed up. Slavery and assault is already illegal in most countries 9espciially the West) so perhaps if the laws would be be enforced plus not   dehumanizing  sex workers like it's done.

 

Like in my country. Prostitution is technically legal.   But,  previously sex workers would be charged if they 'adverttise'. Now, it's even further legal but  customers are still technically breaking the alw. That's dumb. It's either legal or it's not.

 

OPeople anti prostitition or anti female for two reasons. a) Some women are fine with being prostitutes. They prefer that lifetsyle (not coutning those forced into it/abused. b)  While rarely publicly discussed, females are also customers. Giggilos exist for a reason.

 

 

"Orog I really enjoy debating with you but  I'm not sure if you are trolling or not now when you compare a guys that cleans sewage to the same as a sex worker? I am going to assume you are being serious and respond 

 

What happens when someone becomes a sex worker is that they lose that part of them that makes sex intimate and personal."
|

Have you done a disgusting job? It's very demeaning.

 

"This may not seem like a big deal but it is, think about it. Most  sex workers I have met  don't have serious boyfriends or a real relationship and you can understand why most people wouldn't seriously date a sex worker and most of the time the girls feel the same way"

 

How many have you met? I've met exactly one and she had a boyfriend.  Stop making stuff up.

[Orogun01]

That's a very "ends justify the means" mentality. Might be a rationalisation that SJWs would use. Witch hunting and ad hominem is wrong, especially since what we're supposed to be focusing on is bringing meaningful change to the media and instead some people seem to care more about some douche that tweets a lot of imgurs and who would be silenced by the simple act of ignoring.

After 2 years of mammary related game scandals I'm just glad that they have something else to talk about. Seems that they won't be happy until they're miserable, tolerance is one thing but passivity when confronted with someone that wants to harm you. Now that's how the Dodo got extinct.

 

Even if you're trying to skirt around the issue, the issue with journalism is that they are corrupt ideologues and the ideology is feminism. No benefit to ignoring that. 

[Blarghagh]

Trying to skirt around the issue? Journalists may have been infiltrated by an ideology or somesuch (I wouldn't say the entire of feminism is an issue being such a huge, varied and amorphous blob of people just like #GamerGate, at most ridiculous post-modern third wave cultural marxist view that seems prevalent among the Tumblr crowd), but I very much fail to see how some dumb twitter troll who was never in it for the ideology but to rile up #GamerGaters is connected to that in any way, shape or form. This woman (or man, or whatever, I elected not to read the damn expose) is a distraction and I guess she did an absolutely wonderful job of that judging by how important you think it is that she gets discussed in depth. This is the last I'll say on it because I have more interesting and important things to think about.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'd like to stop talking about that individual as well, because I honestly felt sick reading the bit I did of that. If you know where I can report her to the authorities, PM it to me.

 

http://therightvidya.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/i-just-want-to-write-about-wrestling-dammit/

 

Another GamerGate dude talks about being harassed.

[HoonDing]

Good riddance.

[Orogun01]

Trying to skirt around the issue? Journalists may have been infiltrated by an ideology or somesuch (I wouldn't say the entire of feminism is an issue being such a huge, varied and amorphous blob of people just like #GamerGate, at most ridiculous post-modern third wave cultural marxist view that seems prevalent among the Tumblr crowd), but I very much fail to see how some dumb twitter troll who was never in it for the ideology but to rile up #GamerGaters is connected to that in any way, shape or form. This woman (or man, or whatever, I elected not to read the damn expose) is a distraction and I guess she did an absolutely wonderful job of that judging by how important you think it is that she gets discussed in depth. This is the last I'll say on it because I have more interesting and important things to think about.

Look I'm not arguing against the ideology, just against letting it dictate the rules and the content that is created. There shouldn't be any kind of politicking involved in game development.

[Volourn]

"(I wouldn't say the entire of feminism is an issue being such a huge, varied and amorphous blob of people just like #GamerGate,"

 

Feminism, by the very existence of the word, is sexist. It's not varied. It's pure sexism. Feminism good masculinism  bad. That's sexist.Therefore evil and nazish.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Volourn

[Meshugger]

Back to topic. Lots of things seems to be going on behind the scenes, as far i can tell. This is a summary of different journalists that have either quit or have been fitred. The info itself is snatched from the 'Codex:

 

GameSpot fired Carolyn Petit, Tom Mc Shea, Justin Calvert, Ryan Mac Donald, and Maxwell McGee a while ago: http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/2c6vw4/gamespot_hit_with_layoffs_carolyn_petit_tom_mc/

Dale North quit Destructoid and was replaced as EiC (definitely related to GG): https://archive.today/dLxNg
Jim Sterling quit The Escapist (definitely related to GG): http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/138617-Goodbye-to-Jim-Sterling
Matt Clark had a freakout on Twitter and was afaik fired from IGN (also related to GG): http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAct...amergate_ign_writer_matt_clark_has_shut_down/
Cory Banks was afaik let go from PCGamer (possibly over GJP).
Casey Johnston left Ars Technica: https://twitter.com/caseyjohnston/status/535827580688269313
Tom Bramwell left Eurogamer and was replaced as EiC: https://archive.today/eI3tD
Patrick Klepek left GiantBomb for Kotaku: https://archive.today/Xz8bF
Max Scoville quit Destructoid (after Rev3Games failed: http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/2014/11/rev3games-closes-down/ ), now unfortunately works for IGN: https://twitter.com/MaxScoville/status/552183101804515328https://archive.today/axoro#selection-209.15-215.15

Edited January 5, 2015 by Meshugger