Journalism and sexism in the games industry

[Malcador]

So what's the latest outrage related to GamerGate today ?

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

Me: "So there were accusations about games journalists wanting to censor and ban Hatred. I've scoured Kotaku and Gamasutra, the two sites I remembered from the 'Gamers Are Dead' scandal to the best of my ability and didn't find such - actually, quite the opposite. Could you guys who obviously pay more attention to this sort of stuff point me to any articles that were asking for censorship?"

You: "SJWs are all evil postmodernists whose raison d'être is to force everybody through direct or indirect coercion to accept that art has no intrinsic value beyond one's personal experiences."

Me: "That's all fine and dandy, but it had nothing to do with what I asked :facepalm:"

 

I don't see any particularly passive-aggressive about my response.

 

 

So, no argument then.

 

Mine was a simple interjection to the current discussion. You don't happen to be a moderator at a forum of your own, do you?

 

 

I think I'm hardly at fault for thinking you intended to respond to a question I asked when you're directly replying with a quote to the post where I was asking said question.

 

Also, hard to argue with the assertion that "SJWs are all rabid postmodernists" when I've never met any SJW who even mentioned postmodernism, let alone identified as a follower of it. There's literally zero connection between the two groups of people, as far as I'm aware.

 

 

I made an interjection that you responded with facepalm and no argument. That's all that there is.

 

Also, my claim comes from post-modernism is about:

 

- Critical Theory on Culture, Art and Economics

- Knowledge through reason is unobtainable. Therefore even science is discarded

- There is no truth, except through personal experience

- Moral relativism

- Only power can change your position or your surrounds, and it cannot be judged on any objective moral standard, due to reasons mentioned above

 

Sounds familiar doesn't it? SJWs stem from Post-Modern thought, whether they like it or not, just as any Libertanian stem from The Enlightment. In other words, what you feel is more right than what can be achieved through reason, science or rational thought.

[Meshugger]

So what's the latest outrage related to GamerGate today ?

 

Ok, ok, i get the hint. 

 

It seems like the closing of 8Chan's Patreon has caused quite the stir since it was the result of the #Stop8Chan-hashtag. Patreon themselves quickly changed their TOS so that they can close anything based on their own whim, as of writing this. Which means that they can now close "problematic" patreons, which GG now using against by the very people that asked for 8chan's patreon to be shut down in the first place.

 

What happened: https://twitter.com/deku_king/status/547113161770692608/photo/1

What's going on now: https://twitter.com/TinyPixelBlock/status/547115518940176384/photo/1

[Zoraptor]

Pigeonholing all SJWs is about as sensible as pigeonholing all GGers, and really is drawing a long bow. Some will do it for ideological reasons, some for bandwagon jumping, some for deeply held beliefs unrelated to any formal ideology. There are some general observations (GG tends more towards libertarianism, antiGG more towards authoritarianism) that are true, but they're pretty broad distinctions and applying them broadly can be... annoying, I find it annoying when people label GG as being 'right wing' for example.

 

So what's the latest outrage related to GamerGate today ?

 

Hot wheels has totally trolled Brianna Wu by claiming that he needs patreon to hire an assistant to look after his cat!

 

It's either a travesty or the funniest thing ever.

[Malcador]

Ah good stuff all around.

[Meshugger]

More about Patreon and GG.

 

Cernovich giving some pressure to Patreon to clarify about 8Chan:

 

The discussion quickly shiftes focus on somebody else:

 

RogueStar (most known for pushing the IGF-fraud)

 

 

And that's about it. I will now iron my christmas sweater and turn on the sauna. Got a big family dinner tomorrow and you have to look representable....by christmas standards. 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

I made an interjection that you responded with facepalm and no argument. That's all that there is.

 

 

I asked a question, you responded directly to that question with something totally unrelated (and also completely clueless), I facepalm'd, then you tried to frame it as me avoiding having to present an argument - but when your argument makes about as much sense as creationist babbling, it's hard to respond with anything more than "actually, no, there is pretty much nothing at all that supports the things you're saying, please, at least try to keep things in the realm of possibilities". That's all there is.

 

But okay, I'll humor you.

 

My claim comes from post-modernism is about:

 

- Critical Theory on Culture, Art and Economics

- Knowledge through reason is unobtainable. Therefore even science is discarded

 

 

From wikipedia (which can be derided as a source for being shallow, but you've presented that your knowledge of critical theory is at a place where even wikipedia offers significant new information): "Critical theory is a school of thought that stresses the reflective assessment and critique of society and culture by applying knowledge from the social sciences and the humanities."

 

Well, so much for science being discarded, I guess.

 

 

 

- There is no truth, except through personal experience

 

 

Personal, lived experience is important for most feminists, but that has less to do with any postmodernist ideology and more with the fact that patronizing **** completely clueless people (usually white men, duh) are so often trying to tell them what their movement is about (*cough*) or how women really work, based on nebulous speculation.

 

 

 

- Moral relativism

 

 

You are aware of the fact that SJWs are pretty much the most morally colorblind people in the world, aren't you? "Oppression is always bad" and "I don't care about your advances in science, your shirt is degrading to women" is, if anything, morally absolutist, not the other way around.

 

 

 

- Only power can change your position or your surrounds, and it cannot be judged on any objective moral standard

 

 

That sounds more like frothing objectivist tripe - and considering the fact that Ayn Rand is one of the most universally loathed people in social justice circles, I'd say it's probably a safe bet that no SJW has ever uttered those words.

 

 

 

If you could cite primary sources on these things (aka actual feminists vocally espousing the views you've described), that would be great.

Edited December 23, 2014 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Meshugger]

'Social Science' - Hahahahaha

 

I'll respond more thouroughly later.

[C2B]

Someone is angry about Alpha Protocol

 

https://twitter.com/tadthuggish

[aluminiumtrioxid]

'Social Science' - Hahahahaha

 

I'll respond more thouroughly later.

 

I'd argue that social sciences are overall less rife with absolutely rubbish methodology than the vaunted evopsych crap people like to throw around as "disproving feminism forever", so there's that.

 

 

Also, Cernovich is pretty much certifiable insane, talking about "virile seminal fluid making women addicted and curing their depression" (would've been an actual quote, but the forum censored it, so I had to edit), so I'm not sure he should be listened to in any context.

Edited December 23, 2014 by aluminiumtrioxid

[TrashMan]

 

 

If we look back at the origins of the conversation:

 

Fighter: I didn't read what the blacklisted guy was ragging on about, but they were wrong to not report on him! This is censorship! Bias! What a dangerous attitude!

Me: ...Actually, I think the "I didn't read what they were unwilling to publish, but I'm absolutely, 100% sure that it was worthy of being published" attitude is the more dangerous one. Not all opinions are created equal, and flat-out bad ideas deserve not being reported on.

 

I don't think I was making an especially binary or reductionist statement.

 

 

 

Therein lies the problem.

Who gets to decide what oppinions "deserve" to be heard? You?

Frak no, I wouldn't trust you to pick a shirt for me, let alone books or movies.

 

The whle point of "worth" determining wether something should be censored or not is bullcrap.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Therein lies the problem.

Who gets to decide what oppinions "deserve" to be heard? You?

 

 

When the question is asked in the context of a journalistic publication, the answer's obviously "the editor of said publication". Which makes the cries of "censorship!" all the more baffling when said editor decides the answer's "no".

[Malcador]

'Social Science' - Hahahahaha

 

I'll respond more thouroughly later.

Hey, that stuff serves a good purpose - keeps those people contained.

[Longknife]

 

 

 

F*** that news, horsesh*t, IS DAT SUM CHOPPER DAVE???

 

 

[Malcador]

Someone is angry about Alpha Protocol

 

https://twitter.com/tadthuggish

Meh, some writer. Let us know when someone with a useful profession chimes in with outrage on the behalf of other people to show his Social Concern cred.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Someone is angry about Alpha Protocol

 

https://twitter.com/tadthuggish

Meh, some writer. Let us know when someone with a useful profession chimes in with outrage on the behalf of other people to show his Social Concern cred.

 

 

Yeah, I agree.

 

I mean, Alpha Protocol made it perfectly clear that you're not meant to sympathize with those people. "Oh my god, the people who are perfectly willing to torture captured POWs and betray their own agents are the type who'd make fun of the mentally challenged? Color me surprised!"

[Longknife]

 

Someone is angry about Alpha Protocol

 

https://twitter.com/tadthuggish

Meh, some writer. Let us know when someone with a useful profession chimes in with outrage on the behalf of other people to show his Social Concern cred.

 

 

 

GTFO writers are awesome. FFS I think of Avellone moreso as a writer than a developer just cause he's damned good at the job.

 

No need to hate on the entire profession for one idiot.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Since Messhugger was talking about science, I thought I'd post the writer of FF's thoughts about it.

 

 

Take note of who rt'd these statements.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Since Messhugger was talking about science, I thought I'd post the writer of FF's thoughts about it.

 

 

Take note of who rt'd these statements.

 

 

I do feel compelled to note that many of the methods of indigenous science work, even though their theoretical underpinnings are absolute horse****. (Traditional Chinese medicine jumps to mind, which has the most ridiculous explanations as to why it works, but that doesn't make it work any less. [Edit: well, the about 20% that does actually work, that is.])

Edited December 23, 2014 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Malcador]

Science is gendered ?

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Science is gendered ?

 

How many women do you know working in STEM?

[C2B]

 

LoL

Edited December 23, 2014 by C2B

[aluminiumtrioxid]

"http://puu.sh/dGo9c/0a7d82ae4c.png"http://puu.sh/dGo9c/0a7d82ae4c.png[/img]

 

LoL

 

Who's this clown, anyways?

[Amentep]

 

Science is gendered ?

 

How many women do you know working in STEM?

 

Is that STEM's fault?

[Malcador]

 

Science is gendered ?

 

How many women do you know working in STEM?

 

Quite a few considering the amount of people I know, although, funnily most are not right now due to either being pregnant or on maternity leave. That whole spiel on Twitter reeked of some caricature of arts majors, but I guess they buy into that crap (Western science is western centric, who'd expect that).

Even so, calling it gendered makes me think they are trying to say the field is tailored for one gender, not that one gender has most of the jobs for whatever reason (oppression, no doubt).