Journalism and sexism in the games industry

[Meshugger]

Apparently some people were posting how they wanted Sarkeesian in the game to kill, perhaps that was why Valve decided to not bother with it. What they needed to do was dress up the mass murdering a bit more.

 

So people think that controlling the fantasies of others is a good thing. Volourn was right all along.

[Volourn]

Come on. the game was overwhelmingly greenlighted by Valve's own customer base. Youa lsos eem confused. Either the customer is right or wrong.

 

You claim the 'customer' is wrong but then point to these 'complaints' as a good reason for the banning and censorship. So, who was comp,laining? Not customer?

 

The. logic. does. not. make. sense.

[BruceVC]

Come on. the game was overwhelmingly greenlighted by Valve's own customer base. Youa lsos eem confused. Either the customer is right or wrong.

 

You claim the 'customer' is wrong but then point to these 'complaints' as a good reason for the banning and censorship. So, who was comp,laining? Not customer?

 

The. logic. does. not. make. sense.

 

Actually the truth is  " the customer is king, but not always right "

[Keyrock]

Bruce with the predictably fascist "You people aren't fit to make your own decisions.  Let Big Brother make them for you." argument.

[Volourn]

"Actually the truth is  " the customer is king, but not always right "

\

Your response doesn't make sense in context.

 

I have always been one of those who doesn't beleive the customer is always right. However,t he customer always should have the right to buy what they want and not be told they can't buy something based on someone else's moral code.\

\

Why do you believe you should be able to tell my niece what she can or cannot play? Why do you want to mansplain to her what she can or cannot play? Why do you think so little of women?

Edited December 16, 2014 by Volourn

[Fighter]

Funnily enough all this will probably make the game more successful than it ever had a chance of being without all the crybabies.

[BruceVC]

"We should be supporting Steam in this decision, its the right thing to do. Why should Steam want to be associated with a game like Hatred? They can find another distribution mechanism for there game. They want to make a game with such controversial themes, this is the price you pay

 

Well done Steam "

 

Are you a SJW nazi parody? I can't believe a human being can believe this nonsense. Oops, I can. Please mansplain to me why YOU (and Valve) should be allowed to decide what games my neice should be allowed or not allowed to play? Why do you hate her so much? Why do you belittle her so much? Why do you want to control her? Why should YOU or ANYONE decide what games she can play, what movies she can watch, or what books she can read? That's evil.

 

 

 

 

WHY DO YOU HATE MY NIECE, BRUCE!?!

 

You keep asking me about your niece and you still haven't  explained why my suggestion to remove hookers from the game is somehow responsible for her not playing it? Unless I'm missing something...like does your niece work in the sex industry and now there is some kind of reason hookers effects her emotionally ?

[Meshugger]

Hahahahaha, dear lord. What did you just say?

[Chilloutman]

Bruce is eather very proffesional troll or rainbow nazi

[Keyrock]

The entire purpose of Greenlight was for the customer base to make decisions on their own without Valve's involvement, guidance, or judgement.  Sure, customers make poor decisions sometimes, we're human.  I mean, I bought Dragon Age 2, full price even, that was a terrible decision.  The thing is, Valve needs to let the customers make their own decisions, good or bad, otherwise, what is the point in Greenlight at all?  If you create a system whose purpose is to let the customers make their own choices without your involvement, then you get involved and override their choice, that system is completely worthless and serves no purpose.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Keyrock

[Longknife]

All those examples you guys mentioned, like Lolita, are  considered great works of literature. They are multi-levelled and nuanced and discuss real societal themes and issues. They encourage debate and it would be a travesty to see them banned

 

Hatred is none of this, its just game with a deeply flawed design where the developers want to be controversial and appeal to people like you guys who will buy there product

" in the interest of freedom of expression". Its a con..don't fall for it.

 

Also we aren't even talking about censorship here, Valve has every right to not distribute any game for whatever reason. They not saying you shouldn't play Hatred or it should be censored by others. This is there business decision and its something we should accept as its not like Valve doesn't distribute many games, this is really the first time I have heard about it ?

 

 

 

There is a difference between wanting to support something out of principle and wanting to support something financially or with your purchase.

 

I have no interest in ever buying Hatred. I only have an interest in seeing it published and sold out of principle. Just like how I have an interest in seeing the Westboro Baptist Church continue to have their freedom to spread the hatespeech that they do, but do not have an interest in supporting them.

 

As to the rest, you blatantly ignored a point of mine and strawman'ed my post. I said Hatred is by no means a great work of art, but I said some of the most famous works of art were once controversial. You filter art or censor it period? All you're doing is limiting it's potential and stagnating it.

[Volourn]

 

 

"like does your niece work in the sex industry and now there is some kind of reason hookers effects her emotionally ?"

 

Are you kidding me? Did you just claim my 17-18 your neice who lives with her dad is a hooker? That's insanity.  You just besmriched her honour by falsely accusing her of something she isn't. You should be thankful I'm not a SJW who lives on the internet based on 'feels' or that would have started some  outrage for your insulting my  wonderful niece.. Instead I just laugh at your insane stupidity.

 

 

"You keep asking me about your niece and you still haven't  explained why my suggestion to remove hookers from the game is somehow responsible for her not playing it?"

 

My neice enjoys the game. She enjoys going around causing mayhem including killing prostitutes. Yiou are trying to take that away from her. The fact you feel the need to mansplain to her and tell her what she can do is sexist and evil.

 

You know the main difference between you and her? It's not that she's female and you are male. It's not that she's not quite an adult and you supposedly are. It's that she has the common sense to realize it's just a silly ridiculous game not to be taken seriously. That just ebcause someone kills fake people in a video game does not mean they are gonna do it in real life.

 

\Now stop mansplaining and trying to control and enslave women. That's evil.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Volourn

[BruceVC]

The entire purpose of Greenlight was for the customer base to make decisions on their own without Valve's involvement, guidance, or judgement.  Sure, customers make poor decisions sometimes, we're human.  I mean, I bought Dragon Age 2, full price even, that was a terrible decision.  The thing is, Valve needs to let the customers make their own decisions, good or bad, otherwise, what is the point in Greenlight at all?  If you create a system whose purpose is to let the customers make their own choices without your involvement, then you get involved and override their choice, that system is completely worthless and serves no purpose.

 

Fair enough, it probably may appear to undermine the purpose of Greenlight. But there should be terms and conditions that allows Valve that  under certain circumstances to remove games. And more importantly its not like they do this often

[Volourn]

"But there should be terms and conditions that allows Valve that  under certain circumstances to remove games. "

 

L0L

 

"And more importantly its not like they do this often"

 

You have to start somewhere.  I wonder what game is next.

[Fighter]

Well I'm glad you recognise Valve has this right. Because you guys espouse freedom of expression and freedom of speech but you don't seem to accept Valves right to not distribute a game? Unfortunately this is an example where the customer isn't always right, Valve received complaints and they made a perfectly understandable decision to ban this game. Lets not read too much into it, its not like Valves core business will be impacted so neither will our Steam gaming experience

 

And what was the complaint? "This game that I will never buy or have to play myself should be denied to other people that may want to buy it." Why exactly?

 

No one denies that Valve can do these things. But giving A SMALL MINORITY the importance and power to decide what choices other individuals are allowed to have is an atrocious decision. And it is not even about Hatred specifically, it's the principle. It is the slippery slope that companies that are nearly monopolies should not enter as it is the road to censorship.

 

And before anyone even starts with this: It is irrelevant if it would be censorship by definition when the practical outcome may be the same.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Fighter

[Amentep]

All those examples you guys mentioned, like Lolita, are  considered great works of literature. They are multi-levelled and nuanced and discuss real societal themes and issues. They encourage debate and it would be a travesty to see them banned

 

Hatred is none of this

Perhaps I've missed something, but I'm under the impression that Hatred isn't finished, hasn't been released (or else why would it be up for voting on Greenlight?) so how would you know that Hatred is none of those things you list?

 

BTW, Lolita was turned down by 6 major US publishers for content concerns before Nobokov turned to France where the publisher ended up being one that mostly did pornographic novels. France banned it a year after its publication after the UK customs started seizing shipments into the country of the book. It took 4 years for US and 5 for UK publication. The UK publication ended the political career of the publisher.

 

So pardon me if I fail to see how "merit" somehow makes something censor/ban proof...

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

The entire purpose of Greenlight was for the customer base to make decisions on their own without Valve's involvement, guidance, or judgement.  Sure, customers make poor decisions sometimes, we're human.  I mean, I bought Dragon Age 2, full price even, that was a terrible decision.  The thing is, Valve needs to let the customers make their own decisions, good or bad, otherwise, what is the point in Greenlight at all?  If you create a system whose purpose is to let the customers make their own choices without your involvement, then you get involved and override their choice, that system is completely worthless and serves no purpose.

Yeah, overriding customers desires in a system designed specifically to accommodate said desires is strange. I suppose one could argue that Hatred would violate Steam'spolicy of not carrying any Ao rated game, but as others have pointed out Steam carries games with similar content. At any rate, it's censorship according to that right-wing fringe group the ACLU.

 

I can't wait to see the reaction when some butthurt Christians try to get a SJW indie darling taken down because it offends their sensibilities. Thanks for giving them the precedent to take down "objectionable" games guys.

[BruceVC]

 

All those examples you guys mentioned, like Lolita, are  considered great works of literature. They are multi-levelled and nuanced and discuss real societal themes and issues. They encourage debate and it would be a travesty to see them banned

 

Hatred is none of this

Perhaps I've missed something, but I'm under the impression that Hatred isn't finished, hasn't been released (or else why would it be up for voting on Greenlight?) so how would you know that Hatred is none of those things you list?

 

BTW, Lolita was turned down by 6 major US publishers for content concerns before Nobokov turned to France where the publisher ended up being one that mostly did pornographic novels. France banned it a year after its publication after the UK customs started seizing shipments into the country of the book. It took 4 years for US and 5 for UK publication. The UK publication ended the political career of the publisher.

 

So pardon me if I fail to see how "merit" somehow makes something censor/ban proof...

 

You far too clever to make such a fatuous argument that Hatred may  reach the intellectual and emotional heights of Lolita, its just a violent FPS....that's it

 

It would be silly to even entertain this notion, so let not waste each others by discussing this impossible outcome

[Fighter]

Perhaps I've missed something, but I'm under the impression that Hatred isn't finished, hasn't been released (or else why would it be up for voting on Greenlight?) so how would you know that Hatred is none of those things you list?

 

BTW, Lolita was turned down by 6 major US publishers for content concerns before Nobokov turned to France where the publisher ended up being one that mostly did pornographic novels. France banned it a year after its publication after the UK customs started seizing shipments into the country of the book. It took 4 years for US and 5 for UK publication. The UK publication ended the political career of the publisher.

 

So pardon me if I fail to see how "merit" somehow makes something censor/ban proof...

 

Exactly. There will never be great works of art when you restrict what people are allowed to try.

[BruceVC]

"like does your niece work in the sex industry and now there is some kind of reason hookers effects her emotionally ?"

 

Are you kidding me? Did you just claim my 17-18 your neice who lives with her dad is a hooker? That's insanity.  You just besmriched her honour by falsely accusing her of something she isn't. You should be thankful I'm not a SJW who lives on the internet based on 'feels' or that would have started some  outrage for your insulting my  wonderful niece.. Instead I just laugh at your insane stupidity.

 

 

"You keep asking me about your niece and you still haven't  explained why my suggestion to remove hookers from the game is somehow responsible for her not playing it?"

 

My neice enjoys the game. She enjoys going around causing mayhem including killing prostitutes. Yiou are trying to take that away from her. The fact you feel the need to mansplain to her and tell her what she can do is sexist and evil.

 

 

You seem almost offended by my suggestion your niece may work in the sex industry. I'm not sure why, it was some of  you guys who said being a hooker is a normal job like a hotdog salesman. It was some of you guys who said hookers don't need special consideration when it comes to there  job and lifestyle...so  I would think you should see my questions as asking if your niece has a normal job...that's the sex industry according to you?

 

Now me I see it differently, I think the sex industry for many girls is degrading and exploitive. I think many of the ladies are victims of terrible circumstances and they do it for survival. And I wouldn't want to add to that misery in anyway

[Longknife]

 

 

All those examples you guys mentioned, like Lolita, are  considered great works of literature. They are multi-levelled and nuanced and discuss real societal themes and issues. They encourage debate and it would be a travesty to see them banned

 

Hatred is none of this

Perhaps I've missed something, but I'm under the impression that Hatred isn't finished, hasn't been released (or else why would it be up for voting on Greenlight?) so how would you know that Hatred is none of those things you list?

 

BTW, Lolita was turned down by 6 major US publishers for content concerns before Nobokov turned to France where the publisher ended up being one that mostly did pornographic novels. France banned it a year after its publication after the UK customs started seizing shipments into the country of the book. It took 4 years for US and 5 for UK publication. The UK publication ended the political career of the publisher.

 

So pardon me if I fail to see how "merit" somehow makes something censor/ban proof...

 

You far too clever to make such a fatuous argument that Hatred may  reach the intellectual and emotional heights of Lolita, its just a violent FPS....that's it

 

It would be silly to even entertain this notion, so let not waste each others by discussing this impossible outcome

 

 

This is the second time you've basically strawman'ed the exact same point.

 

 

"like does your niece work in the sex industry and now there is some kind of reason hookers effects her emotionally ?"

 

Are you kidding me? Did you just claim my 17-18 your neice who lives with her dad is a hooker? That's insanity.  You just besmriched her honour by falsely accusing her of something she isn't. You should be thankful I'm not a SJW who lives on the internet based on 'feels' or that would have started some  outrage for your insulting my  wonderful niece.. Instead I just laugh at your insane stupidity.

 

 

"You keep asking me about your niece and you still haven't  explained why my suggestion to remove hookers from the game is somehow responsible for her not playing it?"

 

My neice enjoys the game. She enjoys going around causing mayhem including killing prostitutes. Yiou are trying to take that away from her. The fact you feel the need to mansplain to her and tell her what she can do is sexist and evil.

 

 

You seem almost offended by my suggestion your niece may work in the sex industry. I'm not sure why, it was some of  you guys who said being a hooker is a normal job like a hotdog salesman. It was some of you guys who said hookers don't need special consideration when it comes to there  job and lifestyle...so  I would think you should see my questions as asking if your niece has a normal job...that's the sex industry according to you?

 

Now me I see it differently, I think the sex industry for many girls is degrading and exploitive. I think many of the ladies are victims of terrible circumstances and they do it for survival. And I wouldn't want to add to that misery in anyway

 

 

 

And this is the same old story:  the last two pages are filled with very valid and accurate points of debate and statements, and instead of responding to any of them, you give priority to a meaningless and petty little "argument" with Volourn about which one of you is a Nazi.

 

This is why I do not take you seriously Bruce. Because personally, I tend to filter out the people who have nothing worthwhile to say. If I debate for why Climate Change should be taken seriously, I do not respond to the guy in the back saying "ya you just think that cuz ur a libtard **** who is too stupid to recognize a blatant lie scientists concocted to seem more important," I respond to the guy who's trying to present actual info as to why I might be wrong.

 

You? You cling to those guys like a bee to honey.

 

 

 

 

So how about we forget Volourn's niece and don't derail a good discussion to some retarded discussion of whether or not she's a hooker or a nazi or a saint, and instead we get back to that strawman you've commited twice, where you fail to recognize that people are arguing for Hatred out of principle.

[Malcador]

I guess Bruce likes underage hookers.

[Volourn]

"You seem almost offended by my suggestion your niece may work in the sex industry. I'm not sure why, it was some of  you guys who said being a hooker is a normal job like a hotdog salesman. It was some of you guys who said hookers don't need special consideration when it comes to there  job and lifestyle...so  I would think you should see my questions as asking if your niece has a normal job...that's the sex industry according to you?"

 

Idiocy. I don't mansplain to my niece. Why do you feel it's acceptable for you to do so?

 

 

"Now me I see it differently, I think the sex industry for many girls is degrading and exploitive. I think many of the ladies are victims of terrible circumstances and they do it for survival. And I wouldn't want to add to that misery in anyway"

 

So your opinion gives you the right to manspalin to my niece and tell her she's a stupid piece of crap because she enjoys playing a video game and that you have the moral right to decide what games she can or cannot play while accusing her of being something she is not? That's evil and nazi like behaviour.

 

\Why do you hate women so much?

[Malcador]

Oh great, now Volo is using 'mansplain'.

[Ganrich]

TB on Hatred being pulled from steam.