American Riots, Michael Brown....is it justified ?

[Walsingham]

Nope. Other people have made my arguments for me already.

 

EDIT: Don't blanket assume that all rioters are scum thieves because some of them are. Some cops are scum racists, it doesn't amke them all scum racists.

 

SUBEDIT: note I still regard rioting as wrong. It's both unacceptable in a democracy, and worse it is bloody stupid. It doesn't promote justice or dialogue. It doesn't break down barriers, it builds them. The only people who like riots are revolutionaries. And revolutions lead to all sort of fun stuff, including millions of dead kids _which would be somewhat ****ing ironic in this case_.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Walsingham

[Namutree]

 

I'm hardly speaking of Utopia. Even with the Drug War ended America will still have problems; just not this one. Keep in mind also that the black community doesn't dislike the police when they put a black mugger behind bars; it's when they put black people (especially young ones) behind bars for no good reason. Possessing a drug is not a good reason to ruin some one's life.

 

I also don't expect everything to be healed over night. It may take a while, but the results will be positive.

You kind of are, with your depiction of America under your idea with people seeing cops as friends who keep the peace and so on. Or at the very least, fairly optimistic. Some people are just trash, after all.

 

So it'll just fix problems for drug users, I guess it may save money over all - rehabilitation for a select few is cheaper than prosecuting and jailing them. At least in terms of direct expense.

 

Most communities already see cops in a friendly light. Blacks are the primary targets of the Drug War. That's the primary reason why the black community is so disdainful of the police. Ending the Drug War would likely make them see the cops the same way everyone else does. Utopias usually refer to a perfect society. America would need to do far more than end the drug war to come close to a Utopia.

[Malcador]

Fair enough, wouldn't hurt to try. What do you about dealers though ? I guess they are to be prosecuted the same as now ?

[kgambit]

Namutree, your proposal falls far short of what would be needed.   If you want to end the drug War, simply turn the drug trade into a business. 

 

• Legalize it
• Tax it
• Regulate it
• License it
• Treat it just like alcohol (for the most part). 
• Use the tax revenue to subsidize construction of rehab centers and to offset health care costs of drug addicts. 
• Allow domestic production - Weed'r'Us works for me;  TootforTots not so much. 
• Allow companies to distribute like MML does for Weed in Colorado. 
• Restrict age usage and require health care insurance as a cost reducer. 
• Enforce quality standards. 
• Establish limits for personal production (weed).  (Stills are illegal, the alcohol example works well)
• Establish DUI standards for drugs.
• Establish heavy import duties (make this a US industry!) and start exporting
• Rewrite the CJC to eliminate banking restrictions on cash transfers etc.

That's how you end the drug war. 

 

Indemnify distributors who adhere to distribution and production requirements from prosecution.  If someone over doses on heroin thru no fault of the distributor or producer he should not be subject to prosecution.   

[Malcador]

Now I am thinking of seeing office emails of "Who's up for coke and drinks after work tonight?"

[BruceVC]

Namutree, your proposal falls far short of what would be needed.   If you want to end the drug War, simply turn the drug trade into a business. 

 

• Legalize it
• Tax it
• Regulate it
• License it
• Treat it just like alcohol (for the most part). 
• Use the tax revenue to subsidize construction of rehab centers and to offset health care costs of drug addicts. 
• Allow domestic production - Weed'r'Us works for me;  TootforTots not so much. 
• Allow companies to distribute like MML does for Weed in Colorado. 
• Restrict age usage and require health care insurance as a cost reducer. 
• Enforce quality standards. 
• Establish limits for personal production (weed).  (Stills are illegal, the alcohol example works well)
• Establish DUI standards for drugs.
• Establish heavy import duties (make this a US industry!) and start exporting
• Rewrite the CJC to eliminate banking restrictions on cash transfers etc.

That's how you end the drug war. 

 

Indemnify distributors who adhere to distribution and production requirements from prosecution.  If someone over doses on heroin thru no fault of the distributor or producer he should not be subject to prosecution.   

 

This is an excellent and logical post, if most societies were going to legalize drugs this would have to be way the process and implementation  would work

[Namutree]

Namutree, your proposal falls far short of what would be needed.   If you want to end the drug War, simply turn the drug trade into a business. 

 

• Legalize it
• Tax it
• Regulate it
• License it
• Treat it just like alcohol (for the most part). 
• Use the tax revenue to subsidize construction of rehab centers and to offset health care costs of drug addicts. 
• Allow domestic production - Weed'r'Us works for me;  TootforTots not so much. 
• Allow companies to distribute like MML does for Weed in Colorado. 
• Restrict age usage and require health care insurance as a cost reducer. 
• Enforce quality standards. 
• Establish limits for personal production (weed).  (Stills are illegal, the alcohol example works well)
• Establish DUI standards for drugs.
• Establish heavy import duties (make this a US industry!) and start exporting
• Rewrite the CJC to eliminate banking restrictions on cash transfers etc.

That's how you end the drug war. 

 

Indemnify distributors who adhere to distribution and production requirements from prosecution.  If someone over doses on heroin thru no fault of the distributor or producer he should not be subject to prosecution.   

I agree with the ideas of this post (Except the heavy import duties, and license). I was trying to come up with a realistic solution rather than the ideal solution.

 

Just to be clear: Ending Drug Prohibition is not the same as ending the Drug War. Though I do want to end Drug Prohibition. I'll be dang pleased just to see the Drug War end.

[Valsuelm]

Namutree, your proposal falls far short of what would be needed.   If you want to end the drug War, simply turn the drug trade into a business. 

 

• Legalize it
• Tax it
• Regulate it
• License it
• Treat it just like alcohol (for the most part). 
• Use the tax revenue to subsidize construction of rehab centers and to offset health care costs of drug addicts. 
• Allow domestic production - Weed'r'Us works for me;  TootforTots not so much. 
• Allow companies to distribute like MML does for Weed in Colorado. 
• Restrict age usage and require health care insurance as a cost reducer. 
• Enforce quality standards. 
• Establish limits for personal production (weed).  (Stills are illegal, the alcohol example works well)
• Establish DUI standards for drugs.
• Establish heavy import duties (make this a US industry!) and start exporting
• Rewrite the CJC to eliminate banking restrictions on cash transfers etc.

That's how you end the drug war. 

 

Indemnify distributors who adhere to distribution and production requirements from prosecution.  If someone over doses on heroin thru no fault of the distributor or producer he should not be subject to prosecution.   

 

Fixed it for you.

 

Take all your fascist and socialist ideals that will fail to do any good to some other nation please.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Valsuelm

[Guard Dog]

There is a story starting to come out now that Missouri Governor was ready to have the National Guard out to protect homes and businesses in the event of riots. The President (Barack Obama for those who have forgotten) called him and asked him not to deploy them. Why I wonder? If the story is true.

[Volourn]

"how blacks are excluded from society"

 

This doesn't make sense and is illogical.  It's also an insult to all the successful blacks whoa re definitely a part of society.  Yeah, blacks (but not asians, arabs, etc.) are excluded from society... in a country that elected a black person as leader of the nation. COME ON.

[BruceVC]

There is a story starting to come out now that Missouri Governor was ready to have the National Guard out to protect homes and businesses in the event of riots. The President (Barack Obama for those who have forgotten) called him and asked him not to deploy them. Why I wonder? If the story is true.

 

I have heard from several commentators that the reason the National Guard wasn't brought out was  that they didn't want to be seen to be heavy handed and then provoke the protestors...not that it made much of  a difference because the looting and damage to property still happened

[Volourn]

Yeha, but at least I don't think anyone was seriously hurt though some poor (black i  think) reporter had a rock hit her head.

[kgambit]

Fixed it for you.

 

 

No.  It was just fine the way it was.     

[licketysplit]

More race baiting by the media and a bunch of undignified spoiled brats that wanted to light cars on fire. I do feel Wilson used excessive force but it's hard to have sympathy for a kid that just robbed a store and then attacked an officer. Darwin award material right there.

[Guard Dog]

Pictures are worth a thousand words:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2850383/A-town-ravaged-anger-pictures-extent-damage-buildings-Ferguson.html

[Meshugger]

It's ok since it is by people who consider themselves marginalized, therefore their actions are completely justified. The fault lies on society that made them feel rightous to vandalize. Repent or else someone will write a shameful blog about you.

[Gorgon]

 

 

 Barack Obama himself, who did not attend a single minute of Grand Jury testimony and is not in a position to know the first thing about it appeals for calm on one side of his mouth while saying how fuc--d up the country is with the other. 

More importantly is that he doesn't tell them what they can do about it. He doesn't say; the relationship between the black community and law enforcement could be mended if the drug war were ended. He just says, "Well, use this anger for something positive." - Not a direct quote, but the jist of what he said. 

 

He needs to be more bold and actually name things that should change.

 

Obama is a politician. As such he is far more interested in exploiting problems than fixing them. Politically they need black community to be in a constant state of rage and mistrust. That way they can run ads that say it's all the Republicans fault during the election cycles. Demagoguery does not work when folks are reasonably happy. 

 

That's the worst part of this I think. They whip these folks into a rage and then set them loose for very cynical and selfish reasons. If all racism, real or perceived, were to end tomorrow do you know who would be out of a job? Al Sharpton & Co. Makes you think every time you see him show up at a place where he can cry "racism".

 

He's not up for reelection. Ex presidents typically stay ex, and isn't Obama supposed to be toxic for the democrats who want to appeal to swing voters. On the other hand I do think Al Sharpton needs to be that guy who shows up every time politically. If he didn't he could hardly call himself an activist, he would be accused of working for 'the man', being 'part of the system' like Jessie Jackson. 

 

No, I don't really think Obama has any stake in this other than appearing to be trying to mend fences. 

[Drowsy Emperor]

You should be thankful that the price of this pent up social aggression is no more than a few buildings. If you ever see the reality of an uprising or a civil war along class and/or racial lines you'll realize what real destruction looks like.

[Guard Dog]

You should be thankful that the price of this pent up social aggression is no more than a few buildings. If you ever see the reality of an uprising or a civil war along class and/or racial lines you'll realize what real destruction looks like.

Oh I've said there will be another civil war in the US. All the ingredients are there. I don't know how the lines will break out or how far in the future it is... but it's coming. Not for a long time I think, but it's coming.

[Gorgon]

There is a story starting to come out now that Missouri Governor was ready to have the National Guard out to protect homes and businesses in the event of riots. The President (Barack Obama for those who have forgotten) called him and asked him not to deploy them. Why I wonder? If the story is true.

Yes I wonder, could that have something to do with not wanting bodies on the streets. 

[Gorgon]

Ohh come on really ?. Are you part of the 'race war' crowd now. Say it ain't so. 

[Guard Dog]

Ohh come on really ?. Are you part of the 'race war' crowd now. Say it ain't so. 

Nah, just poking at DE

[Guard Dog]

This whole thing is just asinine. Gorgon tells me that Namutree has done an injustice to me and mine. He didn't really but I trust Gorgon so I refuse to believe Malcador when he tells me Namutree is innocent. I get so mad I go and burn down Drowsy Emperor's house. Even though he's my neighbor and I know he has nothing to do with it. Gorgon then goes out and tells all the other's my anger is understandable.  

 

Who's really at fault here? If it's Gorgon what does that say about me because I'm stupid enough to a) be manipulated in that way & b) take it out on someone I know is innocent.

 

The truth is I'm the only one at fault in this scenario.

[Meshugger]

Pfeh, like the media would care.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

You should be thankful that the price of this pent up social aggression is no more than a few buildings. If you ever see the reality of an uprising or a civil war along class and/or racial lines you'll realize what real destruction looks like.

Oh I've said there will be another civil war in the US. All the ingredients are there. I don't know how the lines will break out or how far in the future it is... but it's coming. Not for a long time I think, but it's coming.

 

 

If Stiglitz is right, and he's been doing political economy for a long time, the top 1% (irrespective of party allegiance since they effectively control both) have been squeezing the system for all its worth for the past 30+ years. The middle class has lost the most, but everyone has lost something barring those at the very top who've increased their income many times over. 

 

As a rule, things take a drastic turn for the worse at the point where it doesn't make any difference whether a person will die due to starvation or to being shot. On one hand, the US is far off from that point due to cheap food and the availability of basic sustenance with any paying job, on the other, the 21st century individual has higher basic demands than a 19th century worker. "Clothes on your back, bread on the table and a roof over your head" don't really cut it anymore.

 

One thing is for sure, as long as neo-liberal dogma is controlling the distribution of wealth policy and allowing for uncontested accumulation of capital at the top - the part of the cake available to the rest gets smaller and smaller. 

Edited November 26, 2014 by Drowsy Emperor