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Now that you guys have extensively played the beta, are there any big changes we can expect for any of the upcoming updates? I still feel the game is a bit fast paced, and I usually pick damaging abilities instead of buffs most of the time when fighting. I do this even on hard. Also, spell effects might need to be toned down a bit. My two cents.

 

I am also wondering about how skills ratio look when you pick talents. Right now, athletics is on most of the talents.

 

Some of the spell effects will be reduced in intensity and duration.  Kaz and the effects team will be going over the list to make sure they are suitably intense without being overpowering/confusing.

 

We've discussed extending all Recovery Times by a bit but haven't tried it yet (we will likely be trying it in the next few days).  That would make the self-buffs immediately more appealing not just because of the overall pace but because most of the self-buffs are now marked "Zero Recovery", so you can act immediately after they go off.  Most creatures also don't have Recovery values set on their armor (it is built into all "human" armor).  Bumping that up will help prevent them from gang stomping individual party members before allies can intercede.  Certain creature movement speeds (wolves, some spiders, beetles, spirits in general) will also come down.

 

A lot of players are also still overwhelmed by the available druid and priest spells.  I don't want to reduce the number of available spells, but I do think having the player select from a subset of them at any given time would help prevent the action bar from looking like an icon orgy.

 

We're also looking a lot at what abilities players get early on to make sure that the game is involved and fun with 1/2/3 party members but doesn't become a nightmare with 4/5/6 when the levels are doubled.  It's difficult to balance especially if you have a bunch of casters vs. more melee-oriented characters.

 

Our economy is also being tuned a bunch.  Certain bonuses (in terms of monetary worth) are being devalued (specifically, Fine/Exceptional/Superb) and we'll be using a different value progression for bonus total on an item.  Vendor sale prices will be reduced and gems will be set to full value instead of the fractional value you get for other items.

 

Most bonuses from Attributes have been slightly increased.  Derived defensive bonuses have gone from 1.5 and 1 (for Deflection on Int) to 2.  Might gives +3% per point (from 2%) to damage and healing.  Dexterity gives +3% Action Speed (well, -3%, but you know what I mean) per point, from 2%.  Perception gives 2 Accuracy per point.  Intellect modifies AoE size by 6% per point (vs. 3%).

 

Max default damage for most weapons/attacks will likely be lowered (in part because of increased Might, but mostly to normalize out the range), min dam through DT will likely be set to 20% (like F:NV) to make it woefully inefficient but less hopeless (it should also mostly eliminate sub-1 damage Grazes).

 

So yeah, lots of playing, bugfixing, and tuning.

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Certain creature movement speeds (wolves, some spiders, beetles, spirits in general) will also come down.

*Tears of joy*

 

This sounds very promising. However, the Medreth fight alone shows that any old thug moves far too fast. Such unearthly speed should be reserved for like those vampires in BG2, like someone remarked yesterday, and then nothing more. Overall, the combat speed of all baddies needs to come down. If you pause, and then un-pause, only to pause again as fast as you can, you'll see that the bad guys have moved several metres in RT in microseconds. Not cool.

Edited by IndiraLightfoot
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We've discussed extending all Recovery Times by a bit but haven't tried it yet (we will likely be trying it in the next few days).

I don't think action recovery time is worth looking into yet (for classes), the problem is the percentile amount of endurance that per-hit damage represents. Slowing Recovery speed will make creatures drop a party member in 2 hits a tiny bit slower - aka not a big difference.

 

It would be better IMO to tune the action speed AFTER the per-hit damage and Endurance values are fixed.

 

A lot of players are also still overwhelmed by the available druid and priest spells.  I don't want to reduce the number of available spells, but I do think having the player select from a subset of them at any given time would help prevent the action bar from looking like an icon orgy.

I don't really have a problem with how many spells are there, it's just that I don't know what all the spells do yet and the icons don't really help. BG games had color coded icons which made stuff real easy to follow. PE doesn't.

Edited by Sensuki
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Just saw it on Steam.

I came online *just* to mention this.  I finished paying a bit of Wasteland 2 and I always look for the special deals in the STEAM pop up window.  I guess I never thought about seeing PoE there, but it popped right up as the special.  I've been avoiding the beta or even reading most of the threads these days exactly because of this.  I want *my* PoE to be one I'm counting down from the pre-release advertisements to when the game actually ships and I can install it.  I have to admit that I was excited to see it pop up on STEAM.  I don't have much to contribute that other folks aren't already contributing, and better than I could anyway, but I can certainly be a happy customer.  I can hardly wait!

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Have the same question as alb1221.

 

And another one. I want to know - how kickstarter-pledges correlated with steam version of PoE "Champion Edition"?

 

To be honest - its better and cheaper for me to sell my $25 pledge and get Champ Edition in steam.

 

PS Or all backers (even 25$) will get "Champion Edition"? /for example, all backers of Dreamfall Chapters got steam Special Edition/

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A lot of players are also still overwhelmed by the available druid and priest spells.  I don't want to reduce the number of available spells, but I do think having the player select from a subset of them at any given time would help prevent the action bar from looking like an icon orgy.

 

So yeah, lots of playing, bugfixing, and tuning.

 

 

The amount of spells per se is not a big issue IMO.

 

What is confusing is that it is really hard to tell spells from each other. If you could come up with a way to color-code the spell icons by category (e.g. defensive/offensive/buffs) it would make a big difference I think.

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Will pledgers be given Steam keys?

Nearer the time of release they'll be asking us to confirm (via the backer portal) whether we want it on steam / gog / whoever the choices are.

So yes, you can have a steam key if you want (or a gog code if you prefer, like me :) )

 

And another one. I want to know - how kickstarter-pledges correlated with steam version of PoE "Champion Edition"?

 

To be honest - its better and cheaper for me to sell my $25 pledge and get Champ Edition in steam.

cheaper than what?

I'm expecting basic $25 pledge (or $35 late backer) to be the 'Hero' edition as that's what we pledged for - basic game digital download (plus those 2 backer/pre-order bonus items)

If you look at what's included in 'Champion' edition, it's what the higher tiers got (More like the 'Digital collector's edition' or near-as)

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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Now that you guys have extensively played the beta, are there any big changes we can expect for any of the upcoming updates? I still feel the game is a bit fast paced, and I usually pick damaging abilities instead of buffs most of the time when fighting. I do this even on hard. Also, spell effects might need to be toned down a bit. My two cents.

 

I am also wondering about how skills ratio look when you pick talents. Right now, athletics is on most of the talents.

 

Some of the spell effects will be reduced in intensity and duration.  Kaz and the effects team will be going over the list to make sure they are suitably intense without being overpowering/confusing.

 

We've discussed extending all Recovery Times by a bit but haven't tried it yet (we will likely be trying it in the next few days).  That would make the self-buffs immediately more appealing not just because of the overall pace but because most of the self-buffs are now marked "Zero Recovery", so you can act immediately after they go off.  Most creatures also don't have Recovery values set on their armor (it is built into all "human" armor).  Bumping that up will help prevent them from gang stomping individual party members before allies can intercede.  Certain creature movement speeds (wolves, some spiders, beetles, spirits in general) will also come down.

 

A lot of players are also still overwhelmed by the available druid and priest spells.  I don't want to reduce the number of available spells, but I do think having the player select from a subset of them at any given time would help prevent the action bar from looking like an icon orgy.

 

We're also looking a lot at what abilities players get early on to make sure that the game is involved and fun with 1/2/3 party members but doesn't become a nightmare with 4/5/6 when the levels are doubled.  It's difficult to balance especially if you have a bunch of casters vs. more melee-oriented characters.

 

Our economy is also being tuned a bunch.  Certain bonuses (in terms of monetary worth) are being devalued (specifically, Fine/Exceptional/Superb) and we'll be using a different value progression for bonus total on an item.  Vendor sale prices will be reduced and gems will be set to full value instead of the fractional value you get for other items.

 

Most bonuses from Attributes have been slightly increased.  Derived defensive bonuses have gone from 1.5 and 1 (for Deflection on Int) to 2.  Might gives +3% per point (from 2%) to damage and healing.  Dexterity gives +3% Action Speed (well, -3%, but you know what I mean) per point, from 2%.  Perception gives 2 Accuracy per point.  Intellect modifies AoE size by 6% per point (vs. 3%).

 

Max default damage for most weapons/attacks will likely be lowered (in part because of increased Might, but mostly to normalize out the range), min dam through DT will likely be set to 20% (like F:NV) to make it woefully inefficient but less hopeless (it should also mostly eliminate sub-1 damage Grazes).

 

So yeah, lots of playing, bugfixing, and tuning.

 

Great to hear about spell effects. If they are this intense right now, I don't know how they would have been by end game fights. Don't want another NWN2 nightmare.

 

Good to hear about recovery times, too. It's good to hear about movement speed on some creatures will be reduced. I do, however, think that even humans might need a slight decrease in movement speed. I haven't played the beta in a few weeks, so I'll have to boot up the game and do the Medreth fight and the Dragon Egg fight. But I do think that I remember people moving really fast in those fights.

 

I really hope all the druid/priest spells stay. The only thing I wish for would be better descriptions for their effects. (This goes for all classes) Having lots of spells and abilities is part of the fun (imo).

 

About weapons and attributes. I am glad to hear about the % increase attributes gain. Yet, I do not think that attacks with most weapons should be lowered. Heck, some weapons probably need an improvement to be viable to use in the game. Every time I have played, I usually try to go for the same weapon setup and ignore some of the other weapons. How has the different weapons felt to you guys while playing? Are they all useful to you? I usually use two handed weapons for my melee characters and stilettos for the rogue. I usually use the arquebus for my mage and and rogue (if long ranged). I never use bows and some of the other melee weapons.

 

Glad to read about the tuning that is being made. Keep up the good work. *salutes*

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What is confusing is that it is really hard to tell spells from each other. If you could come up with a way to color-code the spell icons by category (e.g. defensive/offensive/buffs) it would make a big difference I think.

Pretty much. Reducing the number of spells would be p sh1tty. Color coding them (blue / white for defensive), yellow for self-buff, red/orange etc for offensive - that's all that's needed here.

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This is fun, from the blurb, both on Steam and GoG:

 

"So gather your party, venture forth, and embrace adventure as you delve into a realm of wonder, nostalgia, and the excitement of classic RPGs with Obsidian’s Pillars of Eternity!"

 

:D

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Not playing the beta but I figured color-coding spell icons would be a given in a IE spiritual successor (or any RPG, really; I know it is not, but it should). Makes things a lot more intuitive.

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I'm expecting basic $25 pledge (or $35 late backer) to be the 'Hero' edition as that's what we pledged for - basic game digital download (plus those 2 backer/pre-order bonus items)

 

If you look at what's included in 'Champion' edition, it's what the higher tiers got (More like the 'Digital collector's edition' or near-as)

 

 

 

Well. Hm. As I say previously ALL Kickstarter backers of Dreamfall Chapters (me too) receive the steam Special Edition, not ordinary. It was rather fair and good gesture from Red Thread Games (developers).

So I'm expecting the same from Obsidian. But I want to hear an official answer. :)

 

/Original (from me) question posted on previous page was: "Do all backers (even 25$) will get "Champion Edition"?/

Edited by John Snow
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^exactly - the point is that some people pledged at a higher tier (giving Obsidian more money with which to develop the game) in order to get the digital almanac etc etc.

It wouldn't be fair to those people if Obs now gave all that away to the lower tiers.

 

(I don't know if RTG had those same style tiers for Dreamfall Chapters but I would call that a nice gesture, not a fair one)

 

(Don't get me wrong - I'd personally be thrilled if I got all that stuff too - I just don't think it's fair for me to get it).

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Casts Nature's Terror* :aiee: , *Casts Firebug* :fdevil: , *Casts Rot-Skulls* :skull: , *Casts Garden of Life* :luck: *Spirit-shifts to cat form* :cat:

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Well, I understand your positions, but don't want to argue. :)

 

/yeah, there can be long discussion. For example, I think that backers (all of them) mean much more for "Kickstarter Projects" than simple post-buyers. Because "no backers - no game". So, thats obvious, that backers have to have all that have post-buyers (I don't mean Kickstarter rewards, but I mean - what post-buyers can have). And its fair./

 

Anyway all developers are different (yours, CO :w00t: )

 

But the question is still exists:

 

If "Hero Edition" = "Pledge $25"

then "Champion Edition" = ???

 

And another question - Is there will be an opportunity to buy an... "Champion Edition Upgrade" in steam store? A lot of developers provide such opportunity.

Edited by John Snow
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Yes, Darren. Yes!

 

Paradox and Obsidian have also announced that this week they plan to reveal a wide array of never-before-seen game content via a live stream, hosted by Josh Sawyer, Project Director for Pillars of Eternity, alongside popular gaming personality Jesse Cox. The live stream will air Thursday, November 13 at 1pm PST (22.00 CET) on the official Paradox Interactive Twitch channel: [/size]www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive

This must mean a BB update tomorrow or Thursday! :)

 

We most likely aren't putting out a beta build this week because we had to push back our play week to this week. Jesse will probably play the same build we are playing now.

 

I see. So, I'll be awaiting the next beta build with impatience. Can't progress after a couple of savegames made in Dyrford ruins, memory leaks...

 

Yesterday some of the team was running into similar memory problems. Adam made a few changes yesterday that will hopefully combat some of it.

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[...] we had to push back our play week to this week.

Would it be possible to get some developer feedback about the play week? Would love to know more about your thinking process and what you liked and disliked!

 

 

I can only speak for myself but... I am having a blast. There are still tons of balance and polish bugs that we need to clean up, but I am having a great time running through the beginning of the game.

 

Things I think we need to work on after playing for a couple of days:

  • Feedback in UI - there are some UI screens that we need to tweak to give better feedback. One example is when you are buying camping supplies, the store UI doesn't mention when you are at max capacity. You aren't allowed to buy more, but it never informs you why that is the case. There are lots of little things like this that we will need to clean up.
  • Fatigue - I think we need to tweak the fatigue numbers a bit. I feel like it needs to take a bit longer before fatigue starts to set in. I like the system, but since resting out in the field is a resource, it forces me to run back to an inn more often than I would like.
  • Balance - Like I mentioned before we need to do more balance passes on many of the systems. This is pretty normal, though.
  • Save/Load - We are still having strange behavior from save/load. Nothing particularly game-breaking, but lots of little annoyance things.

That is my quick list. I am sure it will change or morph throughout the week.

 

Also, I am loving my chanter. I was a little cold on it when I first started her, but I am loving her invocations now.

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[...] we had to push back our play week to this week.

Would it be possible to get some developer feedback about the play week? Would love to know more about your thinking process and what you liked and disliked!

 

 

I can only speak for myself but... I am having a blast. There are still tons of balance and polish bugs that we need to clean up, but I am having a great time running through the beginning of the game.

 

Things I think we need to work on after playing for a couple of days:

  • Feedback in UI - there are some UI screens that we need to tweak to give better feedback. One example is when you are buying camping supplies, the store UI doesn't mention when you are at max capacity. You aren't allowed to buy more, but it never informs you why that is the case. There are lots of little things like this that we will need to clean up.
  • Fatigue - I think we need to tweak the fatigue numbers a bit. I feel like it needs to take a bit longer before fatigue starts to set in. I like the system, but since resting out in the field is a resource, it forces me to run back to an inn more often than I would like.
  • Balance - Like I mentioned before we need to do more balance passes on many of the systems. This is pretty normal, though.
  • Save/Load - We are still having strange behavior from save/load. Nothing particularly game-breaking, but lots of little annoyance things.

That is my quick list. I am sure it will change or morph throughout the week.

 

Also, I am loving my chanter. I was a little cold on it when I first started her, but I am loving her invocations now.

 

- I was hoping you'd mention the UI :lol: Any chance we'll see improvements to the UI layouts, shops', inventory's, HUD, or you can't say at the moment?

- Same impression about fatigue here

- Re balance, can't say much, because I haven't played enough, and save/load is at the core of the game crashing for me, so can't comment on that either.

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We've discussed extending all Recovery Times by a bit but haven't tried it yet (we will likely be trying it in the next few days).

I don't think action recovery time is worth looking into yet (for classes), the problem is the percentile amount of endurance that per-hit damage represents. Slowing Recovery speed will make creatures drop a party member in 2 hits a tiny bit slower - aka not a big difference.

 

The creatures that drop party members in 2 hits (e.g., forest/swamp lurkers) are outliers.  When people (externally and internally) give examples of the typical situations where combat moves too fast, it usually isn't the party vs. one big dude, it's the party vs. a pack of creatures that are attacking and re-attacking en masse before the player's reactive commands can be of value (or simply enough value to outpace the damage output).

 

Almost all party members wear armor, so they're all suffering penalties to recovery time.  Adding a flat recovery penalty to creature armor makes them act more at the pace of party members (a good thing, IMO).  It's also very easy because I can mass select all creature armors in the creature armor folder and set the Recovery Penalty to one value.  Tuning up global recovery time is also incredibly easy.  It's one variable in the editor.  It is almost always better to turn the big dials (like global recovery) first and make broad changes if there seem to be broad problems.

 

I put in most of these changes last night (in addition to lowering the standard cast time from 3 seconds to 2) and it felt better in the testing that I did.

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It's not just creatures, I don't think. Compared to an Infinity Engine game the incoming damage is a lot higher due to how the attack resolution system works. When multiple enemies are attacking the same character (including humanoid ones) that damage stacks up pretty quickly. 

At 5th level in the Infinity Engine games, my Fighter would have 70 HP (Core Rules, with max hp/level on). He'd have a high AC and in BG1, IWD1 or IWD2, hits wouldn't be that regular, and if they were it was usually for single-digit upwards of about maybe 18 damage. 

At the moment in v333, enemy accuracy and defenses are usually around about the same level as, or just a bit better than the party, so the incoming damage is pretty regular. I'm finding that 90% of my Priest's actions in combat are clutch healing the BB Fighter before he gets dropped. And yep that's with Defender on, and using his active every time.

 

An example is against Medreth's group. If I do not heal the Fighter twice in a row immediately after the Priest casts an opening Interdiction, or cheese the encounter somehow (Withdraw, kiting), the BB Fighter will get dropped very fast.

 

Video series vs Medreth here - most of the fights only go for 10-12 seconds of in game time, I'm finding that a bit short.

 

I only play on Hard though.

 

Here are some of the enemies that are hitting like a truck though: Adra Beetles, Elder Lions, Monks (Turning Wheel), Rogues (Deep Wounds), Forest Lurkers, Rain Blights (I think?), Many of the spiders, some of the Druid spells.

I know how easy tuning recovery time is, I have the source code decompiled. I just think that the amount of incoming damage relative to endurance values may be more critical than the action speed of class-based unit actions (fixing the monster attack speed is great though, because they do attack quickly) to improve the 'pace' of the game.

Edited by Sensuki
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Please consider removing speed penalties from armours entirely, and balance it in a different way! It's incredibly punishing, and, frankly, removes a lot of fun.

Edited by mstark
"What if a mid-life crisis is just getting halfway through the game and realising you put all your points into the wrong skill tree?"
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