Drama and games journalism, soggy leg joint edition

[Enoch]

Wow, it's gotten echo-chambery in here.  Even Bruce has gotten tired of humoring you all, which is saying something. 

 

Anyhow, Kluwe is indubitably a troll with a consistent schtick build around creative profanity, but he's not wrong about the damage this whole thing is doing to the broader perception of people who play vidyagames.  Rail about the latest outrageous thing on twitter all you want-- the message that the public gets is still "gamers heap abuse and scorn at anybody who suggests that vidyagames might be a little bit sexist." 

[Longknife]

https://archive.today/USVdn

 

Remember, these are supposed to be journalists. Journalists of all people should understand the workings and origins of such phrases....

[Namutree]

Wow, it's gotten echo-chambery in here.  Even Bruce has gotten tired of humoring you all, which is saying something. 

 

I guess not enough Obsidian members are anti-gamergate. Although more people on the other side of the fence wouldn't make a difference since as far as I've seen the best argument the anti-gamergate side has come up with is to call people names or burn down straw men.

 

 

 Rail about the latest outrageous thing on twitter all you want-- the message that the public gets is still 

It doesn't matter what the non-gaming public gets because this doesn't concern them. This isn't an attempt to get the public to support us.

[Orogun01]

Wow, it's gotten echo-chambery in here.  Even Bruce has gotten tired of humoring you all, which is saying something. 

 

Anyhow, Kluwe is indubitably a troll with a consistent schtick build around creative profanity, but he's not wrong about the damage this whole thing is doing to the broader perception of people who play vidyagames.  Rail about the latest outrageous thing on twitter all you want-- the message that the public gets is still "gamers heap abuse and scorn at anybody who suggests that vidyagames might be a little bit sexist." 

I hear you, but then again this is a gaming forum where people with tastes that go beyond the mainstream gaming congregate. What did you expect?

[Volourn]

"Wow, it's gotten echo-chambery in here.  Even Bruce has gotten tired of humoring you all, which is saying something. 

 

Anyhow, Kluwe is indubitably a troll with a consistent schtick build around creative profanity, but he's not wrong about the damage this whole thing is doing to the broader perception of people who play vidyagames.  Rail about the latest outrageous thing on twitter all you want-- the message that the public gets is still "gamers heap abuse and scorn at anybody who suggests that vidyagames might be a little bit sexist."

 

The side with the most sexists is the feminists and SJWs like Bruce not us gamers.

 

\I have no problem, and never had any with women playing, making, or writing about video games. Nice try with your bigotry. Let me guess. You are a white male manspalining how all the females who support gamers/gamergate are brainwashed? LMAO

 

Feminists are sexist pieces of crap. PERIOD.

 

Equalists > ALL

Edited October 22, 2014 by Volourn

[Oerwinde]

can someone explain "based" to me? The googles say something about some rapper but its vague.

[Hiro Protagonist]

Second result from google comes up with the urban dictionary definition. I always took it as that with doing anything you like regardless of what people say.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

can someone explain "based" to me? The googles say something about some rapper but its vague.

If I would hazard a guess: "have as the foundation for (something); use as a point from which (something) can develop."

 

I'd suppose it is because that Sommers showed support to GamerGate and is kinda mom-ish.

[Oerwinde]

I was wondering because it was on the shirt Daniel Vávra wad wearing in his video update that everyone thought was awesome too.

[Bryy]

Calling #GG tainted is a cop out Bruce. Same blanket accusations that'd cut no ice with racist or sexist remarks.

I don't think anyone can really reasonably say GG has not been tainted, whether they believe the "original intent" was an attack on women or for ethics in journalism.

 

I mean, just look at the mountain of **** that anyone in the pro-GG camp is lumped in with now.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Bryy

[Malcador]

Wow, it's gotten echo-chambery in here.  Even Bruce has gotten tired of humoring you all, which is saying something. 

 

Anyhow, Kluwe is indubitably a troll with a consistent schtick build around creative profanity, but he's not wrong about the damage this whole thing is doing to the broader perception of people who play vidyagames.  Rail about the latest outrageous thing on twitter all you want-- the message that the public gets is still "gamers heap abuse and scorn at anybody who suggests that vidyagames might be a little bit sexist."

Eh, is that really damage ? What's the worst that can come of non-gamers having an ill opinion of gamers. Industry will keep on chugging happily.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

Hypocrisy is the engine that drives the SJW. The SJW wears the cloak of duplicity, the sword of inaccuracy and the shield of sanctimony. Even when the engine is turned off, you can still hear the whining.

No ****.

 

I find it hilarious that a group of largely white straight dudes drone on and on about representation of women and minorities while doing **** all about getting more women and minorities into whatever is in question. I suppose its easier to take offense at the lack of minority people at a panel than to support products made by actual minority artists.

 

I mean if you wanted to get more women into gaming, wouldn't supporting the games made by women be a better move than spinning a narrative of how gaming is hostile to women? Wouldn't highlighting women who have succeeded in the industry be a better motivator than whipping out statistics and proceeding to vigorously wag your finger at an I'll-defined target?

 

How about at least not trying to sabotage groups like TFYC who are trying to do something about it?

 

That would be a nice start, but from their statements I would assume that they would want to take a more active role than not doing any harm.

 

*shrug*

 

 

It doesn't matter what the non-gaming public gets because this doesn't concern them. This isn't an attempt to get the public to support us.

See, I think this is very true. I'm guessing that mainstream media coverage of gamergate will wane soon as it goes on to focus on something else, and the conversation will be between gamergate supporters who were thrown to the wolves and the writers who threw them to the wolves. Hyperbole yes, but I do think most actions of the gaming press have inflamed gamergate supporters rather than calming them down or getting them to back off.

 

Accusations of misogyny or hatred directed at gamergate won't get it to back down because one of the main concerns I've seen most gamergate supporters share is that gaming media is unethical and that they use the guise of social justice to shield themselves from accusations of being unethical. So gaming press calling them misogynistic while dismissing their ethical concerns is going to piss them off and reinforce the idea that gaming press does not want to face accusations of unethical behavior, which is what happened. I believe that if dialogue does not happen, which is looking less likely, this flame war will just keep going and going.

 

A big reason while I pretty much walked away from gamergate is that I no longer believe the gaming press is capable of abiding a standard of ethics and is piss poor anyways. When their gamergate articles became a circle jerk of quoting each other's blog posts and the most "proof" they can muster in support of their argument are tweets from the likes of "DuckScholar" and entries in ED, I seriously question their standards as journalists. I've been told by quite a few friends, real life and from internet forums, that gamergate was a waste of time because videogame journalism is crap and no amount of polishing will make it anything but a turd. At this point, I'm convinced that they're right and have no idea why I keep coming back and haven't just embraced the apathy.

 

I wish this wasn't the case. I honestly hoped that gamergate would lead to more ethical gaming journalism and that discussions of representation in video games could have have occurred without finger-pointing and petty attacks. I want it so that whoever wants to play or make videogames is able to do so and is judged solely by their ability to play or make them. I want a wide market, where everything from Hatred to Dear Esther(I think both of these games are dumb personally) has a place and artists aren't shamed for their work because someone disagrees with it.

 

I'm a 22 year-old man who has played video games since childhood and ****ing loves them. I find it sad that I have no credible news source for a hobby I spend a significant amount of my time and energy on, and that the news sources that exist think I'm part of an angry mob of white males trying to oppress women and minorities.

 

Sorry for the wall o' text, I'm going to play video games and get drunk.

[Malcador]

This also makes me believe that non-CS people should not be allowed in the industry.

[Shallow]

 

Calling #GG tainted is a cop out Bruce. Same blanket accusations that'd cut no ice with racist or sexist remarks.

I don't think anyone can really reasonably say GG has not been tainted, whether they believe the "original intent" was an attack on women or for ethics in journalism.

 

I mean, just look at the mountain of **** that anyone in the pro-GG camp is lumped in with now.

 

By this logic humanity is tainted and we should all just kill ourselves, people aren't responsible for the actions of other people, regardless of whether said other people share your views, your gender, or your race.

[pmp10]

 

Rail about the latest outrageous thing on twitter all you want-- the message that the public gets is still

It doesn't matter what the non-gaming public gets because this doesn't concern them. This isn't an attempt to get the public to support us.

 

It matters a great deal for the business side of gaming as investing is driven by public perception.

Both sides poisoning the well does us no favors.

[Bryy]

 

 

Calling #GG tainted is a cop out Bruce. Same blanket accusations that'd cut no ice with racist or sexist remarks.

I don't think anyone can really reasonably say GG has not been tainted, whether they believe the "original intent" was an attack on women or for ethics in journalism.

 

I mean, just look at the mountain of **** that anyone in the pro-GG camp is lumped in with now.

 

By this logic humanity is tainted and we should all just kill ourselves

... wow, so that over-reaction happened.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Bryy

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Couple of devs talk about gg and internet harassment

http://www.ibtimes.com/developers-gamergate-misogyny-isnt-gaming-problem-its-internet-problem-1707154

 

Linked in the above, GabeN gets a death threat

http://www.ibtimes.com/steam-game-pulled-after-developer-tweeted-death-threats-valves-gabe-newell-1708906

[kirottu]

Another excellent article by Cathy Young:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/10/21/the_gender_games_part_2_videogames_meet_feminism_124375.html

 

“I do think such issues as sexism exist in gaming,” Harris, who considers herself a feminist of the pro-equality kind, told me in our email exchange. “I do think issues such as sexism exist in gaming, as they do in most other areas of life. Unfortunately, much of the discussion is framed in a very black and white way, i.e. ‘this is sexist, and if you don’t agree you are a sexist.’ This type of discussion is very unproductive and creates polarisation between groups that can actually have middle ground on the issue. I feel that with more reasoned, less hysterical discussion, we could contribute to making games more progressive where they need to be.”

[Meshugger]

Wow, it's gotten echo-chambery in here.  Even Bruce has gotten tired of humoring you all, which is saying something. 

 

Anyhow, Kluwe is indubitably a troll with a consistent schtick build around creative profanity, but he's not wrong about the damage this whole thing is doing to the broader perception of people who play vidyagames.  Rail about the latest outrageous thing on twitter all you want-- the message that the public gets is still "gamers heap abuse and scorn at anybody who suggests that vidyagames might be a little bit sexist." 

 

That's what makes this so fun to watch. 10 years ago it was the moral crusaders of our society that suggested that videogames were perhaps a bit violent. It's the same old type of authoritarians coming out of the closet to teach people what is good for themselves, all under the disguise of working for a better society, more civil society. And the targeted people will always push back, creating wonderful dramas of almost shakespearian magnitudes.

[Meshugger]

 

Calling #GG tainted is a cop out Bruce. Same blanket accusations that'd cut no ice with racist or sexist remarks.

I don't think anyone can really reasonably say GG has not been tainted, whether they believe the "original intent" was an attack on women or for ethics in journalism.

 

I mean, just look at the mountain of **** that anyone in the pro-GG camp is lumped in with now.

 

 

Nah, it's still growing. Save that comment for when it has achieved critical mass. Then we can see if the negatives outweight the positives.

[Longknife]

 

 

 

Calling #GG tainted is a cop out Bruce. Same blanket accusations that'd cut no ice with racist or sexist remarks.

I don't think anyone can really reasonably say GG has not been tainted, whether they believe the "original intent" was an attack on women or for ethics in journalism.

 

I mean, just look at the mountain of **** that anyone in the pro-GG camp is lumped in with now.

 

By this logic humanity is tainted and we should all just kill ourselves

... wow, so that over-reaction happened.

 

 

 

No he's absolutely right. By that logic humanity is tainted and therefore we should give up, AKA kill ourselves. It's a flawless analogy.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Longknife

[TrashMan]

 

Calling #GG tainted is a cop out Bruce. Same blanket accusations that'd cut no ice with racist or sexist remarks.

I don't think anyone can really reasonably say GG has not been tainted, whether they believe the "original intent" was an attack on women or for ethics in journalism.

 

I mean, just look at the mountain of **** that anyone in the pro-GG camp is lumped in with now.

 

 

 

Weather is has been tainted or not is irrelevant. Waht is relevant is weather the taint is real or imagined.

 

It's like accusing someone of rape/murder/pedophilia and having his case dragged across newspapers. He might be proclaimed innocent unanimously by the joury, but his name will be "tainted" by the mere association.

What do you do? Do you bow your head in shame? Do you apologize for the crimes you didn't commit? Do you change your name, practically validating the taint?

 

GG isn't tainted.

the name has gotten a bad rep because of lies and slander.

the rational course of action is to clear your name, not hide and accept accusations.

[TrashMan]

I mean if you wanted to get more women into gaming, wouldn't supporting the games made by women be a better move than spinning a narrative of how gaming is hostile to women? Wouldn't highlighting women who have succeeded in the industry be a better motivator than whipping out statistics and proceeding to vigorously wag your finger at an ill-defined target?

 

 

No, it wouldn't.

 

Because social engineering is not my job and frankly I do not care for it.

there is no such thing as "the proper number of X in Y". Who defines what is proper?

 

If women and minorites want to work into gaming, then they will. Over time. It's a natural process. And there are and have been women and minorities working in the industry for decades so it's a moot point.

That doesn't mean that the trend MUST reach a certain quota. Game development could be the freest and nicest enviorment for a woman in the world, and still never reach a 50/50 male to female ratio. Because maybe, they just don't have as much attraction towards it.

So no, there is no NEED.

 

Like there is no need to go around and praise a woman or a minority member just for working in the industry. Or supporting games made by women just because they are made by women.

 

There is no special treatment for anyone - that is the basis of equality.

I don't care who makes a game, he doesn't get any special points of support from me on ANY merit other then if I like the game.

He/she can be a black hispanic transsexual midget jew gay/lesbian paraplegic for all I care.

If the game sucks I'm not supporting it.

[Longknife]

More connections between Polygon and a game they 10/10'ed found: http://imgur.com/d18RHUM

 

Another day, another sponsor ditching these idiots (we're literally at a sponsor a day now): http://theralphretort.com/zoom-out-olympus-leaves-gawker/

 

Hilarious article title: http://adland.tv/adnews/adobe-stands-against-bullying-are-bullied-twitter-it/455052050

 

And in other news apparently Gawker is now mass-deleting previous Twitter posts.


GG

[Longknife]

Oh and:

 

 

Grade-A Hypocrisy you could cut with a ****ing knife: http://i.imgur.com/Vqcx5bx.png