Drama in indy gaming and games journalism

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

I had a few minutes to waste.

 

That said, this thread has opened my eyes to just how many neckbearded man-children inhabit this very forum. I'm frankly shocked. I thought more of us were fully-socialized adults, more or less.

 

I also think that if you're more upset about indie games not getting the exposure you think they deserve than lives and careers being if not ruined at least severely harmed by this stuff, you are one of those neckbearded man-children.

 

 

C'mon, dude, that was totally uncalled for.

 

 

Go to bed Leigh Alexander, you're drunk.

 

I hate to admit it, but I lol'd. 

[Malcador]

Funny enough I do feel better about myself but its probably not for the reasons you think

 

I feel better about myself because I stand by my convictions and principles and say what I think is the right thing to say, I am not influenced by others or say things because I know the majority of people will like it because it suits a certain narrative

Nope that was pretty much what I was getting at. And convictions - unless as you pointed out earlier they might get you into trouble at work, in which case well they can take a back seat.

[BruceVC]

 

Oh, good. That means our side is winning. Nyah nyah.

Ah, GG will lose out in the end, but it's nice to see things torn up.

 

Wu's hard now, by the way - http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/brianna-wu-gamergate

 

 

That's the one thing we do agree on. GG will lose out in the end and its not because the other side is necessarily intellectually or morally superior. Its because GG is tainted and as I have said several times no serious players in the gaming industry will stand by it so you won't see any changes they aspire to being implemented. So it should just run out of Steam when people get bored?

[BruceVC]

 

Funny enough I do feel better about myself but its probably not for the reasons you think

 

I feel better about myself because I stand by my convictions and principles and say what I think is the right thing to say, I am not influenced by others or say things because I know the majority of people will like it because it suits a certain narrative

Nope that was pretty much what I was getting at. And convictions - unless as you pointed out earlier they might get you into trouble at work, in which case well they can take a back seat.

 

 

You cheeky Malc, but that story about work is a completely different example

[Malcador]

C'mon, dude, that was totally uncalled for.

No it was called for, I forgot to shave this morning so have really bad neck-stubble.

[PrimeJunta]

I see. All it took was someone to disagree with you to label them as a misogynist man-child who supports harassment.

 

Because I care about those things, I automatically care less about harassment? I can't count the amount of times I've reported harassment and gotten twitter accounts banned for it, or the amount of times I've denounced the harassment against these people even only in the threads about it on this forum. Journalist ethics and harassment are two completely seperate things and condemning one does not equal supporting to other. But you know this, all you're here for is to pretend your superior. Too bad you can't claim superiority unless you bloody well possess it.

 

Journalistic ethics and harassment may usually be two completely separate things. In this context, however, they're not. Like it or not, you're throwing your lot in with the harassers, and soiling both yourself and the cause of ethics in journalism in the process.

 

If you're not a neckbearded manchild yourself, then you're, as Lenin dubbed Western milquetoast lefties supporting, or at least not opposing, the Bolshevik revolution, a "useful idiot."

Edited October 16, 2014 by PrimeJunta

[Meshugger]

 

Oh, good. That means our side is winning. Nyah nyah.

Ah, GG will lose out in the end, but it's nice to see things torn up.

 

Wu's hard now, by the way - http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/brianna-wu-gamergate

 

 

I like how not a single connection to gamergate was presented. Also, her friend Samantha Allen is a special case: https://archive.today/iITfR

 

 

I’m a misandrist. that means i hate men. i’m not a cute misandrist. i don’t have a fridge magnet that says, “boys are stupid, throw rocks at them.” my loathing cannot be contained by a fridge magnet.

i am not an equality feminist.

 

I don’t believe that an asymmetrical world will be cured by polite obsequence to male-dominated systems. i am not a liberal humanist. i don’t believe that i need to stand up for men when they’ve been standing on top of everyone else.

 

Keep fighting the good fight!

[Orogun01]

 

There are the matters of Game Journalist doxxing, harassing, and deliberately targeting developers as well. 

But there is a fundamental difference between feminists and other political groups, these feminist in particular feel the need to evangelize. Other kind of reviewers hold back on the political stuff, leaving just a comment instead of making it the center of their review.

 

The status quo is not apolitical, nor is "not evangelizing."

 

I.e., that was the eternal cry of the hegemonic group having hegemony challenged. Mm, the smell of Molotov ****tails in the morning...

 

"Hegemony"

 

Says, the guy defending the corporate sock-puppets.

[PrimeJunta]

Where did I do that?

[Blarghagh]

 

I see. All it took was someone to disagree with you to label them as a misogynist man-child who supports harassment.

 

Because I care about those things, I automatically care less about harassment? I can't count the amount of times I've reported harassment and gotten twitter accounts banned for it, or the amount of times I've denounced the harassment against these people even only in the threads about it on this forum. Journalist ethics and harassment are two completely seperate things and condemning one does not equal supporting to other. But you know this, all you're here for is to pretend your superior. Too bad you can't claim superiority unless you bloody well possess it.

 

Journalistic ethics and harassment may usually be two completely separate things. In this context, however, they're not. Like it or not, you're throwing your lot in with the harassers, and soiling both yourself and the cause of ethics in journalism in the process.

 

If you're not a neckbearded manchild yourself, then you're, as Lenin dubbed Western milquetoast lefties supporting, or at least not opposing, the Bolshevik revolution, a "useful idiot."

 

 

[Meshugger]

 

I see. All it took was someone to disagree with you to label them as a misogynist man-child who supports harassment.

 

Because I care about those things, I automatically care less about harassment? I can't count the amount of times I've reported harassment and gotten twitter accounts banned for it, or the amount of times I've denounced the harassment against these people even only in the threads about it on this forum. Journalist ethics and harassment are two completely seperate things and condemning one does not equal supporting to other. But you know this, all you're here for is to pretend your superior. Too bad you can't claim superiority unless you bloody well possess it.

 

Journalistic ethics and harassment may usually be two completely separate things. In this context, however, they're not. Like it or not, you're throwing your lot in with the harassers, and soiling both yourself and the cause of ethics in journalism in the process.

 

If you're not a neckbearded manchild yourself, then you're, as Lenin dubbed Western milquetoast lefties supporting, or at least not opposing, the Bolshevik revolution, a "useful idiot."

 

 

Leigh, pls. You're triggering our moderator. 

Edited October 16, 2014 by Meshugger

[Malcador]

PE sure brought in some odd people.

[Orogun01]

Where did I do that?

So you're not defending the same game journalists that are merely spokespersons for publishers? Or are you blissfully oblivious to that fact?

[Volourn]

"Enoch I have to say  its been really refreshing and interesting getting your perspective on this whole matter, I'm really glad you decided to participate in this discussion"

 

That's ebcause he basically agrees with you that gamers are just white male rapist sexist pigs.

 

 

"Folks like Quinn, Wu, Leigh Alexander, and others indubitably experienced #1 first-hand on several occassions."

 

Leigh Alexander has attacked women, threatened women, insulted women, trashed women, made fun of women, harassed women. She is oen of the biggest women haters out there. And, that is your modern feminist idol. LMAO

 

 

"You sick and tired yet the sexism, harassment and threats continue from certain people"

 

Yeah, have you had a talk with Leigh Alexander abotut hat yet? Tell her to knock it off.

 

 

"So we have to continue to point out this unacceptable social behaviour"

 

Then why do feminists still partake in such 'socially unaceeptable behaviour' and brag about it?

 

 

"I'm not sure why you are suggesting that? Who said all gamers on GG are the same or are responsible for the extremist element ?"
 

Feminists and SJWs. Gamers are just white male sexist racist pigs. Allt hsoe non white male sexist racist pigs are all fakes.

 

 

 

"But  we are united on being opposed to Internet misogyny and sexism and from  my side that's never going to change"

 

No, your side is NOT 'uniformly' against misogny and sexism. Please, don't lie.

 

 

 

This idea that gamers don't want women gaming is plain stupid that has no basis in fact. It's asanine.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Volourn

[Fighter]

I had a few minutes to waste.

 

That said, this thread has opened my eyes to just how many neckbearded man-children inhabit this very forum. I'm frankly shocked. I thought more of us were fully-socialized adults, more or less.

 

I also think that if you're more upset about indie games not getting the exposure you think they deserve than lives and careers being if not ruined at least severely harmed by this stuff, you are one of those neckbearded man-children.

 

 

Such lack of self awareness.

[PrimeJunta]

@Orogun01 Priorities, man. 

 

In this situation I have to take a choice: throw my lot in with the MRA's, MGTOW's, misogynists, and other assorted manboons, or call for a higher standard of ethics in journalism. One or the other. It is politically impossible to do both. Try, like TrueNeutral here, and you'll fall between the chairs, or be used as a fig leaf. I choose not to throw my lot in the with the manboons.

 

Once we've got them safely rounded up in a ghetto where they can wallow in their victimhood without inconveniencing the rest of us, then we can talk about journalistic ethics. If capitalism hasn't collapsed by then and made the whole discussion moot anyway.

[Meshugger]

 

 

MRA's, MGTOW's, misogynists, and other assorted manboons

 

Point them out please.

[PrimeJunta]

@Meshugger Unable to see them, huh? Hmm, I wonder what could possibly be the reason for that…?

[Malcador]

MGTOW ? I am envisioning some sort of automatic AT weapon. Though how the wire guidance works in that case, I do not know

[JadedWolf]

If you're not a neckbearded manchild yourself, then you're, as Lenin dubbed Western milquetoast lefties supporting, or at least not opposing, the Bolshevik revolution, a "useful idiot."

 

In this situation I have to take a choice: throw my lot in with the MRA's, MGTOW's, misogynists, and other assorted manboons, or call for a higher standard of ethics in journalism. One or the other. It is politically impossible to do both. Try, like TrueNeutral here, and you'll fall between the chairs, or be used as a fig leaf. I choose not to throw my lot in the with the manboons.

 

Once we've got them safely rounded up in a ghetto where they can wallow in their victimhood without inconveniencing the rest of us, then we can talk about journalistic ethics. If capitalism hasn't collapsed by then and made the whole discussion moot anyway.

 

Wow, this place got weird while I wasn't watching.

[Fighter]

@Meshugger Unable to see them, huh? Hmm, I wonder what could possibly be the reason for that…?

 

He didn't check his privilege this morning?

[Blarghagh]

Leigh, pls. You're triggering our moderator. 

 

I don't moderate Way Off Topic, otherwise I wouldn't participate in this debate because I would recuse myself.

 

@Orogun01 Priorities, man. 

 

In this situation I have to take a choice: throw my lot in with the MRA's, MGTOW's, misogynists, and other assorted manboons, or call for a higher standard of ethics in journalism. One or the other. It is politically impossible to do both. Try, like TrueNeutral here, and you'll fall between the chairs, or be used as a fig leaf. I choose not to throw my lot in the with the manboons.

 

Once we've got them safely rounded up in a ghetto where they can wallow in their victimhood without inconveniencing the rest of us, then we can talk about journalistic ethics. If capitalism hasn't collapsed by then and made the whole discussion moot anyway.

 

Here's the thing, though I originally supported #GamerGate, I stopped doing so over the harassment once I determined the trolls actually identified as #GamerGate supporters, have denounced trolls and consistently fought them and very clearly distanced my problems with journalistic ethics from them and their ridiculous witch hunts. I'm not sure where I'm throwing in my lot with them. Because I care about an issue that a jerk cares about? Well, gee, a lot of jerks care about eating. I better stop doing that too.

 

Either way, the way I see it: we can wait forever for online trolls to go away and never get anything done, or we can talk about actual issues while ignoring them. They're never going away, so your solution to them isn't so much a solution as it is an unethical and cowardly capitulation to them. A.k.a. giving them exactly what they want.

 

So yes, use unwarranted personal attacks to prove your superiority all you want. It's not going to work. By the way, for someone who doesn't care, you surely seem to. Think about all the talking about the problems of capitalism you could have done in the meanwhile.

[Orogun01]

@Orogun01 Priorities, man. 

 

In this situation I have to take a choice: throw my lot in with the MRA's, MGTOW's, misogynists, and other assorted manboons, or call for a higher standard of ethics in journalism. One or the other. It is politically impossible to do both. Try, like TrueNeutral here, and you'll fall between the chairs, or be used as a fig leaf. I choose not to throw my lot in the with the manboons.

 

Once we've got them safely rounded up in a ghetto where they can wallow in their victimhood without inconveniencing the rest of us, then we can talk about journalistic ethics. If capitalism hasn't collapsed by then and made the whole discussion moot anyway.

Hard to argue when you start rambling hyperbole, reminds me of playing chess with pigeons.

[BruceVC]

 

If you're not a neckbearded manchild yourself, then you're, as Lenin dubbed Western milquetoast lefties supporting, or at least not opposing, the Bolshevik revolution, a "useful idiot."

 

In this situation I have to take a choice: throw my lot in with the MRA's, MGTOW's, misogynists, and other assorted manboons, or call for a higher standard of ethics in journalism. One or the other. It is politically impossible to do both. Try, like TrueNeutral here, and you'll fall between the chairs, or be used as a fig leaf. I choose not to throw my lot in the with the manboons.

 

Once we've got them safely rounded up in a ghetto where they can wallow in their victimhood without inconveniencing the rest of us, then we can talk about journalistic ethics. If capitalism hasn't collapsed by then and made the whole discussion moot anyway.

 

Wow, this place got weird while I wasn't watching.

 

 

Nah this thread has always been weird

[ShadySands]

 

 

If you're not a neckbearded manchild yourself, then you're, as Lenin dubbed Western milquetoast lefties supporting, or at least not opposing, the Bolshevik revolution, a "useful idiot."

 

In this situation I have to take a choice: throw my lot in with the MRA's, MGTOW's, misogynists, and other assorted manboons, or call for a higher standard of ethics in journalism. One or the other. It is politically impossible to do both. Try, like TrueNeutral here, and you'll fall between the chairs, or be used as a fig leaf. I choose not to throw my lot in the with the manboons.

 

Once we've got them safely rounded up in a ghetto where they can wallow in their victimhood without inconveniencing the rest of us, then we can talk about journalistic ethics. If capitalism hasn't collapsed by then and made the whole discussion moot anyway.

 

Wow, this place got weird while I wasn't watching.

 

 

Nah this thread has always been weird

 

 

I can finally agree with Bruce on something in this thread